The two sides of the coin

[[go...]]

I doubt that people here are outliers . Maybe this is the more vocal bunch or people that were lucky to have had help in their lives so they did not end up dead from benzos directly or indirectly. But hardly outliers. Just because many people are not registered on this forum, doesn't mean they are not suffering some pretty horrible psychiatric drug effects. Maybe forums are just not their thing. There are other non-mainstream sources of help other than forums like this one.

 

We are absolutely outliers. That is the only way this problem is able to exist. We can speculate all day long how many people are grievously harmed by these drugs and we will never really know, but one thing we can be sure of is that if it weren't a relatively rare thing we wouldn't be met with the skepticism we get from the medical community and the general public.

 

People aren't dumb, they can recognize patterns when there is enough evidence of a pattern. And there is no big conspiracy, it is just rare enough that relatively few doctors will ever bother to question conventional wisdom about these drugs.

 

This problem is much bigger than the medical community will ever acknowledge but it it is also a lot smaller than it might seem to those of us who are experiencing it.

 

This is a really interesting thread and I have enjoyed reading as much as my brain allows me to. I have been wondering about weighing up conspiratorial thinking in my head. I try not to give into but I sometimes wonder this, the vast majority on here and on benzos were given no warning that the withdrawal effects could be so devastating (before the first day I took a benzo i actually didn't even know they existed, i had never heard of them before). Now whilst we may be in the minority there is enough people here for it to become an issue. How were the side effects and withdrawal issues never mentioned at al, yet there seems to be quite a number (even if it remains small) of people who can claim that they had a major impact on their lives with devastating symptoms, surely there would be some even mild warning. At what number do we cross the threshold, and is there someone trying to keep the voices of those effected repressed. Like what would the number of people needing to be effected for this to be acknowledged and spoken of by the medical community.

 

And I don't mean online circles where there is plenty of info if you know where to look, they are no help when you previously completely healthy and never know that such negligence from doctors could exist.  I barely took any medication for even small things before this so the idea of having to rigorously research a drug you prescribed was completely new to me.

[[Fl...]]

I promised I would stay away, and I will, but I just wanted to say to Florida that we got into it pretty harshly in this thread.  I might have said somethings that were hurtful to you personally.  I never want to be that guy. and I apologize.

 

And I also have to say that of all the things you have ever posted, that last post is the one with which I agree the most.

 

Ramcon1

 

No need to apologize to me for anything. I appreciate being able to have frank conversations.

[[Fl...]]

Fair enough, but then again, who is this "we" that you keep referring to, FloridaGuy?

 

"We" meaning people who have been substantially harmed by benzos.

 

I don't think that this problem is rare at all. People aren't dumb, but the majority of people are either emotionally or intellectually unequipped to understand this (i.e. "I don't want to know because it scares the hell out of me" or "I don't want to hear about this because it is just not possible. Please show me any scientific studies to back up your claims.").

 

There are no doubt many people out there who are being made ill by these drugs unbeknownst to them. But how many as a percentage of people who take these drugs? Of course I don't have any scientific evidence to back this up but it would seem to me that if half or more of people end up being made extremely ill by benzos it couldn't be so easily ignored.

 

People are not dumb, but most people are just not equipped to understand these truths.

 

Most? I don't buy that. Today pretty much everyone has access to the internet and although medication spellbinding is real I still believe that most people have enough presence of mind to investigate things for themselves.

 

Not to mention that there is not much money (or any) to be made by exploring these truths.

 

This certainly accounts for a good portion of the doubt in the medical community. When your paycheck depends on it there is a lot of incentive not to look too deeply into things. But at a certain point it would be something that simply couldn't be ignored or dismissed.

 

Also, before you'd taken any of the psych drugs, did you actually even have a slightest inkling that something like this would happen to you? My guess is "no", because why would you otherwise sign up for years of suffering? People are not masochists. I am certainly not.

 

I doubt that any of of could have imagined that something like this could happen.

 

So, there it is. Direct evidence. She saw a family member take benzos long-term and become agoraphobic. It was direct observable evidence one could make informed conclusions from.

 

I have met people in person who were harmed by benzos as well. But how many others have taken them with few issues? When you are shopping for a new F150, it seems like they are everywhere.

 

 

[[Lo...]]

 

People are not dumb, but most people are just not equipped to understand these truths.

 

Most? I don't buy that. Today pretty much everyone has access to the internet and although medication spellbinding is real I still believe that most people have enough presence of mind to investigate things for themselves.

 

Lets hope that most people will have enough presence to research . I am just personally very uncomfortable with "benzos are bad for you (you - the uninitiated or 'not yet there' folks)" yet "most people who stop them don't have any problems" (how does one prove they are bad in the first place?), and "we (we - the severely harmed) are the outliers, but we (we -the severely harmed) know that benzos are bad for you (you - the uninitiated or 'not there yet' folks)".

 

And how do we (we - the severely harmed) know this? (s    silence, stigma, pride, shame, fear, more silence). "Nah, lets just say that they are bad for you (you - 'the uninitiated or not yet there' folks).

 

It just doesn't sound very convincing. Most people will say. "Ah, those are the outliers. Why should I listen to them? They are the outliers, anyway....". "I will trust my doctor over those outlier people who obviously don't sound all that terribly convincing, anyway."

 

And the problems keeps perpetuating itself and more new people become the "outliers"....

[[Ma...]]

I do agree that a lot of anxiety can be reduced by changing our environment, expectations, and stimuli.

 

What about the deeper damage for some caused, I believe, by how we were raised and inadvertently, but damaging nonetheless, by neurotic parents or some kind of less than fairy tale home life. I'm not even talking about actual abuse but something more like misdirected parenting, or joyless parenting, or whatever. I guess years of counseling?

 

Anyway, there is a reason I used drugs. I wasn't tricked by doctors or pharmaceutical companies. I believe part of the pain and discomfort I feel nowadays is simply who I would have been without drugs. I have to get used to that.

 

Drugs felt good and made me feel normal. I'm not afraid to admit that.

 

I guess we all have a different story to tell I never felt my drug made me feel normal, it made me feel drugged I liked it of course, and for those who want to see these cases in the lens of self responsibility alone I was probably guilty of an indulgence of a sort.

 

In regard to being tricked, I an mot sure I understand your point. Either we were made aware of the risks of tolerance and long term side effects or we were not Either were made aware of the risks of withdrawal or we were not. There is no sleight of hand involved in the equation as far as I can see

[[Rx...]]

When I search "benzodiazepine epidemic", I note a number of results indicating epidemic proportions.  It's easy for me to see why it's ignored in one word, liability. 

[Guest [Sk...]]

 

Apparently, there is a trend there:

Some SNRIs, such as venlafaxine (Effexor XR), duloxetine (Cymbalta) and milnacipran (Savella), may help relieve chronic pain. People with chronic pain often develop depression along with their chronic pain. ... Milnacipran is used to relieve fibromyalgia pain and can cause side effects, such as nausea and drowsiness.

Antidepressants: Another weapon against chronic pain - Mayo Clinic

https://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medications/art-20045647

 

Cymbalta (duloxetine) also has a very short half-life.

Elimination: Duloxetine has an elimination half-life of about 12 hours (range 8 to 17 hours) and its pharmacokinetics are dose proportional over the therapeutic range. Steady-state is usually achieved after 3 days.

 

 

Technically, both Cymbalta and Effexor are SNRI's and having a dual neurotransmitter effect (serotonin, norepineprhine) and God knows what else, and I really doubt that they are all that fantastic for people with persistent anxiety issues. They may be useful for chronic pain, so I won't comment on that. I am strictly looking at these as potentially dangerous for people with pre-existing anxiety disorders.

 

https://www.prohealth.com/library/eli-lilly-settles-cymbalta-withdrawal-lawsuits-7234

[[Fi...]]

 

Apparently, there is a trend there:

Some SNRIs, such as venlafaxine (Effexor XR), duloxetine (Cymbalta) and milnacipran (Savella), may help relieve chronic pain. People with chronic pain often develop depression along with their chronic pain. ... Milnacipran is used to relieve fibromyalgia pain and can cause side effects, such as nausea and drowsiness.

Antidepressants: Another weapon against chronic pain - Mayo Clinic

https://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medications/art-20045647

 

Cymbalta (duloxetine) also has a very short half-life.

Elimination: Duloxetine has an elimination half-life of about 12 hours (range 8 to 17 hours) and its pharmacokinetics are dose proportional over the therapeutic range. Steady-state is usually achieved after 3 days.

 

 

Technically, both Cymbalta and Effexor are SNRI's and having a dual neurotransmitter effect (serotonin, norepineprhine) and God knows what else, and I really doubt that they are all that fantastic for people with persistent anxiety issues. They may be useful for chronic pain, so I won't comment on that. I am strictly looking at these as potentially dangerous for people with pre-existing anxiety disorders.

 

https://www.prohealth.com/library/eli-lilly-settles-cymbalta-withdrawal-lawsuits-7234

I wonder how many lawsuits have been settled for damages caused by benzodiazepines?

[[Ma...]]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697102/