The Long Hold Support Group

[[va...]]

I had to drive to Colorado to help my daughter who's having drug problems. She was doing so well for about 2 years, had a good job, but relapsed a few days ago. It seems it usually starts with alcohol and then a downward spiral into other drugs. Do you think we're genetically predisposed to drugs and can even pass it on to our children? I'm not sure if I want to recommend rehab. This will be her third time and I'm not sure if it'll help. Any advice?

 

Jwl I'm so sorry about your daughter. The fact that she confided in you speaks volumes about you as a father. No idea if there's a genetic component. I don't know how old she is and I don't know what the other drugs are but those worry me more because they can be more harmful. I don't know much about rehab and all that. I've been a mild alcoholic since my teens until this drug took even the pleasure of beer away from me. I wish I could help. I do know that you have to take care of you too and not to forget to check on yourself to see what you need and take care of your feelings too, because people with addictions can drag anyone down, especially if you love them deeply. I hope she finds a way out of it. She's a big girl I'm guessing, and there's only so much one can do for her.

[[ja...]]

V is right.  Please take care of yourself too.

[[ki...]]

Jwl, I’m no expert but I have been told that addiction does run in families from several medical professionals. I come from a long line of alcoholics and thankfully am not one myself, but I have been very careful because of my family history (and I don’t drink at all now for obvious reasons).

[[...]]

Thanks for your replies all. My daughter's 26 and was just making a life for herself (just bought a house) and now it looks like she's going to lose her job and everything. I wonder if she was getting a little overconfident thinking she had her addiction beat and started drinking again. I hope she learns that once an addict always an addict. We agreed that maybe an outpatient clinic might be best for her. Right now all I can do is be there for her as she goes through WDs.

[[St...]]

Thanks for your replies all. My daughter's 26 and was just making a life for herself (just bought a house) and now it looks like she's going to lose her job and everything. I wonder if she was getting a little overconfident thinking she had her addiction beat and started drinking again. I hope she learns that once an addict always an addict. We agreed that maybe an outpatient clinic might be best for her. Right now all I can do is be there for her as she goes through WDs.

Good morning LWT l am so sorry to hear your daughter has relapsed that is very hard to deal with.l think they say 50 % is nature and the other half nurture.l know from my experience with alcoholics and drug addicts they tend to be masking an underlying condition however not all so really one size doesn't fit all.l think your daughter has actually showed she wants help by reaching out to you.l know how soul destroying it is to watch your child self destruct however hopefully she will get the help she needs and she will learn how to stay away from drugs.Thinking of you.X

[[St...]]

Morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

Morning Val what exactly is a mild alcoholic never heard that term before.Do you mean you are a functional alcoholic? Have to say honey maybe something you could look at in the future.How is the dizziness any better?l hope your daughter is doing well?Our kids are back at school so please God let's hope they stay there.We will see how this progresses.love you.X

Morning Trish good to hear your getting a lot of crafting done.Listen you will cut when your ready l can't see a problem with your taper infact it is the only way to keep you out of the bowels of hell.I think we all have withdrawal symptoms that seem to remain however we cope with them and get on with our lives.l hope the fam are doing better this week?l am still in Galway going to head down to Limerick on Sunday.l am in no rush and the young ones are enjoying themselves.l will be back when l get a bit of spare time.love you my lST X

Morning Troch thank you honey l will be here cheering you on.You have really made an effort to improve your situation so you deserve support.Well done honey and please keep your chin up.love you.X

Morning Jasmine everything should ease off when you hold long enough.lt just takes a long time to get to that point.You need to work on your mindset and accept this is how it is going to be for now.love you.X

Morning Olive always good to hear from you.How's it going in Portland (wherever that is 😉). Have you settled back in ok? How's your bf doing? love you.X

Morning lady Mary Gilly, Olive Intend Nova, Esperanza NJ GP Suzy Ginger Meems Free and everyone here sending you my love

[[va...]]

Hi Stutt, I wonder how your sxs are after holding at your dose for so long. I imagine you're not cutting now that you have to go back to work. Sorry for that. Yes, let's see what happens with schools. My daughter is starting on the 9th. Many say that schools will open and then close after two weeks. I hope not. The dizziness is not much better. Yesterday was bad. Today plenty of head pressure and nausea. Stutt, when do you know when to cut? As I know you've never had windows, and neither do I really apart from a rare half an hour a month, I was wondering when to cut. My psych dr  says wait till you're symptom free, but I have a feeling that is not going to happen. I feel most of these symptoms are not wd. They are glutamate damage from the crash last year and they will last for years, which happens to many who CTd or tapered at a speed faster than they could cope. So I don't know when to cut. I don't want to hold forever.

 

[[St...]]

Hi Stutt, I wonder how your sxs are after holding at your dose for so long. I imagine you're not cutting now that you have to go back to work. Sorry for that. Yes, let's see what happens with schools. My daughter is starting on the 9th. Many say that schools will open and then close after two weeks. I hope not. The dizziness is not much better. Yesterday was bad. Today plenty of head pressure and nausea. Stutt, when do you know when to cut? As I know you've never had windows, and neither do I really apart from a rare half an hour a month, I was wondering when to cut. My psych dr  says wait till you're symptom free, but I have a feeling that is not going to happen. I feel most of these symptoms are not wd. They are glutamate damage from the crash last year and they will last for years, which happens to many who CTd or tapered at a speed faster than they could cope. So I don't know when to cut. I don't want to hold forever.

Right there with you my lovely l don't get windows or anything really just crap crap and more crap which makes it hard to know when to cut.I generally at the beginning of my taper set a time limit of every three weeks which worked sorts until l got below 3 mgs then hold and cut whenever l actually feel strong enough to bear the withdrawal symptoms.Now l do larger cuts and l must say it does take a long time for me to gather myself together long enough to cut however that is the way l choose to do it.lt isn't pleasant but it is the only way l could get down.l think honey in your case with smaller cuts l would hold for a couple of months then cut.l know it's not great advice but sometimes we just have to deal with the hand we are dealt.X

[[va...]]

Thank you Stutt 😘😘 So, when you do make a cut, you're still having sxs BEFORE the cut but you go ahead and cut anyways, right? Is that how you got down to 0.50?

[[St...]]

Thank you Stutt 😘😘 So, when you do make a cut, you're still having sxs BEFORE the cut but you go ahead and cut anyways, right? Is that how you got down to 0.50?

Yes Val l am still having symptoms have to say l have actually found focusing on say getting down .5mgs at a time rather looking at the bigger picture has helped me.What l mean is set yourself a target in your case probably 0.25 mgs and try to get there then allow your brain to rest.lf l looked at the full dose l was on l became overwhelmed and felt hopeless.l hope that makes sense honey.l am on 0.25 mgs woohoo 🎊🎉.l haven't enough room on my signature to write it.l have decided to stay on until January then l will be off.Hopefully l will have cushioned the post withdrawal symptoms by holding but as you know it may not.

[[va...]]

Thank you Stutt 😘😘 So, when you do make a cut, you're still having sxs BEFORE the cut but you go ahead and cut anyways, right? Is that how you got down to 0.50?

Yes Val l am still having symptoms have to say l have actually found focusing on say getting down .5mgs at a time rather looking at the bigger picture has helped me.What l mean is set yourself a target in your case probably 0.25 mgs and try to get there then allow your brain to rest.lf l looked at the full dose l was on l became overwhelmed and felt hopeless.l hope that makes sense honey.l am on 0.25 mgs woohoo 🎊🎉.l haven't enough room on my signature to write it.l have decided to stay on until January then l will be off.Hopefully l will have cushioned the post withdrawal symptoms by holding but as you know it may not.

´

 

Congrats for being on such a low dose Stutt!! I think you'll be fine when you finally jump. You're holding for a long time at the low doses so I wouldn't expect very bad surprises  . I gather by your signature that you cut an average of 0.25 per three months with some variations. I'll see what I can cope with. I can't wait till I'm symptom free like my doc says because I'd probably wait forever. It worked for Olive though, but she's younger and probably less kindled, IDK. Another options is keep holding and see how much I can improve, but what if it turns to be wasted time? Ahhhhhhhh nobody knows. When I get into some kind of routine, my flat has been remodeled and rented to someone decent, and several other things that are pending in my life, then I'll consider cutting another 0.10 and seeing how that goes. Maybe December. I don't rule out going as slowly as Begood. Whatever seems to work. Have fun on your trip Stutt. Don't worry about my alcoholism, I think what I call "mild alcoholism" would involve much less alcohol than the average Irish citizen drinks, so don't you worry much. I'd kill my mother for a cold beer with ham right now though, but I can't have one, probably ever again in my lifetime, thanks to our dear friend valium.

[[Gi...]]

Thank you Stutt 😘😘 So, when you do make a cut, you're still having sxs BEFORE the cut but you go ahead and cut anyways, right? Is that how you got down to 0.50?

Yes Val l am still having symptoms have to say l have actually found focusing on say getting down .5mgs at a time rather looking at the bigger picture has helped me.What l mean is set yourself a target in your case probably 0.25 mgs and try to get there then allow your brain to rest.lf l looked at the full dose l was on l became overwhelmed and felt hopeless.l hope that makes sense honey.l am on 0.25 mgs woohoo 🎊🎉.l haven't enough room on my signature to write it.l have decided to stay on until January then l will be off.Hopefully l will have cushioned the post withdrawal symptoms by holding but as you know it may not.

 

Stutt,

That's wonderful you're down to .25.  If you are holding until January and then jumping, we will be jumping at the same time. I'm holding at .1 then taking last dose Dec. 31st.  That's the plan anyway.  G.

 

 

[[...]]

Stut and V, I'm sorry you guys are suffering so and can't seem to get stable. V, when you say glutamate damage, I don't think it's damaged as much as it's hyper sensitive (as in kindling). I think your glutamate receptors can't seem to calm down and are releasing at the faintest stimulus. I know you're sensitive to supplements but have you ever tried Vit C? It protects glutamate receptors from early release. I certainly don't want to send you into a wave in your already fragile condition but it's something to consider.

 

My daughter seems to have gone through the worst of it and is now eating and has color in her face. I'm amazed at how only 3 days of meth use can cause such damage. It is truly an evil drug and so addicting. I found that her doctor changed medications on her about 2 weeks ago and it may have contributed to her going off the deep end. In fact she was on FMLA before the incident so there may be a possibility that she'll be able to keep her job. idk Rehab is so expensive. Even with insurance, $3,000

[[va...]]

Stut and V, I'm sorry you guys are suffering so and can't seem to get stable. V, when you say glutamate damage, I don't think it's damaged as much as it's hyper sensitive (as in kindling). I think your glutamate receptors can't seem to calm down and are releasing at the faintest stimulus. I know you're sensitive to supplements but have you ever tried Vit C? It protects glutamate receptors from early release. I certainly don't want to send you into a wave in your already fragile condition but it's something to consider.

 

My daughter seems to have gone through the worst of it and is now eating and has color in her face. I'm amazed at how only 3 days of meth use can cause such damage. It is truly an evil drug and so addicting. I found that her doctor changed medications on her about 2 weeks ago and it may have contributed to her going off the deep end. In fact she was on FMLA before the incident so there may be a possibility that she'll be able to keep her job. idk Rehab is so expensive. Even with insurance, $3,000

 

Jwl, I'm awfully sorry about what you're going through with your daughter. It must be so painful for you to see her suffer like this. I hope your insurance covers therapy for you and that it can help you, because you're definitely going to need someone to help you through all this. I hope she finds her way out of this. We all know the theory: she has to want it herself, she needs to hit rock bottom etc, which is so easy to say but it's a life and the most precious one to you so these are just empty words. It is true though, that no matter what you do or anyone does, the final result will depend on her. Of course having support is important, but there's only so much you can do.

 

Thank you for your advice. OK I might try vitamin C. I'm on a budget now. I can't spend money on more supplements and I prefer to drink orange juice and eat kiwis for now.

 

My mentions to glutamate damage come from a buddy who's no longer around called SG57. When I crashed (benzo crash), I was so desperate and didn't get much better and started reasearching here on the forum. I came up with this guy's posts. He describes glutamate damage very well, which happens after you have tapered at a speed that was too fast for your brain to catch up with. What he described matched exactly what I was going through. He's also very thorough. I'll link his posts in case you feel like reading some. He also studied the interaction between coming off lexapro plus off the benzo more or less simultaneously, like I did. I like his explanations about glutamate damage and I believe that's what it is in my case.  Here are his posts.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25321;area=showposts;start=0

 

 

[[Ol...]]

Hey olive! It's nice to see you again. We were talking about forming a choir. You're the only professional singer here so we need you to take the lead.

 

Jwl I spent three months last summer with barely any sleep. Many nights with 0-2 hours of sleep and brain jolts that prevented me from getting any rest. All I did was pace the house all night. That's why I'm going so slowly now, after that nightmare. I thought it'd never end.

 

:laugh: Professional singer?  :laugh: I guess I could be one on here.. no one knows me  !! Yes I have been in 2 bands but as a dancer, not a musician unfortunately. I am surrounded by musician friends but no natural talent for that whatsoever  However, I will gladly be your singer!

 

Sorry JWL about your daughter.. singing you guys love and strength.

 

Stut, I am having a good time in Portland! It is in the NW corner of the US, just between California and Washington.. both states of which I have lived in as well!

It's been summer here still, very nice weather! I'm happy with my new room and roommates, though I am missing the most important think in my life.. cats! My roommate (and homeowner) is allergic. Eventually I will find another place because cats are just too important to me. But for now, this works because he is giving me a great deal and I don't make too much money. Still have some debt left too from when I was in acute and did not work for over a year.

[[Gi...]]

Stut and V, I'm sorry you guys are suffering so and can't seem to get stable. V, when you say glutamate damage, I don't think it's damaged as much as it's hyper sensitive (as in kindling). I think your glutamate receptors can't seem to calm down and are releasing at the faintest stimulus. I know you're sensitive to supplements but have you ever tried Vit C? It protects glutamate receptors from early release. I certainly don't want to send you into a wave in your already fragile condition but it's something to consider.

 

My daughter seems to have gone through the worst of it and is now eating and has color in her face. I'm amazed at how only 3 days of meth use can cause such damage. It is truly an evil drug and so addicting. I found that her doctor changed medications on her about 2 weeks ago and it may have contributed to her going off the deep end. In fact she was on FMLA before the incident so there may be a possibility that she'll be able to keep her job. idk Rehab is so expensive. Even with insurance, $3,000

 

JWL,

 

I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing better.  Such a worry for a parent.  I  raised three girls so I understand the worry and fear.  When they are little their problems are little.  Not so when they are grown.  Bigger, scarier problems and sometimes there is nothing we can do.

I will be thinking the best for you both and praying she has a full recovery. G

[[Tr...]]

Morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

Morning Val what exactly is a mild alcoholic never heard that term before.Do you mean you are a functional alcoholic? Have to say honey maybe something you could look at in the future.How is the dizziness any better?l hope your daughter is doing well?Our kids are back at school so please God let's hope they stay there.We will see how this progresses.love you.X

Morning Trish good to hear your getting a lot of crafting done.Listen you will cut when your ready l can't see a problem with your taper infact it is the only way to keep you out of the bowels of hell.I think we all have withdrawal symptoms that seem to remain however we cope with them and get on with our lives.l hope the fam are doing better this week?l am still in Galway going to head down to Limerick on Sunday.l am in no rush and the young ones are enjoying themselves.l will be back when l get a bit of spare time.love you my lST X

Morning Troch thank you honey l will be here cheering you on.You have really made an effort to improve your situation so you deserve support.Well done honey and please keep your chin up.love you.X

Morning Jasmine everything should ease off when you hold long enough.lt just takes a long time to get to that point.You need to work on your mindset and accept this is how it is going to be for now.love you.X

Morning Olive always good to hear from you.How's it going in Portland (wherever that is 😉). Have you settled back in ok? How's your bf doing? love you.X

Morning lady Mary Gilly, Olive Intend Nova, Esperanza NJ GP Suzy Ginger Meems Free and everyone here sending you my love

Hey lady!

Good to hear from you. Sounds like you're enjoying the time away, that makes me very happy. You've been through quite a bit and I think this trip was exactly what the Dr ordered. Now have you done any shopping for shiny things say for a twin sister?  :laugh: 😉

Limerick?? I'll have to look that up and see what that looks like. I can only imagine how beautiful Ireland is in person well life is funny and unpredictable so I may get to see for myself one day. I'll put it on my bucket list 😁

I read you're dose is .25 now! Omg that is awesome 🎊🎉💃 you'll be done with this s#@t before ya know it. 

As for me I'm looking at years of benzo time but it is what it is. I know for me I can only get off this crawling all the way. Honestly if it weren't for the pots like sxs I believe I would be able to go faster and be done sooner but unfortunately that is not how it's going to go. I try to remind myself that I was on 3 mgs of this crap at one time, that's 12  .25 mg pills and now I'm on 3 and 3/4's of  .25 mg pills. That's a lot of benzo gone. I've come a long way down the benzo road.

You take care on the road and be safe and most of all enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!!! You deserve every minute of pleasure that you can get!

Love you! LST ❤️

[[...]]

Thanks for the link V. It was very insightful and in that sense maybe it was glutamate damage. I was thinking in terms where glutamate becomes a neuro toxin and can destroy brain cells as what happens with serious concussions.

 

As far as my daughter goes a part of me says to just let her crash and burn and reach rock bottom so she will take this seriously. But another part says I should love her unconditionally and do what I can to help her. I am putting conditions on my help: her commitment to go to AA, counseling, and seeing a functional doc to address her health problems.

 

Thanks for your prayers, Ginger

[[ja...]]

Jwl.

I know you have a lot on your plate, but I have been taking L theanine and I am happy with the effect. Does this work on gaba?

 

The last 3 days have been very good, the shake and surges ate gone. ParatheSia has been mild since yesterday. I am not cursing valium anymore. Therapy and hypnosis is working well. May we all heal fast. God speed.

[[Ol...]]

Thanks for the link V. It was very insightful and in that sense maybe it was glutamate damage. I was thinking in terms where glutamate becomes a neuro toxin and can destroy brain cells as what happens with serious concussions.

 

As far as my daughter goes a part of me says to just let her crash and burn and reach rock bottom so she will take this seriously. But another part says I should love her unconditionally and do what I can to help her. I am putting conditions on my help: her commitment to go to AA, counseling, and seeing a functional doc to address her health problems.

 

Thanks for your prayers, Ginger

 

JWL I love that you are into functional medicine. Did I tell you that I am the office manager for a 3 practitioner practice? I'm sure I did. It's such a wonderful way to look at health and really goes along with everything that we learn here on BB. Supplement protocols absolutely saved me when I was in acute and could not eat and lost 20lbs rapidly. I know not everyone can tolerate them, but I am not sure I would have survived without them.

[[...]]

Jwl.

I know you have a lot on your plate, but I have been taking L theanine and I am happy with the effect. Does this work on gaba?

 

The last 3 days have been very good, the shake and surges ate gone. ParatheSia has been mild since yesterday. I am not cursing valium anymore. Therapy and hypnosis is working well. May we all heal fast. God speed.

 

I'm glad you're doing better and are able to tolerate L-thinene. It promotes GABA production and counteracts glutamate. It's found in black tea. Very nice you're going to therapy. Have you heard of LENS therapy? Google it

[[...]]

Thanks for the link V. It was very insightful and in that sense maybe it was glutamate damage. I was thinking in terms where glutamate becomes a neuro toxin and can destroy brain cells as what happens with serious concussions.

 

As far as my daughter goes a part of me says to just let her crash and burn and reach rock bottom so she will take this seriously. But another part says I should love her unconditionally and do what I can to help her. I am putting conditions on my help: her commitment to go to AA, counseling, and seeing a functional doc to address her health problems.

 

Thanks for your prayers, Ginger

 

JWL I love that you are into functional medicine. Did I tell you that I am the office manager for a 3 practitioner practice? I'm sure I did. It's such a wonderful way to look at health and really goes along with everything that we learn here on BB. Supplement protocols absolutely saved me when I was in acute and could not eat and lost 20lbs rapidly. I know not everyone can tolerate them, but I am not sure I would have survived without them.

 

After being so disappointed with traditional medicine, I'm so glad I found a good functional/Integrative doc. Mine was a MD but was dissatisfied with modern medicine's approach, (throwing drugs at the problem). He looked at the underlining causes of my health problems instead of treating the symptoms. I'm glad you found help too

[[Gi...]]

Thanks for the link V. It was very insightful and in that sense maybe it was glutamate damage. I was thinking in terms where glutamate becomes a neuro toxin and can destroy brain cells as what happens with serious concussions.

 

As far as my daughter goes a part of me says to just let her crash and burn and reach rock bottom so she will take this seriously. But another part says I should love her unconditionally and do what I can to help her. I am putting conditions on my help: her commitment to go to AA, counseling, and seeing a functional doc to address her health problems.

 

Thanks for your prayers, Ginger

 

JWL I love that you are into functional medicine. Did I tell you that I am the office manager for a 3 practitioner practice? I'm sure I did. It's such a wonderful way to look at health and really goes along with everything that we learn here on BB. Supplement protocols absolutely saved me when I was in acute and could not eat and lost 20lbs rapidly. I know not everyone can tolerate them, but I am not sure I would have survived without them.

 

After being so disappointed with traditional medicine, I'm so glad I found a good functional/Integrative doc. Mine was a MD but was dissatisfied with modern medicine's approach, (throwing drugs at the problem). He looked at the underlining causes of my health problems instead of treating the symptoms. I'm glad you found help too

 

I wish there were functional medicine doctors in my region.  The nearest are 5 to 6 hours away.  They go after, as you say, the underlying problems behind illness not just throw meds at them which only treat the sx.

[[tr...]]

Period came 2 days early...I can't even weigh in in this period as I was in a wave before my usual symptoms start. There was the usual uptick in stupid dreams.

But staying ahead of the cramps with ibuprofen is a game changer!

 

My energy and mood did lift a bit today...just super struggling with balance/dizziness/coordination issues in this wave. Its left before and I know it will leave again - just wish I knew when!!

 

Hugs to my ladies!!

[[4G...]]

Jasmine, I've sent you a pm. xxx