Who am I now? Identity group

[[di...]]

I think you already answered. So maybe you are not yet ready but you know that you'll do it when you are? Perhaps what you are doing now is preparing for what might be to come. It's making you a little uneasy to come across these scenarios but it's better than being surprised by them.

 

That said, if this is becoming a bit overwhelming, perhaps you've learned enough for a little while. Let what you have learned sink in before  digging for more.

[[...]]

That said, if this is becoming a bit overwhelming, perhaps you've learned enough for a little while. Let what you have learned sink in before  digging for more.

 

I agree with that 

 

There is no rush, Ani. You can take all the time you need to make a decision, whether to go ahead or leave things as they are for a while longer. Rushing is never a good thing when it comes to this matter. And overwhelming your brain with shoulds and shouldn'ts, with worries of symptoms and med-sensitivity... you are just making yourself stressed and miserable, which serves no purpose other than torturing yourself! 

 

So yes, take your time. Take time away from here, questions and horror stories... take time away from thinking about meds. Take a breather from it all. And when your mind settles, and when you feel ready and that YOU want to look into tapering, you know where to find the info and support that you need 

 

Warm hugs 

Julz xx

[[le...]]

I can totally relate to so much written on here. The most distressing thing is it now feels normal to wake up with anxiety every day, constantly worrying I may have hurt people by walking past them, or throwing something dangerous inadvertently in the trash. The first 18 months or so kept believing it when people said it will get better, that the thoughts will fade  as time goes on. I used be a strong confident person always in control. The constant lockdowns here have undoubtably increased the feelings of isolation, but even when they ease fear I will still be stuck in this parallel universe,unable to participate in normal life Trying to believe I'm not permanently brain damaged, but fear the person I was has gone forever, just this empty shell left.

[[di...]]

You have definitely still got your spirit though, leann. You don't just lie down and accept that you have to feel so bad, you try to do something about it. I remember how it was to sort of forget what it used to be like, so I guess it makes you feel trapped in this state.

[[le...]]

Just get really frustrated don't seem be making any progress. After 2 years really had enough just want to be a normal person again whatever that is. Think you start questioning whether you are the problem. Got dropped by a long term friend last year, basically told me should get over myself, was being very self indulgent etc etc, and was making my husband ill. I did sent her copy of the info on here about withdrawal, but got told she was blocking my texts and e- mails. Then out blue got Xmas & birthday card, and again nothing when thanked her for it. She's long term anti depressant user so maybe they're to blame. I just feel angry gp's get us hooked on these meds, only to then suddenly stop them, going against all the guidelines recommended by NICE.

[[La...]]

My heart goes out to all of you. I really want to say that these drugs rob people of who they are and deceitfully change them into someone unrecognizable. But once you've off you can either redefine yourself for the better or get back the person you were before. Day by day. Don't give up!

[[di...]]

You never know leann, when this is all over you might bump into your friend and say you're all better, and you might rekindle the friendship. I think a friend has dropped me but he won't say it, just sends a vague reply when I say hi but doesn't really answer about anything deeper or planning anything etc. Just gives me the swerve for some reason. Well, he's busy working and being a dad. So whatever, I think one day I'll tell him why I was how I was and we'll clear things up. It's not that big of a deal, really. It's just not my style to be evasive like that. It feels dishonest but I could be reading too much into it.

[[le...]]

Tried various attempts with olive branch with my friend, she has lot issues I think. Very overweight and on lot meds for various related health problems but happy keep taking AD makes no effort to loose weight. Just felt sad as our husbands been friends for over 40 years, tried contacting him so they at least could stay in contact as didn't want be responsible for ruining their relationship, but got ghosted by him. Got told I'd alienated every person who ever loved me, as I say think she's just screwed up as me. Think others have lost friends going through this sadly.

[[di...]]

So one day in the future, perhaps a handful of years from now, the issues each of you have will be less and you'll reignite a friendship. Or, you'll move on and have other friends, because you'll be well. It probably sounds impossible, unrealistic, but it's really normal. It does sound a lot like she might be struggled worse than you in many ways though. From a purely health perspective, it's no good you being around each other if you can't help winding each other up and upsetting each other. It's just a clash, two people with issues, both need someone to lean on and aren't strong enough to be leaned on. Sometimes we can help each other when we're down in the dumps, but if we're not going through the same thing, it's difficult. The truth is also that friends come and go, fallout and make up in normal life. This is human nature rather than being a benzo thing.

 

In some ways, it is liberating to look around and see people who might be as messed up as we are. At one time, I wasn't seeing anybody as even close to the kind of mess that I was. Now it's like I've got my problems but they don't seem as bad as the ones that other people carry with them. Same here too, nobody wants to make a change. They want things to be better without going out of their comfort zones, which is a recipe for frustration.

[[le...]]

Think I will just have to let it go, think because I was in a really bad place when it happened affected me more. My mother is pretty toxic always made it clear my sister was the favourite, even though sister lives in Oz she handles all her financial affairs exclude me from everything, so guess feel the sense of rejection more deeply.

 

Just unfortunate I've been so bad this last year when corona hit, as being with other people really helped my recovery and was distraction from the mental torment. Just so hard to believe my brain will ever re set itself, the CBT and therapy didn't really help, just being unable to control any aspect of how quickly I recover so hard. Previously I've always employed self help measures when I had health problems to alleviate things, but doesn't work with this,,,

[[fo...]]

good thread Meg. I find myself wondering this same question often these days. i've been on and off benzos for 25+ years. I had no idea what tolerance was. Now that I'm down to .15mg clon, i can't help but think back to how much of my life has been ruined by these drugs. whenever i would stop taking, it wouldn't be long before my anxiety would start up again (now know that as a wave) and I assumed- and had been told by my pdoc- that it was my original anxiety returning, only this time much worse. I have been through withdrawal SO MANY TIMES over the years and how did I rectify it? By taking more clonazepam of course. I remember mornings when I would wake up with the pounding, racing heart and tingling in my arms. It used to send me into a tailspin.

 

I don't understand how I could've gone so long without this information. Thank god for a very cognizant therapist (LMFT) I started seeing in 2018. She brought the idea of tolerance to my attention last year. She had to help her autistic son come off benzos so she's quite familiar with benzo withdrawal.

 

I think I may start a thread on this to see if anyone else has been through something similar. Stuck taking these meds for years and years, never knowing tolerance existed.

 

Having a hard time dealing with this newfound information. Thanks for the support.

 

 

Karen

I have a very similar experience to yours. I started taking Klonopin when I was 27. I started tapering at the age of 50. I never knew that all those years I was in a state of tolerance withdrawal, and I also was kindled. I would up or lower my dose depending on what I felt my level of anxiety was. Every doctor I saw whether it was a primary care or psychiatrist just allowed me to bounce up and down the scale between one and 3 mg over a period of 23 years.

I also took a variety of different antidepressants and a typical antidepressants throughout this entire time. I also had a drug and alcohol problem for a shout seven of those years. I got sober in 2003 and continued  to take a combination of Klonopin and various different antidepressants that were prescribed to me. I could never find the joy and the peace in sobriety that all of my peers seemed to find. I realize now that was because the Klonopin was making me depressed and also I was having rebound anxiety from it and in a constant state of withdrawal from tolerance.

I now realize that 23 years of my life was severely negatively affected by this drug. Compared to how negatively it’s been affected since I started tapering, the years of suffering then don’t  seem as bad. But I’m so angry and sad that most of my adult life has been severely compromised by this poison.

I feel like the personality that I had when I was in my early 20s is gone. Sometimes I feel like I know who I am, and I know what I believe and what I like, and other times I feel like it’s all false. Like it’s all a façade that I built up because I didn’t know what else to do because I couldn’t find my true identity. I feel like I don’t know who I am from when I wake up in the morning until I go to bed at night. Like it’s all just a game and I’m making my way through life. I think I like poetry and hip-hop and independent films, but I really don’t know if I do or if that’s just something I think I’m supposed to like? It’s so bizarre.

[[di...]]

How are you doing foolscapfire?

 

I'm sorry the thread died after you posted. I think it might have to do with my derailing it with my very long posts. I can only imagine how weird it is for you. I have some difficulties just feeling like I lost 6 years but it's only the difference between my late twenties and early thirties. Not that easy to get my head around but not the same scale of a challenging.

 

The anger and confusion is totally natural but perhaps one way to look at it is that not everybody gets the chance to find out who they really are. It would seem that you have the opportunity, albeit a bit later than you'd prefer. At first it's a puzzle that seems impossible to solve and you just keep thinking about it without seeming to get anywhere. When you manage to get a couple of the pieces right, things do fall into place a lot easier.

[[...]]

How are you doing foolscapfire?

 

I'm sorry the thread died after you posted. I think it might have to do with my derailing it with my very long posts. I can only imagine how weird it is for you. I have some difficulties just feeling like I lost 6 years but it's only the difference between my late twenties and early thirties. Not that easy to get my head around but not the same scale of a challenging.

 

The anger and confusion is totally natural but perhaps one way to look at it is that not everybody gets the chance to find out who they really are. It would seem that you have the opportunity, albeit a bit later than you'd prefer. At first it's a puzzle that seems impossible to solve and you just keep thinking about it without seeming to get anywhere. When you manage to get a couple of the pieces right, things do fall into place a lot easier.

hey

In fact, your posts help me.This is just my perspective, but you have the perfect ratio of compassion / knowledge / rationality and it helps me. When I read a post that is over-emotional or over-rational, any post that is based solely on one emotion, I get lost. I get lost in it and start thinking too much. However, after reading your posts,I get all the answers and become calm. I don't know, it's hard for me to explain. I just want you to know that you are helping me, that you are working well on my crazy brain, thank you!

I am not writing on this topic because I am currently angry, at myself, at everything around me ... and it is better not to write in this state ...

How are you?

[[...]]

foolscapfire...

Oh yes, I'm angry too!

How do you accept that so many years have been lost because of medicine? How to accept that doctors don't care and don't trust us? .. Honestly, luckily I am a 50kg woman and physically weak.Because if I was stronger, I would surely visit a few responsible people (and they think they aren’t), and slap them! In fact, whoever I talk to, at some point I lose control and have a need to physically deal with it. Of course I won't start beating people, but I want to...

[[di...]]

Thanks Ani. It's nice to know when we help someone, I appreciate it. 

 

I think I learned something about responsibility because of benzo withdrawal. You're right, people do shake responsibility quite easily. One big problem with our culture is that most people have a job and many of those people think they don't need to consider the effect that their actions have while they are carrying out their jobs.

[[...]]

I have also learned a lot in the last couple of years (including responsibility).

When I read somewhere (understood and accepted),that every situation we are in is a reflection of our mental state,I changed my opinion about myself,my whole life and everything that happened.I mean, it’s logical and obvious that it’s a reflection of our mental state, those are the basics of psychology.

I became grateful for all the “bad” people and situations that happened to me because that’s when I actually realized how mentally bad I was!

What’s wrong with me when I’ve allowed people to treat me like that? The moment you stop blaming other people for their behavior towards yourself, and take responsibility is liberating and intimidating.

Liberating because you know that all the answers are in ourselves, and frightening when you realize how much we don't really know, how much they have taught us wrong and how much we need to change in essence. And I am responsible for this condition of mine. I mean, all the unresolved emotional states had to “come out” somewhere, in my case they are in the form of anxiety. No one forced me to take pills, I could learn to deal with anxiety ....

So, I'm not saying that doctors are solely to blame, but that they are also responsible.

Educating about addiction and the side effects of long-term taking is absolutely theirs.I mean, they know how to prescribe medicine and they don't know how to stop taking it properly and safely?..

[[di...]]

I hear you about not being a pushover. I don't take prisoners, these days. It can get me into scrapes and I feel that in time, I need to dial back my reactions when someone crosses me. It's not that bad but I have gone too far the other way. I need to find a balance because I don't like either extreme. One thing is for sure though, I won't lie down if it's something really bad. Now I know that I can hold my own, that's what I'll do.

 

I guess my big problem, in a nutshell, is that I think you're right about all the stuff we've been taught wrong and how we need to change in essence. The thing is, my financial situation makes it difficult to justify (for example) turning down jobs because they go against my values. Right now, I'd struggle to do many jobs because amongst the happy hippy stuff, I do have some unresolved anger that doesn't affect me on the day-to-day stuff as we speak but I have my moments when I'm not in complete control. With work stress and the anger bubbling under the surface, it seems like I could do damage. I hope that my path will become more clear when I'm further along in my recovery. It has been stressful for my family and I think they'd quite like me to transition from recovery into a normal, boring job. They may well be disappointed.

 

This is my problem related to identity. It's not that I'm so unsure of who I am, it's that other people don't know and it's not easy to tell them.

 

In time, you'll go beyond blame. The system is crummy and I'm not into singling out individual cogs in the wheel. Abuse of authority and power is just totally rampant and literally everything touched by money is corrupt. Abuses by the medical establishment are just what I'm most familiar with but this kind of thing exists everywhere. Some people might find this depressing but it makes it easier for me to not feel so personally wronged when I know how widespread this kind of exploitation is.

[[La...]]

Well I've read some great points on here. Firstly I'd like to say that it is very true that once we see how we let people treat us, we become angry. First at ourselves then them. But we can't remain that way. It's unhealthy and doesn't help the situation. Matter of fact, it hurts us more. You have to forgive yourself.

Here's my take on doctors prescribing these pills. They're responsible.....point.....blank.....period! Who suggested the medication? They did. Who wrote the prescription? They did. Who didn't explain to the patient the proper way to take them? They didn't. Who didn't warn about side effects and long term use? They didn't. Who wants to call you crazy when tolerance/withdrawal sets in? They do. Who don't know how to help when withdrawals hit hard? They don't. Who tries to give you other/more pills? They do. Need I say more??

Yes we took them BECAUSE we trusted their medical expertise. We continued to take them BECAUSE they told us to : we need them to feel better, they're safe to take even long term, etc.

There's NO WAY on God's green Earth that if I was told of the dangers that I would have taken them. At the end of the day, they took a vow to first do no harm.

Having said all of that, I refuse to live in anger. My focus is on healing. Getting my life back. I'm glad I know now because I still could be taking them doing more damage. I'm a stronger woman because of this experience. Truth be told....natural childbirth was a walk in the park compared to going through this. I'm not going to waste my time being pissed at that idiot doctor who first gave it to me to sleep. What good will that do? But I am now warning anyone who will listen!

I'm a survivor! That's who I am!

[[di...]]

I have been biding my time telling about the dangers. It sounds too much like I'm saying "I told you so" to some people because it has been a long time since I first became sick with the SSRI Zoloft/Sertraline so I have said a lot to different people over the years and I don't know how much they believed this was the problem. I don't want to narrativize it to this degree, I just want it to be understood on a simple level that I took some people, they made me sick and put me into an impossible situation, I held out and survived and slowly got off the pills and worked hard to recover, I'm not fully there yet but I do feel pretty good and I have reasons to be optimistic for further recovery.

 

It is so totally their fault but it's ignorance more than anything else. Wilful ignorance which definitely has the effect of winding me up. They're something like climate change deniers. They don't want to change their practices and that's what really matters. I think people resist examining the opposing evidence because they can't stand to believe they have hurt many people in the past.

[[le...]]

I feel the person I was has gone, just feel angry all the time these meds have ruined my life, after 2 years not had any Windows. I appreciate others whose recovery has been quicker can't understand  the sense of hopelessness you feel when things fail to improve month after month. I have tried distractions, therapy, CBT , nothing has made a significant difference. I really feel doctors should be made to be held responsible, I was stable and normal taking a very low dose of zopiclone could live a normal life. Making me go cold turkey was unforgivable. Trying to get out of this negative loop when you have severe mental symptoms is getting more and more out of reach. The SSRI's increased the symptoms tenfold, now have anti depressant withdrawal as well, given up at the moment.

[[di...]]

I felt like you describe now in 2016 more than a year following my sertraline cold turkey. The difference is that back then I couldn't find any evidence of people suffering so much for so long. That's when I started diazepam and it made me feel lots better, although I was still a mess and went off the rails. Then over time, the diazepam sunk its teeth in and I began to feel really bad except this time I was hooked on diazepam. It was such a desperate thing for me to do. I even saw hints at the horror that was to come, people saying the withdrawal was unbearable, but I didn't want to know about that because I wanted relief and that was that. I think you will agree that this doesn't sound like the person I have now become and that's because after going through that heartache, I am recovering properly and getting my right mind back. I guess some people find it a bit much to read stories like mine but what I'm trying to get across is how things can turn around.

 

Also, these drugs are just bad news, period. There are so many people involved in their supply, distribution and even more disgustingly their marketing and advertising. If your job is to help produce adverts that aim to trick people into ingesting a poison, you are also responsible for excess injuries and early deaths. Cold turkey is rotten and it should not have happened. You have been hard done by, it's not fair, it's an injustice. But your predicament is not entirely caused by that doctor who yanked you off Zopiclone. If not that even, it would have been something else. Or if you'd have carried on unaware, I believe that your life would not be as good or as long as it is likely to be once you get off the benzo. So maybe it's a blessing in some ghastly disguise that makes it completely unrecognisable to you. It's your "job", when you're able, to take your recovery by the scruff of the neck and make certain it works out for you. You don't need the drugs or any of the crap that they have brought into your life. Keep being strong, keep keeping on.

[[le...]]

Yes you do seem to have recovered amazingly well. Maybe it's because I felt so good on zopiclone lived a normal life only took a low dose would never have stopped it, that feel so crap now. The SSRI's were lot worse to come off. Just can't see any way out at moment. Seems a constant loop when can just about cope definitely not a window fir few days,  then every weekend hit by crashing despair and hopelessness. Don't feel suicidal, more don't care what happens to me if that makes sense. Funnily enough It does help me to hear of others feeling the same, as you feel you are an isolated case. People suggesting you think positive thoughts , not be so negative etc etc really doesn't help, as when the bad waves hit they are totally engulfing. I do realise people are trying to help, but unless you are going through it you don't appreciate how normal thought processes are impossible. There doesn't seem support group for this so think there are less people with severe mental symptoms. Glad you got through it anyway.

[Guest [pa...]]

Don't feel suicidal, more don't care what happens to me if that makes sense.

I know this feeling well. It's like that wired-tired feeling x1000. Before my second flumazenil infusion I didn't even have any strength to complain, I just wanted to go to sleep and never wake up.

[[le...]]

That sums it up quite well. Just seems to be  one long wave that intensifies every few days. I've yet to have a window in 2 years.

[[di...]]

This is the thing though. There really are a lot of people who go through some shocking psychological symptoms. I'm showing patience to promote positivity in the face of adversity because I think it helps more than you know. Time is the true healer but that's not something any of us can help each other with. We can help each other develop the best coping strategies. We can also help each other to lay the right foundation so that when our bodies catch up and heal from the drug toxicity, we will be in a position to make the most of it. I know it's lonely and the lack of effective advice might give the impression of it being even more rare than it is. I think the reality is more that there's no good advice to give, it just sucks.

 

I know how it goes because I remember. I had my uncle to help me see the positive side after my whole world came crashing down. I can remember the look of exasperation when he would try to push a positive message and all I could do was ask "what about this and that?", always looking for problems. It's the benzo brain. It's just what happens. But he stuck to his guns and I know that he was getting through even if there was a delayed reaction. I have patience because I know that if I can show that sometimes the "what about...?"'s are not as big a deal as they seem and that there's a positive you missed, then that's going to help you.

 

I also know that this ordeal just plain F-ing sucks, whichever way you slice it. It's bound to get to you sometimes because you're only human, after all. It might look like I don't care at times because I don't tend to focus on this part of the issue. It's not that I don't care or I don't get it, it's just that other people are better than me at consoling others in this way. I let them do that and put my main focus on helping with practicalities and mindset because that's what I'm good at. I've had a lifetime of practice due to disability in my immediate family.

 

I know that people sometimes find me irritating, especially when I seem to be giving repetitive advice. It might sometimes look like I'm being unrealistic, overly simplistic and because of this it comes across as insensitive at times. I'm working on that, trying not to get sucked in too much and let my competitive side take over. In my defence, I aim to show people when and how to apply mindful strategies, rather than just telling people that it's a good idea. A lot of my advice looks similar as a result but that's partly what I'm trying to get across. People start to get it when they see how it can be applied in different settings. Maybe you don't realise it but I see you applying mindful principles and I strongly believe that must be helping you by some amount. Something is sinking in even if you don't feel it and you deserve credit for trying your best. I promise you that the effort you put in is not for nothing. You are doing great, leann.