Please Assistance Needed in Recalculation of Taper / Thank you!

[[...]]

Hi SG.....I need your help desperately please.......in the next few days I will have officially reached my 5 percent reduction over 30 days from 1mg kolonopin (generic) by pulling 17 ml additionally everyday from a batch of (2) .50 k pills and 100 ml milk... I have a few questions in how to proceed:

 

1). Very very stupid question... But the 5 percent reduction now means that I have reduced now from 1 mg to .95 mg?

 

Correct.  You discarded .17ml (.0017mg) a day for 30 days.  That's 5% and your dose is now .95mg.  Good job getting this far.  That's a nice slow rate.

 

2) I am extremely symptomatic still from the ativan withdrawal and do not believe the k will help this anymore then it has . I am terrified. very physical symptoms and severe akasthisia and depression too.....don't know how to keep going.....

 

What happened over the last month?  Did symptoms increase, decrease, remain unchanged?

 

3) was looking to see how to recalculate taper again.....very hard to determine cut rate as very symptomatic to begin with.... gave it almost 4 months before I even started reducing....the pill just makes me feel horrible mentally.... When it wears off I feel better.... Has kept some physical things in check...some the same... and gave me new ones.....  was thinking of increasing  between 6 to 7 percent Over the next month....scared not sure what to do....

 

You are describing pretty severe symptoms.  I'm wondering if you should even cut at all.  If 5% was at least keeping them even I'd stick with that.  If you have a cut that does not make things worse, that's a good thing!  Remember, the goal is to trend toward feeling well, not getting off.  Getting off will come.  We need to get current symptoms to fade.

 

My thoughts are I'm paradoxical and maybe reducing more will make me feel better or if its possible make me feel worse.... Any thoughts suggestions on what you think would be the best approach?

 

I don't know why taking the drug makes you feel worse.  Regardless, I think you are forced to march to the withdrawal drum.

 

thank you kindly.......

 

You're welcome.

[[Pl...]]

Hi SG.....I need your help desperately please.......in the next few days I will have officially reached my 5 percent reduction over 30 days from 1mg kolonopin (generic) by pulling 17 ml additionally everyday from a batch of (2) .50 k pills and 100 ml milk... I have a few questions in how to proceed:

 

1). Very very stupid question... But the 5 percent reduction now means that I have reduced now from 1 mg to .95 mg?

 

Correct.  You discarded .17ml (.0017mg) a day for 30 days.  That's 5% and your dose is now .95mg.  Good job getting this far.  That's a nice slow rate.

 

2) I am extremely symptomatic still from the ativan withdrawal and do not believe the k will help this anymore then it has . I am terrified. very physical symptoms and severe akasthisia and depression too.....don't know how to keep going.....

 

What happened over the last month?  Did symptoms increase, decrease, remain unchanged?

 

3) was looking to see how to recalculate taper again.....very hard to determine cut rate as very symptomatic to begin with.... gave it almost 4 months before I even started reducing....the pill just makes me feel horrible mentally.... When it wears off I feel better.... Has kept some physical things in check...some the same... and gave me new ones.....  was thinking of increasing  between 6 to 7 percent Over the next month....scared not sure what to do....

 

You are describing pretty severe symptoms.  I'm wondering if you should even cut at all.  If 5% was at least keeping them even I'd stick with that.  If you have a cut that does not make things worse, that's a good thing!  Remember, the goal is to trend toward feeling well, not getting off.  Getting off will come.  We need to get current symptoms to fade.

 

My thoughts are I'm paradoxical and maybe reducing more will make me feel better or if its possible make me feel worse.... Any thoughts suggestions on what you think would be the best approach?

 

I don't know why taking the drug makes you feel worse.  Regardless, I think you are forced to march to the withdrawal drum.

 

thank you kindly.......

 

You're welcome.

 

SG...thank you dearly for your response....

 

To answer your questions all my symptoms from the ativan withdrawal are still always ever present.... But they rotate in cycles and are always there.... this includes the duration, frequency and intensity.... it always varies... Sometimes only a few symptoms are worse sometimes all of them...One day may be worse then another then go back to a baseline... Not linear in anyway... I know very confusing.... To me as well....

 

when I have my monthly cycle it is more horrific then it already is... Right now my face twitching spasms eyes and forehead squeezing and jaw are beyond severe... I have been housebound for 14 months because of this nightmare... all over body Tremors vibrating head swaying dizziness extreme fatigue legs not moving properly .... You get the picture....and so much more.... These mostly have perhaps stayed more or less the same except for those days in between its not....

 

Like you said I'm just trying not to escalate them.... that's all I can do.... I'm in so much terror and fear that I am permanently damaged.....I am afraid this cannot get better while on the drug.... Then years after awhile off.... Ill never survive this if that's the case....

 

The reason the kolonopin makes me feel bad I believe is because of the dosage... 1 mg is way too strong for me..... I could barely handle 1 mg ativan to put it into perspective.....this is another error I made as I so much wanted to calm my  symptoms.....my physical symptoms and the extreme anxiety they were and are still causing me.... Torture...

 

It makes me feel like I am in a zombie like trance and it scares me greatly..... I was so stupid for not realizing this...

 

what decreased are my involuntary all over body contractions....also,  Just recently for only a couple moments the dizzy and head swaying....but all the movements went to my face full force....

 

New symptoms.... Muscle burning and bone pain.....horrible nightmares....I have been extremely traumatized....

 

I do feel better mentally with more clarity from reducing but nowhere where I need to be... I believe my fear of the drug and the stories on here escalate all of this greatly...

 

Im so sorry for the long story....I just feel like your someone who has great empathy for others on here and I'm hurting so much just like everyone else on here....

 

My question is if I choose to reduce another 5 percent for the next 30 days from .95 how do I recalculate that and do that going forward...do you think going up just one more percent at 6 percent is pushing it? this Friday I will be taking out my last 5.1ml to reach that .95 mg....

 

I hope and pray is it possible when you go slow although symptomatic if its really possible some of these can drop off.... I just feel hopelessness.....

 

Thank you SG....((((.    )))))

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Hi SG.....I need your help desperately please.......in the next few days I will have officially reached my 5 percent reduction over 30 days from 1mg kolonopin (generic) by pulling 17 ml additionally everyday from a batch of (2) .50 k pills and 100 ml milk... I have a few questions in how to proceed:

 

1). Very very stupid question... But the 5 percent reduction now means that I have reduced now from 1 mg to .95 mg?

 

Correct.  You discarded .17ml (.0017mg) a day for 30 days.  That's 5% and your dose is now .95mg.  Good job getting this far.  That's a nice slow rate.

 

2) I am extremely symptomatic still from the ativan withdrawal and do not believe the k will help this anymore then it has . I am terrified. very physical symptoms and severe akasthisia and depression too.....don't know how to keep going.....

 

What happened over the last month?  Did symptoms increase, decrease, remain unchanged?

 

3) was looking to see how to recalculate taper again.....very hard to determine cut rate as very symptomatic to begin with.... gave it almost 4 months before I even started reducing....the pill just makes me feel horrible mentally.... When it wears off I feel better.... Has kept some physical things in check...some the same... and gave me new ones.....  was thinking of increasing  between 6 to 7 percent Over the next month....scared not sure what to do....

 

You are describing pretty severe symptoms.  I'm wondering if you should even cut at all.  If 5% was at least keeping them even I'd stick with that.  If you have a cut that does not make things worse, that's a good thing!  Remember, the goal is to trend toward feeling well, not getting off.  Getting off will come.  We need to get current symptoms to fade.

 

My thoughts are I'm paradoxical and maybe reducing more will make me feel better or if its possible make me feel worse.... Any thoughts suggestions on what you think would be the best approach?

 

I don't know why taking the drug makes you feel worse.  Regardless, I think you are forced to march to the withdrawal drum.

 

thank you kindly.......

 

You're welcome.

 

SG...thank you dearly for your response....

 

To answer your questions all my symptoms from the ativan withdrawal are still always ever present.... But they rotate in cycles and are always there.... this includes the duration, frequency and intensity.... it always varies... Sometimes only a few symptoms are worse sometimes all of them...One day may be worse then another then go back to a baseline... Not linear in anyway... I know very confusing.... To me as well....

 

when I have my monthly cycle it is more horrific then it already is... Right now my face twitching spasms eyes and forehead squeezing and jaw are beyond severe... I have been housebound for 14 months because of this nightmare... all over body Tremors vibrating head swaying dizziness extreme fatigue legs not moving properly .... You get the picture....and so much more.... These mostly have perhaps stayed more or less the same except for those days in between its not....

 

Like you said I'm just trying not to escalate them.... that's all I can do.... I'm in so much terror and fear that I am permanently damaged.....I am afraid this cannot get better while on the drug.... Then years after awhile off.... Ill never survive this if that's the case....

 

The reason the kolonopin makes me feel bad I believe is because of the dosage... 1 mg is way too strong for me..... I could barely handle 1 mg ativan to put it into perspective.....this is another error I made as I so much wanted to calm my  symptoms.....my physical symptoms and the extreme anxiety they were and are still causing me.... Torture...

 

It makes me feel like I am in a zombie like trance and it scares me greatly..... I was so stupid for not realizing this...

 

what decreased are my involuntary all over body contractions....also,  Just recently for only a couple moments the dizzy and head swaying....but all the movements went to my face full force....

 

New symptoms.... Muscle burning and bone pain.....horrible nightmares....I have been extremely traumatized....

 

I do feel better mentally with more clarity from reducing but nowhere where I need to be... I believe my fear of the drug and the stories on here escalate all of this greatly...

 

Im so sorry for the long story....I just feel like your someone who has great empathy for others on here and I'm hurting so much just like everyone else on here....

 

My question is if I choose to reduce another 5 percent for the next 30 days from .95 how do I recalculate that and do that going forward...do you think going up just one more percent at 6 percent is pushing it? this Friday I will be taking out my last 5.1ml to reach that .95 mg....

 

I hope and pray is it possible when you go slow although symptomatic if its really possible some of these can drop off.... I just feel hopelessness.....

 

Thank you SG....((((.    )))))

 

I think it is very important to try to discern what is going on with your symptoms OVERALL.  Are they going up, down or are they level?  Are you better off, worse off, or the same now than you were a month ago OVERALL?  I know this can be hard to figure out when you are entrenched with heavy symptoms.  I've been there.  I can't really tell what is going on from what you described, but it's only been a month.  There is some indication they may be decreasing, but you also mentioned new ones.  I think as long as things are not getting worse then cutting is okay.  One month is not a lot of time, but I would think in the next month or two you would notice symptom decrease if it were happening.  It can take a long time to get them to fade, just as with holding.

 

I would resist the temptation to increase your cut.  The goal is to feel better as you go.  What I would do is either stick with this cut or adjust it down to make the new cut equivalent to the past month.  In other words, 5% of .95mg instead of 5% of 1mg.  That would be a .0016mg (.16ml) daily cut instead of .17ml.  If you stay with .17ml that would be 5.4% for the month...not a big difference.  But, with the symptoms your describe, I would not risk taxing you nervous system and pushing the edge of what it can handle.  Keep it slow and gentle and watch for signs of fading over the next month.

[[Pl...]]

Yes.... You got me completely.....that's why you are so invaluable 

 

I agree with you.....it is very hard to see what is going on overall... so many variables and up and down symptoms....dealing with a prior ativan withdrawal, going thru another one, menstrual cycle ramping things up, and I forgot to mention I had a cold, too and stress....

 

I also agree with your logic completely...... Since it is my first month reducing the next couple of months will perhaps reveal what I can really do as far as symptoms are concerned.....

 

You're right I'm not going to increase to 6 percent....

 

Okay this is the part I need your major help in clarifying.... I still want to stay at the reduction at the 5 percent cut rate over 30 days with the goal of reaching .90 mg ..I'm just still confused on how to do that on what you said.....

 

.is that what you meant when you said i could reduce 5 percent from the .95 to do this? You said to do this I would pull 16 ml additionally everyday but I'm confused because I thought the lower you go in reducing I would pull more? Do I have this backwards?

 

Basically out of the two choices you gave me will I still reduce down to .90 mg? 

 

Sorry still such a learning process for me and thank you for your patience....

 

 

[[...]]

Yes.... You got me completely.....that's why you are so invaluable 

 

I agree with you.....it is very hard to see what is going on overall... so many variables and up and down symptoms....dealing with a prior ativan withdrawal, going thru another one, menstrual cycle ramping things up, and I forgot to mention I had a cold, too and stress....

 

I also agree with your logic completely...... Since it is my first month reducing the next couple of months will perhaps reveal what I can really do as far as symptoms are concerned.....

 

You're right I'm not going to increase to 6 percent....

 

Okay this is the part I need your major help in clarifying.... I still want to stay at the reduction at the 5 percent cut rate over 30 days with the goal of reaching .90 mg ..I'm just still confused on how to do that on what you said.....

 

.is that what you meant when you said i could reduce 5 percent from the .95 to do this? You said to do this I would pull 16 ml additionally everyday but I'm confused because I thought the lower you go in reducing I would pull more? Do I have this backwards?

 

Basically out of the two choices you gave me will I still reduce down to .90 mg? 

 

Sorry still such a learning process for me and thank you for your patience....

 

If you keep the same cut it will be 5.4% over the next 30 days.  That's fine.  No need to split hairs.  You can just stick with this cut for another month.  If you wanted exactly 5% you'd switch to .16ml instead of .17ml to remove slightly less, but there really is very little difference.  Not enough to be concerned with.  No matter what, after 30 days you'll be at about .9mg.

[[Pl...]]

Okay..... Thank you! Alright this is the next part I need help with since I'm still new at this and doing my second month .....

 

1). Is this how it works? On day 30 I will be pulling 5.1 ml and then do I just keep pulling the additional .17 ml added on to that? On Day 30 I end up pulling 10.20ml?  Such as:

 

Day 1: 5.27ml

Day 2: 5.44 ml

Day 3: 5.61

Day 4: 5.78

Day 5: 5.95

Day 6: 6.12

Day 7: 6.29

"      "

"      "

Day 30:  10.20

 

I'm probably way off base and i know i really look like a moron but i don't know what I'm doing .......I forgot mathematically how to reconfigure this..... yes I'm that bad ....  . Embarrassing as all can be...

 

2).  Do I still use the same ratio of (2) separate 50 mg. pills dissolved in 100 ml milk?

 

my gratitude.....

 

Sorry SG when I see the math in front of me I understand it better....and sorry for writing it all out....

[[...]]

Okay..... Thank you! Alright this is the next part I need help with since I'm still new at this and doing my second month .....

 

1). Is this how it works? On day 30 I will be pulling 5.1 ml and then do I just keep pulling the additional .17 ml added on to that? On Day 30 I end up pulling 10.20ml?  Such as:

 

Day 1: 5.27ml

Day 2: 5.44 ml

Day 3: 5.61

Day 4: 5.78

Day 5: 5.95

Day 6: 6.12

Day 7: 6.29

"      "

"      "

Day 30:  10.20

 

I'm probably way off base and i know i really look like a moron but i don't know what I'm doing .......I forgot mathematically how to reconfigure this..... yes I'm that bad ....  . Embarrassing as all can be...

 

2).  Do I still use the same ratio of (2) separate 50 mg. pills dissolved in 100 ml milk?

 

my gratitude.....

 

Sorry SG when I see the math in front of me I understand it better....and sorry for writing it all out....

 

1.  That's right on target.  You've been tossing .17ml a day so after 60 days you will have tossed 10.2ml.  You understand fine.

 

2.  Yes, 1mg into 100ml.  Keep that the same.

[[Pl...]]

Okay...... If at any point in time i wish to scale it back to .16 could i do so since i would still be arriving at the same goal?    Thank you thank you so much SG for all your wonderful help....truly and sincerely...

.  ((((.        )))))

[[...]]

Okay...... If at any point in time i wish to scale it back to .16 could i do so since i would still be arriving at the same goal?    Thank you thank you so much SG for all your wonderful help....truly and sincerely...

.  ((((.        )))))

 

Sure.  You could go to any lower cut on any day, or even hold.  Cut based on how you feel.

[[Pl...]]

Thank you so much! ((((.      ))))

[[Pl...]]

Dearest SG..... I have to ask your advice please.... since I started reducing this past month and almost making it to the finish line (which would be tomorrow for the first 5 percent).....yesterday was actually about 25 to 30 percent decrease in symptoms.... I couldn't believe it.....some actually stopped.... I felt semi human.... Nowhere near where I should be but I noticed it...;;

 

Today they all increased severely..... I just don't understand.......severe shortness of breath... Couldn't speak and breathe at the same time.... inner vibrations..... Tremors in legs arms... dizziness.... Severe facial contortions and tics and spasms in jaw mouth everywhere ... torture! 

 

I believe its obvious I should hold.....I just don't understand the pattern.....I get this fear that holding creates more of a dependence....I saw the long hold thread....

 

Why would I feel that decrease in symptoms so far towards the end and then the next day the opposite..... I would think this would be more apparent earlier on..... I guess I'm just trying to see if this is normal.... actually nothing about this whole thing is normal....don't expect you to know but sometimes people have insight that you may not know....and I trust your instincts and logic...

 

Thank you dearly and kindly...

[[...]]

Dearest SG..... I have to ask your advice please.... since I started reducing this past month and almost making it to the finish line (which would be tomorrow for the first 5 percent).....yesterday was actually about 25 to 30 percent decrease in symptoms.... I couldn't believe it.....some actually stopped.... I felt semi human.... Nowhere near where I should be but I noticed it...;;

 

Today they all increased severely..... I just don't understand.......severe shortness of breath... Couldn't speak and breathe at the same time.... inner vibrations..... Tremors in legs arms... dizziness.... Severe facial contortions and tics and spasms in jaw mouth everywhere ... torture! 

 

I believe its obvious I should hold.....I just don't understand the pattern.....I get this fear that holding creates more of a dependence....I saw the long hold thread....

 

Why would I feel that decrease in symptoms so far towards the end and then the next day the opposite..... I would think this would be more apparent earlier on..... I guess I'm just trying to see if this is normal.... actually nothing about this whole thing is normal....don't expect you to know but sometimes people have insight that you may not know....and I trust your instincts and logic...

 

Thank you dearly and kindly...

 

I'm so glad you got a break yesterday.  I'd be cautiously encouraged by the lessening of symptoms.  This is the way they are.  They come and go.  Some days are better, some are worse.  Try to focus on the overall trend if you can.  And follow what your body tells you.  Hold if you feel the need.  Holding is a good thing.

[[Pl...]]

Dearest SG..... I have to ask your advice please.... since I started reducing this past month and almost making it to the finish line (which would be tomorrow for the first 5 percent).....yesterday was actually about 25 to 30 percent decrease in symptoms.... I couldn't believe it.....some actually stopped.... I felt semi human.... Nowhere near where I should be but I noticed it...;;

 

Today they all increased severely..... I just don't understand.......severe shortness of breath... Couldn't speak and breathe at the same time.... inner vibrations..... Tremors in legs arms... dizziness.... Severe facial contortions and tics and spasms in jaw mouth everywhere ... torture! 

 

I believe its obvious I should hold.....I just don't understand the pattern.....I get this fear that holding creates more of a dependence....I saw the long hold thread....

 

Why would I feel that decrease in symptoms so far towards the end and then the next day the opposite..... I would think this would be more apparent earlier on..... I guess I'm just trying to see if this is normal.... actually nothing about this whole thing is normal....don't expect you to know but sometimes people have insight that you may not know....and I trust your instincts and logic...

 

Thank you dearly and kindly...

 

I'm so glad you got a break yesterday.  I'd be cautiously encouraged by the lessening of symptoms.  This is the way they are.  They come and go.  Some days are better, some are worse.  Try to focus on the overall trend if you can.  And follow what your body tells you.  Hold if you feel the need.  Holding is a good thing.

 

Dearest SG... sorry for my delay in response in thanking you .... I have been trying to regroup this past week and have been holding at 4.93ml for 7 days now......

 

I've noticed this past week my symptoms alternate in intensity and duration every other day..... Not sure how to proceed ... I'm starting to think 5 percent is too much... Not sure yet but its looking that way....still trying to find my rate...... I was going to make that last pull of 5.10 ml soon and then wait 4 or 5 days or so to see what happens?

 

Also wanted your opinion on something.... I did a test of 4 ml pulls on the 1 ml syringe and the 10 ml syringe (which has five lines between each number) and I noticed the 10 ml barrel pulls out a little more ....just slightly.... not a lot but I did see the difference (maybe equal to a bit of a small squirt?)  do you think this is still okay to use?

 

Thanks for the input ((((.      )))) trying so hard to get thru this ....I'm so spent and scared ( an understatement)

[[...]]

 

I'm so glad you got a break yesterday.  I'd be cautiously encouraged by the lessening of symptoms.  This is the way they are.  They come and go.  Some days are better, some are worse.  Try to focus on the overall trend if you can.  And follow what your body tells you.  Hold if you feel the need.  Holding is a good thing.

 

Dearest SG... sorry for my delay in response in thanking you .... I have been trying to regroup this past week and have been holding at 4.93ml for 7 days now......

 

I've noticed this past week my symptoms alternate in intensity and duration every other day..... Not sure how to proceed ... I'm starting to think 5 percent is too much... Not sure yet but its looking that way....still trying to find my rate...... I was going to make that last pull of 5.10 ml soon and then wait 4 or 5 days or so to see what happens?

 

Also wanted your opinion on something.... I did a test of 4 ml pulls on the 1 ml syringe and the 10 ml syringe (which has five lines between each number) and I noticed the 10 ml barrel pulls out a little more ....just slightly.... not a lot but I did see the difference (maybe equal to a bit of a small squirt?)  do you think this is still okay to use?

 

Thanks for the input ((((.      )))) trying so hard to get thru this ....I'm so spent and scared ( an understatement)

 

As long as symptoms are not increasing that is what I think is important.  I'm glad you threw in a seven day hold.  I have an alternating pattern too.  One day up, the next down.  I've been going that way for several years.  Very predictable.  Trust you instincts about the cut size.

 

As for the syringes, being consistent is what is important.  As long as you do the same thing every day the accuracy of the syringes washes out and does not matter.

[[Pl...]]

Ok... got it.... I am going to use the 10 ml barrel.....im feeling the consistency of that should eventually just take hold even though there is just a slight difference...

 

SG, today my worst scariest symptom (by the way everything I'm describing to you is left over ativan symptom garbage....) was inner vibrating in torso with shortness of breath and inability to move fluidly without trembling jello shaking legs and arms like I'm about to keel over.... It stopped briefly now today and I can kind of move normally.....(after crying from the fear) ok... a few questions:

 

1) by the way did you ever get that? I've had it worse before and frequently as in all the time.....I have such severe health anxiety....

 

2) Since I am now holding at the 4.93 pull I am too afraid to pull the .17 ml that would bring me to 5.10 ml .....to get to the even 5.0 can I just go up the 7 lines from 4.93 to 5.0? Which would then be 5 mg ( SG, i don't even trust my math and understanding even if the answer is obvious ) 

 

3) have you eventually seen people go slow that were then able to pick up speed in the beginning?

 

4) in theory if I can make it down to even .75 mg in one piece shouldn't that bring the sedated spaced out drunk feeling go away?  I know for some people it increases as they go lower...did you ever experience this symptom?  it's like I have these episodes where my mind goes blank and I zone out like in a trance staring.... Like something switches off in my brain.... So scary.... It's like a thinking spasm...

 

I hate the way the drug makes me feel.... I will reach the 5 ml ( maybe in a few days see how I feel)  wait another week or so and then evaluate again....

 

please forgive me for all the questions..... just trying to figure this all out ......((((.      )))))

 

 

[[...]]

Ok... got it.... I am going to use the 10 ml barrel.....im feeling the consistency of that should eventually just take hold even though there is just a slight difference...

 

SG, today my worst scariest symptom (by the way everything I'm describing to you is left over ativan symptom garbage....) was inner vibrating in torso with shortness of breath and inability to move fluidly without trembling jello shaking legs and arms like I'm about to keel over.... It stopped briefly now today and I can kind of move normally.....(after crying from the fear) ok... a few questions:

 

1) by the way did you ever get that? I've had it worse before and frequently as in all the time.....I have such severe health anxiety....

 

2) Since I am now holding at the 4.93 pull I am too afraid to pull the .17 ml that would bring me to 5.10 ml .....to get to the even 5.0 can I just go up the 7 lines from 4.93 to 5.0? Which would then be 5 mg ( SG, i don't even trust my math and understanding even if the answer is obvious ) 

 

3) have you eventually seen people go slow that were then able to pick up speed in the beginning?

 

4) in theory if I can make it down to even .75 mg in one piece shouldn't that bring the sedated spaced out drunk feeling go away?  I know for some people it increases as they go lower...did you ever experience this symptom?  it's like I have these episodes where my mind goes blank and I zone out like in a trance staring.... Like something switches off in my brain.... So scary.... It's like a thinking spasm...

 

I hate the way the drug makes me feel.... I will reach the 5 ml ( maybe in a few days see how I feel)  wait another week or so and then evaluate again....

 

please forgive me for all the questions..... just trying to figure this all out ......((((.      )))))

 

1.  Yes, I had weak, jello legs and a feeling like I am uncoordinated.  Everything was a little off, and still is like that at times.

 

2.  Sure.  Cut anything below the .17ml or don't even cut at all.  Holding, slow tapering is good.

 

3.  I guess there have been a few, but this is not common and may be that some were tapering slower than they needed, then felt more confident.

 

4.  IDK.  Some people do seem to be badly effected from the drug itself in addition to removal of the drug.  So they are caught in a bad place where they can't win.

 

I think if you can keep working on getting the symptoms to decrease you'll eventually feel much better.  That's the goal, but it can take some time.

[[Pl...]]

Thanks again SG..... I agree with number 4......I think the dose is just too high for me and is working against me right now in that regard.... I have noticed that even with this tiny reduction it has gotten slightly better and I mean slightly.....

 

okay.... Many blessings to you for your wonderful insight and help today... I'm so glad you are here.....(another understatement).

[[Pl...]]

SG. .... If you're there I finally made it to my .95 mg..... Not doing so good at all but here....I'm going to stay at my 5.ml pull everyday for a week or more and see what happens...

 

Very discouraged but I believe I will have to reduce to maybe 3 percent over 30 days if that's even possible...... :'( i seriously think that even 3 percent is not doable..... i feel so doomed....I say that with angst because at least if I felt okay and good on it it wouldn't hurt so much but I don't..... This drug makes me feel so toxic but what else can I do?

 

Would you be able to tell me what the daily pull would be to toss out everyday for 3 percent and 2 percent over 30 days? 

 

Thank you kindly .....

 

 

[[...]]

SG. .... If you're there I finally made it to my .95 mg..... Not doing so good at all but here....I'm going to stay at my 5.ml pull everyday for a week or more and see what happens...

 

Very discouraged but I believe I will have to reduce to maybe 3 percent over 30 days if that's even possible...... :'( i seriously think that even 3 percent is not doable..... i feel so doomed....I say that with angst because at least if I felt okay and good on it it wouldn't hurt so much but I don't..... This drug makes me feel so toxic but what else can I do?

 

Would you be able to tell me what the daily pull would be to toss out everyday for 3 percent and 2 percent over 30 days? 

 

Thank you kindly .....

 

I'm glad you are going to hold.  Have your symptoms increased?  Don't allow this.  Do whatever it takes to keep them at least the same.  If you are going to cut, it needs to be a cut that does not increase symptoms so trying 3% a month is a good thing to do if 5% is not working.

 

3%/month=.001mg (.1ml)

2%/month=.0007mg (.07ml)

 

You need to find a cut that does not affect you negatively and hopefully allows symptoms to fade away over time.  I'd go as low as needed to accomplish this.  What has the general trend been over the past month (if you can tell)?  Better, worse, or no change?

[[Pl...]]

SG. .... If you're there I finally made it to my .95 mg..... Not doing so good at all but here....I'm going to stay at my 5.ml pull everyday for a week or more and see what happens...

 

Very discouraged but I believe I will have to reduce to maybe 3 percent over 30 days if that's even possible...... :'( i seriously think that even 3 percent is not doable..... i feel so doomed....I say that with angst because at least if I felt okay and good on it it wouldn't hurt so much but I don't..... This drug makes me feel so toxic but what else can I do?

 

Would you be able to tell me what the daily pull would be to toss out everyday for 3 percent and 2 percent over 30 days? 

 

Thank you kindly .....

 

I'm glad you are going to hold.  Have your symptoms increased?  Don't allow this.  Do whatever it takes to keep them at least the same.  If you are going to cut, it needs to be a cut that does not increase symptoms so trying 3% a month is a good thing to do if 5% is not working.

 

3%/month=.001mg (.1ml)

2%/month=.0007mg (.07ml)

 

You need to find a cut that does not affect you negatively and hopefully allows symptoms to fade away over time.  I'd go as low as needed to accomplish this.  What has the general trend been over the past month (if you can tell)?  Better, worse, or no change?

 

Hi dearest SG.... It is very hard to tell or say.... I would say worse.... I feel sick and toxic on it and when I reduced there was a definite uptick intensity of symptoms with other variables contributing I'm sure.....it's like a no win situation.... I started to keep a journal the past week to keep record of a trend....

 

I haven't seen anyone on here whose physical symptoms are as severe as mine.... I've reached out to see with not much response.....

 

My whole face contracts from my forehead  muscles... Tiny spasms all above my eyebrows ... In between my eyes.(The worst). eyes involuntarily squeezing and closing, jaw jerking back and forth , lips turning downwards you name it...my left eye especially is so bad....the muscle underneath my eye will tick vibrate pull upward you name it... I have to wear tape on my face to try to control all the muscles and nerves its so bad..when I talk it feels like my mouth wants to move in all different directions... Like muscles tugging and pulling twitching.... (Thats only half of my symptoms)

 

It makes me want to give up on my life.... How could this ever go away? :'( sometimes they all contract at once with vigorous force..... It looks hideous and is beyond scary and painful... It's worse then how I've even made it sound if that's possible....my family desperately wants to help they don't know how.....they see the severity of my suffering....this is all so exhausting fighting with my face and body going thru this everyday and crying... I feel its so permanent.... brain damage... i'm always looking for hope but I feel I lost it a long time ago...severe despair and depression

 

I don't have an extensive drugging history at all if you look at my signature....I never took an antipsychotic... Took visteral about 5 days... ( that could cause td ive read though rare) I don't know....the neurologist wouldn't label it because he didnt know... this ALL started from stopping ativan nothing else.......he didnt deny that...

 

I've been hypersensitive to meds since a child.... how stupid was I ?

 

My primary saw how bad I was and was shocked.... He suggested to try this again and hope it works.... seemed to help a bit a few weeks.... I don't know..... Now I'm stuck trying to stay alive while getting thru this....if this all stays I can no longer keep doing this ... Don't know what I'm gonna do.. It's unlivable :'( desperately need hope to continue on....I forgot to say that I was also having non-epileptic type  Limb movement and seizures (shaking attacks of full body including head)  before the kolonopin...the drug did help with that as it was escalating ...

 

****Right before my 5pm dose yesterday my face sxs really acted up and probably for about an hour after that it did too along with shortness of breath spacing out and feeling semi conscious and then I came out of it ...don't know what this is?!? I also had alot of stress yesterday too... That's what makes me want to get off so fast but I know that would be bad... I think?)*****

 

I'm sorry for my novel SG.... I was trying to convey how bad I was...I keep it in a lot but I feel you are caring..

 

going back to .1ml pull a day it would go like this....discard the following out of the batch:

 

day1 5.10

Day2 5.20

day3 5.30

Day4 5.40

"    "

Day30 8.00ml over 30 days would equal 92mg?

 

SG .... I thank you...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

 

Hi dearest SG.... It is very hard to tell or say.... I would say worse.... I feel sick and toxic on it and when I reduced there was a definite uptick intensity of symptoms with other variables contributing I'm sure.....it's like a no win situation.... I started to keep a journal the past week to keep record of a trend....

 

I haven't seen anyone on here whose physical symptoms are as severe as mine.... I've reached out to see with not much response.....

 

My whole face contracts from my forehead  muscles... Tiny spasms all above my eyebrows ... In between my eyes.(The worst). eyes involuntarily squeezing and closing, jaw jerking back and forth , lips turning downwards you name it...my left eye especially is so bad....the muscle underneath my eye will tick vibrate pull upward you name it... I have to wear tape on my face to try to control all the muscles and nerves its so bad..when I talk it feels like my mouth wants to move in all different directions... Like muscles tugging and pulling twitching.... (Thats only half of my symptoms)

 

It makes me want to give up on my life.... How could this ever go away? :'( sometimes they all contract at once with vigorous force..... It looks hideous and is beyond scary and painful... It's worse then how I've even made it sound if that's possible....my family desperately wants to help they don't know how.....they see the severity of my suffering....this is all so exhausting fighting with my face and body going thru this everyday and crying... I feel its so permanent.... brain damage... i'm always looking for hope but I feel I lost it a long time ago...severe despair and depression

 

I don't have an extensive drugging history at all if you look at my signature....I never took an antipsychotic... Took visteral about 5 days... ( that could cause td ive read though rare) I don't know....the neurologist wouldn't label it because he didnt know... this ALL started from stopping ativan nothing else.......he didnt deny that...

 

I've been hypersensitive to meds since a child.... how stupid was I ?

 

My primary saw how bad I was and was shocked.... He suggested to try this again and hope it works.... seemed to help a bit a few weeks.... I don't know..... Now I'm stuck trying to stay alive while getting thru this....if this all stays I can no longer keep doing this ... Don't know what I'm gonna do.. It's unlivable :'( desperately need hope to continue on....I forgot to say that I was also having non-epileptic type  Limb movement and seizures (shaking attacks of full body including head)  before the kolonopin...the drug did help with that as it was escalating ...

 

****Right before my 5pm dose yesterday my face sxs really acted up and probably for about an hour after that it did too along with shortness of breath spacing out and feeling semi conscious and then I came out of it ...don't know what this is?!? I also had alot of stress yesterday too... That's what makes me want to get off so fast but I know that would be bad... I think?)*****

 

I'm sorry for my novel SG.... I was trying to convey how bad I was...I keep it in a lot but I feel you are caring..

 

going back to .1ml pull a day it would go like this....discard the following out of the batch:

 

day1 5.10

Day2 5.20

day3 5.30

Day4 5.40

"    "

Day30 8.00ml over 30 days would equal 92mg?

 

SG .... I thank you...

 

Yes, after 30 days you'd be 3ml from where you are today, which is .03mg.

 

So, to refresh my memory, you CTed 1mg Ativan, then reinstated to 1mg K?  Is that right?  Those symptoms do not sound like fun.  I'm surprised that reinstating to such a high dose did not affect them more.  How long were you CTed for?

 

You did have a period where you felt better.  Has that been recurring?  We don't want to worsen symptoms.  Keep them the same at the very very least.

[[Pl...]]

Yes ... I went from 1 mg ativan to 1 mg kolonopin but did not reinstate until 10 MONTHS after being free.....

 

I used the ativan four times a week most sometimes more here and there...sometimes skipping days in between .....sometimes lower doses....and tapered off of it in one month very rapidly..... The symptoms just got worse and worse and worse the farther i got out....I think I was a slow metabolizer of the ativan as I would feel the effects from the previous days use sometimes for a few days.....ativan actually feels much stronger to me then kolonopin but in a much different way.... I was getting  some partial windows during the cold turkey but the other symptoms were so horrific I could no longer sustain it.... I still can't...

 

Reinstating the kolonopin was to help with the shaking attacks, tremors , involuntary contractions and the face issues and severe anxiety......don't get me wrong it did soften some of my symptoms but not enough to let me function.....

 

All I read on here is cold turkey reinstatements and kindling....and it's all over for you..... I feel if that is the case its all over for me....do you think I'm doomed?  And thank you.... I'm scared I won't survive this taper....

[[...]]

Yes ... I went from 1 mg ativan to 1 mg kolonopin but did not reinstate until 10 MONTHS after being free.....

 

I used the ativan four times a week most sometimes more here and there...sometimes skipping days in between .....sometimes lower doses....and tapered off of it in one month very rapidly..... The symptoms just got worse and worse and worse the farther i got out....I think I was a slow metabolizer of the ativan as I would feel the effects from the previous days use sometimes for a few days.....ativan actually feels much stronger to me then kolonopin but in a much different way.... I was getting  some partial windows during the cold turkey but the other symptoms were so horrific I could no longer sustain it.... I still can't...

 

Reinstating the kolonopin was to help with the shaking attacks, tremors , involuntary contractions and the face issues and severe anxiety......don't get me wrong it did soften some of my symptoms but not enough to let me function.....

 

All I read on here is cold turkey reinstatements and kindling....and it's all over for you..... I feel if that is the case its all over for me....do you think I'm doomed?  And thank you.... I'm scared I won't survive this taper....

 

No, I don't think you are doomed.  Everybody heals from this eventually.  You want to lessen symptoms, not get off.  The only ways I know to do that without updosing are to either hold or do a slow daily taper.  Ten months is a long time to be CTed.  You basically doubled your dose by going back on to 1mg K.  I'm not sure what would happen if you went up even higher.  That's beyond my experience.

 

How long have you been doing the daily taper now?  Have the good periods been recurring?

[[Pl...]]

Yes ... I went from 1 mg ativan to 1 mg kolonopin but did not reinstate until 10 MONTHS after being free.....

 

I used the ativan four times a week most sometimes more here and there...sometimes skipping days in between .....sometimes lower doses....and tapered off of it in one month very rapidly..... The symptoms just got worse and worse and worse the farther i got out....I think I was a slow metabolizer of the ativan as I would feel the effects from the previous days use sometimes for a few days.....ativan actually feels much stronger to me then kolonopin but in a much different way.... I was getting  some partial windows during the cold turkey but the other symptoms were so horrific I could no longer sustain it.... I still can't...

 

Reinstating the kolonopin was to help with the shaking attacks, tremors , involuntary contractions and the face issues and severe anxiety......don't get me wrong it did soften some of my symptoms but not enough to let me function.....

 

All I read on here is cold turkey reinstatements and kindling....and it's all over for you..... I feel if that is the case its all over for me....do you think I'm doomed?  And thank you.... I'm scared I won't survive this taper....

 

No, I don't think you are doomed.  Everybody heals from this eventually.  You want to lessen symptoms, not get off.  The only ways I know to do that without updosing are to either hold or do a slow daily taper.  Ten months is a long time to be CTed.  You basically doubled your dose by going back on to 1mg K.  I'm not sure what would happen if you went up even higher.  That's beyond my experience.

 

How long have you been doing the daily taper now?  Have the good periods been recurring?

 

I know..the 10 months of being free is what is scaring me..... That perhaps the damage was done? I never would have predicted that things would have gotten that much worse....I don't know..

 

... The doubling of the dose is what I regret too .... I didn't realize the strength.... That's why it's effecting me in that spacey zombie like way I was telling you about.... But it feels very very different then ativan... I didn't even think it was strong at first until it built up I guess that's when I really started to feel the cumulative effects.... It was very deceiving at first plus I was desperate to quell my symptoms....

 

I did an up dose once after about a month and it was a disaster.... My body let me know immediately don't do it..... It seemed to get acclimated to the 1 mg and that was it....I would have just stayed at .25 mg if I could or of course .50 mg....

 

I reinstated on January 8th, 2016..... After about 2 months I think I switched to liquid for 24 days... And I didn't start microtapering until about April 24th....so a little over a month...... I do have some periods where it seems  some things will definitely lessen and where maybe one symptom  won't show up until the next day.... It's like a symptom merry go round....

 

All in all,  there still always there but yes ... I guess when you've been messed up for so long its hard to look at anything positive even if its a little..... I desperately want the face stuff and dizziness to stop and of course the 100 other sxs...it all scares me so much....I've been dealing with this already for 15 months altogether...

 

This time around I don't want to mess up... I have to do it right.....

 

With the support help and guidance of people on here like yourself that's the only way I could do it....

 

so as always a big thank you... I could never say it enough....

 

..

[[...]]

 

No, I don't think you are doomed.  Everybody heals from this eventually.  You want to lessen symptoms, not get off.  The only ways I know to do that without updosing are to either hold or do a slow daily taper.  Ten months is a long time to be CTed.  You basically doubled your dose by going back on to 1mg K.  I'm not sure what would happen if you went up even higher.  That's beyond my experience.

 

How long have you been doing the daily taper now?  Have the good periods been recurring?

 

I know..the 10 months of being free is what is scaring me..... That perhaps the damage was done? I never would have predicted that things would have gotten that much worse....I don't know..

 

... The doubling of the dose is what I regret too .... I didn't realize the strength.... That's why it's effecting me in that spacey zombie like way I was telling you about.... But it feels very very different then ativan... I didn't even think it was strong at first until it built up I guess that's when I really started to feel the cumulative effects.... It was very deceiving at first plus I was desperate to quell my symptoms....

 

I did an up dose once after about a month and it was a disaster.... My body let me know immediately don't do it..... It seemed to get acclimated to the 1 mg and that was it....I would have just stayed at .25 mg if I could or of course .50 mg....

 

I reinstated on January 8th, 2016..... After about 2 months I think I switched to liquid for 24 days... And I didn't start microtapering until about April 24th....so a little over a month...... I do have some periods where it seems  some things will definitely lessen and where maybe one symptom  won't show up until the next day.... It's like a symptom merry go round....

 

All in all,  there still always there but yes ... I guess when you've been messed up for so long its hard to look at anything positive even if its a little..... I desperately want the face stuff and dizziness to stop and of course the 100 other sxs...it all scares me so much....I've been dealing with this already for 15 months altogether...

 

This time around I don't want to mess up... I have to do it right.....

 

With the support help and guidance of people on here like yourself that's the only way I could do it....

 

so as always a big thank you... I could never say it enough....

 

..

 

You've been tapering at 5% a month for about six weeks and are saying you are neither improved nor worse...possibly a bit worse.  I'd either just stop and give it a good long hold or, if you want to taper, I think your plan to drop down to 3% is reasonable.  If you taper, we want you trending toward better.