Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

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Thank you Saga and NYC!

 

NYC!!!!!!!  That is amazing that you can do that?!  I know you feel like, well, you-know-what, but I couldn't even do what you are doing with the movie/book scene--for two years!

 

My "new normal" has taken so long to adjust to, but there was a time when showering (when I could) was the greatest accomplishment of my day, and I had to learn that instead of beating myself about a shower being a major accomplishment, to see it for what it was:  a major accomplishment, plain and simple.

 

I am dreading going back to my existence from 2010-2012, since I have just begun my taper, of course.

 

But, wow, NYC, I am so hopeful for you--so so so hopeful!  The reading alone, in terms of distraction is phenomenal. 

 

Thanks guys! 

[[ch...]]

Ditto on the reading problem.  How do people cope with reading on the computer?  I find that very difficult, sometimes almost impossible, partly because I am so dizzy and focusing my eyes on one spot is very hard.  There is so much useful, heartfelt writing on BB and I want to soak it in.  Making the font larger helps some....

 

I started taking a small dose of Magnesium Taurate, and also using the transdermal magnesium oil, to see if that helps with sleep.  I did get 3 or 4 hours sleep last night, which is such a saving thing, but at the same time, a drop in the bucket.  I'm grateful and pissed at the same time.

 

I've tried Benadryl, etc., but unfortunately I have weird reaction to these, get very wired, not sleepy.  In the past, tart cherries have helped me sleep, and I've tried many other "natural" remedies, some of which have helped at times.

 

yes, how do people cope and try to do some things for themselves?  I listen to a lot of radio, but then that's a problem too, so much bad news.  I was watching funny old TV shows on utube, like one with a young Frank Zappa and Steve Allen, but now I try not to use the computer at night because I think it interferes with sleep.

 

I've gotten so agoraphobic, but then at the same time, claustrophobic, like,  I need to get out of here, but I'm afraid to go out.  Plus going out means getting ready to go out, which can take forever, even if it just means putting on my shoes.

 

Thank you, Saga, and everyone here, it helps so much to be with people who are going through it and not be completely alone with this.

 

 

 

 

 

[[Om...]]

Praying for all of you guys and gals! As I posted 5 days ago or so, I did a small updose and changed my taper method a bit. Todays my 4th day of holding and I feel like I can start cutting again tomorrow. Im so ready to be off this poison. Thank you all for keeping this page a positive place to be. 

[[Sa...]]

Omni I'm glad it worked out for you and you're feeling better! I can get very negative on the blog, but it simply serves to vent my frustration with this whole process. The bottom line is generally positive from me. Especially here, on the support threads.

 

June I understand dreading going back to the previous place...it may not be as bad...really...if it is, you've been there before and survived and you'll do it again. I see much of the same positive attitude from you , and trust me, it really makes a difference in how you frame expectations. Flipping the negatives into positives no matter how challenging is the best way to cope.

 

Charlotte all of this is a conundrum. It simply takes a lot of energy to figure it all out, what you can and can't do easily. Some days are better than others, obviously. I've found every day to be a little different. I went out for dinner last night and had a terrible time with sound and chaos. I'd been ok the last several outings, not good mind you, but ok.

 

I challenge the agoraphobia to a degree. I'm doing some walking, not every day, and sometimes it's better than others. I can only use the iPad with the brightness way down and wearing glasses. Sometimes I need to increase the font as well.

 

I'm glad you were able to get some sleep although I know it's not nearly enough. It's just a different dance each day, and I've found while it's very frustrating, accepting this is necessary. Fighting it doesn't really work and it just leads to more frustration...give yourself a pat on the back for each small victory and try flipping the thoughts from negative to positive.

 

Saga

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Ditto on the reading problem.  How do people cope with reading on the computer? 

 

I started taking a small dose of Magnesium Taurate,

 

yes, how do people cope and try to do some things for themselves?  I listen to a lot of radio, but then that's a problem too, so much bad news.  I was watching funny old TV shows on utube, like one with a young Frank Zappa and Steve Allen, but now I try not to use the computer at night because I think it interferes with sleep.

 

I've gotten so agoraphobic, but then at the same time, claustrophobic, like,  I need to get out of here, but I'm afraid to go out.  Plus going out means getting ready to go out, which can take forever, even if it just means putting on my shoes.

 

I'm with you on the agoraphobia, esp here in NYC where there are too many people and too much noise and constant assault. I force myself out and then shudder.

 

The vision thing bugs me too... alternatively, I can't listen to radio, it's too much for me. It's like the different senses are shut down. And going to the movies at a theater - no interest any more. Anhedonia enveloping me. Some of this is due to time passing by and me not involved in the stream of life, some of it was, I believe made worse by getting into the ativan the past few months.

 

Melatonin for sleep ... but among my many worries is, is the melatonin making me feel worse too, depression-wise? I wonder if that magnesium might work for me too.

 

Spinning my wheels a bit. Distracting myself typing here. Wish I had a real life again, with work, a family, community, some sense of purpose. That's all beyond ativan. And right now I'm sure these other new meds, the prozac and lamictal, are making me feel sick to my stomach and dizzy - I've been on the 0.75 mg ativan for 25 days now and don't think or believe the drop from 1 - 0.75 could still be affecting me ... or? I guess anything is possible. I don't want to go to a hospital to get all medicated afresh. I would like to drop it all (somehow) and clean out the system. I guess I need to realllllly practice some patience and be surrounded by more positive thinking than I can muster.

 

 

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NYC -- you seem to be dealing with so much, and when I read your message, I thought how hard we can be on ourselves.  Like needing to have a "real life", which is so not the life we are currently having.  Yet we are where we are because of real things, and many people are in the same boat.

 

So I might know a little of what you mean.  I am trying to be gentle with myself, and not compare my life with some idea or ideal of what a life is supposed to be.  And to try to be in this life, as it is.  Not so easy if you're not sleeping, are lonely, can't do much of anything, but I've been told this:  To look around the sad thoughts and see if I can find the moments of peace that are there underneath....it's easier for me to think this with a little bit of sleep, and harder to do. 

 

BTW, I found this site about magnesium helpful:

http://fixyourgut.com/magnesium-most-overlooked-mineral-for-improving-health-2/

 

 

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That is so incredibly difficult Charlotte, but exactly the mind-frame I have tried to shift to (some days better than others).

 

It has taken a long time to feel that paradigm shift.  To not compare my life, abilities, etc. with those around me.  I have a friend who has had similar trials as ours and calls those "normal" people around us, "The Norms".  It makes me laugh.

 

But, I don't believe we (those of us here) are abnormal; I just think it is a funny way of seeing the situation.

 

Yes, it has taken me years (unfortunately) to let go of the life I had and to accept this state, positition, situation, call it what you will.

 

And, you know, sometimes the Norms I have to interact with on a daily basis aren't that deep..  I mean, if this experience has taught me one thing:  it is deeeeeeep compassion for others' suffering--whatever the suffering may be--and a perspective on Real problems.  And the one that has been the hardest:  learning to congratulate myself on things like brushing my teeth or showering during the darkest days a couple years ago.

 

I don't know about all of you, but i can be merciless with myself when it comes to expectations of "normal" and all the self-talk:  What's wrong with me?  Why did this happen to me?  Where did I go?

 

I think this may be a normal (haha-stupid pun) part of our process.  And for me it is still very much in process.  Do I wish this never happened--hell yes.  Do I wish I could have the silly problems of the Norms--hell yes.

Our circumstances are not US.  We endure and are richer for it.  As twisted as that seems--I think we "know" more than most Norms;  for me, I am able to let go of the ego-dramas around me more now....I have also had an amazing healer in my life who has helped with this.

 

And for all those of you who are really deep down in IT, there is no way I could write the above and feel it from 2010-2012, so don't use this silliness I've written as one more thing that you are not doing.

 

The better I have gotten, the more easily this shift has taken place, and I still have the bad days too.

 

I was just crying (for example) all day Saturday, in bed, wondering why this had happened to me, feeling broken, etc.

 

Lot of pain this mess is.  And here we are.  Together.  This is our new normal, I suppose.  But it will get better and better for all of us.  Except maybe for me, who has just begun to taper   I appreciate you reminding me, Cahrlotte, that it may not be that bad.  Hope hope hope you are right.

 

Otherwise I'll have to delete that self-righteous piffle at the top here.

 

 

 

 

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Yes, Charlotte and June. The "new normal" can be really hard to accept. It's amazing to me that even here in this online world people can see (in my writing) the tendency to be harsh on myself. "Like needing to have a "real life", which is so not the life we are currently having.  Yet we are where we are because of real things, and many people are in the same boat." I so appreciate that. I find it so hard not to compare myself to the "normals" around me - and the "wishing things were different" mind just adds to suffering.

 

Not to mention the people around me who say things like "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps! Just get a job! Exercise! You need to get a life!"

 

Would that it were easier to change one's thinking. Maybe this all will serve to do that.

 

I used to do a lot of meditation (which I find nearly impossible right now) and it was all about acceptance of what was currently real. And I delivered lots of compassion to the people I was working with in hospitals and elsewhere - more to them than to myself. A meditation teacher wrote me recently that a practice I might use now, when all else has failed, might be to hold myself as if I'm holding a little baby - to have that vision or impression. It's clearly not just about recovering from ativan use for me - it's about accepting that my life has really changed in the past year (maybe it was long coming) and coming to terms with who I am now, and perhaps making little steps towards creating a new person. The old person - who I long for, sometimes - wasn't complete either. (And in that longing: suffering). 

---

 

Ugh. Wrote the above last night. This morning after nearly sleepless night and racing thoughts I feel like shit. I don't know what to do.

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Dropped ativan slightly recently (from 0.75 to about 0.68). Also increased prozac but took a little less today because ... for two nights I've had the most extreme panic attacks and felt wide awake before going to bed.

 

With small drops, I imagine anything is possible but have others felt these extreme, life-draining panic attacks that fill me with fear? Part of me wonders if it's the increased prozac messing me up. Too much happening at once. Scared out of my mind sometimes that I've lost it. I have a lot going on.

 

How do you deal with the panic? How do you ride it out? How do you not believe it?

 

 

 

[[ch...]]

NYC -- I can feel how much you are suffering right now.  I know what you mean about not being able to meditate.  I've been doing various body scan/relaxation cd's instead.  I have to work at it every day, but sometimes it really helps for a while.  Other days, it just seems utterly hopeless.

 

I hesitate to say anything about prozac, because what do I know and I don't want to add to your confusion, so please ignore this....But....often now people start at a low dose of 5 mg and then see if they need to go up.  I don't know if you started at 20 mg or not, but just wondering if that could be adding to your panic and sleeplessness.  Might your doctor be open to discussing this?

 

It sounds like you have done a lot in your life, and will do so again, but for now things are very rough.  I really like the image of holding the baby. 

 

Yes, fear so strong it feels impossible to survive.  Sometimes if I can get myself to move and do anything it helps, especially going outside, or writing, or if I am courageous, calling a friend. 

[[Ki...]]

NYC - I'm sorry you are still struggling...for a few days it sounded like you were in a better place. I'm curious as to why you decided to reduce your Ativan at the same time as raising your Prozac? My opinion is that you are setting yourself up for failure. By changing both medications at the same time how will you know if the drop was too big? Also, you dropped 9.3% which is not a tiny amount. That's the top end of the recommended range.

 

I'm not trying to be unsupportive, I just want you to keep your suffering to a minimum and be able to get off A safely.  Also, like benzo's, SSRI's shouldn't be raised and lowered erratically. You simply can't do that and expect stability as a result. Stabilization and a slow withdrawal is key to keeping you functional and your your symptoms manageable.

 

Make sense? 

 

 

[[Gr...]]

NYC4 I agree with what Kiddo says and I mentioned it before too. Stop cutting. Wait until you're stable. You're clearly not. These people know what they're talking about it. Stay on the same dose for some weeks and maybe more. See if that helps. I'm thinking it will.

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Green Irish and Kiddo - yes thank you. I do feel I'm setting myself up. Feeling basically day-long panic lately and like I'm losing my mind. Too many things happening at once. I know I shouldn't go up and down with the SSRI but I'm thinking 30 mg prozac might be too much for me. (The doc recommended I go up, about a week ago.) I'd been at .75 Ativan for a few weeks so I thought I should continue down. I don't even know if the amount I reduced IS at .68 - it's estimated (I cut a .125 mg piece in half).

 

So I should probably return to or stay at 0.75 (which is more or less since I have dry pills, not liquid). I know this is not a game as I feel my life slipping away. Other factors are at play here too. The meds but one of them. Struggling a lot on my own to keep it together.

[[Sa...]]

NYC, I'm sorry, I don't mean to pile on either, but I couldn't agree more with stopping the madness. I know I don't really know you, but I honestly felt you needed to hold since you've had so many med changes going from the start.

 

These meds are very very potent, and you're making too many changes in my opinion. No one wants you to set yourself up for failure. I understand wanting to drop the amount of Ativan, but when you're in a delicate place the almost  10% drop really is huge by itself. Upping the Prozac is further complicating the equation. Those drugs are notorious for upping anxiety as you go up.

 

No one can tell you what to do, just give advice based on our own experiences. I would simply stop making changes to any of the meds right now and try to stabilize yourself. I understand there are a lot of factors in play, but please give yourself the best possible chance before playing around with the doses. Is there really any harm in holding?

 

Saga

[[de...]]

Thank you Saga & Laser.....

You're replies are much appreciated. Saga, I am as you say, reading and learning. I have until finding this site, done as much homework as I can...but finding people who know exactly where I am, is going to be such a help!

I'm know once I start the tapering, I'm going to using this site a hell if a lot!

Thanks again

[[pe...]]

So after 3 weeks on the suspension which I have been experiencing suicidal depression and a host of other issues- my pysch refused to write me another prescription for the liquid. Probably due to his unwillingness to prescribe me a drug that is unlicensed in the liquid form in the UK.

 

So as of tomorrow after 3 turbulent weeks to get and stay on the suspension I'm going to have to resort to the tablets. I am so deflated and confused by this whole thing - trying to get off this drug is hard enough without any support from the medical profession who put me on it. Like many here I'm astounded how I  haven't gone completely cuckoo, but within us all there seems to be a great desire to beat this.

 

 

[[Sa...]]

Delboy No problem at all, boy do I wish I'd found this forum before I started my uninformed taper...I'm happy you've been able to take it all in before you start your taper. Definitely an advantage in so many ways...having an entire forum of people going through the same experience is a huge benefit...

 

Pete I'm sorry you're having to give up the liquid...I know you haven't felt well on it from the start...maybe going back to the pill form isn't a bad move. You could always make your own liquid from the pills. A Few pages back Omni made a great post about how he makes his liquid.

 

You're right about a great desire to beat this. I believe that's the most important tool we have, the absolute desire and commitment to free ourselves from these meds. I'm sorry about the medical support, I found this myself, and sadly it's all too common...you can do it anyway, don't let that discourage you. There is always a way...you just need the script.

 

Saga

[[Co...]]

Hey guys, just popping in to say Hello. Kiddo, Saga, GIT, laser and everyone else i hope everything is well with all of you.

Ive been holding my dose for quite a bit now and ive seen some improvements. Not much, but its a very slow and gradual process. For all of the new ones on this thread, if my advice holds any credibility and from my experience i completely agree with kiddo. I messed up. I hit a point where i tapered much faster than i could handle and continued down. Go slow, and if you feel poorly, make sure you do what is necessary to make it manageable. Dont push when your body is telling you no.

Im in this weird place that i cant seem to get out of. This whole experience is life changing and so far for me its been in the worst way possible. Still boggles my mind that all this is happening on such a pathetic dose i was taking.

 

Anyways regardless. I miss you guys. Those that ive been close to you know well why i stay off these forums.

 

Ive been practicing dissolving Ativan in alcohol to make my liquid solution. There are some complications but i assume it wont be that much of a problem.

 

Take care and fast healing.

 

 

[[Co...]]

I'm with you Charlotte on not knowing what's what - the benzo, the PTSD, the other meds, my complicated life situation. It does feel like a lonely place to be.

 

The sleep thing is very frustrating too, drives one to tears. Yesterday I stood on a street corner gazing into space for a long time. Again, my mind? the benzo? Bad sleep? Not being employed and being alone? Other? Sometimes I'm helped by melatonin, or by a Tylenol PM capsule for sleep.

 

Lately I'm plagued by clenching my jaw and teeth together. Weird. I'm at 0.68 mg ativan, roughly (breaking pills apart) but also recently started Prozac. I think I need a complete re-evaluation. The clenched mouth thing is weird. More depressed than ever and scared. Feel unable to interact in a real way with real people (an ongoing problem, this isolation). I can talk about it no end here or in emails but when it comes to being in the world, I can't do it.

 

Clenched jaw/teeth grinding is often a way anxiety manifests itself. The voluminous anxiety we feel while tapering/recovering from benzos manifests in many ways. Seeking employment while on benzos can be too much for most to handle. Maybe for you too, but maybe not. Have you thought about investing your energies into getting back in the work force?  It might make you feel a little better to know that you are doing something demonstrable to improve this issue, even if your early efforts are focused on researching target markets/companies/jobs that align with your KSAs and then preparing your resume/applying accordingly.....all alone in the privacy/protection of your own home. The face to face interview of course takes this task to a whole other level, but it could be quite some time between the research/application process and the first face to face.

 

Many of us are one day away from getting a pink slip. Virtually NO JOB is guranteed (ok there are a few exceptions, but these only serve to define the rule).

 

This is one of the biggest things im struggling with myself. Ever since taking the drug ive lost all my friends and it has led me incapable to engage in the activities i enjoy most, which are all physical. My old life is fading away. I dont do much, and when i do its with my parents (im 25). Its quite a depressive feeling knowing that your only friends are your parents. I should be grateful that i have such wonderful people by my side, but i guess the depressive state of mind drowns all of that out. So to be going through all this, feeling alone, with no sense of purpose just makes it all that much harder. I wish i had a job or life project that would keep me consumed and distracted from all this. I KNOW this is something i need to pursue but the agoraphobia and such just makes it impossible. I was never like this before. Anxiety, yes, agoraphobia and depression, very minimal if at all.

[[de...]]

Really hate to have to agree ( again!)

However, no friends....none!

Zilch libido...

Sleep....haha

Numb as a plumb...no emotions that really should be there. Ie, Dads illness etc.

 

Strange thing though...my beautiful 11 yr old westie mutt of a dog ( who's seen a few things over the years!) curls up to me most nights. Something he never used to do...he knows!

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"Good" to hear these last two comments. I know my life situation is messing with me - a lot - not to mention other meds - and yet I remember back in August when I was first trying to come off the ativan and relatively stable on other meds, that I had this strange sensation of my mind kind of slipping. I have this desperate fear of being made insane by meds, life blockages, and so on. My old friends don't want to hear about it anymore, and I feel wooden and lost. Even to my kids (who don't live with me), I fear I'm coming across as some distant uncle. It's so weird and disturbing - nothing I once loved has any interest to me anymore. And I see others enjoying themselves and feel this wistful longing, and discomfort. I can't seem to think or act my way out of it. Went to a job interview on a whim and felt like I projected weirdness. MAybe I've always been weird, and finally my breakdown and then getting dependent on these meds just pushed me over. Body all tight and withdrawn from people. It's rough being so alone with this. At least there's this forum. I wish we could see each other sometimes.

 

[[Ki...]]

NYC - I think you the hit the nail on the head with "whistful longing". I feel this often too. Today I'm really down....I see people laughing and enjoying life and I want to be part of it. Instead, I feel caged and restless. I want to scream "can't you see I'm drowning? How could you be so happy when I'm being broken apart piece by piece?" I don't always feel this way. And I know it will pass. So many people take just plain old happiness for granted. I was one of them. I will never make that mistake again.

 

Pete - I'm sorry you are still struggling and I'm praying you find relief when you get back on the tablets. Please keep us updated. Thinking of you.

 

Delboy - Saga is right, you are miles ahead of the game by landing here before you started tapering. You are going to do great.

 

Cosmic - when do you start your liquid? Keep us posted. You'll do fine. Looking forward to you finding some stability.

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Not to get too wound up, but now a couple of people think I should go to the hospital to "get stabilized" on my various meds, to re-assess, etc. Mostly because I'm constantly upset about my mind and body, reporting the wild panic, the lack of sleep, the feeling of mind slipping, depression. Maybe a hospital stay would help, but I am so reluctant. Part of this process seems to be to be both gentle on oneself but also prepared to work through and accept that it will be (or can be) difficult.

 

I sure don't want to set myself up for failure. There've been a lot of psych med changes in the past month, some may not be so good, so maybe a hospital could help.

 

I do fear the whole ativan thing there though. I'm taking 0.70 (approx - maybe 0.68) dosing 6x/day (which is feeling a little cumbersome) and if I go to hospital I think I would probably just tell them I'm on 0.75 as I doubt they'd be able to give me less... and they'd probably want to dose me 3x/day. This whole scenario worries me. Already my dose is not as precise as most others here.

 

Anyone with any experience in this particular arena, of going to hospital and having to advocate re ativan?

 

Some days I feel upset enough to think I need it ... other times, like now, I'm feeling relatively able to manage. (It's when my mind starts spinning that I get screwed and start worrying everyone with my despair).

 

 

 

[[Ki...]]

NYC - I don't have any experience in going to the hospital, although many times I felt that where I belonged. I'm so thankful my family kept reminding me that I wasn't crazy. My biggest fear was ending up in the hospital.

 

I'm going to be frank with you. From everything I've read or witnessed (I worked in emerg for 7 years) that is not the place you want to be with the caveat being that if you are in any danger of self-harm then yes you need to go.

 

I believe that the doctors will "try" and help you. But the problem is, their teachings all involve drugs. They won't sit and talk with you for hours, get you to meditate, get you to accept what's happening or tell acknowledge that your in withdrawal. My opinion is that they will say the Prozac is working so lets try "Effexor" and the Ativan isn't working so lets try "Klonopin". Your CNS can't handle all these changes. It's already taxed.

 

If you have no prior history of mental illness, then I'm inclined to believe this is withdrawal. If it walks like a suck and sounds like a duck......you know what I mean?

 

I'm going to tell you the symptoms I've experience with benzo AND SSRI withdrawal:

 

- feeling of losing my mind/having a nervous breakdown

- head pressure/noises

- extreme terror/panic attacks

- don't feel real / depersonalization

- cant remember words/cog fog

- dizzy/vertigo/floating feeling

- 24/7 anxiety

- deep depression with suicide ideation

- restlessness/agitation

- isolation/agoraphobia

 

I'm telling you this because these are very common w/d symptoms. Since I've stabilized, they are a much lower intensity or gone most of the time. You can't fight what's happening. This is scary shit, but going to the hospital and making more changes is scarier in my opinion.

 

What about meeting your family/friends half way? Perhaps make an appt with your family doctor or pdoc? If you aren't "safe" then yes, go to the hospital and do what you have to BE safe. If you aren't in danger maybe making a call to your doctor and taking the time to research your choices would be of more benefit than a plan in hospital that would likely be forced upon you.

 

Keep us posted 

 

 

[[Sa...]]

NYC, I agree with all of the points Kiddo made...but I've shared these concerns with you...I'm not sure what happened a year ago but I do understand keeping yourself safe at all costs. Your safety is the most important part of the equation...