3,2,1: Under 3 mg Valium people

[[va...]]

Hello BB

Just checking in, things are going good for me. I'm on day 22 benzo free and getting better by the day.

The last 3 days has been awesome, the lingering nerve pain in my scalp is gone but still have some tight muscles that come and go. I can feel improvements for sure and hope they continue.

Everyone that's close to jumping, just remember it'll get better.

 

Caltn that's great news. I envy you! Is this your first time coming off of a benzo? Congratulations and enjoy your freedom.

 

Hi

Actually this isn't the first time coming off a benzo. My first benzo was Librax for my stomach. My Gastro doctor didn't inform me how to taper.  I tapered down to 1 5mg capsule then had to split it in half . Not knowing the harm I jumped at 2.5 mg of Librax. I hit rock bottom with fatigue , actually thought I was having heart problems. Reinstated on Valium cause of the horrible sxs and then started tapering . If only  my Gastro doctor would have informed me or I found BB sooner I would have been off a long time ago and healed.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you were also victimized by an irresponsible doctor. They just don't care about us. I was first put on valium by a reumathologist  for chronic pain. She said take 5 mgs valium three times a day!!! And paxil. I started taking it and I thought gosh this is too much and I stuck to only 5 mgs a day (knowing nothing at the time about benzos, I unknowingly did myself a great favor).

[[Ca...]]

Thanks for the advice Cantfly! You know, I've been reading a lot on gabapentin today and TBH I'm not sure I'm going to take it. Some people say it helped with their benzo tapers, and some people are now hooked on both drugs, so it's hard to tell.

 

Do you think it would help to not take it everyday and only on the days that I suddenly get terrible symptoms if I ever go down that hole again?

 

I'm so glad to hear your nerve pain has improved. After all that you've gone through in life I think you do need a break don't you?

 

Cairns is amazing. It's like the best place on earth, at least as a tourist of course. I have an uncle in Sydney who's in his 80s and he's investigated the family geneaology: all prisoners LOL. That's the great thing about Australia. Everyone comes from tough people don't you think?

 

I'm off now to another psychiatrist to ask about the gabapentin and trazodone combo. This is becoming my new OCD. I see you can't sleep well Cantfly, because it's nighttime over there. I always know what time it is because I phone my aunt and uncle often.

 

ALL TIED UP: I didn't know you had just been through an acute phase. But have you been having the 24/7 terrors and everything?? Glad you're out of that.

Hi Val, -

Atleast I sleep in well in the mornings..!! Lol

 

The thing is, its the meds that are the constant, and our bodys the variant, both within ourselves, and between each other, So how you will go with GPN and the meds in general will be individual... I guess there are some indicators that things may not go so well in some peoples situations though..

 

Taking anything “as needed” can have its own problems, not just a variety of potential “chemistry interactions” (thinking worst case), but It can lead one towards the psychological “need to take one to get ‘this or that’ done” type situation.. etc..

Constant intermittent dosing is considered problematic for many meds, benzos being renowned for it.. Im not sure where GPN stands on that one.. I was ok with it myself it seems, but that was mainly pre benzo taper, -and I also am one that did well with dose corrections (rescue or updoses) on valium too.. (My taper aim was to not over stress or shock my CNS..)

On the other hand, it may be a good correction tool in the proverbial box for some if needed..

Half the trick is working out our own medication and tapering parameters , sadly often by trial, or error.. But mistakes do give info too..

 

Asides if GPN were needed to ease symptoms, then It might be better to first rule out that it cant be better addressed with dose correction and taper speed on the original med (valium in this case).. -over adding an unknown into the mix... -a personal choice..

 

My rough take, and pls correct me if im wrong, is that you were tapering reasonably ok and then got hit hard and suddenly..??

If so, that can be a hell of a shock, and decisions get made to avoid it happening again at all costs..

-I know it has been so for me, more than once..

 

But it could be that your body will adjust and settle fairly quick, maybe with some help if needed..??

Or the other way to put it, is that this “month” might not be the best position to predict the rest of your taper from, or make set long term decisions from..

I guess I feel, at this point, there is a good chance that you can get your taper back on track and Walk Off, -hopefully without extensive or extended post jump issues...

 

I could be way off here, I sure havnt spent the usual time reading your complete posting history and associated threads, nor picking through your sig and asking any questions... Sorry I have been a bit under the weather and dont trust my head much either, so I am being pretty general atm.. -Well, perhaps not that general, I guess...

 

Sorry for the “clunky” post.. And I wish to Acknowledge that there may be people reading who have had a hell of a time with this med, even just a couple of doses.. Im not discounting that..

 

Hope you turn the corner soon.. Which ever way you go about it..

 

 

 

[[va...]]

Thanks for the advice Cantfly! You know, I've been reading a lot on gabapentin today and TBH I'm not sure I'm going to take it. Some people say it helped with their benzo tapers, and some people are now hooked on both drugs, so it's hard to tell.

 

Do you think it would help to not take it everyday and only on the days that I suddenly get terrible symptoms if I ever go down that hole again?

 

I'm so glad to hear your nerve pain has improved. After all that you've gone through in life I think you do need a break don't you?

 

Cairns is amazing. It's like the best place on earth, at least as a tourist of course. I have an uncle in Sydney who's in his 80s and he's investigated the family geneaology: all prisoners LOL. That's the great thing about Australia. Everyone comes from tough people don't you think?

 

I'm off now to another psychiatrist to ask about the gabapentin and trazodone combo. This is becoming my new OCD. I see you can't sleep well Cantfly, because it's nighttime over there. I always know what time it is because I phone my aunt and uncle often.

 

ALL TIED UP: I didn't know you had just been through an acute phase. But have you been having the 24/7 terrors and everything?? Glad you're out of that.

Hi Val, -

Atleast I sleep in well in the mornings..!! Lol

 

The thing is, its the meds that are the constant, and our bodys the variant, both within ourselves, and between each other, So how you will go with GPN and the meds in general will be individual... I guess there are some indicators that things may not go so well in some peoples situations though..

 

Taking anything “as needed” can have its own problems, not just a variety of potential “chemistry interactions” (thinking worst case), but It can lead one towards the psychological “need to take one to get ‘this or that’ done” type situation.. etc..

Constant intermittent dosing is considered problematic for many meds, benzos being renowned for it.. Im not sure where GPN stands on that one.. I was ok with it myself it seems, but that was mainly pre benzo taper, -and I also am one that did well with dose corrections (rescue or updoses) on valium too.. (My taper aim was to not over stress or shock my CNS..)

On the other hand, it may be a good correction tool in the proverbial box for some if needed..

Half the trick is working out our own medication and tapering parameters , sadly often by trial, or error.. But mistakes do give info too..

 

Asides if GPN were needed to ease symptoms, then It might be better to first rule out that it cant be better addressed with dose correction and taper speed on the original med (valium in this case).. -over adding an unknown into the mix... -a personal choice..

 

My rough take, and pls correct me if im wrong, is that you were tapering reasonably ok and then got hit hard and suddenly..??

If so, that can be a hell of a shock, and decisions get made to avoid it happening again at all costs..

-I know it has been so for me, more than once..

 

But it could be that your body will adjust and settle fairly quick, maybe with some help if needed..??

Or the other way to put it, is that this “month” might not be the best position to predict the rest of your taper from, or make set long term decisions from..

I guess I feel, at this point, there is a good chance that you can get your taper back on track and Walk Off, -hopefully without extensive or extended post jump issues...

 

I could be way off here, I sure havnt spent the usual time reading your complete posting history and associated threads, nor picking through your sig and asking any questions... Sorry I have been a bit under the weather and dont trust my head much either, so I am being pretty general atm.. -Well, perhaps not that general, I guess...

 

Sorry for the “clunky” post.. And I wish to Acknowledge that there may be people reading who have had a hell of a time with this med, even just a couple of doses.. Im not discounting that..

 

Hope you turn the corner soon.. Which ever way you go about it..

 

thank you Cantlfly. I've just taken the gabapentin at 5:30 am after a totally sleepless night. You know those videos on youtube with people suffering mental torture all night and most of the day? that's me. I had a window yesterday and here I am. Now I calculated that with all the rescue doses last month I had taken a daily average of 2.50. Mary also saw that. So I updosed last night determined to updose to 2.50. The night has been hell all the same. I can't wait another two weeks to see if the updose works. I can't do this, I'm in too much pain and alone. Let's see if the gabapentin works. If it doesn't I don't know what to think really. I'll ditch the trazodone. At least two meds and not three (not that it's doing anything anyways).

[[Ca...]]

Thanks for the advice Cantfly! You know, I've been reading a lot on gabapentin today and TBH I'm not sure I'm going to take it. Some people say it helped with their benzo tapers, and some people are now hooked on both drugs, so it's hard to tell.

 

Do you think it would help to not take it everyday and only on the days that I suddenly get terrible symptoms if I ever go down that hole again?

 

I'm so glad to hear your nerve pain has improved. After all that you've gone through in life I think you do need a break don't you?

 

Cairns is amazing. It's like the best place on earth, at least as a tourist of course. I have an uncle in Sydney who's in his 80s and he's investigated the family geneaology: all prisoners LOL. That's the great thing about Australia. Everyone comes from tough people don't you think?

 

I'm off now to another psychiatrist to ask about the gabapentin and trazodone combo. This is becoming my new OCD. I see you can't sleep well Cantfly, because it's nighttime over there. I always know what time it is because I phone my aunt and uncle often.

 

ALL TIED UP: I didn't know you had just been through an acute phase. But have you been having the 24/7 terrors and everything?? Glad you're out of that.

Hi Val, -

Atleast I sleep in well in the mornings..!! Lol

 

The thing is, its the meds that are the constant, and our bodys the variant, both within ourselves, and between each other, So how you will go with GPN and the meds in general will be individual... I guess there are some indicators that things may not go so well in some peoples situations though..

 

Taking anything “as needed” can have its own problems, not just a variety of potential “chemistry interactions” (thinking worst case), but It can lead one towards the psychological “need to take one to get ‘this or that’ done” type situation.. etc..

Constant intermittent dosing is considered problematic for many meds, benzos being renowned for it.. Im not sure where GPN stands on that one.. I was ok with it myself it seems, but that was mainly pre benzo taper, -and I also am one that did well with dose corrections (rescue or updoses) on valium too.. (My taper aim was to not over stress or shock my CNS..)

On the other hand, it may be a good correction tool in the proverbial box for some if needed..

Half the trick is working out our own medication and tapering parameters , sadly often by trial, or error.. But mistakes do give info too..

 

Asides if GPN were needed to ease symptoms, then It might be better to first rule out that it cant be better addressed with dose correction and taper speed on the original med (valium in this case).. -over adding an unknown into the mix... -a personal choice..

 

My rough take, and pls correct me if im wrong, is that you were tapering reasonably ok and then got hit hard and suddenly..??

If so, that can be a hell of a shock, and decisions get made to avoid it happening again at all costs..

-I know it has been so for me, more than once..

 

But it could be that your body will adjust and settle fairly quick, maybe with some help if needed..??

Or the other way to put it, is that this “month” might not be the best position to predict the rest of your taper from, or make set long term decisions from..

I guess I feel, at this point, there is a good chance that you can get your taper back on track and Walk Off, -hopefully without extensive or extended post jump issues...

 

I could be way off here, I sure havnt spent the usual time reading your complete posting history and associated threads, nor picking through your sig and asking any questions... Sorry I have been a bit under the weather and dont trust my head much either, so I am being pretty general atm.. -Well, perhaps not that general, I guess...

 

Sorry for the “clunky” post.. And I wish to Acknowledge that there may be people reading who have had a hell of a time with this med, even just a couple of doses.. Im not discounting that..

 

Hope you turn the corner soon.. Which ever way you go about it..

 

thank you Cantlfly. I've just taken the gabapentin at 5:30 am after a totally sleepless night. You know those videos on youtube with people suffering mental torture all night and most of the day? that's me. I had a window yesterday and here I am. Now I calculated that with all the rescue doses last month I had taken a daily average of 2.50. Mary also saw that. So I updosed last night determined to updose to 2.50. The night has been hell all the same. I can't wait another two weeks to see if the updose works. I can't do this, I'm in too much pain and alone. Let's see if the gabapentin works. If it doesn't I don't know what to think really. I'll ditch the trazodone. At least two meds and not three (not that it's doing anything anyways).

Fwiw, that sounds fair to me, -perhaps try to minimise future changes where possible, once sensitive they seem to resemble cuts in their own way .. How the next few days go will give some indications, so keep us posted..

 

What are your GPN doses to be..?

 

[[va...]]

Thank you Cantfly. Yes I should minimize changes but this withdrawal is so severe it doesn't let me think straight. It's bad, man.

 

OK I'll copy what I've posted somewhere else. I'm going to try taking the gabapenting and what I'm not clear is if tomorrow (it's dawn now) tomorrow night I should continue with the 2.5 valium I took last night or back to 1.40 hoping the gabapentin works. This is the mess I did last month:

 

Rescue doses: the aftermath

 

I was tapering around 0.20 mgs valium every two weeks for the past year (yes now I know that was too fast), and I thought I was ok until cutting from 1 to 0.75 on the 1st of June. Then my sxs became very complicated and I didn't know anything about this group or proper tapering. I started taking rescue doses and they were very high. I continued at valium 0.75 (mistake) and in this period of time have taken all these "rescue doses":

 

june 4 zolpidem 0.5

 

June 8 Zompidem 0.5 and bromazepam 1.5

 

June 9 bromazepam 1.5, lorazepam 1

 

June 20 Lorazepam 1

 

July 1 an extra valium 1.40

 

July 2 lorazepam 1

 

During these days since June 4th, I also updosed first to 1 mg and then to 1.40 mgs valium (currently that is my dose).

 

I was feeling better yesterday, after going through the worst two weeks of my life, and thinking the horrid wave was lifting up.

Now I'm getting very bad feelings and I fear going into the same place.

As my mind is not as crazy as the past two weeks, I've been looking at what I've done, and seeing the brutal rescue doses I've taken (especially lorazepam), I'm wondering to what point I was feeling better yesterday/this morning due to the rescue doses and I might be back in hell soon.

 

 

[[Ca...]]

Thank you Cantfly. Yes I should minimize changes but this withdrawal is so severe it doesn't let me think straight. It's bad, man.

 

OK I'll copy what I've posted somewhere else. I'm going to try taking the gabapenting and what I'm not clear is if tomorrow (it's dawn now) tomorrow night I should continue with the 2.5 valium I took last night or back to 1.40 hoping the gabapentin works. This is the mess I did last month:

 

Rescue doses: the aftermath

 

I was tapering around 0.20 mgs valium every two weeks for the past year (yes now I know that was too fast), and I thought I was ok until cutting from 1 to 0.75 on the 1st of June. Then my sxs became very complicated and I didn't know anything about this group or proper tapering. I started taking rescue doses and they were very high. I continued at valium 0.75 (mistake) and in this period of time have taken all these "rescue doses":

 

june 4 zolpidem 0.5

 

June 8 Zompidem 0.5 and bromazepam 1.5

 

June 9 bromazepam 1.5, lorazepam 1

 

June 20 Lorazepam 1

 

July 1 an extra valium 1.40

 

July 2 lorazepam 1

 

During these days since June 4th, I also updosed first to 1 mg and then to 1.40 mgs valium (currently that is my dose).

 

I was feeling better yesterday, after going through the worst two weeks of my life, and thinking the horrid wave was lifting up.

Now I'm getting very bad feelings and I fear going into the same place.

As my mind is not as crazy as the past two weeks, I've been looking at what I've done, and seeing the brutal rescue doses I've taken (especially lorazepam), I'm wondering to what point I was feeling better yesterday/this morning due to the rescue doses and I might be back in hell soon.

Ill jump over to your GPN thread...

But on the updose, A decent “front load” might help, but take some pressure off being stuck at too high a dose.. -Just as a simple eg. One might do a single 3,4, or say 5V dose then drop back to say the 2.5V.. Further changes up or down would depend on how that unfolded..

Its just one option... Nothings perfect, and risks would have to weigh up against just how much SX one is prepared to accept.. I think it a better option to front load and then sit n see (in most instances), than to bounce all over with rescue doses and additional meds never quite knowing what direction one is really headed..

 

The other thing is if it isnt simply just cuts catching up, -I think someone else mentioned that you were at a point where for some it simply just gets hard and takes time.. Perhaps a bit of both..

I guess its the point where past years med history can add to the mix to some extent in sensitive or complex situations too..

 

Anyways, were it me, I would make my choice, take it day by day, and see...  -With a view to getting to a point that I could hold at for an extended period until ready to slowly taper again... All going well..

 

Oops, -I best cook dinner now.. -teens here too..

 

 

 

[[va...]]

Thank you Cantfly. Yes I should minimize changes but this withdrawal is so severe it doesn't let me think straight. It's bad, man.

 

OK I'll copy what I've posted somewhere else. I'm going to try taking the gabapenting and what I'm not clear is if tomorrow (it's dawn now) tomorrow night I should continue with the 2.5 valium I took last night or back to 1.40 hoping the gabapentin works. This is the mess I did last month:

 

Rescue doses: the aftermath

 

I was tapering around 0.20 mgs valium every two weeks for the past year (yes now I know that was too fast), and I thought I was ok until cutting from 1 to 0.75 on the 1st of June. Then my sxs became very complicated and I didn't know anything about this group or proper tapering. I started taking rescue doses and they were very high. I continued at valium 0.75 (mistake) and in this period of time have taken all these "rescue doses":

 

june 4 zolpidem 0.5

 

June 8 Zompidem 0.5 and bromazepam 1.5

 

June 9 bromazepam 1.5, lorazepam 1

 

June 20 Lorazepam 1

 

July 1 an extra valium 1.40

 

July 2 lorazepam 1

 

During these days since June 4th, I also updosed first to 1 mg and then to 1.40 mgs valium (currently that is my dose).

 

I was feeling better yesterday, after going through the worst two weeks of my life, and thinking the horrid wave was lifting up.

Now I'm getting very bad feelings and I fear going into the same place.

As my mind is not as crazy as the past two weeks, I've been looking at what I've done, and seeing the brutal rescue doses I've taken (especially lorazepam), I'm wondering to what point I was feeling better yesterday/this morning due to the rescue doses and I might be back in hell soon.

Ill jump over to your GPN thread...

But on the updose, A decent “front load” might help, but take some pressure off being stuck at too high a dose.. -Just as a simple eg. One might do a single 3,4, or say 5V dose then drop back to say the 2.5V.. Further changes up or down would depend on how that unfolded..

Its just one option... Nothings perfect, and risks would have to weigh up against just how much SX one is prepared to accept.. I think it a better option to front load and then sit n see (in most instances), than to bounce all over with rescue doses and additional meds never quite knowing what direction one is really headed..

 

The other thing is if it isnt simply just cuts catching up, -I think someone else mentioned that you were at a point where for some it simply just gets hard and takes time.. Perhaps a bit of both..

I guess its the point where past years med history can add to the mix to some extent in sensitive or complex situations too..

 

Anyways, were it me, I would make my choice, take it day by day, and see...  -With a view to getting to a point that I could hold at for an extended period until ready to slowly taper again... All going well..

 

Oops, -I best cook dinner now.. -teens here too..

 

 

Thank you Cantly. If I understood correctly, a front load as you call it of 3, 4 or 5 mg valium just one night, is just the same as a rescue dose or am I missing something. I wassaped the psych today to ask if I updose to 2.5 after considering all the rescue doses I did. He said updose from 1.4 to 1.8. Of course he's not the one going through this hell. You've been here for a while. How long can a person be in acute withdrawal? I'm talking about severe anxiety (chemical), my head feels like something is moving inside of it, and due to this severe anxiety I have bezo emotions that are fear, doom sadness, everything multiplied by 1000 so it's impossible to sleep one minute with these intense emotions. Have you ever been like this? I was tapering. Never thought this could happen. I'll take the gabapentin the guy said. He's specialized in addictions, maybe he knows. If I stay in 1.8, how long can it take to stabilize? Months? Never? Isee some people just never get better. An this is lasting much longer than you could expect because it wasn't a CT. Sorry to bother you with my endeavours Cantfly. Desperate people can become pretty annoying.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you Cantfly. Yes I should minimize changes but this withdrawal is so severe it doesn't let me think straight. It's bad, man.

 

OK I'll copy what I've posted somewhere else. I'm going to try taking the gabapenting and what I'm not clear is if tomorrow (it's dawn now) tomorrow night I should continue with the 2.5 valium I took last night or back to 1.40 hoping the gabapentin works. This is the mess I did last month:

 

Rescue doses: the aftermath

 

I was tapering around 0.20 mgs valium every two weeks for the past year (yes now I know that was too fast), and I thought I was ok until cutting from 1 to 0.75 on the 1st of June. Then my sxs became very complicated and I didn't know anything about this group or proper tapering. I started taking rescue doses and they were very high. I continued at valium 0.75 (mistake) and in this period of time have taken all these "rescue doses":

 

june 4 zolpidem 0.5

 

June 8 Zompidem 0.5 and bromazepam 1.5

 

June 9 bromazepam 1.5, lorazepam 1

 

June 20 Lorazepam 1

 

July 1 an extra valium 1.40

 

July 2 lorazepam 1

 

During these days since June 4th, I also updosed first to 1 mg and then to 1.40 mgs valium (currently that is my dose).

 

I was feeling better yesterday, after going through the worst two weeks of my life, and thinking the horrid wave was lifting up.

Now I'm getting very bad feelings and I fear going into the same place.

As my mind is not as crazy as the past two weeks, I've been looking at what I've done, and seeing the brutal rescue doses I've taken (especially lorazepam), I'm wondering to what point I was feeling better yesterday/this morning due to the rescue doses and I might be back in hell soon.

Ill jump over to your GPN thread...

But on the updose, A decent “front load” might help, but take some pressure off being stuck at too high a dose.. -Just as a simple eg. One might do a single 3,4, or say 5V dose then drop back to say the 2.5V.. Further changes up or down would depend on how that unfolded..

Its just one option... Nothings perfect, and risks would have to weigh up against just how much SX one is prepared to accept.. I think it a better option to front load and then sit n see (in most instances), than to bounce all over with rescue doses and additional meds never quite knowing what direction one is really headed..

 

The other thing is if it isnt simply just cuts catching up, -I think someone else mentioned that you were at a point where for some it simply just gets hard and takes time.. Perhaps a bit of both..

I guess its the point where past years med history can add to the mix to some extent in sensitive or complex situations too..

 

Anyways, were it me, I would make my choice, take it day by day, and see...  -With a view to getting to a point that I could hold at for an extended period until ready to slowly taper again... All going well..

 

Oops, -I best cook dinner now.. -teens here too..

 

 

Thank you Cantly. If I understood correctly, a front load as you call it of 3, 4 or 5 mg valium just one night, is just the same as a rescue dose or am I missing something. I wassaped the psych today to ask if I updose to 2.5 after considering all the rescue doses I did. He said updose from 1.4 to 1.8. Of course he's not the one going through this hell. You've been here for a while. How long can a person be in acute withdrawal? I'm talking about severe anxiety (chemical), my head feels like something is moving inside of it, and due to this severe anxiety I have bezo emotions that are fear, doom sadness, everything multiplied by 1000 so it's impossible to sleep one minute with these intense emotions. Have you ever been like this? I was tapering. Never thought this could happen. I'll take the gabapentin the guy said. He's specialized in addictions, maybe he knows. If I stay in 1.8, how long can it take to stabilize? Months? Never? Isee some people just never get better. An this is lasting much longer than you could expect because it wasn't a CT. Sorry to bother you with my endeavours Cantfly. Desperate people can become pretty annoying.

 

Vali, one thing I would recommend is that you add all those doses up in the equivalent of Valium so your actual updose is more obvious, the way you have it written doesn't give people the actual updose you did.  Can't suggests over updosing and coming down, which is certainly a plan, truthfully, I am worried that in your state right now, you won't come back down and you will be at 5 mgs.  Either way, I wish you luck. 

[[va...]]

Hi Mary, you're an angel watching over me. Ok, in a while I'll do that. I'll convert my updos ing history to the Valium equivalent. Yes I understand, another rescue dose to 5 is what Cantfly mentions? But look at all the rescue doses i did and here I am, in the same place. I will updose. Probably to 1.8 like the psychiatrist said or 2.5 like you said. I'll think about it. However, I've thrown the gabapentin down the toilet. Don't want to get hooked on that crap and two days are enough to realize it does NOTHING to improve my withdrawals.

[[ga...]]

Sorry, all the complicated discussion of meds and doses is a bit much for me to follow. I'll just pitch in two thoughts.

 

• My doctor told me "The brain likes predictability." Constantly changing meds/doses is going to make you worse, not better.
   
   
  
• Waves and windows are a normal part of this process. Acceptance of that is the key to successful tapering.
  

 

Wishing a peaceful day to all.

 

Gardie

[[va...]]

Sorry, all the complicated discussion of meds and doses is a bit much for me to follow. I'll just pitch in two thoughts.

 

• My doctor told me "The brain likes predictability." Constantly changing meds/doses is going to make you worse, not better.
   
   
  
• Waves and windows are a normal part of this process. Acceptance of that is the key to successful tapering.
  

 

Wishing a peaceful day to all.

 

Gardie

 

Thank you for this Gardie, it summarizes it perfectly. I've been doing just the opposite. I'd never been like this with mental akathisia and it's hard to be discipljined in this state of mind 😔

[[ga...]]

Sorry, all the complicated discussion of meds and doses is a bit much for me to follow. I'll just pitch in two thoughts.

 

• My doctor told me "The brain likes predictability." Constantly changing meds/doses is going to make you worse, not better.
   
   
  
• Waves and windows are a normal part of this process. Acceptance of that is the key to successful tapering.
  

 

Wishing a peaceful day to all.

 

Gardie

 

Thank you for this Gardie, it summarizes it perfectly. I've been doing just the opposite. I'd never been like this with mental akathisia and it's hard to be discipljined in this state of mind 😔

 

The brain jumping around is hard. I get more of brain freezing these days. I find that sticking big notes on my refrigerator and/or bathroom mirror helps. The one I have now says:

 

Do not think.

Distract.

• Watch video.
  
• Drink tea.
  
• Play scrabble app.
  

 

I am also not a fan of rescue doses except in exceptional circumstances, such as needing to take a plane somewhere or go to a funeral or such. If you need more than one rescue dose, you probably really need an updose and long hold.

 

And I would also suggest finding a distraction that has nothing whatsoever to do with your taper. Distract and let time pass. Let time pass. Let time pass. (Another note I often stick up somewhere.)

 

Please remember, you have had a window. You will have waves. You will have windows again. During a wave, hang onto the memory of your window and know it will return.

 

 

Gardie

[[va...]]

 

Ok for Mary who asked me to put the rescue doses with the valium equivalent, and for anyone else who might be interested:

 

Rescue doses: the aftermath

 

I was tapering around 0.20 mgs valium every two weeks for the past year (yes now I know that was too fast), and I thought I was ok until cutting from 1 to 0.75 on the 1st of June. Then my sxs became very complicated and I didn't know anything about this group or proper tapering. I started taking rescue doses  IN MAY and they were very high. I continued tapering down to  valium 0.75 (mistake) and in this period of time have taken all these "rescue doses":

 

 

 

May 6 bromazepam 1.5 =    valium 3

 

May 20 bromazepam 3 =      valium 6

 

May 21 bromazepam 1.5 =    valium 3

 

May 26 bromazepam 1,5 0    valium 3

 

june 4 zolpidem 10 =          valium 5

 

June 8 Zompidem 10 =        valium 5

 

June 8 bromazepam 1.5 =    valium 3

 

June 9 bromazepam 1.5 =    valium 3

 

June 9 lorazepam 1 =          valium 10

 

June 19                              valium 3

 

June 20 Lorazepam 1 =      valium 10

 

July 1 an extra                    valium 1.40

 

July 2 lorazepam 1 =            valium 10

 

ALL THIS ADDS 65.40 THAT DIVIDED BY 60 DAYS OF TWO MONTHS, EQUALS 1.09

 

So I've been taking 1.09 mgs valium a day (concentrated in these rescue doses), during these two months, apart from my valium dose (which was 1.25, then 1 and then 1.40.

 

SO MARY IF WE ADD 1.09 TO 1.40 WE GET 2.49, SO YOUR APPROACH LAST NIGHT OF UPDOSING TO 2.50 MAKES SENSE. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

Last night July 7th = took valium 2.5 (updosing was on my mind, not rescue dose)

During these days since June 4th, I also updosed first to 1 mg and then to 1.40 mgs valium (that has been my dose since June 20th).

 

IN LIGHT OF THIS MESS, WHERE SHOULD I UPDOSE?? I'M IN SEVERE WITHDRAWAL, MENTAL AKATHISIA AND SLEEP IS NONEXISTENT.

 

My goal is to be functional as soon as it can be. To hell with the taper now.

 

Should I updose to 2.5?? Another amount would be better?

 

I've thrown the gabapentin down the toilet and I'm doubting I will take the trazodone. I'd rather had stayed on valium all my life than go through this and be put on more crap.

 

Thank you all for your patience.

 

 

[[ga...]]

I want to say I agree with "to hell with the taper, I want to be functional." You've come a long way with your first taper. Get functional. Taper again when you are functional.

 

I will look at your numbers, but numbers aren't my thing! Have you considered posting this on the main withdrawal support board as its own topic?

[[va...]]

I want to say I agree with "to hell with the taper, I want to be functional." You've come along way with your first tape. Get functional. Taper again when you are functional.

 

I will look at your numbers, but numbers aren't my thing! Have you considered posting this on the main withdrawal support board as its own topic?

 

Oh that's a great idea Gardener! I will. But I really want to hear Mary's and Cantfly's opinion. Thank you for supporting me so much. To hell with math too. I imagine you with millions of useful skills and very artistic. That's how I picture you.

[[ga...]]

Val, my gut feeling is all the dose changes have contributed to your wave. Your signature says have updosed to 2.5. That may do it. Stay there. But it will also take time. You are very unstable. You need time, not just an updose.

 

I have only ever done one tiny updose, so I am not that much help. Cant and Mary will have thoughts, but Cant is having a rough time and does not always post. I would still consider posting this on the main withdrawal board, showing all your dose changes. And then ignore all the people warning about tolerance. I don't think that's what's happening. I think the dose changes are what caused your problem.

 

P.S. Trazodone seems to be a doctor favorite. It helps some. It did nothing for me.

 

P.P.S. I just noticed you tapered lexapro shortly before the Valium. Can't tell if you waited one month or two moths before starting the next taper, but that's another complication.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Mary, Gard..  -Same thoughts here..

 

Val, Sorry its rough, but first know it will get better.. But it will take time from here on in..

You asked about how common and how long for this type of intensity and symptoms.. Sorry the reality is that its part of WD.. Not totally manageable all the time, and downright nasty at other times...

Many people here will relate to how you feel..

 

There are a lot of “what ifs” in play right now.. It is my hope that you will get more of an indication as to whats going on in the coming days.. The suggestion to front load was in part to try and force some info out of a change.. But I didnt realise that your existing rescue doses were as high as they were, even as equivalents... Mary M obviously picked up on that, -Thanks..

 

Which in my opinion puts us back to what Gard just wrote..

Stability, acceptance, distraction -and hope... plus time..

 

Perhaps settle in and see what tomorrow brings...

 

 

 

 

[[va...]]

Thanks Mary, Gard..  -Same thoughts here..

 

Val, Sorry its rough, but first know it will get better.. But it will take time from here on in..

You asked about how common and how long for this type of intensity and symptoms.. Sorry the reality is that its part of WD.. Not totally manageable all the time, and downright nasty at other times...

Many people here will relate to how you feel..

 

There are a lot of “what ifs” in play right now.. It is my hope that you will get more of an indication as to whats going on in the coming days.. The suggestion to front load was in part to try and force some info out of a change.. But I didnt realise that your existing rescue doses were as high as they were, even as equivalents... Mary M obviously picked up on that, -Thanks..

 

Which in my opinion puts us back to what Gard just wrote..

Stability, acceptance, distraction -and hope... plus time..

 

Perhaps settle in and see what tomorrow brings...

 

Thank you guys.

 

I'm realizing that with the average made taking into account the rescue doses, my dose is already 2.5, so 2.5 would not be an updose. I'm looking through my journal and I was having clear signs of withdrawal from 3.75 mgs and kept pushing through. Below 3.75 it's all wds wds, but I didn't know they were benzo wds and kept pushing (anxiety, nausea, sadness, headache), and kept pushing. I was never stable below 3.75. My current dose with all the rescues would equate to 2.5 so 2.5 is not an updose. I'm thinking updose to where I was ok, which was 3.75. I don't want to risk updosing not enough and prolong this agony. Of course theres a posibility that this won't work and that I'm damned forever right?

[[va...]]

Sorry, all the complicated discussion of meds and doses is a bit much for me to follow. I'll just pitch in two thoughts.

 

• My doctor told me "The brain likes predictability." Constantly changing meds/doses is going to make you worse, not better.
   
   
  
• Waves and windows are a normal part of this process. Acceptance of that is the key to successful tapering.
  

 

Wishing a peaceful day to all.

 

Gardie

 

Thank you for this Gardie, it summarizes it perfectly. I've been doing just the opposite. I'd never been like this with mental akathisia and it's hard to be discipljined in this state of mind 😔

 

The brain jumping around is hard. I get more of brain freezing these days. I find that sticking big notes on my refrigerator and/or bathroom mirror helps. The one I have now says:

 

Do not think.

Distract.

• Watch video.
  
• Drink tea.
  
• Play scrabble app.
  

 

I am also not a fan of rescue doses except in exceptional circumstances, such as needing to take a plane somewhere or go to a funeral or such. If you need more than one rescue dose, you probably really need an updose and long hold.

 

And I would also suggest finding a distraction that has nothing whatsoever to do with your taper. Distract and let time pass. Let time pass. Let time pass. (Another note I often stick up somewhere.)

 

Please remember, you have had a window. You will have waves. You will have windows again. During a wave, hang onto the memory of your window and know it will return.

 

 

Gardie

 

Gardie this post of yours is so incredibly uplifting that I'm printing it to have it at hand all the time 

[[va...]]

Cantfly I didn't know you were having a hard time. I hope life gives you a break whatever you're going through. You've been through enough, I'd be expecting some peace at this point right dear Lord?

 

OK I'm updosing to 3.75, I explain in previous post the reasoning behind this. Already cut the pills. Cantfly you say that there are many people like me. I only see the mental akathisia in the cold turkey forums. I mean realize I sleep NOTHING because these overwhelming emotions of fear and sadness are too intense to shut your eyes more than a second. It's torture. Trust me there's not many people like this here. Peole talk about having coffee, sleeping "ONLY" three four five hours (I'd kill for three hours of sleep). Anyway it is what it is what can I do... I know there are people who updose and it doesn't work. I'm dreading that option and to stay like this forever oh shite! How long does an updose start working? A month? Gosh I don't know how I'm going to go another month like this. Why did I ever start this taper is beyond me right now.

 

Cantfly, Gardener, thank you for being there. You guys have your own troubles.

[[ga...]]

Thanks Mary, Gard..  -Same thoughts here..

 

Val, Sorry its rough, but first know it will get better.. But it will take time from here on in..

You asked about how common and how long for this type of intensity and symptoms.. Sorry the reality is that its part of WD.. Not totally manageable all the time, and downright nasty at other times...

Many people here will relate to how you feel..

 

There are a lot of “what ifs” in play right now.. It is my hope that you will get more of an indication as to whats going on in the coming days.. The suggestion to front load was in part to try and force some info out of a change.. But I didnt realise that your existing rescue doses were as high as they were, even as equivalents... Mary M obviously picked up on that, -Thanks..

 

Which in my opinion puts us back to what Gard just wrote..

Stability, acceptance, distraction -and hope... plus time..

 

Perhaps settle in and see what tomorrow brings...

 

Thank you guys.

 

I'm realizing that with the average made taking into account the rescue doses, my dose is already 2.5, so 2.5 would not be an updose. I'm looking through my journal and I was having clear signs of withdrawal from 3.75 mgs and kept pushing through. Below 3.75 it's all wds wds, but I didn't know they were benzo wds and kept pushing (anxiety, nausea, sadness, headache), and kept pushing. I was never stable below 3.75. My current dose with all the rescues would equate to 2.5 so 2.5 is not an updose. I'm thinking updose to where I was ok, which was 3.75. I don't want to risk updosing not enough and prolong this agony. Of course theres a posibility that this won't work and that I'm damned forever right?

 

I know the general advice is to go back to where you felt the symptoms were tolerable, so that's worth a try. I would be hesitant to go higher. But remember it will take time to stabilize because of all the rescue doses. Let time pass. When I feel I have to do something, I remind myself that I don't. I just need to let time pass.

[[va...]]

Thanks Mary, Gard..  -Same thoughts here..

 

Val, Sorry its rough, but first know it will get better.. But it will take time from here on in..

You asked about how common and how long for this type of intensity and symptoms.. Sorry the reality is that its part of WD.. Not totally manageable all the time, and downright nasty at other times...

Many people here will relate to how you feel..

 

There are a lot of “what ifs” in play right now.. It is my hope that you will get more of an indication as to whats going on in the coming days.. The suggestion to front load was in part to try and force some info out of a change.. But I didnt realise that your existing rescue doses were as high as they were, even as equivalents... Mary M obviously picked up on that, -Thanks..

 

Which in my opinion puts us back to what Gard just wrote..

Stability, acceptance, distraction -and hope... plus time..

 

Perhaps settle in and see what tomorrow brings...

 

Thank you guys.

 

I'm realizing that with the average made taking into account the rescue doses, my dose is already 2.5, so 2.5 would not be an updose. I'm looking through my journal and I was having clear signs of withdrawal from 3.75 mgs and kept pushing through. Below 3.75 it's all wds wds, but I didn't know they were benzo wds and kept pushing (anxiety, nausea, sadness, headache), and kept pushing. I was never stable below 3.75. My current dose with all the rescues would equate to 2.5 so 2.5 is not an updose. I'm thinking updose to where I was ok, which was 3.75. I don't want to risk updosing not enough and prolong this agony. Of course theres a posibility that this won't work and that I'm damned forever right?

 

I know the general advice is to go back to where you felt the symptoms were tolerable, so that's worth a try. I would be hesitant to go higher. But remember it will take time to stabilize because of all the rescue doses. Let time pass. When I feel I have to do something, I remind myself that I don't. I just need to let time pass.

 

Thank you for the advice and for your honesty Gardener. How long can it take?

[[ga...]]

I almost missed this, Val. No you are not damned forever. I got better. Even people who cold turkey get better. Be kind to yourself. when those thoughts come. Like this, "It's natural I'm having these scary thoughts, but thoughts are not facts."

[[ga...]]

Thanks Mary, Gard..  -Same thoughts here..

 

Val, Sorry its rough, but first know it will get better.. But it will take time from here on in..

You asked about how common and how long for this type of intensity and symptoms.. Sorry the reality is that its part of WD.. Not totally manageable all the time, and downright nasty at other times...

Many people here will relate to how you feel..

 

There are a lot of “what ifs” in play right now.. It is my hope that you will get more of an indication as to whats going on in the coming days.. The suggestion to front load was in part to try and force some info out of a change.. But I didnt realise that your existing rescue doses were as high as they were, even as equivalents... Mary M obviously picked up on that, -Thanks..

 

Which in my opinion puts us back to what Gard just wrote..

Stability, acceptance, distraction -and hope... plus time..

 

Perhaps settle in and see what tomorrow brings...

 

Thank you guys.

 

I'm realizing that with the average made taking into account the rescue doses, my dose is already 2.5, so 2.5 would not be an updose. I'm looking through my journal and I was having clear signs of withdrawal from 3.75 mgs and kept pushing through. Below 3.75 it's all wds wds, but I didn't know they were benzo wds and kept pushing (anxiety, nausea, sadness, headache), and kept pushing. I was never stable below 3.75. My current dose with all the rescues would equate to 2.5 so 2.5 is not an updose. I'm thinking updose to where I was ok, which was 3.75. I don't want to risk updosing not enough and prolong this agony. Of course theres a posibility that this won't work and that I'm damned forever right?

 

I know the general advice is to go back to where you felt the symptoms were tolerable, so that's worth a try. I would be hesitant to go higher. But remember it will take time to stabilize because of all the rescue doses. Let time pass. When I feel I have to do something, I remind myself that I don't. I just need to let time pass.

 

Thank you for the advice and for your honesty Gardener. How long can it take?

 

This is all over the place. When I held without an updose it took several months before I noticed improvement. You might ask the Long Hold group. There's an updose group, too, but I'm not sure they're active.

[[va...]]

I almost missed this, Val. No you are not damned forever. I got better. Even people who cold turkey get better. Be kind to yourself. when those thoughts come. Like this, "It's natural I'm having these scary thoughts, but thoughts are not facts."

 

But this is my third time off the drug. Once 14 years ago, had only taken if for a few months. Second about 5 years ago, I tapered and it was quite easy. And NOW this one. IDK. do updoses usually work the relieve the wds? How much did you updose? Were you in severe wd like I am?

 

Sorry Gardener I'm full of fears and stuff.