Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [Ro...]]

That's great hereforhelp! Let us know how you come along with it!

[[me...]]

Hi,

 

I need help with a daily microtaper schedule off 6mg of valium. I have done water tapers in the past. Want to get off by the end of the year--is that realistic?

[[...]]

If you follow this video link you'll get off at 300 days and I think that's a very Safe way to do it.

 

[[he...]]

Hey Bob, do you have a good recommendation for tweezers with the bent tips like you have in your video? We all know everything on Amazon is not made equally. I need a way to grab the capsule without adding weight from my fingers when I need to remove powder. So far I'm having some issues on my first day of capsules. I've felt very off and my usual symptoms have changed. I'm hoping it's just some sort of transition period and that I can tolerate this. Thank you in advance.

[[...]]

Sorry, I bought those tweezers years ago and cannot recall the maker.  Try reading the reviews section for the tweezers you are looking at on Amazon.  Those reviews can be very helpful.

 

I do have a observation about your transition symptoms.

 

I have seen others switching from dry to liquid or liquid to dry have increased symptoms on the very first day of the change.  This is odd because benzos stay in the system a long time.  One would think, any problems from the change might require 3 to 7 days to kick in (3 to 7  days is often the time to feel a taper reduction).

 

I suspect what you are feeling is anxiety about change.

My doctor says, anxiety can create a host of problems which feel like benzo symptoms.

 

Look for natural ways to reduce anxiety (YouTube videos on anxiety and meditation are good) or find something to distract you from you big change.

 

[[he...]]

Thanks for your help, Bob7. I'll find a good pair. Just have to look through all the fake reviews.

 

Yeah, I gave two liquid formulations a chance, because I knew how easy they would be to dose. With the compounded one, I gave it three days, but things just got worse every day. By day three, my head was floating, which was reminiscent of the symptoms I had had after my biggest cut during the cut-and-hold days. Except with that, it didn't happen until a week or more into the cut, so with it happening on day three, I decided I was experiencing a much bigger cut. Plus I was doing some liquid and the rest tablet, so I figured every time I changed part of a tablet to liquid, I would go through the same thing, if I even got through the first transition.

 

I'm hopeful today is better than yesterday on the capsules and that this is just some light transition and anxiety about the change. I really need this to work for me.

 

It doesn't help that I have the variable of the calcium-channel blocker I take that increases serum levels of other medications and is very sensitive timing of absorption. I think that's why the liquids didn't work: they absorbed too quickly, and the heart medicine didn't raise the levels of the clonazepam as high because of it. All speculation but definitely possible.

 

Thanks again!

[[he...]]

Today has been really hard. I've been in a thick fog since before 10 am, and it's nearly 2:30pm. Of course now my fear is that my doses when I was using a file weren't accurate, and now this is accurate and is a huge updose, or the timing of absorption is different enough that my heart medicine is making my blood serum level of clonazepam even higher than it was before. I have to just get through this. Surely it's just a transition period. I was just hoping it would be easier.

[[...]]

No mater what you decide to do with your taper, give it time.

I promise, things change in time.

As benzo victims, we do not always remember better days.

It is important to keep a journal so you can reassure yourself - having a bad days does not mean all the rest of your days will be bad.

[[he...]]

Thanks, Bob7. It's so hard to remember that. As soon as a really bad day hits, it's so easy to think you've lost all progress and are back at square one. What you said is very true. I do keep a journal of my symptoms on my phone and write them in my taper journal for that day.

[[St...]]

whitebeach,

 

You are almost at the finish line.  Do not give up.  You have good reason to hope.  So many have gone before you.  Read the success stories online.

 

Trust in the gift of time.  In time, this will pass.  Once your reach zero, you may still feel symptoms for a while but as each month passes, you will be better and better.

 

For now, try to eliminate all external stress.  Stress creates anxiety and anxiety feeds the symptoms.

 

Also, make a list of short goals to accomplish.  Each day, finish one and then feel the blessings of accomplishment. 

 

Also, getting a therapist can be very useful to improve your sleep with cognitive behavioral therapy and other tools.  You must find non-drug ways to cope now that you don't have the drug. 

 

Are you sleeping reasonably?

 

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for your support. It is hell right now. The dizziness is the worst ever. I am sleeping 4-5 hours but feel awful on waking.

 

 

WHITEBEACH:

 

I have a question, what did they do for you at the er after your cold turkey of 10mg valium? I'm on 5.6mg and I am still feeling interdose withdrawals and am miserable 😭 only been on benzos (ati) since Dec, tapered once then was reinstated at er 1mg, tapering again since beginning of march now switched to liquid val and hating it but i'm at 5.6mg split into 3 doses and still little relief. Insomnia muscle weakness no apetite and nausea being my worst symptoms.

[[he...]]

I really feel like I've updosed or something. I feel more sedated and just all-around weird. Is it possible that's what I'm experiencing in going to powder, which absorbs faster into my system? If it is essentially an updose, is it wise to wait it out until I feel more stable? I don't want to lose some of what I've gained in this taper.

 

Also, powder supposedly is absorbed quicker and may not last as long. Did anyone experience the effects wearing off more quickly? I'd like to go to one dose a day, and I'm afraid it'll be even harder if the dose isn't lasting me as long.

 

I really want this to work, but I have my concerns. Yesterday was really bad with a six-hour-long fog, and the other two days I've been doing this just felt weird. It's hard not to be nervous about it.

[[...]]

Perhaps this might help you concerning if powder is more quickly absorbed.

 

First, I did not experience it.

 

Second, if breaking up the pill was an issue, I think it would also be seen by those doing liquid tapers.  They break down the pill into water and drink it.  Yet we do not see a rash of concerns related to your experience.

 

If today is better than yesterday, mark that down as progress and hang in there.

 

[[he...]]

Well, there are a number of people, including myself, who couldn't tolerate liquid suspensions, even professionally compounded and others who had trouble at first and had to go through a transition period, akin to a cut, with a liquid. Some people are just more sensitive to changes, and I'm unfortunately one of them.

 

But I'm sticking to it for now, and hopefully I end up stabilizing and can continue tapering. Surely that will happen soon.

 

Thank you for your response and encouragement, Bob. Your advice, lived experience, and resources you've offered those of us dry tapering are much appreciated.

[[...]]

Yes, you do sound like in the more sensitive group.

I am sorry it is hard for you.

Perhaps since changes impact you so quickly, they will also resolve faster too?  I hope so for you.

 

[[he...]]

Thank you, Bob. I was hoping it would be as easy for me as it was for you and RodgerThat, but I'm hopeful and I'm doing a lot of praying that this will work for me. I think I picked a bad week to try this. We have a multi-hour road trip coming this weekend to go to my aunt's "celebration of life" service after she passed last November, and we have some issues with our house (water showing up in the floor) that are raising my stress level just a bit.

[[St...]]

New question: am I supposed to be diluting this liquid Valium? I read somewhere that i'm supposed to be dropping my dosage into some water or juice or something. I've been taking it to the head and maybe thats why its hitting me like a truck?! LoL also is diluting the liquid Valium in water a way I can do a daily liquid micro taper?

[[...]]

StrongLikeThis,

 

Something seems wrong.

 

In early March, you started a dry taper with two 0.5mg pills (total weight 0.120 grams).

 

Just before the liquid taper, you got down to 0.104 gram by weight which is 0.86 mg of drug.

 

So what does it mean when you say you are at 3mg of liquid valium twice a day.  That is 6 mg total but of what?    6mg is much greater than the 0.86 mg of dry pills.

 

I never used liquid valium so perhaps someone else can help us.

 

Exactly what does you liquid valium bottle say (what is written on it?  what instructions does it have?)

 

[[St...]]

StrongLikeThis,

 

Something seems wrong.

 

In early March, you started a dry taper with two 0.5mg pills (total weight 0.120 grams).

 

Just before the liquid taper, you got down to 0.104 gram by weight which is 0.86 mg of drug.

 

So what does it mean when you say you are at 3mg of liquid valium twice a day.  That is 6 mg total but of what?    6mg is much greater than the 0.86 mg of dry pills.

 

I never used liquid valium so perhaps someone else can help us.

 

Exactly what does you liquid valium bottle say (what is written on it?  what instructions does it have?)

 

 

Ok so when I crossed over my psych told me that my equivalent to the 0.104g weight of both Ativan pills was 0.433mg of meds total which in turn was 6.4mg of valium equivalent. So she wrote my prescription for 3.2mg liquid Valium 2x/day and since I suck at math and have no idea how to convert the weight to the dosages I trusted her. Omg did she set me at a way higher number than necessary??

[[Li...]]

StrongLikeThis:

 

Just checking …

 

Is the liquid you are using one of the commercially manufactured oral diazepam solutions or a compounded liquid?

 

What is the concentration of the liquid?

 

Is it 5mg/5mL (i.e., 1mg/1mL)?

 

 

[[St...]]

StrongLikeThis:

 

Just checking …

 

Is the liquid you are using one of the commercially manufactured oral diazepam solutions or a compounded liquid?

 

What is the concentration of the liquid?

 

Is it 5mg/5mL (i.e., 1mg/1mL)?

 

Commercially manufactured, and it says 5mg/5mL

[[...]]

StrongLikeThis,

 

Something seems wrong.

 

In early March, you started a dry taper with two 0.5mg pills (total weight 0.120 grams).

 

Just before the liquid taper, you got down to 0.104 gram by weight which is 0.86 mg of drug.

 

So what does it mean when you say you are at 3mg of liquid valium twice a day.  That is 6 mg total but of what?    6mg is much greater than the 0.86 mg of dry pills.

 

I never used liquid valium so perhaps someone else can help us.

 

Exactly what does you liquid valium bottle say (what is written on it?  what instructions does it have?)

 

 

Ok so when I crossed over my psych told me that my equivalent to the 0.104g weight of both Ativan pills was 0.433mg of meds total which in turn was 6.4mg of valium equivalent. So she wrote my prescription for 3.2mg liquid Valium 2x/day and since I suck at math and have no idea how to convert the weight to the dosages I trusted her. Omg did she set me at a way higher number than necessary??

 

I am glad Libertas joined on the liquid concentration and also to look at the following math.

 

I think you psych actually under dosed you.

 

Given a 0.5mg pill weighs 0.06 grams (IS THIS TRUE?)

 

If you were taking 0.104 grams of cut up pills, then:

 

(0.104 grams of pills) times (0.5mg of drug in a pill) divided (0.06 grams) equals 0.866 mg drug.

 

But your psych told you it would be 0.433 mg

 

So you seem to be getting 1/2 what you used to get.

 

That is, the psych converted 0.433mg of Ativan to 6.4mg of valium

But I think they should have converted from 0.866 mg of Ativan

 

In short, if anything, you are under dosed.

 

You should show this math to your doctor.  I AM NOT A DOCTOR.

 

 

[[St...]]

StrongLikeThis,

 

Something seems wrong.

 

In early March, you started a dry taper with two 0.5mg pills (total weight 0.120 grams).

 

Just before the liquid taper, you got down to 0.104 gram by weight which is 0.86 mg of drug.

 

So what does it mean when you say you are at 3mg of liquid valium twice a day.  That is 6 mg total but of what?    6mg is much greater than the 0.86 mg of dry pills.

 

I never used liquid valium so perhaps someone else can help us.

 

Exactly what does you liquid valium bottle say (what is written on it?  what instructions does it have?)

 

 

Ok so when I crossed over my psych told me that my equivalent to the 0.104g weight of both Ativan pills was 0.433mg of meds total which in turn was 6.4mg of valium equivalent. So she wrote my prescription for 3.2mg liquid Valium 2x/day and since I suck at math and have no idea how to convert the weight to the dosages I trusted her. Omg did she set me at a way higher number than necessary??

 

I am glad Libertas joined on the liquid concentration and also to look at the following math.

 

I think you psych actually under dosed you.

 

Given a 0.5mg pill weighs 0.06 grams (IS THIS TRUE?)

 

If you were taking 0.104 grams of cut up pills, then:

 

(0.104 grams of pills) times (0.5mg of drug in a pill) divided (0.06 grams) equals 0.866 mg drug.

 

But your psych told you it would be 0.433 mg

 

So you seem to be getting 1/2 what you used to get.

 

That is, the psych converted 0.433mg of Ativan to 6.4mg of valium

But I think they should have converted from 0.866 mg of Ativan

 

In short, if anything, you are under dosed.

 

You should show this math to your doctor.  I AM NOT A DOCTOR.

Thank you so much for even replying and trying to offer help. I will show her! How exactly do you do the math of medicine dosage vs pill weight? How do you convert or figure that out?

[[...]]

You first weigh one of your pills (you told me your pill weighed 0.06 grams).

Then, we know each pill has 0.5mg of drug in it.

 

Let X = the weight on your scale of whatever chuck of pill you put on it.

 

Then your drug in mg = X times 0.5 divided by 0.06

 

 

[[St...]]

You first weigh one of your pills (you told me your pill weighed 0.06 grams).

Then, we know each pill has 0.5mg of drug in it.

 

Let X = the weight on your scale of whatever chuck of pill you put on it.

 

Then your drug in mg = X times 0.5 divided by 0.06

 

Ohhh okay got it!! You're the best Bob thanks! So I guess thats why i'm not really feeling like the transition was "smooth" or like the valium is evening out. My worst symptoms are loss of sleep, adrenaline surges, heightened anxiety, nausea, light/sound sensitivity and head tightness. Im probably already in withdrawal and will probably take forever to "stabilize" and i'm never updosing , so I figure i'll keep trucking through and tapering cause i'm already in the hell. I also am suspected to have POTS but I believe its alllllll this benzo. Either way, I know getting this stuff out my system is still a great choice as literally since i've started the valium I was instantly bed bound and have been since (april 9th) i say why stop now....might as well keep the train moving i'm at 5.6mg total split in 3 doses/day

[[...]]

You first weigh one of your pills (you told me your pill weighed 0.06 grams).

Then, we know each pill has 0.5mg of drug in it.

 

Let X = the weight on your scale of whatever chuck of pill you put on it.

 

Then your drug in mg = X times 0.5 divided by 0.06

 

Ohhh okay got it!! You're the best Bob thanks! So I guess thats why i'm not really feeling like the transition was "smooth" or like the valium is evening out. My worst symptoms are loss of sleep, adrenaline surges, heightened anxiety, nausea, light/sound sensitivity and head tightness. Im probably already in withdrawal and will probably take forever to "stabilize" and i'm never updosing , so I figure i'll keep trucking through and tapering cause i'm already in the hell. I also am suspected to have POTS but I believe its alllllll this benzo. Either way, I know getting this stuff out my system is still a great choice as literally since i've started the valium I was instantly bed bound and have been since (april 9th) i say why stop now....might as well keep the train moving i'm at 5.6mg total split in 3 doses/day

There was one time in my year long taper where I tapered too fast.

The anxiety symptoms were extreme.

My doctor gave me Buspar which I used for perhaps 4 to 8 weeks while I held my taper constant.

It took about 8 weeks before the symptoms were tolerable enough to continue my taper.  At that point, I stopped the buspar with no problems.