Tapering table

[[Pa...]]

 

Just looking for an opinion and some insights. thank you

 

Honestly Charlene, you have a lot more experience with benzo's and certainly with tapering them than I do, I see you started on the forum in 2012 for Ativan.  I took Klonopin for 5 years and quit cold turkey so hopefully you'll be able to rely on some of your past experience to help you with this taper. 

[[Ho...]]

There is no way around discomfort. I came off 2 mg. which is no small dose. Granted I went too fast but no telling if a slower taper would have been better. Point is- the only way out is through. Picking a course of action and following through is the key.

 

[[Ch...]]

 

Just looking for an opinion and some insights. thank you

 

Honestly Charlene, you have a lot more experience with benzo's and certainly with tapering them than I do, I see you started on the forum in 2012 for Ativan.  I took Klonopin for 5 years and quit cold turkey so hopefully you'll be able to rely on some of your past experience to help you with this taper.

Please keep me in your thoughts.  I would have never thought I'd be tapering 4 times

[[Ch...]]

There is no way around discomfort. I came off 2 mg. which is no small dose. Granted I went too fast but no telling if a slower taper would have been better. Point is- the only way out is through. Picking a course of action and following through is the key.

Thank you Holding onto hope.  I ask you keep me in your thoughts

[[Ch...]]

night of 2/19  much better sleep, thank you Bob for the tips.  Took 2nd .5 mg at 3:19 am after tossing and turning.  took 1/8 of 5th pill in am. Thank you all.

 

night of 2/20.  Slept but 2-3 hours could not get to sleep on 1.5 does and too the .5 extra dose and arounds 12:30 or 1:00

 

Night of 2/21.  Sleep better but tossing and turning.  took .5 extra dose at 4: am

 

Night of 2/22 Sleep went to bed a little later. took .5 extra dose at 5 am

 

Night of 2/23 sleep but not alot, took .5 extra dose at 4

 

Night of 2/24 sleep using 2 mag gly for first time but woke up with side pain(?).  anyway took .5 mg extra dose at 4

 

Night of 2/25 sleep using 2 pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 4.  tomorrow on

 

Night of 2/26 sleep using 2 pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 6.45 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill for the first time today Sunday morning at 8 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta 2/27/2022

 

Night of 2/27 sleep using 2 pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 6.00 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 8 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 2/28/2022)

 

Night of 2/28 sleep using 2 pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 5.00 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 8:30 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/1/2022)

 

Night of 3/1 sleep very light sleep if that (couldn't remember is I took pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 2.25 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 8:00 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/2/2022)

 

Night of 3/2 sleep very light sleep if that took pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 4:45 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 8:00 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/2/2022)

 

Night of 3/3 sleep 3-4 hours took pills mag gly (240 mg).  took .5 mg extra dose at 2:25 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 8:00 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/4/2022)

 

Night of 3/4 sleep 6 hours took pills mag gly (240 mg) plus 3 mg of melatonon.  took .5 mg extra dose at 3:25 a/m.  Took 1/2 .5 mg pill 9:00 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/5/2022)

 

Night of 3/5 sleep 4-5 hours took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 4:00 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 9:00 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/6/2022)

 

Night of 3/6 sleep 4-5 hours restless took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 4:10 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 8:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/7/2022)

 

Night of 3/7 sleep 6 hours restless took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 4:51 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 9:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/8/2022) (went to bed a little later 12:30 a.m)

 

Night of 3/8 sleep 6 hours restless took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 5:30 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 8:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/9/2022) (went to bed a little later 12:30 a.m)

 

Night of 3/9 sleep 7 hours but restless and on and off took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 5:30 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 8:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/10/2022) (went to bed a little later 12:30 a.m). 

 

Night of 3/11 sleep 7 hours but restless and on and off took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 5:45 a/m.  Took 1/4 of .5 mg pill 9:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/12/2022) (went to bed a 11:00)  Last time to 1/4 pill. 

 

Night of 3/12 sleep 7 hours but restless and on and off took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 5:00 a/m.  Took 9:45 a.m along with 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/13/2022) (went to bed a 12:45) 

 

Night of 3/13 sleep 3-4 hours but restless and on and off took pills mag gly (240 mg). took .5 mg extra dose at 5:30 a/m.  Took 60 mg cymbalta (on 3/14/2022) (went to bed a 11:30) 

 

 

like many of us I've been thru hell and would have never thought i'd be on benzo's this much. My health history is odd to say  the least because of taking antibiotics over 15 years. I'm 55 years old, a rather normal person and have a 20 year old son and husband (no he's not 20) and like to hang on to both.  I'm very anxious to start the water titrating.  Thank you again, especially Bob,  I do ask all of you to keep me in your prayers and thoughts. (actually I'm 54 how one forgets_

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

We all do what we have to do to get through life, I'm sorry you're in this situation but please know we don't judge you going back on the drug.  I'm glad to know you have a supportive family, they're very important to this process. 

 

It sounds like its going to be a week or two before you start water titrating so try not to live in the future, anxiety, worry and stress can make our symptoms worse.

 

Edit: Spelling

[[Ch...]]

Thank you Pamster.  I'm so afraid I won't be able to do this 4 times who ever thought of such a thing!  I wish I would have told my P doc no, absolutely not. 

 

You have a good day, I need to stop crying

[[...]]

A method to stop crying is to have a tiny goal - something to accomplish - and then do it - and then be happy you finished it.  Do this every day and distract yourself and then celebrate the completion.

 

I am confused.

 

I thought we agreed you would reduce your fifth pill (morning dose) slowly.

 

On week 1, you would take 3/4 of the morning pill.

On week 2, you would take 1/2 of the morning pill

On week 3, you would take 1/4 of the morning pill.

On week 4, your morning pill is gone and we start water taper for the evening medication.

 

It is completely up to you.  If you think you can handle taking only 1/8 of your pill in the morning, then GO FOR IT.  But you need to stick to whatever plan we come up with.  It is hard to help you when you change so quickly.

 

 

[[Ch...]]

No Bob,

 

Your approach is better.  I'm just not thinking clearly at all.  I was thinking I was taking 1/8 each morning for 4 weeks, that's how much I am in duh land.  I can not think clearly at all, so please don't assume anything on my part.

 

I added the add'l .5 today right now at 1.  And when you say week 4 I'm still tapering through week 4 right, I'm not skipping the 1/4 in week 4, I'm tapering that pill thru the fourth week 

 

so 3/4,1/2,1/4,1/4

 

 

 

[[...]]

Since your benzo brain is having trouble, get a paper calendar and write these notes on each day of the calendar:

 

These notes are for the morning dose only. 

 

On days Feb 20 to Feb 26, write the words "3/4 of my pill"

On days Feb 27 to Mar 5, write the words "1/2 of my pill"

On days Mar 6 to Mar 12, write the words "1/4 of my pill"

On days Mar 13 to Mar 19, write the words "NO MORNING DOSE"

 

Starting March 20, we will start your liquid taper.

 

[[Pa...]]

Charlene, you mentioned your husband is helping you, I wonder if he could read this thread so he can help you, we understand how difficult it is to think through the cognitive challenges this process creates.

 

I see Bob just gave you a good suggestion, use a calendar and have your husband help too. 

[[Ch...]]

Since your benzo brain is having trouble, get a paper calendar and write these notes on each day of the calendar:

 

These notes are for the morning dose only. 

 

On days Feb 20 to Feb 26, write the words "3/4 of my pill"

On days Feb 27 to Mar 5, write the words "1/2 of my pill"

On days Mar 6 to Mar 12, write the words "1/4 of my pill"

On days Mar 13 to Mar 19, write the words "NO MORNING DOSE"

 

Sounds good

 

Starting March 20, we will start your liquid taper.

[[Ch...]]

Charlene, you mentioned your husband is helping you, I wonder if he could read this thread so he can help you, we understand how difficult it is to think through the cognitive challenges this process creates.

 

I see Bob just gave you a good suggestion, use a calendar and have your husband help too. 

 

  Good Idea

[[Ch...]]

It's 11/30/2022 and I'm still awake at 11:30.  I did all the steps I was suppsoed to do. I'm so sorry and sad.  What am I going to do?  Right Now I'm going to take the .5 MG and see if that helps.  I don't understand why 1.5 MG does not help me.  I tried to do things to to get tired when I am tired but I can't sleep. 

[[Pa...]]

I'm sad too Charlene, but you can try to get back on your schedule tomorrow.

[[Ch...]]

I get 2 - 3 hours sleep on 2 mg of clonopin.  and it's early in my taper.

 

I will try again Pamster, but it's too early in my taper to have to deal with no sleep.  There has to be something that can be done.  I read on another site someone added Adivan.  But I've already been on that I doubt it that would work plus who whats to add another benzo.

 

I'm asking someone to keep thinking.  thank you.

[[Pa...]]

I'd hate to see you add a short acting benzo like Ativan.  If your main issue is sleep, would your doctor be willing to cross you over to Valium, it would be a large dose but it may provide a smoother taper plus its sedative qualities might offer a little more sleep.

 

Your other alternative I guess is to slow your taper down.

 

Have you read these tips for dealing with insomnia?  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=83.0

[[Ch...]]

We tried crossing over to valium and I had horrific stomach pain.  I don't want to go on ativan either I had a ton of benzo bello/stomach pain, lack of appitite for three years.

 

I don't think slowing down the taper will work, I have not really started the taper as far as the sleeping goes. 

 

Obviously no sleeping pill.  Is Zoliplan a Z sleeping pill?  I have a friend who is on it, of course I'm not thrilled with that either.

 

I will look at you insomnia link.  thank you. 

 

[[Pa...]]

Since you've started and stopped benzo's a number of times, I feel you may be looking at what is known as kindling, you've probably heard of it.  Its been studied quite a bit in relationship to alcohol but it's also being looked at in relation to benzo's.  The reason I'm bringing this up with you is because I don't feel it's productive to compare your past tapers with this one because of the possibility of kindling, here is some information.

 

Kindling: Sensitization of the nervous system due to repeated use and discontinuation of benzodiazepines. With each successive discontinuation, the individual is at higher risk for experiencing more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

Kindling - The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices

https://benzoreform.org/kindling/

 

Kindling - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/kindling/

 

You mention it being too early in your taper for sleep issues, this is what I mean about not comparing past tapers to this one, this one will have unique properties different from the last ones and this would be true even if we weren't looking at the possibility of kindling.  No two tapers are alike. 

 

If you truly want to do this then you're going to have to accept a level of discomfort in order to be free.

 

All z-drugs are just benzo's in disguise, I fell into that trap knowing it was a mistake and I suffered for it.

[[...]]

The 1.5mg may not appear to be working for two reasons.

 

(1) You are taking it too late.  What is the time between taking 1.5mg and putting your head on the pillow?

 

(2) You are putting your head on the pillow before your body is ready to sleep.  Then you lay in bed and let your brain associate the bed with thinking instead of sleeping.

 

Did you read until your eye were so heavy you could not keep them open?

 

How does the 0.5mg work out in term of getting you to sleep?

 

Please answer all 3 questions underlined.

 

Bob

[[Ch...]]

last night my aim was quarter to 10 so took pills at 9:15 I took a shower and scooted in bed.  Lights out at 9:45.

 

Saturday night my aim was 9:30 do I took pills at 8:45 read until 9:30 went to bed.  Husband was in bed at 11 and I was fast asleep. 

 

This the .5 worked 1/2 to and hour so at least by 1:00

[[Ch...]]

sorry took the pills at 9

[[Ch...]]

took pills at 9 I mean. 

[[Ch...]]

Since you've started and stopped benzo's a number of times, I feel you may be looking at what is known as kindling, you've probably heard of it.  Its been studied quite a bit in relationship to alcohol but it's also being looked at in relation to benzo's.  The reason I'm bringing this up with you is because I don't feel it's productive to compare your past tapers with this one because of the possibility of kindling, here is some information.

 

Kindling: Sensitization of the nervous system due to repeated use and discontinuation of benzodiazepines. With each successive discontinuation, the individual is at higher risk for experiencing more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

I betcha it is kindling.  I'm so sad.  I asked my doc about that. 

 

Kindling - The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices

https://benzoreform.org/kindling/

 

Kindling - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/kindling/

 

You mention it being too early in your taper for sleep issues, this is what I mean about not comparing past tapers to this one, this one will have unique properties different from the last ones and this would be true even if we weren't looking at the possibility of kindling.  No two tapers are alike. 

 

If you truly want to do this then you're going to have to accept a level of discomfort in order to be free.

 

All z-drugs are just benzo's in disguise, I fell into that trap knowing it was a mistake and I suffered for it.

[[Ch...]]

I betcha it is kindling.  I'm so sad, I can barely handle anything.  especially eating and sleeping.