Please Assistance Needed in Recalculation of Taper / Thank you!

[[...]]

SG.... I'm really scared...... I was thinking of switching back to pills.... I got extremely ill when I switched to the milk but I was so symptomatic already and out of it I just couldn't tell what was going on with me....but the milk made it worse... That I know...

 

1)What is your experience with people tapering from kolonopin on here with liquid?

2)Or do you see mostly people tapering with pills?

3) Is it possible to be accurate with pills doing a dry micro daily taper and scale?

4) if I go back to pills will I just upset the symptoms more as another transition?

 

I'm wondering if being so symptomatic from the beginning skewed my ability to notice the milk wasnt working all this time..... I don't know....

 

All I know is something is really wrong and I feel like I'm dying.... I'm not getting any relief .... Grant it right now I have the flu , woman's time of the month, but this is more then I can bear for way too long...what a nightmare this is...... I know most people with my symptoms would have offed themselves.... But I want to live....

 

Maybe I'm just having a 100 percent adverse reaction and I'm dying and I don't even know it and this pill is killing me.... I have the most weirdest bizarre symptoms I've seen on here....either that or no one talks about it

 

Anything you could provide by way of insight will help me so much...... Thank you  :'(

 

If you go back to pills and taper with a scale you'll give up some accuracy, but people do it.  If you have a .5mg pill, the smallest cut you can make is ~.003mg, that's the limit.  From what I have seen, most people don't seem to have a problem going from liquid to pills so I think it would be okay.  You've been on liquid for three months or so and I think any adjustment has already occurred so I doubt liquid is the problem now, but switching is something you could try.

 

I know what you mean about all the bad stuff.  I've been there.  These pills are awful.  We need to get you to a place where symptoms are tolerable.  I wish I knew the answer.  Hang in there.  It will get better.

[[Pl...]]

I am a dry cutter and it works for me nicely.

 

I use a pill crusher and gently crush - GENTLY  - several pills, one or two at a time.  I keep the crushed particles in a separate pill bottle and weigh out the pieces as I weigh and bag up each and every dose.  Don't crush to powder!  Just crush enough to break the pills to pieces that you can pick up easily with tweezers.

 

I like my scale  -  Horizon Pro-20A.  It is not perfect, but with a gentle touch and some patience, it weighs accurately enough to make me feel secure.  I am careful not to breath on it, bump it, wave a piece of paper near it - it is that sensitive.  I am also happy as long as the measurement is in the ballpark of the target.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Horizon-PRO-20A-Digital-Jewelry-0-001g/dp/B005Y5LAOG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439747517&sr=8-1&keywords=Horizon+Pro-20A

 

Moving between mg and gram weight measurements can be confusing.  It took me a while to get it right, and I now have everything carefully logged and spelled out so I don't go off track.  If you want to see a blank page from my log, let me know and I will post it or send it your way electronically.  I wrote down every dose. It was reassuring to watch those numbers going down!

 

For clarification:

 

.5 mg klonopin  =  .175 gram weight on the scale 

.25 mg  klonopin  =  .88 gram weight on the scale

.125 mg klonopin =  .44 gram weight on the scale

 

.125 mg is a quarter of one .5mg klonopin tablet.

 

I purchased medication dose bags at CVS or Amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ezy-Dose-Disposable-Pill-Pouches/dp/B001FVG5QQ

 

 

Pill crusher, dose bags, scale  -  and a small calculator.  That will get you started.

 

I am happy to answer any questions, any time.

jgr2

 

Oh my gosh... Thank you so much for all of this..... I will need lots of help trying to attempt this at first... But just maybe this will work better... I have to try... And maybe I'm wrong but I won't know until I try....I am terrible at math but I got this far with the liquid thanks to SG... I am forever grateful as I could not have gotten this far without him... That's a definite...

 

I will try to get energy  in me to order this ASAP....bless you all and I will keep you updated....the kindness you all show keeps me trying to hold on...

[[Pl...]]

SG.... I'm really scared...... I was thinking of switching back to pills.... I got extremely ill when I switched to the milk but I was so symptomatic already and out of it I just couldn't tell what was going on with me....but the milk made it worse... That I know...

 

1)What is your experience with people tapering from kolonopin on here with liquid?

2)Or do you see mostly people tapering with pills?

3) Is it possible to be accurate with pills doing a dry micro daily taper and scale?

4) if I go back to pills will I just upset the symptoms more as another transition?

 

I'm wondering if being so symptomatic from the beginning skewed my ability to notice the milk wasnt working all this time..... I don't know....

 

All I know is something is really wrong and I feel like I'm dying.... I'm not getting any relief .... Grant it right now I have the flu , woman's time of the month, but this is more then I can bear for way too long...what a nightmare this is...... I know most people with my symptoms would have offed themselves.... But I want to live....

 

Maybe I'm just having a 100 percent adverse reaction and I'm dying and I don't even know it and this pill is killing me.... I have the most weirdest bizarre symptoms I've seen on here....either that or no one talks about it

 

Anything you could provide by way of insight will help me so much...... Thank you  :'(

 

If you go back to pills and taper with a scale you'll give up some accuracy, but people do it.  If you have a .5mg pill, the smallest cut you can make is ~.003mg, that's the limit.  From what I have seen, most people don't seem to have a problem going from liquid to pills so I think it would be okay.  You've been on liquid for three months or so and I think any adjustment has already occurred so I doubt liquid is the problem now, but switching is something you could try.

 

I know what you mean about all the bad stuff.  I've been there.  These pills are awful.  We need to get you to a place where symptoms are tolerable.  I wish I knew the answer.  Hang in there.  It will get better.

 

SG... Thank you for the response!  That's why I'm trying to try anything just to see...

 

1) .since the cuts will be in mg and not in ml how does that translate percentage wise per month with the amount you gave as the smallest cut at .003 mg? This concerns me because what if I need it smaller?

 

2). And now for the super duper dumbest question of the day or ever that you've seen; what would the total mg drop be in 30 days for cutting .003 mg a day?

 

I'm so confused in my brain right now... Actually always confused... I don't know if I'm making sense...

 

[[...]]

If you go back to pills and taper with a scale you'll give up some accuracy, but people do it.  If you have a .5mg pill, the smallest cut you can make is ~.003mg, that's the limit.  From what I have seen, most people don't seem to have a problem going from liquid to pills so I think it would be okay.  You've been on liquid for three months or so and I think any adjustment has already occurred so I doubt liquid is the problem now, but switching is something you could try.

 

I know what you mean about all the bad stuff.  I've been there.  These pills are awful.  We need to get you to a place where symptoms are tolerable.  I wish I knew the answer.  Hang in there.  It will get better.

SG... Thank you for the response!  That's why I'm trying to try anything just to see...

 

1) .since the cuts will be in mg and not in ml how does that translate percentage wise per month with the amount you gave as the smallest cut at .003 mg? This concerns me because what if I need it smaller?

 

2). And now for the super duper dumbest question of the day or ever that you've seen; what would the total mg drop be in 30 days for cutting .003 mg a day?

 

I'm so confused in my brain right now... Actually always confused... I don't know if I'm making sense...

 

That's what happens when you dry cut .5mg K with a .001g scale...if you need smaller cuts you have to build in hold days to make up for the fact that you can't cut as small as you need.  So people end up doing cut patterns: c/c/c/h, c/c/h, c/h/c/h, and so on.  It can work.  A cut of .001g (.003mg K) a day at your dose would be just about 10% a month, so you would need to insert hold days for sure.  Doing c/h/h/h would be 2.5% a month, for example.

[[...]]

1) .since the cuts will be in mg and not in ml how does that translate percentage wise per month with the amount you gave as the smallest cut at .003 mg? This concerns me because what if I need it smaller?

 

2). And now for the super duper dumbest question of the day or ever that you've seen; what would the total mg drop be in 30 days for cutting .003 mg a day?

 

 

I would encourage you to take one day at a time and not set - or even think about - specific long term goals, other than getting off the benzo.  Percentages and numbers are confusing, especially when operating with cog fog, and specific goals can  be difficult to reach.  My most successful times came when I gave up as much control as I could, worked through 'today', and started again tomorrow. 

 

I tried to not push towards some self-imposed goal.  It was enough of a challenge without making it more stressful.

 

Once I got down to small, really small, doses, I had no trouble weighing and measuring.  I found I could weigh extremely small doses using the crushed pill powder.  Towards the very end I was putting klonopin dust on my tongue.  It just worked for me.

 

I varied the method I used for dry cutting, the amount, and regularity, as I moved through the process.  I found the easiest method was a daily cut, usually seven days in a row, then a hold for several days or as long as it took to feel stable.    Cutting micro amounts daily made the reduction smoother than taking a larger cut once a week.  That was too abrupt for me. 

 

jgr2

 

[[Pl...]]

1) .since the cuts will be in mg and not in ml how does that translate percentage wise per month with the amount you gave as the smallest cut at .003 mg? This concerns me because what if I need it smaller?

 

2). And now for the super duper dumbest question of the day or ever that you've seen; what would the total mg drop be in 30 days for cutting .003 mg a day?

 

 

I would encourage you to take one day at a time and not set - or even think about - specific long term goals, other than getting off the benzo.  Percentages and numbers are confusing, especially when operating with cog fog, and specific goals can  be difficult to reach.  My most successful times came when I gave up as much control as I could, worked through 'today', and started again tomorrow. 

 

I tried to not push towards some self-imposed goal.  It was enough of a challenge without making it more stressful.

 

Once I got down to small, really small, doses, I had no trouble weighing and measuring.  I found I could weigh extremely small doses using the crushed pill powder.  Towards the very end I was putting klonopin dust on my tongue.  It just worked for me.

 

I varied the method I used for dry cutting, the amount, and regularity, as I moved through the process.  I found the easiest method was a daily cut, usually seven days in a row, then a hold for several days or as long as it took to feel stable.    Cutting micro amounts daily made the reduction smoother than taking a larger cut once a week.  That was too abrupt for me. 

 

jgr2

 

Okay jg.... Thank you.....I can barely reduce to get down from .94mg to .93mg in even a months time... That is how bad I am ... I'm non functioning on the drug and trying to get off horrible.... That's how bad I am....

 

Also, everyone on the kk thread uses the Gemini scale ....do you know what the difference is between that and I believe the one you said is horizon ?

[[Pl...]]

Hang in there, PBH.  It sounds awful.  You can try to explain the liquid to them.  Your dose is still near 1mg so as a Plan B I'd say you can go back to a 1mg pill if you need to.  Maybe others have experienced being admitted while tapering and can help.

Sg... Thank you.... I definitely don't want to do that I worked so hard just to get to .94 mg.... And that was a struggle....... Hopefully someone can chime in too.. Thank you

 

The drug is also too sedating .... I'm desperate to go down... Can't take it......  I am  very cognitively  impaired from it.....

 

Just want to double check with you

 

1)  if I did .05 ml increments in 30 days would that being me to 1.50 percent?  Roughly down from 94 mg to 92.50 mg?

 

2)  And if I did .06 ml in 30 days (meaning pulling an additional .06 every day) would that bring me down to 1.80 percent roughly being that I would drop down from 94 mg to 92 mg?

 

I haven't figured this out yet .... But I may be one of those people that feels better as they taper down it just has to be like a snail at first.., I don't know ... Holding right now..... This drug does absolutely nothing for anxiety but causes it for me....everything in my body feels really fast and so much adrenaline but I'm too weak to burn it out... It's very pronounced in my legs/..... This is pure hell..... I don't know how that could get better by holding....the symptoms increase the anxiety too....

 

I'm going to go on the long hold and ask them too...

 

How do you taper if paradoxical? thinking out loud...

 

Thank you SG...to answer your question previously I have only minutes where temporary partial liftings exist...sometimes a little more with an increase between 10 to 15 percent feeling better....

 

Feeling you drank a bottle of vodka everyday is a horrible feeling and I've never done that... Just saying... I'm not a drinker... I hate alcohol....not to mention I have very physical symptoms too...

 

Convinced I have td.... How? I never took anything that could cause that except for visteral an antihistamine for 5 days? I can't live with this.....disfiguring.... Ill never get better...

 

I am convinced I am the worse person on this forum......convinced... No hope.... Just a splitting thread holding me.... :'(

 

Thank you for listening answering and patience to listen to my garbage....

 

1.  Your liquid is .01mg/ml?  Yes, .05ml a day would be 1.6% for the month.

 

2.  Yes, .06ml a day would be 1.9% for the month.

 

Don't lose hope PBH, you'll get a break at some point.  I don't know what to do since you seem paradoxical, yet dependent too.  The thinking would be an updose may make things worse.  But we don't know that is true.  Your reinstatement to 1mg K did improve things for you somewhat.

 

A thing you could do is test.  You could try a one-time big-ish rescue dose and see what happens.  See if it makes a positive difference.  This might give you a clue as to how you would respond to an updose.  Kind of a shot in the dark.

 

Another test you could do, since you seem paradoxical, is try a test cut...like perhaps 5%...and see how you respond.  But in your condition this might not be the time.

 

Thanks SG... yes I did an up dose once and it was a disaster.... I guess I'm just going to keep going slow for awhile just to keep feeling the waters....

 

1) And answer to your question back to me is I am using (2) .50 mg pills in 100 ml milk so I guess the calculations you stated back to me are right?...

 

okay 1 more question for now.

 

.. 2) you do a reduction to test it do you only do it for that one day and then wait about 3 to 4 days to see how you react to continue?

 

3) Or do you keep reducing at that rate for a few days then stop and wait for awhile to see what happens?  Want to make sure I'm doing that right....

 

Thank you...((((.  )))

 

okay... just thought of another one....even if I went up again wouldn't it just make me more sedated than I am now ?( there's no way I would even try it) but just wondering......

 

Just to be sure .05 ml is right before the 0.1 ml on the 1 ml syringe correct?    Thank you ... I'm just double checking...

[[...]]

Just to be sure .05 ml is right before the 0.1 ml on the 1 ml syringe correct?    Thank you ... I'm just double checking...

 

Correct.  ".5ml" would be half of 1ml.  ".05ml" is half of .1ml.  It is way down on the barrel, near the tip.

[[...]]

I think they are identical  -  perhaps manufactured by the same company with different labels slapped on top.  They appear identical to me.

 

Gemini has better reviews.  Pricing is about the same.  Give the Gemini a try.  I don't think you can go wrong.

 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41XAsyqMKqL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=0NC12W2DHZZRQP4R5JW9

 

https://www.amazon.com/Horizon-PRO-20A-Precision-Milligram-Electronic/dp/B005Y5LAOG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1469375261&sr=8-7&keywords=horizon+scale

 

jgr2

[[Pl...]]

Just to be sure .05 ml is right before the 0.1 ml on the 1 ml syringe correct?    Thank you ... I'm just double checking...

 

Correct.  ".5ml" would be half of 1ml.  ".05ml" is half of .1ml.  It is way down on the barrel, near the tip.

Ok... Got it... Man how I forget stuff..... right now I do 3 tiny little lines a day...additionally everyday and then sometimes hold... Just to keep it moving... I can't imagine that hurting..... I want to eventually build up to the .06 ml I think it is ... I don't know......

 

I want to try the scale too because that may make a big difference... Who knows maybe I just never got acclimated to the milk ever because I was so symptomatic already I couldn't tell the difference? That's what I'm thinking....

 

Thank you SG....

[[Pl...]]

I think they are identical  -  perhaps manufactured by the same company with different labels slapped on top.  They appear identical to me.

 

Gemini has better reviews.  Pricing is about the same.  Give the Gemini a try.  I don't think you can go wrong.

 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41XAsyqMKqL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=0NC12W2DHZZRQP4R5JW9

 

https://www.amazon.com/Horizon-PRO-20A-Precision-Milligram-Electronic/dp/B005Y5LAOG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1469375261&sr=8-7&keywords=horizon+scale

 

jgr2

 

Oh jg thank you!!! You are even giving me the links.... I am so brain fogged that I wouldn't be able to find this stuff even if I tried.... I am hoping to purchase this during the week sometime... maybe there will be a difference.... Thank you and SG both for your help and ill be checking in as I don't know what I'm doing... bless you both so much!!!!!!

[[Pl...]]

I think they are identical  -  perhaps manufactured by the same company with different labels slapped on top.  They appear identical to me.

 

Gemini has better reviews.  Pricing is about the same.  Give the Gemini a try.  I don't think you can go wrong.

 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41XAsyqMKqL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=0NC12W2DHZZRQP4R5JW9

 

https://www.amazon.com/Horizon-PRO-20A-Precision-Milligram-Electronic/dp/B005Y5LAOG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1469375261&sr=8-7&keywords=horizon+scale

 

jgr2

 

Oh jg thank you!!! You are even giving me the links.... I am so brain fogged that I wouldn't be able to find this stuff even if I tried.... I am hoping to purchase this during the week sometime... maybe there will be a difference.... Thank you and SG both for your help and ill be checking in as I don't know what I'm doing... bless you both so much!!!!!!

 

Hi Jg.... I ask everyone on kolonopin whenever I get the nerve up but did you ever feel high as a kite and drunk as a sailor on these things and if so, as you tapered did it eventually become less and less?

 

I can't stand it .... I thought it would become less a little bit but still really there.....thanks for reading!

[[...]]

I never felt high or drunk on klonopin.  Thank goodness... 

 

I am sorry it has been  so unpleasant for you.  Imagine how GOOD you will feel when it is finally out of your system and out of your life!  You're getting there, one step at a time...

 

jgr2

[[Pl...]]

Thank you jg for the response..... I pray the cog fog gets better .... But that's the least of my worries although pretty significant....

 

I just ordered everything from amazon yesterday....i hope there will be a positive difference.....anything.....

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm willing to try just to see.....

 

I'm very grateful for all of you here helping out with calculations and how to navigate.... don't know what I would do....

[[Pl...]]

Jg.... I'm a severe kindling case and the more I read on here the more I feel I am forever doomed... This is killing me... I come across so terrified and desperate because I am.....  Its the severe neuro symptoms now the drunkeness.....sorry  :'(

 

And sorry SG for my constant fears that I bring up..... It's just that no one else understands.....

[[...]]

Jg.... I'm a severe kindling case and the more I read on here the more I feel I am forever doomed... This is killing me... I come across so terrified and desperate because I am.....  Its the severe neuro symptoms now the drunkeness.....sorry  :'(

 

And sorry SG for my constant fears that I bring up..... It's just that no one else understands.....

 

PBH  -  I wonder if you should stop reading these boards for awhile if reading makes you feel "forever doomed".  You should do things that make you feel better, not worse.  Is spending time on BB and KK forums making you feel worse?

 

Do you have good support at home?  Have you found a good doctor who understands what you are going through?  I know so many folks here believe psych doctors aren't unhelpful, but that hasn't  been my personal experience.  My psych has been a gift.  Shop around.  And know that you will probably know more about benzo w/d than your doc, and that's just the way it is  -  and that will allow him or her time to take care of you in other meaningful ways.  Someone needs to take care of you....

 

I went back to your earliest posts to understand what you have been going through.  I hear progress in your writing, PBH.  Keep going. You WILL get through this.

 

jgr2

 

[[Pl...]]

SG or someone please help....

 

I'm at a crossroads and don't know which way to go....

 

Kolonopin is giving me adrenaline surges and nothing is stopping it....do you think Valium would make this any different or worse? I hear its more forgiving.... The pharmacist tells me its senseless to do so..... It's just another benzo... Between the eppileptic type fits and over sedation and everything else this has to change..

 

.. Please dear God help me....

 

I have to try something else .... If you read my last post the pharmacist and my holistic nurse practitioner told me to do a detox....that is what got me in this mess in the first place.. (Wth?!?) .. Is it wise to just stop and take an anti seizure med? I would never go into one of those places again ever.....

 

Kolonopin affords me no relief.... It allows me to walk ( barely) which was better then what I was like before.... Other than that its adverse all the way..... I looked at the Ashton manual and I fit the criteria of what she has listed... This much I know....

 

Is there a way someone can tell me how to switch back to pills in an even transition... Maybe that's part of the problem....I feel like I never acclimated to the liquid or maybe this stuff is just too hard to taper from....

 

My conclusion is its both...

 

I'm sorry but I need everything spelled out for me.... I am going to need my brother to help me do this....

 

I take 2 (.50mg) pills in 100 mls of whole milk broken down in 3 doses a day at 10:00am, 5:00 pm and 1:00 am....

 

I am currently taking if I calculated correctly ( in my signature) .9342 mg....

 

How would I do that part wet and dry in those 3 doses.....

 

Anyone that can please help... I'm at a loss...

[[...]]

SG or someone please help....

 

I'm at a crossroads and don't know which way to go....

 

Kolonopin is giving me adrenaline surges and nothing is stopping it....do you think Valium would make this any different or worse? I hear its more forgiving.... The pharmacist tells me its senseless to do so..... It's just another benzo... Between the eppileptic type fits and over sedation and everything else this has to change..

 

.. Please dear God help me....

 

I have to try something else .... If you read my last post the pharmacist and my holistic nurse practitioner told me to do a detox....that is what got me in this mess in the first place.. (Wth?!?) .. Is it wise to just stop and take an anti seizure med? I would never go into one of those places again ever.....

 

Kolonopin affords me no relief.... It allows me to walk ( barely) which was better then what I was like before.... Other than that its adverse all the way..... I looked at the Ashton manual and I fit the criteria of what she has listed... This much I know....

 

Is there a way someone can tell me how to switch back to pills in an even transition... Maybe that's part of the problem....I feel like I never acclimated to the liquid or maybe this stuff is just too hard to taper from....

 

My conclusion is its both...

 

I'm sorry but I need everything spelled out for me.... I am going to need my brother to help me do this....

 

I take 2 (.50mg) pills in 100 mls of whole milk broken down in 3 doses a day at 10:00am, 5:00 pm and 1:00 am....

 

I am currently taking if I calculated correctly ( in my signature) .9342 mg....

 

How would I do that part wet and dry in those 3 doses.....

 

Anyone that can please help... I'm at a loss...

 

I tend to agree with your pharmacist, although I would not state it so conclusively.  V is not an exact replacement for K.  If it were, it would be K.  I would worry that the perturbation caused from crossing from one drug to the next might cause problems, since you seem to be so sensitive to removing it.  I can help with a careful crossover if that is what you want to do.

 

My understanding of rapid removal is that is causes damage via glutamate excitotoxicity and I would not advise anyone to do that unless the circumstances were very dire.

 

Have you ever tried a test dose of more K to see what happens?

[[Pl...]]

SG or someone please help....

 

I'm at a crossroads and don't know which way to go....

 

Kolonopin is giving me adrenaline surges and nothing is stopping it....do you think Valium would make this any different or worse? I hear its more forgiving.... The pharmacist tells me its senseless to do so..... It's just another benzo... Between the eppileptic type fits and over sedation and everything else this has to change..

 

.. Please dear God help me....

 

I have to try something else .... If you read my last post the pharmacist and my holistic nurse practitioner told me to do a detox....that is what got me in this mess in the first place.. (Wth?!?) .. Is it wise to just stop and take an anti seizure med? I would never go into one of those places again ever.....

 

Kolonopin affords me no relief.... It allows me to walk ( barely) which was better then what I was like before.... Other than that its adverse all the way..... I looked at the Ashton manual and I fit the criteria of what she has listed... This much I know....

 

Is there a way someone can tell me how to switch back to pills in an even transition... Maybe that's part of the problem....I feel like I never acclimated to the liquid or maybe this stuff is just too hard to taper from....

 

My conclusion is its both...

 

I'm sorry but I need everything spelled out for me.... I am going to need my brother to help me do this....

 

I take 2 (.50mg) pills in 100 mls of whole milk broken down in 3 doses a day at 10:00am, 5:00 pm and 1:00 am....

 

I am currently taking if I calculated correctly ( in my signature) .9342 mg....

 

How would I do that part wet and dry in those 3 doses.....

 

Anyone that can please help... I'm at a loss...

 

I tend to agree with your pharmacist, although I would not state it so conclusively.  V is not an exact replacement for K.  If it were, it would be K.  I would worry that the perturbation caused from crossing from one drug to the next might cause problems, since you seem to be so sensitive to removing it.  I can help with a careful crossover if that is what you want to do.

 

My understanding of rapid removal is that is causes damage via glutamate excitotoxicity and I would not advise anyone to do that unless the circumstances were very dire.

 

Have you ever tried a test dose of more K to see what happens?

 

Hi Sg... Thank you for your comments....I tend to agree also with  not switching over to valium in my severe condition... I'm just grasping at straws... One girl said it did help her although she said the transition was long and horrible...but she said it wasn't as strong I believe and she can see the pros of taking the valium....the strength of the drug is too much....the Ashton manual notes the difficulty alot of people have crossing from k to v... I just read it :'(.  I  cant add any more horrible right now and it doesn't mean it would work for me...

 

1) I feel like this may be the very last option and resort...(Valium)

 

I feel like I'm in a full blown cold turkey everyday......

Not just the severe physical sxs but now mental... Vivid nightmares I can't seem to get out of during the day they seem so real ... intrusive thoughts and now im agoraphobic and can't be left alone...d/p d/r...

 

2)  Is this what psychosis is?

 

I updosed once from 1.00 to 1.25 although I had not been on that amount before ( meaning the 1.25) It did not help but increased my heart rate and blood pressure and rendered me  immobile....very bad response albeit I went up .25 mg.... Put it this way .25 mg of k on its own is huge for me...

 

3) If I'm already high as a kite on these horrible pills wouldn't an updose make me feel worse? If I did it, how long before I felt it and could I automatically just jump right down to where I was?

 

4) My other  last resort of troubleshooting seems to be going back to pills....that's when things really went south for me... is there a formula that you can come up with that will keep me close to my schedule and amount? I would still want to do a dry daily micro taper if this worked....

 

I am really curious if this has something to do with it...

 

5) adrenaline issues..(feels like pure chemical anxiety mixed in with my own anxiety on top of it) . How can I reign this in? This has to be blocked....this 100 percent ramps up my sxs big time.... I cannot relax for one second .... Ashton talks about beta blockers... Even using them sparingly.( they have to be tapered if used everyday) ... People on here talk about seriphos... Don't know if that's safe while tapering...scared to use anything because of hoe reactive I am...

 

My adrenaline is so bad my legs will actually sometimes stomp with force  in rapid succession from the amount of energy being released....

 

6) here's a crazy idea... What if I alternated my doses every other day? If I'm a slow metabolizer could that work or am I playing with fire? Maybe that could give me a further glimpse of what the heck my body is doing or needs.... What if my symptoms really calmed down.... I don't know... Have you heard of anyone doing this?

 

I actually combined one of my doses one day ( well took pretty close together) just to see if that would help.... No go.....

 

Any change I make my body knows and it doesn't work....

 

I completely empathize with lizagal....

 

This drug does not agree with me and has to come out... How do I do it?

( by the way, I never had any of this before the pills except for my existing anxiety which was manageable before this)

 

I don't expect you to have the answers SG ....(except for  maybe #4) I'm kind of just itemizing my dilemmas in print .....

 

Thank you for reading my novel...your comments are highly regarded, warranted, and appreciated....

[[...]]

I tend to agree with your pharmacist, although I would not state it so conclusively.  V is not an exact replacement for K.  If it were, it would be K.  I would worry that the perturbation caused from crossing from one drug to the next might cause problems, since you seem to be so sensitive to removing it.  I can help with a careful crossover if that is what you want to do.

 

My understanding of rapid removal is that is causes damage via glutamate excitotoxicity and I would not advise anyone to do that unless the circumstances were very dire.

 

Have you ever tried a test dose of more K to see what happens?

 

Hi Sg... Thank you for your comments....I tend to agree also with  not switching over to valium in my severe condition... I'm just grasping at straws... One girl said it did help her although she said the transition was long and horrible...but she said it wasn't as strong I believe and she can see the pros of taking the valium....the strength of the drug is too much....the Ashton manual notes the difficulty alot of people have crossing from k to v... I just read it :'(.  I  cant add any more horrible right now and it doesn't mean it would work for me...

 

1) I feel like this may be the very last option and resort...(Valium)

 

I feel like I'm in a full blown cold turkey everyday......

Not just the severe physical sxs but now mental... Vivid nightmares I can't seem to get out of during the day they seem so real ... intrusive thoughts and now im agoraphobic and can't be left alone...d/p d/r...

 

2)  Is this what psychosis is?

 

I updosed once from 1.00 to 1.25 although I had not been on that amount before ( meaning the 1.25) It did not help but increased my heart rate and blood pressure and rendered me  immobile....very bad response albeit I went up .25 mg.... Put it this way .25 mg of k on its own is huge for me...

 

3) If I'm already high as a kite on these horrible pills wouldn't an updose make me feel worse? If I did it, how long before I felt it and could I automatically just jump right down to where I was?

 

4) My other  last resort of troubleshooting seems to be going back to pills....that's when things really went south for me... is there a formula that you can come up with that will keep me close to my schedule and amount? I would still want to do a dry daily micro taper if this worked....

 

I am really curious if this has something to do with it...

 

5) adrenaline issues..(feels like pure chemical anxiety mixed in with my own anxiety on top of it) . How can I reign this in? This has to be blocked....this 100 percent ramps up my sxs big time.... I cannot relax for one second .... Ashton talks about beta blockers... Even using them sparingly.( they have to be tapered if used everyday) ... People on here talk about seriphos... Don't know if that's safe while tapering...scared to use anything because of hoe reactive I am...

 

My adrenaline is so bad my legs will actually sometimes stomp with force  in rapid succession from the amount of energy being released....

 

6) here's a crazy idea... What if I alternated my doses every other day? If I'm a slow metabolizer could that work or am I playing with fire? Maybe that could give me a further glimpse of what the heck my body is doing or needs.... What if my symptoms really calmed down.... I don't know... Have you heard of anyone doing this?

 

I actually combined one of my doses one day ( well took pretty close together) just to see if that would help.... No go.....

 

Any change I make my body knows and it doesn't work....

 

I completely empathize with lizagal....

 

This drug does not agree with me and has to come out... How do I do it?

( by the way, I never had any of this before the pills except for my existing anxiety which was manageable before this)

 

I don't expect you to have the answers SG ....(except for  maybe #4) I'm kind of just itemizing my dilemmas in print .....

 

Thank you for reading my novel...your comments are highly regarded, warranted, and appreciated....

 

1.  Yeah, I mean when you are running out of options, switching to V might be worth a try.  It would  not be the first time switching helped.

 

2.  I had all those things and did not consider it psychosis.  To me psychosis is hearing and seeing things that are not there, and being really irrational.  You have been VERY rational through all this.

 

3.  So you did try going up and you reacted badly.  That's too bad.  My thought is that more K might help your GABA function more normally.  But your case confuses me.  It is more complicated than that and trial and error is about all we can do.  It is an option to try going up and staying there, but it is also quite scary to add more in your case since the drug may be somehow working against you.

 

4.  You can try going back to pills.  We can figure out how to do it slowly.

 

6.  I would not recommend alternating doses.  IMO you want your blood levels as steady as you can get them...three even doses every eight hours.

 

The thing is, you CTed from 1mg A and reinstated to the equivalent of 2mg.  You doubled it, yet you feel awful and have trouble removing any of it.  I don't get that.  I can see how the CT caused glutamate damage and that just needs to slowly heal no matter what.  But why is it hard to remove all that new benzo?

[[Pl...]]

I tend to agree with your pharmacist, although I would not state it so conclusively.  V is not an exact replacement for K.  If it were, it would be K.  I would worry that the perturbation caused from crossing from one drug to the next might cause problems, since you seem to be so sensitive to removing it.  I can help with a careful crossover if that is what you want to do.

 

My understanding of rapid removal is that is causes damage via glutamate excitotoxicity and I would not advise anyone to do that unless the circumstances were very dire.

 

Have you ever tried a test dose of more K to see what happens?

 

Hi Sg... Thank you for your comments....I tend to agree also with  not switching over to valium in my severe condition... I'm just grasping at straws... One girl said it did help her although she said the transition was long and horrible...but she said it wasn't as strong I believe and she can see the pros of taking the valium....the strength of the drug is too much....the Ashton manual notes the difficulty alot of people have crossing from k to v... I just read it :'(.  I  cant add any more horrible right now and it doesn't mean it would work for me...

 

1) I feel like this may be the very last option and resort...(Valium)

 

I feel like I'm in a full blown cold turkey everyday......

Not just the severe physical sxs but now mental... Vivid nightmares I can't seem to get out of during the day they seem so real ... intrusive thoughts and now im agoraphobic and can't be left alone...d/p d/r...

 

2)  Is this what psychosis is?

 

I updosed once from 1.00 to 1.25 although I had not been on that amount before ( meaning the 1.25) It did not help but increased my heart rate and blood pressure and rendered me  immobile....very bad response albeit I went up .25 mg.... Put it this way .25 mg of k on its own is huge for me...

 

3) If I'm already high as a kite on these horrible pills wouldn't an updose make me feel worse? If I did it, how long before I felt it and could I automatically just jump right down to where I was?

 

4) My other  last resort of troubleshooting seems to be going back to pills....that's when things really went south for me... is there a formula that you can come up with that will keep me close to my schedule and amount? I would still want to do a dry daily micro taper if this worked....

 

I am really curious if this has something to do with it...

 

5) adrenaline issues..(feels like pure chemical anxiety mixed in with my own anxiety on top of it) . How can I reign this in? This has to be blocked....this 100 percent ramps up my sxs big time.... I cannot relax for one second .... Ashton talks about beta blockers... Even using them sparingly.( they have to be tapered if used everyday) ... People on here talk about seriphos... Don't know if that's safe while tapering...scared to use anything because of hoe reactive I am...

 

My adrenaline is so bad my legs will actually sometimes stomp with force  in rapid succession from the amount of energy being released....

 

6) here's a crazy idea... What if I alternated my doses every other day? If I'm a slow metabolizer could that work or am I playing with fire? Maybe that could give me a further glimpse of what the heck my body is doing or needs.... What if my symptoms really calmed down.... I don't know... Have you heard of anyone doing this?

 

I actually combined one of my doses one day ( well took pretty close together) just to see if that would help.... No go.....

 

Any change I make my body knows and it doesn't work....

 

I completely empathize with lizagal....

 

This drug does not agree with me and has to come out... How do I do it?

( by the way, I never had any of this before the pills except for my existing anxiety which was manageable before this)

 

I don't expect you to have the answers SG ....(except for  maybe #4) I'm kind of just itemizing my dilemmas in print .....

 

Thank you for reading my novel...your comments are highly regarded, warranted, and appreciated....

 

1.  Yeah, I mean when you are running out of options, switching to V might be worth a try.  It would  not be the first time switching helped.

 

2.  I had all those things and did not consider it psychosis.  To me psychosis is hearing and seeing things that are not there, and being really irrational.  You have been VERY rational through all this.

 

3.  So you did try going up and you reacted badly.  That's too bad.  My thought is that more K might help your GABA function more normally.  But your case confuses me.  It is more complicated than that and trial and error is about all we can do.  It is an option to try going up and staying there, but it is also quite scary to add more in your case since the drug may be somehow working against you.

 

4.  You can try going back to pills.  We can figure out how to do it slowly.

 

6.  I would not recommend alternating doses.  IMO you want your blood levels as steady as you can get them...three even doses every eight hours.

 

The thing is, you CTed from 1mg A and reinstated to the equivalent of 2mg.  You doubled it, yet you feel awful and have trouble removing any of it.  I don't get that.  I can see how the CT caused glutamate damage and that just needs to slowly heal no matter what.  But why is it hard to remove all that new benzo?

 

SG... You deserve the biggest thanks from me yet for helping me get this far.... Thank you ALWAYS for your attentiveness and shoulder to lean on ....

 

I've been too weak and sick and physically and mentally disabled from being poisoned from these pills.... I'm tortured physically and mentally daily for far too long

 

I exist just to barely breathe because my nervous system can't even do that right...

 

If I make it, at some point I would like to revisit this thread and possibly try # 4..... Frankly, I don't have any more fight in me left.....

[[...]]

1.  Yeah, I mean when you are running out of options, switching to V might be worth a try.  It would  not be the first time switching helped.

 

2.  I had all those things and did not consider it psychosis.  To me psychosis is hearing and seeing things that are not there, and being really irrational.  You have been VERY rational through all this.

 

3.  So you did try going up and you reacted badly.  That's too bad.  My thought is that more K might help your GABA function more normally.  But your case confuses me.  It is more complicated than that and trial and error is about all we can do.  It is an option to try going up and staying there, but it is also quite scary to add more in your case since the drug may be somehow working against you.

 

4.  You can try going back to pills.  We can figure out how to do it slowly.

 

6.  I would not recommend alternating doses.  IMO you want your blood levels as steady as you can get them...three even doses every eight hours.

 

The thing is, you CTed from 1mg A and reinstated to the equivalent of 2mg.  You doubled it, yet you feel awful and have trouble removing any of it.  I don't get that.  I can see how the CT caused glutamate damage and that just needs to slowly heal no matter what.  But why is it hard to remove all that new benzo?

 

SG... You deserve the biggest thanks from me yet for helping me get this far.... Thank you ALWAYS for your attentiveness and shoulder to lean on ....

 

I've been too weak and sick and physically and mentally disabled from being poisoned from these pills.... I'm tortured physically and mentally daily for far too long

 

I exist just to barely breathe because my nervous system can't even do that right...

 

If I make it, at some point I would like to revisit this thread and possibly try # 4..... Frankly, I don't have any more fight in me left.....

 

I wish I had answers for you, PBH.  I know the feeling of not having anything left.  But somehow, here I am.  It has gotten easier with time, yet it is not yet "easy."  It will be though, and will be for you too.

[[Pl...]]

1.  Yeah, I mean when you are running out of options, switching to V might be worth a try.  It would  not be the first time switching helped.

 

2.  I had all those things and did not consider it psychosis.  To me psychosis is hearing and seeing things that are not there, and being really irrational.  You have been VERY rational through all this.

 

3.  So you did try going up and you reacted badly.  That's too bad.  My thought is that more K might help your GABA function more normally.  But your case confuses me.  It is more complicated than that and trial and error is about all we can do.  It is an option to try going up and staying there, but it is also quite scary to add more in your case since the drug may be somehow working against you.

 

4.  You can try going back to pills.  We can figure out how to do it slowly.

 

6.  I would not recommend alternating doses.  IMO you want your blood levels as steady as you can get them...three even doses every eight hours.

 

The thing is, you CTed from 1mg A and reinstated to the equivalent of 2mg.  You doubled it, yet you feel awful and have trouble removing any of it.  I don't get that.  I can see how the CT caused glutamate damage and that just needs to slowly heal no matter what.  But why is it hard to remove all that new benzo?

 

SG... You deserve the biggest thanks from me yet for helping me get this far.... Thank you ALWAYS for your attentiveness and shoulder to lean on ....

 

I've been too weak and sick and physically and mentally disabled from being poisoned from these pills.... I'm tortured physically and mentally daily for far too long

 

I exist just to barely breathe because my nervous system can't even do that right...

 

If I make it, at some point I would like to revisit this thread and possibly try # 4..... Frankly, I don't have any more fight in me left.....

 

I wish I had answers for you, PBH.  I know the feeling of not having anything left.  But somehow, here I am.  It has gotten easier with time, yet it is not yet "easy."  It will be though, and will be for you too.

 

:'( ( can't stop crying ))...comforts me to know you are here to help.....I am so grateful to God for that and sorry that yet you too struggle... It is not fair ...

 

I have a loooooong way to do this (yet again) and I can't see how I can do it without my body and mind giving out..... I can't even due another second...

 

i have a breakdown everyday of extreme adrenaline surges and bouts of inexplicable rage (none of this is the real me)  from the onslaught of sxs and abnormal chemical releases in my body.....kolonopin should not be doing this; yet it is.....

 

odds are against me and no way out...

 

I wish I could cold turkey as I feel the drug is working against me but I'm afraid the existing w/d sxs from my prior protracted w/d will spiral further out of control and put me into a deeper abyss of even worse w/d sxs...

 

Every single day I take this I wonder:

" is this going to slowly kill me like I feel its doing? rotting my brain and body or will stopping it do it more?  Maybe  its both...what do I have a better chance at?" Maybe both will have the same out come and get out now"

 

Ill never know..

 

What do people do in a situation like this... How does one keep going?   

 

 

What a horrible  thought to have running thru your mind of every second of every day....a prisoner in your own home  because your so debilitated to a pill...

 

.. I hope you can feel this >>>> ((Deepest Hugs) )))

[[Pl...]]

Hi SG.... I read on another thread about you talking about TD/dystonia.....

 

Have any of these people ever healed or gotten better? Or are they still in the beginning of this process?  I am curious...as I have had episodes like this this past month that led me to the hospital but I believe I know what precipitated it.... One is my menstrual cycle and the other is the probiotics and protein shakes foot detoxes what have you... I found info that says these things can interfere with effectiveness of benzodiazepines.... Especially the probiotic....

 

For me my face seems more like involuntary spasms and contractions....( mouth/ cheeks) especially the left eye...it can get very bad when I lay down at night....

 

I've noticed since after my monthly cycle this has all died down considerably.... I feel it petering out ...don't get me wrong... Its still there (face stuuff) just the dystonia type episodes stopped and the facial stuff is more episodic....(eyes/ mouth) its not doing it every second of the day.....the past week it was only doing it maybe 3 to 4 times during the day.....the sxs are morphing?

 

I know the adrenaline surges and hormones/anxiety are fueling this somehow...

 

A moderator on here told me of a woman on  I think one of the Facebook groups who had this and its gone..

 

Please tell me its not forever or years.... Please......

[[...]]

I would not be too quick to worry about it.  It is not common for benzos, I don't think.  I think it is much more likely that yours are just benzo symptoms.  I've been pressing my teeth for 4 1/2 years and it has not gotten better of worse in that time.  Still, I also have other symptoms that have been with me that long, so it may not be permanent.  I'll just have to wait and see.  Some people I've seen find that it goes away when they remove the drug, while others see improvement with time.  Then there are those with whom it does seem permanent.

 

Spasms and contractions sound like that could be benzo symptoms.  I used to get muscle twitches, but they are gone now.  My teeth pressing in not really involuntary like a spasm.  It is more like an irresistible urge to press...a repetitive movement that I can resist with great focus, but that ultimately I cannot stop, unless I wear a guard.  The guard is remarkably effective.