The Klonopin Klub#2

[[no...]]

So we met with a local pdoc yesterday who tapers folk off with Ashton by switching to valium (quick... the 1 mg a week when you get lower). Did not love him. He said it was just coincidence that my problems started right when I had my health issues in October. What?!! Seemed to think all women over 50 needed to be on an SSRI. Didn't listen and quoted things back incorrectly. Doesn't let patient be in charge of taper speed. He says he's tapered hundreds but can't speak to long term results because a lot were in patient and so no followup - by that I think Uni would be considered a success when she detoxed. Also decided without asking much about it that I need a higher dose or different antidepressant as my anxiety wasn't well medicated even though we explained the anxiety had only been 3-4 days every two week taper drop and had spiked when I went to the DLMT in June. It's been better the last week - 5 week hold. I drop again tonight. Going back to cut and hold, 5.8%.

 

It's possible the lexapro isn't helping as much as it could as I started it two days after Klonopin in January... but I'm not ready to do anything with it at this time. He seemed to think I should stop the taper and work on upping or switching the lexapro.

[[Sc...]]

NJ,

 

It’s definitely possible that its the K. Like I said, I crossed over to it from X, and with 2 weeks of that my voice changed dramatically. My then Pdoc noticed this and asked me about it, and when I told it’s the benzo, she just got exasperated and shook her head. Then she asked if I’d tried any speech therapy.

 

I told her I’d had a ton of speech therapy because I had. With my rare disease and all those surgeries, one of the first things the docs do is to test your voice. And even before and during all those less invasive surgeries, I had continuous speech therapy.

 

After that cross over to K, I got depression and nausea. Neither one lasted long, but I still get them both intermittently. It’s a given here that I’m not adjuster to different generic brands, but in spite of that, what’s going on now with me?

 

Occasional nausea and depression.

Burning skin on my legs

Almost total loss of my voice (not a changed voice, but a loss of a voice)

Laryngeal spasm that is extremely painful

Dental pain on the left side of my face

Vision problems where I get sx like I have allergies

Fatigue and some insomnia (I wake up after 2 hours of sleep and can feel that cortisol rush)

Confusion about doing the silliest of things

 

And all this “stuff” started before tapering. Tapering has made it so much worse. I’ll get the nausea even more often with tapering. And this taper is super small and slow.

 

I generally feel better at night myself, and this stuff begins again in the morning. I take my doses 2 times per day, and if I do have a decent whisper of a voice, it’s gone once I take that morning dose.

 

If you look at that list of clonazepam side effects, I think you might notice that your problems may have also started when you first took K. I know mine did. Nothing surprises me about this drug.

 

I’m positive it has made me sick from the first time I took it.

 

But you’ll get off, and I think your sx will go away.

 

The only member here that I’ve ever read talk about these side effects was kgirl10. I just truly believe that we have to realize it’s not just w/d effects; it side effects also.

 

Let’s us know about your job. That may help also. These outside stressors definitely contribute to how we’re feeling.

 

Yes, kgirl10 said her symptoms got better when she was lower than off K.

 

For me, I really had no symptoms before tapering. I just realized how horrifically addicted I was to this medicine, and decided to get off (plus it no longer helped with sleep, the original reason for starting it).

 

The best years of my life were on klonopin and lexapro. I sometimes wonder if I should have just gone up in dose instead of trying to get off. I don't even have any cog fog or memory issues--I have been asked if I have a photographic memory, as my memory is still excellent, and I am almost 50. But maybe now the K is turning on me, or my body is just tired of the slow taper and wants me off. I have updosed/held and really made no progress at all in months. I now may continue to hold through mid-September with another job change (would start in mid-August), then I will try to taper as aggressively as I can. Will lean on my medical marijuana for help if need be. Still figuring that part of the equation in terms of what dose works best.

 

I also wonder if periomenopause is causing the issues with nausea. I have read that this can cause issues. All my friends seem to be a mess right now with different things.

 

I am sorry you are having so many symptoms and have so many challenges. I hope you get some relief and can find some consistency with a generic.

Hi hate to b short since I’ve been away but I’m not well. You said you took lexapro? Did you only take brand? If you took generic, which one was it & did it compare to brand well? I’m there I need a p med but I’m med resistant scared of generics & Meds in general. Been trying two different generic k pin s first actavis for a week, was clenching teeth, poor sleep, sobbing, intrusive thoughts so switched to solco, worse sleep, less teeth clenching, less intrusive thoughts, chugging coffee plus in midst of all this tried provigil, not for me totally screwed me up. I’m on the brink. Now feel like need new p doc. Scrambling to research one. Going back & forth tween solco cause think it mght make me more drowsy & actavis maybe less drowsy but more withdrawal? Hot f in mess. Started ms injections. Need psych med ASAP lots to fill everyone in on when I can think more straight. Thanks SC

[[Un...]]

nolonger,

 

You are absolutely correct in what you said about me being considered a “success” by the doctor and detox staff who put me through that hell.  The doctor assured me that I was fine, when I clearly wasn’t.  Then when I contacted him after being out of there and told him all that was happening, he said it’s abnormal and I should be recovered by 30 days max.  He went on to say that there must be an underlying mental condition and suggested that I come to his private practice so he could subscribe me other psych meds.  Never spoke to him again.  It’s so sad that doctors are so unaware (or are they?) of the very REAL acute and post acute WD experiences, aka brain injury.  I’m sorry that this doctor you saw minimized what you are going through and signed it off as coincidence- ya right!  And all women over 50 needing ADs!?  Wow.  Just wow.  We absolutely need to be able to control our taper speed and know very well what we’re experiencing.  You have a doc that is prescribing so you can go at your own pace? 

[[NJ...]]

NJ,

 

It’s definitely possible that its the K. Like I said, I crossed over to it from X, and with 2 weeks of that my voice changed dramatically. My then Pdoc noticed this and asked me about it, and when I told it’s the benzo, she just got exasperated and shook her head. Then she asked if I’d tried any speech therapy.

 

I told her I’d had a ton of speech therapy because I had. With my rare disease and all those surgeries, one of the first things the docs do is to test your voice. And even before and during all those less invasive surgeries, I had continuous speech therapy.

 

After that cross over to K, I got depression and nausea. Neither one lasted long, but I still get them both intermittently. It’s a given here that I’m not adjuster to different generic brands, but in spite of that, what’s going on now with me?

 

Occasional nausea and depression.

Burning skin on my legs

Almost total loss of my voice (not a changed voice, but a loss of a voice)

Laryngeal spasm that is extremely painful

Dental pain on the left side of my face

Vision problems where I get sx like I have allergies

Fatigue and some insomnia (I wake up after 2 hours of sleep and can feel that cortisol rush)

Confusion about doing the silliest of things

 

And all this “stuff” started before tapering. Tapering has made it so much worse. I’ll get the nausea even more often with tapering. And this taper is super small and slow.

 

I generally feel better at night myself, and this stuff begins again in the morning. I take my doses 2 times per day, and if I do have a decent whisper of a voice, it’s gone once I take that morning dose.

 

If you look at that list of clonazepam side effects, I think you might notice that your problems may have also started when you first took K. I know mine did. Nothing surprises me about this drug.

 

I’m positive it has made me sick from the first time I took it.

 

But you’ll get off, and I think your sx will go away.

 

The only member here that I’ve ever read talk about these side effects was kgirl10. I just truly believe that we have to realize it’s not just w/d effects; it side effects also.

 

Let’s us know about your job. That may help also. These outside stressors definitely contribute to how we’re feeling.

 

Yes, kgirl10 said her symptoms got better when she was lower than off K.

 

For me, I really had no symptoms before tapering. I just realized how horrifically addicted I was to this medicine, and decided to get off (plus it no longer helped with sleep, the original reason for starting it).

 

The best years of my life were on klonopin and lexapro. I sometimes wonder if I should have just gone up in dose instead of trying to get off. I don't even have any cog fog or memory issues--I have been asked if I have a photographic memory, as my memory is still excellent, and I am almost 50. But maybe now the K is turning on me, or my body is just tired of the slow taper and wants me off. I have updosed/held and really made no progress at all in months. I now may continue to hold through mid-September with another job change (would start in mid-August), then I will try to taper as aggressively as I can. Will lean on my medical marijuana for help if need be. Still figuring that part of the equation in terms of what dose works best.

 

I also wonder if periomenopause is causing the issues with nausea. I have read that this can cause issues. All my friends seem to be a mess right now with different things.

 

I am sorry you are having so many symptoms and have so many challenges. I hope you get some relief and can find some consistency with a generic.

Hi hate to b short since I’ve been away but I’m not well. You said you took lexapro? Did you only take brand? If you took generic, which one was it & did it compare to brand well? I’m there I need a p med but I’m med resistant scared of generics & Meds in general. Been trying two different generic k pin s first actavis for a week, was clenching teeth, poor sleep, sobbing, intrusive thoughts so switched to solco, worse sleep, less teeth clenching, less intrusive thoughts, chugging coffee plus in midst of all this tried provigil, not for me totally screwed me up. I’m on the brink. Now feel like need new p doc. Scrambling to research one. Going back & forth tween solco cause think it mght make me more drowsy & actavis maybe less drowsy but more withdrawal? Hot f in mess. Started ms injections. Need psych med ASAP lots to fill everyone in on when I can think more straight. Thanks SC

 

Scardie, I did take lexapro, 5 mg a day for many, many years. I assume it was likely generic but it was a long time ago so I have no idea of what it was. Do you see a pyschiatrist? A psychiatrist might be able to guide you better than a primary care doctor--they really don't know that much about these drugs. Sorry you are having a tough time. I found the lexapro to be very helpful to me in terms of depression and anxiety. I should have stuck with that for sure rather than klonopin. Taper was very smooth as well. Hope you feel better soon.

[[no...]]

I wish I had only used 5mg of Lexapro instead of going to the 10mg my pdoc wanted... well, that's that.

 

Uni, I do have a doc that although she doesn't have any experience is totally fine letting me be in charge of my taper speed so I think I'm going to stick with her. She prescribes the drops I want from the compounding pharmacy.

 

Scardie, sorry you're doing so poorly.

 

So wish me luck as I started my drop again early this morning. Another cut and hold and see if that works better with lower dose than the daily microtaper.

[[Sc...]]

Thanks nolo & nj & hi & well wishes to all.

 

NJ I do have a p doc am just thinking need a new one. I think he’s very cautious & that’s good, he knows I’m med sensitive. Let’s put it this way. I have treatment resistant depression & after tryouts several Meds last year he said I should try etc or therapy. After he’d upped my k pin to 3.5-4mg a day throughout our time together. When I asked if there was anything else he could do besides ect(that scared crap out of me) he tried me on Ritalin then adderal for treatment resistant depression-not a good idea, was just damaging to me & have never been the same(that’s probably when my benzo dose shot way up).

 

This guy is willing to let me taper at own pace, but isn’t helpful with the process at all. That’s his one redeeming factor that & he’s not a drug pusher with the antidepressants for me, but not sure how well he knows the Meds, nor how to diagnose what’s going on with someone, as I’ve been in bad shape for awhile, but now it’s really bad.

One time we were discussing Wellbutrin & he didn’t even know it was an ndri, but rather it was a stimulating med! What. I can understand if he doesn’t want deep psychopharmacology talk but geeze

I was in there the other day asking for antidepressant, severely depressed, & he’s having me choose it, which can be nice, but also saying, are you sure you want to take something, I think you just need therapy. I mean I was bout to check in somewhere so on edge. I wanted brand lexapro since I’m so med sensitive & resistant & he refused to do letter of medical necessity, so generic it is, if I take it.

 

My friend who’s bipolar thinks I’m showing mania. I’ve alwas been only depressed, anxious, never manic. My sister is manic & when friend mentioned it, I recognized some sxs in me for sure. The negative ones. Not sure if from benzos or ms or what but it’s not a good feeling. Whatever it is I hope if it is mania, it’s temporary due to benzos, not a permanent lifelong disorder. Granted haven't been diagnosed with it. I’ve been telling people for months, I just don’t feel comfortable in my own skin, really feel like I need an antidepressant.

 

I’ll copy & paste what I posted in long hold support group now. All feedback input welcome. I’m starting therapy this week, finally. Right now vicious so tired & depressed, chug coffee, poor sleep, depression, cycle. Driving all around me crazy & or away. Sorry I’m so needy & selfish right now guys. I hope I can better be there fo all in the future.

 

Hi all, hope all are well. Sorry I’ve been away so long. Struggling bad with depression, fatigue, poor sleep. Think I’m going to need to stabilize on some sort of antidepressant & on new generic clonazapam prior to trying taper again.

 

My friend that has bipolar, said I’m sounding manic to her. I’ve never been manic, much depression though. If I’m having manic sxs they’re all the negative one no up energy stuff, just impulsive, obsessive, sometimes irritable, poor sleep(waking early since kin generic switch)racing thoughts maybe, poor self control, very depressed, indecisive. She thinks I might need mood stabilizer plus antidepressant.

 

Think need new p doc been frantically searching.

 

Been trying 2 different generics, solco & actavis. Can’t decide. Actavis had teeth clenching, headache, poor sleep, intrusive thoughts, sobbing-solco, less clenching, worse sleep, maybe more daytime sedation, hard to swallow(melt fast)- both so tired all the time. Did a week on each & I just don’t know.

 

Anyone know if I take .5-6am, .5-12pm, .5-6pm  2mg- 9:45pm, could I move 6pm dose to bed dose & spread daytime doses further apart?

 

Nuero doesn’t think fatigue from benzos , but ms & or depression, but maybe quitting smoking unbalanced things took stimulation away or made me metabolize clonazapam slower.?? And it is part of my sedation but I can’t get rid of it till taper oh..

 

Also, any lexapro & or generic lexapro experience please chime in with specific generic lexapro, dose, how it compared to brand, how long to kick in?

 

Thanks all sorry I’m so needy & selfish right now. Hope your all well xx SC

 

[[NJ...]]

Scardie:

 

Not sure what advice to offer you. I would though try to only change one variable at a time.

 

So first settle on what generic K you will use. I would say just pick one and go with it for a week.

 

Then figure out what to do for an antidepressant. I really liked lexapro but we are all different.

 

I am not sure about how to space out your klonopin. Have you tried dosing less often? I have only ever taken once a day. You are on a much higher dose so it would make sense to take at least twice a day ... does it help to take more often?

 

Good luck and feel better soon.

[[Sc...]]

Scardie:

 

Not sure what advice to offer you. I would though try to only change one variable at a time.

 

So first settle on what generic K you will use. I would say just pick one and go with it for a week.

 

Then figure out what to do for an antidepressant. I really liked lexapro but we are all different.

 

I am not sure about how to space out your klonopin. Have you tried dosing less often? I have only ever taken once a day. You are on a much higher dose so it would make sense to take at least twice a day ... does it help to take more often?

 

Good luck and feel better soon.

Thanks for the input, nj & well for always being there with something to share, even when you don’t have all the answers, your there, thank you! In regard to k pin dosing. I’ve taken it less often in the past, 2 times a day when first started & was also on lexapro brand & then later on took it as needed, but I’ve been like clockwork with it, taking every 6 hours or like at those times shown for at least a year, just to be consistent, I don’t always necessarily feel I need to take each dose, but am scared to alter anything. I would definitely take it at least 2 times per day & @ bed, but I was wondering about if I move that evening dose to on top of ny bed time dose, do people have experience doing that fine & it therefore doesn’t put you into withdrawal as total daily dose hasn’t changed? Like if people have experience with doing something like this, please chime in. K be well, SC

[[Sc...]]

Hi all who are probably not there.

 

So I started on a baby dose of escitalopram last night, 2.5mg, I hate to have to try a p med, but didn’t think it wise to put off any longer, goal is 5mg & no depression.

 

My big question here is about teeth clenching & jaw pain in relation to benzos, k pin specifically, but any benzo experiences with this symptom will do.

 

So I was clenching teeth on actavis plus other withdrawal type sxs so switched to solco about a little over a week ago, I have taken a couple of actavis since the switch trying to see if they were less sedating(I think they may be) I didn’t journal all my sxs since the switch but I started having bad jaw pain yesterday(prior to lexapro)for sure & am clenching my teeth badly again today, like I was on the actavis, think I definitely feel more sedation from solco too.

 

My question is when one crosses over to a different generic  or changes dose & then holds, how long is the teeth clenching jaw pain supposed to last? Days? Weeks? Etc? Is it supposed to be constant? Come & go? Will it settle down? How should one sooth it? It’s quite painful.

 

Thank you! Be well

[[In...]]

Scaredie, I answered on the Teva discontinued group. I think you’ll see it there.

[[Sc...]]

Thanks intend currently 👀 ng for new therapist one I planned on going to is with a group that knows they give them quotas to meet etc private individual may be best I thought think but that’s more research & time before therapy take cars

[[In...]]

Sc,

 

So many things on your plate. I sure hope you can it all taken care of. Sometimes group therapy can be helpful. They let you talk one at a time. Then others off their suggestions. And facilitator offers theirs and asks you questions. It can be very helpful.

[[Sc...]]

Thanks intend,

I’ll certainly consider group therapy, heck I’ll considervanything if I could improve my quality of life. You may have misunderstood me. I meant the therapist I was going to see was with a group. I’ve since found one that works as an individual. Thanks dear

[[In...]]

Your welcome Sc.

 

They both work, but individual can be better.

 

I’ve done both, and like both.

[[Sc...]]

Gotcha, sounds good.

[[Fr...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

[[Sc...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

You might get want to check out the long hold support group although they aren’t all the n k pin good luck

[[In...]]

Just posted my answer in the Teva Discontinued Group.

[[...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

Severn or eight weeks would usually straighten me out

[[...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

Severn or eight weeks would usually straighten me out

I should add I also used Buspar for about two weeks so I’m not sure what really did the trick.

[[Du...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

Severn or eight weeks would usually straighten me out

I should add I also used Buspar for about two weeks so I’m not sure what really did the trick.

 

Hey bob did you have any side effects with BuSpar? What made you stop taking it, was it hard to come off of? Thanks

[[...]]

Could any if you let me know how long you held tomadjust tonthe manufacturer change? My taper was going well before I had to switch. I held three weeks without really feeling better. I don’t really stabilize but I so much worse trying to cut and it just isn’t possible. How long did you hold when switching brands?

Severn or eight weeks would usually straighten me out

I should add I also used Buspar for about two weeks so I’m not sure what really did the trick.

 

Hey bob did you have any side effects with BuSpar? What made you stop taking it, was it hard to come off of? Thanks

No addiction problems with Buspar-I’ve started and stopped it many times.

 

I only use it when my withdrawal symptoms get really bad-I use it so I can keep my taper going without having to hold.

 

As for side effects I wouldn’t say there are a problem. I take it in the morning and within 30 minutes or so you get kind of a dizzy high but it’s not uncomfortable. It goes away in a couple hours and the rest the day your anxiety levels are really low. It helped me get past the chest pains and back pains  from benzo withdrawal. Once my withdrawal symptoms go away I simply stop taking it.

 

Many people say it’s worthless but I think they were expecting too much out of it. Like I said I only use it to take the edge off of my withdrawal symptoms so I can maintain my taper.

[[Un...]]

That’s really interesting, Bob.  Very cool Buspar helped you manage to get through when WD sxs were too bad, so you didn’t have to hold.  I’m 9 days into a hold and feel so frustrated by this feeling of being backed into a corner.  Sxs aren’t letting up.  They came on after a very triggering day where I was in major fight or flight.  Seems I spiraled since then.  I’ve tried Buspar decades ago but don’t recall why I stopped after two days.  Thanks for sharing what worked for you, I may look into this as well.  Hate having to hold...

[[...]]

That’s really interesting, Bob.  Very cool Buspar helped you manage to get through when WD sxs were too bad, so you didn’t have to hold.  I’m 9 days into a hold and feel so frustrated by this feeling of being backed into a corner.  Sxs aren’t letting up.  They came on after a very triggering day where I was in major fight or flight.  Seems I spiraled since then.  I’ve tried Buspar decades ago but don’t recall why I stopped after two days.  Thanks for sharing what worked for you, I may look into this as well.  Hate having to hold...

Well I’m five days away from being at zero Klonopin. I don’t think I could’ve done it this quickly without the Buspar - but I can’t be certain because I’ve only tried it twice and perhaps the symptoms just went away on their own each time and I thought it was Buspar.  It’s hard to correlate things when you feel rotten.

[[Un...]]

That’s really interesting, Bob.  Very cool Buspar helped you manage to get through when WD sxs were too bad, so you didn’t have to hold.  I’m 9 days into a hold and feel so frustrated by this feeling of being backed into a corner.  Sxs aren’t letting up.  They came on after a very triggering day where I was in major fight or flight.  Seems I spiraled since then.  I’ve tried Buspar decades ago but don’t recall why I stopped after two days.  Thanks for sharing what worked for you, I may look into this as well.  Hate having to hold...

Well I’m five days away from being at zero Klonopin. I don’t think I could’ve done it this quickly without the Buspar - but I can’t be certain because I’ve only tried it twice and perhaps the symptoms just went away on their own each time and I thought it was Buspar.  It’s hard to correlate things when you feel rotten.

 

Amen to that!  It really is soooo hard to know what’s what.  Whatever the case, you’ve made it to the homestretch and I’m so happy for you!  Five days away, wow - what an inspiration.  I can only imagine how good it feels to be that close.  Bravo, Bob