The Klonopin Klub#2

[[NJ...]]

Hope you slept better last night Final.

 

I did sleep NJS and it was on a lesser night time dose.  Of course I was so exhausted that I'm sure it helped.  Will hold with the doses I have right now till the end of August.  They are uneven but not the way they were and I can work on evening them out when I start to taper again.

 

How are how you doing?

 

I had a really good day. Slept well last night. Only very mild nausea, which I unfortunately continue to have despite my updoses and hold. Had dinner with a friend. Also starting to clean out our home office to prepare for working from home. It's rare that I have a really really "normal" day. I am grateful. Hope I sleep well tonight!

[[Fi...]]

I thought I posted a respond to you NJS but I guess it didnt save.

 

I'm glad you slept a couple of nights ago.  I slept last night, which was good.  Still waking with anxiety and it's so awful but I know it's from the wd and my nervous system.

 

I have mostly felt blah the past couple of days. I usually cry a least once a day about being stuck on this benzo but I haven't been to horrible. 

 

Going to restart my taper at the end of the week. 

 

I hope this support thread stays active as I could use it and want to offer my own support as well.

[[NJ...]]

Morning are usually the worst time with high cortisol. The old Klonopin Klub was very active; it's a shame more people are on here as there are a lot of us on K!

[[In...]]

NJ,

 

That’s the truth if I ever heard it.  The old KKKlub #1 was was extremely active. I went there all the time.

 

If fact, I think it was the active support group on BB at one point.

[[Fi...]]

I hope we can keep this thread going.

 

The interesting thing is my cortisol is low in the morning (has a 4pt saliva test)  I used to have horrible surges but they have subsided since I've doing adrenal cocktails.  But yes, now its just the regular old withdrawal cortisol jolt I have has throughout allu other tapers.  I see that it leaves for many people when they get off and I'm really hoping for that.

 

I'll keep posting as I go along.

[[In...]]

Had vaguely remembered those adrenal cocktails.

 

Had to go to google to see the recipe. Never have tried one, but I sure know about those morning cortisol surges.

[[Fi...]]

They have really helped with the surging but not the overall anxiety state.  I'll take what I can get! 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

Had an actual window last night and even though I didn't sleep well and woke with a stomach ache, the window has held.  When I say window, it's a step up from blah.

 

I will hold another few days and then start micro tapering.

 

I just want to keep moving forward and hope I can do it.

[[NJ...]]

Final,

 

Glad you had a window. Hopefully your day improved as it went on. I know tummy troubles are no fun.

[[Fi...]]

Final,

 

Glad you had a window. Hopefully your day improved as it went on. I know tummy troubles are no fun.

 

Thank you NJS,

 

My window held for awhile but I do get hit with sadness about being on this medication.  My life has been halted for 9 now going on 10 months due to a previous withdrawal and now this one.  I lost my business and am not well enough to be out in the world all the time.  Its gotten a little better but I havent crossed into feeling well enough yet.

 

Yeah, I have had stomach issues with this benzo taper.  A low grade nausea or stomach tension daily but sometimes a bad stomach ache when I wake up. 

[[Mo...]]

Final,

Can you tell me about the adrenal cocktails?  Is that the Cream of Tarter, with orange juice, etc?  I am SO sensitive to vitamins, etc, right now so not sure......but am interested.

[[Fi...]]

Final,

Can you tell me about the adrenal cocktails?  Is that the Cream of Tarter, with orange juice, etc?  I am SO sensitive to vitamins, etc, right now so not sure......but am interested.

 

Yes, it  is.  I use 1/4 of oj ( no sugar), 1/4 teaspoon cream of tartar,  1/4 teaspoon of sea salt.  I drink it twice a day. 

 

I am very sensitive too and react to many supplments.

I started with 1 adrenal cocktail for a few days and then increased it.  I was so pleased that the surges stopped in the morning.  As I said, I still have the morning jolt of anxiety but not wave after wave of adrenaline. 

 

If you try them, let me know how it goes.

[[NJ...]]

Final,

 

Glad you had a window. Hopefully your day improved as it went on. I know tummy troubles are no fun.

 

Thank you NJS,

 

My window held for awhile but I do get hit with sadness about being on this medication.  My life has been halted for 9 now going on 10 months due to a previous withdrawal and now this one.  I lost my business and am not well enough to be out in the world all the time.  Its gotten a little better but I havent crossed into feeling well enough yet.

 

Yeah, I have had stomach issues with this benzo taper.  A low grade nausea or stomach tension daily but sometimes a bad stomach ache when I wake up.

 

It looks like you have overlapping tapers, were you tapering two drugs at once? I am just wondering if you held to give yourself time to rest, if that would help. Of course, I know some feel they have no choice to just get off ASAP. I don't fall into that camp just as I cannot seem to find my way through the best way to taper, I am mostly waiting for some things in life to settle and menopause to be done.

[[Fi...]]

No, didn't taper these two medications at once.  I jumped off a majority of Lamictal in November 2018 and had a tiny resinstmament of about 0.020 tenths of dose, which dropped down to 0 in early February 2019.  I then started tapering the Clonzapam at the end of March 2019.  So there was a 5 month gap between the bulk of my jump off Lamictal and this taper. 

 

I've also had different Lyme treatments this year, which have affected me. Have put that aside till I get off this benzo. I tapering very slowly at this time.

[[NJ...]]

Final,

 

That's a lot to deal with, especially with the Lyme. Is it safe to postpone treatment for that? I don't know anything about it other than that my sister just got it, was put on antibiotics immediately.

 

Hope you are feeling okay today.

[[Fi...]]

Hi NJS,

 

I did treat my Lyme when I was initially bit in 2015 with antibiotics.  Had not issues.  Then when I got sick from my Lamictal withdrawal,  I had symtoms similar to Lyme.  I treated the Lyne with powerful Chines herbs and homeopathy.  My Lyme doctor, and a nautropath dont think I have it.  A holistic practitioner tested my hair and nails and said my levels were very low.  Yet, another practitioner said I did.  It's very confusing and was driving me crazy.

 

I had to make a choice on whether to get off of Clonzapam or continuing treating Lyme.  I chose the benzo because it has made me so upset to be on it and it sedated the functioning of the central nervous system. I can't stand being on it as it crushes my spirit.  So I will try to get off of it and if Lyme issues come up, I will go back to them. 

[[NJ...]]

That makes sense, FH! Didn't realize the Lyme diagnosis was so long ago!

[[no...]]

Just encouragement for those still tapering. I'm on my final dose of clonazepam. 0.005mg 3 times a day, total 0.015mg a day. Will be off in two weeks. As I've been cut/holding .03mg at a time expect the final .015mg drop at half that to be gentle. The last several months have been easier with my stomach symptoms letting up.

 

[[Fi...]]

Just encouragement for those still tapering. I'm on my final dose of clonazepam. 0.005mg 3 times a day, total 0.015mg a day. Will be off in two weeks. As I've been cut/holding .03mg at a time expect the final .015mg drop at half that to be gentle. The last several months have been easier with my stomach symptoms letting up.

 

Congratulations on your progress and soon to be step off.  It is encouraging to hear that you are doing well.

 

In addition to the stomach issues easing (I have them too)  did you notice anything else getting easier as you went down?

 

Great job on staying the course!

[[Mo...]]

Libertas,

I looked back at messages and saw that you prefer the PAR ODTs to TEVA due to less artificial sweetener.  I am due to have the pharmacy order more ODTs for me - trying to decide if it's wise to do a switch since I'm tolerating the TEVA ok, though I do notice that there may be an ingredient in there that's irritating/drying to my esophagus, not sure.  And my skin a little more itchy, which is likely not related but who knows.  Don't want to mess with my CNS much more and risk an updose/downdose either.  You are sensitive to changes, other meds and supplements, however, right?  Thoughts?

 

With the PARS, they are less crumbly, if I recall?  Do you think the tablet is about the same size as TEVA?  Unfortunately, I can't do a DLMT, which shows how sensitive I truly am, maybe more than you, since you seem to tolerate ok?  Anyhow, just thinking long term solutions here and what may be best.  Also, looking at where they are manufactured, which you had listed in another post, the PAR was from Ireland and TEVA from Israel. 

 

Also, does anyone know, should the med be pulverized to get an even distribution, versus cutting?  Is it likely that the med is fairly evenly distributed throughout the pill?  I would think pretty close but I'm not sure if this has been debated much - I've seen the posts on Youtube about people using the mortar/pestle and I assume they maybe have good reasons but is it to even out multiple pills at one time, since there could be a pill to pill variation?  It's hard when you are so sensitive that you have to think about these things - I was not quite as sensitive like this before but it is what it is.....

 

Teva Clonazepam ODT 0.5 mg

ASPARTAME (UNII: Z0H242BBR1)   

SILICON DIOXIDE (UNII: ETJ7Z6XBU4)   

CROSPOVIDONE (15 MPA.S AT 5%) (UNII: 68401960MK)   

MAGNESIUM STEARATE (UNII: 70097M6I30)   

MANNITOL (UNII: 3OWL53L36A)   

CELLULOSE, MICROCRYSTALLINE (UNII: OP1R32D61U)   

SODIUM STEARYL FUMARATE (UNII: 7CV7WJK4UI)   

XYLITOL (UNII: VCQ006KQ1E)

 

Par Clonazepam ODT 0.5mg

ASPARTAME (UNII: Z0H242BBR1)   

CROSPOVIDONE (UNII: 2S7830E561)   

MAGNESIUM STEARATE (UNII: 70097M6I30)   

MANNITOL (UNII: 3OWL53L36A)   

SILICON DIOXIDE (UNII: ETJ7Z6XBU4)   

SORBITOL (UNII: 506T60A25R)   

SODIUM LAURYL SULFATE (UNII: 368GB5141J)   

TALC (UNII: 7SEV7J4R1U)

[[Li...]]

Greetings, Mof7.

 

Let me begin by recognizing and congratulating you on the systematic, informed, and thoughtful approach you are taking to your withdrawal from clonazepam.  It’s clear you have devoted considerable time and effort to educating yourself about this topic.

 

Here’s what I can tell you about my limited experience with Teva versus Par ODTs (I only used them for about a month each before switching to DLMT with regular tablets).

 

First, both the Teva and the Par ODTs worked AOK for me. Second, I did indeed prefer the Pars.  Not only b/c they had less aspartame but also b/c I was not keen on the taste of the Tevas (a yucky-to-me strawberry flavor).  Third, the Tevas were larger and more wafer-like than the Pars.  I tried cutting the Tevas one time and did not get a good result (I did not try cutting the Pars).  Fourth, neither the Tevas nor the Pars are scored. My understanding is that this means that if you cut them in half, there is no guarantee that the active pharmaceutical ingredient will be equally distributed in the two resulting pieces.

 

Re: where the Teva or the Par ODTs are currently being manufactured ... there is no way to know.  My understanding is that the location of where a particular drug is manufactured is a trade secret at least in the U.S.  So, although Teva’s worldwide headquarters are indeed located in Israel and Par’s are in Ireland, both are global companies that have manufacturing plants all over the world.

 

I have no experience wth using ODTs for a direct taper so can’t address your other questions.  What I can offer is the name of a Buddie who, according to her posts, has experience with dry-cutting the Par ODTs.  Her screen name is “wavesontheshore” (as I suspect you already know, you can find her posts by selecting “Members” from the top-level navigation bar and using the search function).

 

I hope I have been able to help you in some small way.  Regards and best wishes, L

 

Edit: corrected typo

 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Thanks Libertas for the info - I was under the impression you were still on the ODTs and doing a DLMT from them.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

Yes, been a bit concerned about distribution of K in the ODT since it's not meant to be broken but the only option would be to powderize and weigh - we are considering it. 

 

Unfortunately, there's been no choice for me but to try and figure things out as I'm in a pretty bad way and have been getting worse, while holding this dose - I've tried several things, many of which have not worked out.....DLMT, trying Valium to see if I could do a C/O, etc.  So now, it just seems as if it's a matter of getting off as quickly/safely as possible for me at age 41 since I'm in such severe tolerance (very symptomatic).  If I were sure I would not grow tolerant to an updose, and that I could regain my health, etc, I would do it but I don't believe that would be the case.  Enough with that.....many are struggling and we all must try to find our own paths forward. 

 

Blessings.....

[[Li...]]

.....many are struggling and we all must try to find our own paths forward. 

Well said, Mof7! I hope you find your path forward soon. L

[[Fi...]]

Thanks Libertas for the info - I was under the impression you were still on the ODTs and doing a DLMT from them.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

Yes, been a bit concerned about distribution of K in the ODT since it's not meant to be broken but the only option would be to powderize and weigh - we are considering it. 

 

Unfortunately, there's been no choice for me but to try and figure things out as I'm in a pretty bad way and have been getting worse, while holding this dose - I've tried several things, many of which have not worked out.....DLMT, trying Valium to see if I could do a C/O, etc.  So now, it just seems as if it's a matter of getting off as quickly/safely as possible for me at age 41 since I'm in such severe tolerance (very symptomatic).  If I were sure I would not grow tolerant to an updose, and that I could regain my health, etc, I would do it but I don't believe that would be the case.  Enough with that.....many are struggling and we all must try to find our own paths forward. 

 

Blessings.....

 

Hi  MMO7,

 

I wanted to offer my empathy to your situation.  I understand the great sensitivity you are feeling in reaction to Clonzapam.  I have it too.  I think having been on other medications made my nervous system so sensitive and I feel every cut.

 

I'm dry cutting regular tablets and while I have heard of the issue of medication distribution, it was pointed out to me that Bulider, an established member on this site, says that consistency in cutting, as opposed to accuracy in measurement, is most important in tapering.  I'm choosing to believe him.

 

I do know someone on another site who is crushing their regular pills with a mortar and pestle. They then just swallow the powder though I know other people put it in capsules. 

 

Have you posted about crushing the ODT on the main taper site?

 

FH

 

[[Fi...]]

I'm having a tough day today probably due to making  three micro cuts in a row.  I'm holding today but feel a lot of depression and sadness. 

 

Last night I had about 3 hours in the evening where I felt normal and then I didnt sleep well.  I always get scared with the depression because I fear its who I really am and that I can't heal after being pollydrugged drugged for 4 years. 

 

Had accupuntire today and cried on the table. Just this overall feeling of life passing me by.  I have a ways to go to get off this medication and I hope I can. 

 

FH