Need supportive words...

[[Si...]]

Thanks as always aloha!

 

I think some of it may be the PTSD rearing it's ugly head for me. I'm so scarred by that experience. Not only will I never forget it, it's always right in the back of my mind about it coming back. I've actually had a few occasions where I've had a good bit of alcohol. While the hangover would be considered a lot worse than what I normally use to have, it's also possible that I just don't drink like I use too (with good reason). Most of the time I may have 1 – 3 beers and then not drink any more for about 4 weeks. There have been a few occasions (such as last Friday) where I take it a little too far. Up until now it hasn't seem to greatly impact my sleep. But I know this stuff can be sneaky. Of course there could have been other factors involved too.

 

So sorry you're having some problems! Something similar happened to my mom after she had knee surgery. She had trouble sleeping for a few months, even though her knee mostly felt better after about 6 weeks. She did eventually get back to her normally scheduled programming (LOL).

 

I'm sure we'll both be back on track soon. Have a great trip to Chicago. I've only been once. We have friends that moved there a few months ago from Oakland, CA. Their four year old daughter said, "Why does everyone look so unhappy?".  Talk about culture shock. :D

[Guest [Th...]]

Hi Guys

 

Sorry you are still having problems so far out.  This does not give me much hope.  If you guys are 19 and 30 months out and still having issues, I feel like I am doomed to a life of shitty to no sleep. 

[[bl...]]

My sleep has been erratic lately, some nights recently I've logged less than 4 hours, and that being light, dreamy, skim sleep (as I've come to call it). I don't think I've gotten more than 5 hours at any point over the past wekk. I was in the midst of some serious sleep dep as of yesterday, but I've gotten a lot better at paying attention to other things than my mental exhaustion. I just keep on keeping on, instead of paying attention to how tired I am, I kind of try to build on it by being as active as possible and engaging my brain even though its natural inclination is to avoid action.

 

I've started working on destressing my life, or more accurately, reducing it and changing my reaction to it (it's impossible to eliminate it). I'm also implementing sleep hygiene and cbt-i (avoiding stimulating activity, watching what I eat before bed, staying out of bed until it is time to sleep, keeping my time in bed as short as possible). I just want to focus on not focusing on sleep. Seems like whenever my thoughts are dominated by how much I want it, I get less and less of it, like love or money.

 

It appears it's working though, not only has my dp/dr lessened a great deal but my digestive issues have almost vanished, and last night I slept like a rock. I can't remember any dreams. I know, one night isn't a trend, but I take heart at the simple fact that I can even sleep at all. A year ago at this time, I wasn't sleeping most nights, or when I was sleeping it was toxic skim sleep to the extreme (I remember it feeling like my entire head was on fire, my eyes would burn, I thought I was going to die).

 

At this point, I don't think my benzo history affects my sleep as much as environmental, stress, and other factors like my PTSD.

 

Anyway, I just thought I'd chime in and let you all know that while it fluctuates from week to week, it will get better. That I can sleep is a minor miracle in itself. I think I just need to retrain myself, like sort of sleep rehab, and learn how to sleep every night, but also not freak out when I don't because I'm going to live many more years and I'm bound to have bad nights here and there. I figure if I get all stressed out whenever I don't sleep well, that will only exacerbate it, so one or two nights will turn into 3, 4, or 5. Stress is really the mitigating factor in all this, the less I stress, the better I feel overall, period.

[[al...]]

Hi Guys

 

Sorry you are still having problems so far out.  This does not give me much hope.  If you guys are 19 and 30 months out and still having issues, I feel like I am doomed to a life of shitty to no sleep.

 

Probably not a lifetime, but maybe 19 to 30 months. Just remember, for us it wasn't 19 to 30 months of terrible sleep. the bad periods come and go. Maybe the holidays are over stimulating some of us a bit. Perhaps boring is what we really need right now.

[[mu...]]

Yup over drinking alcohol is what lead me down this path of shitty sleep.

 

I try not to over drink anymore but it is hard with holiday parties etc.

 

I have been logging 5-6 hours of sleep average with some 4 hours mixed in.  Not ideal by any means but I just go on with life and dont fret it too much. 

 

But really everytime I have over drank since my sleeping issue it has F'd up my sleep for some time.  So I really really try to limit my drinking.

[[Si...]]

Yup over drinking alcohol is what lead me down this path of shitty sleep.

 

I try not to over drink anymore but it is hard with holiday parties etc.

 

I have been logging 5-6 hours of sleep average with some 4 hours mixed in.  Not ideal by any means but I just go on with life and dont fret it too much. 

 

But really everytime I have over drank since my sleeping issue it has F'd up my sleep for some time.  So I really really try to limit my drinking.

 

Yeah, it always causes me some kind of problem. I had the same pattern way back in the day though. 5–6 hours and then some 4 hour ones mixed in.  It all slowly got better. You'll get there murph!

[[mu...]]

Thanks bud!

 

Yea I don't get too worked up about it anymore really.  Some days just a bit more cranky cuz of less sleep but otherwise I just live my life and sleep the best that I can.

 

I have learned from past mistakes though that getting shit faced drunk leads to extended periods of worse sleep and re bound issues.

[[Si...]]

Well another bad night after a good one. Barely slept again. Hoping this doesn't last very long. I'm just going to have to cut alcohol out all together. It's not worth feeling like this.

[[al...]]

At least wait until sleep has returned to normal for some time. The buzz you feel during the day following a good night sleep is better than the buzz that a few beers gives you after all that we have been through. I can't even remember when I last had a drink. It is not overly fun being sober all the time, but it is doable. Sleep well tonight.

[[Si...]]

At least wait until sleep has returned to normal for some time. The buzz you feel during the day following a good night sleep is better than the buzz that a few beers gives you after all that we have been through. I can't even remember when I last had a drink. It is not overly fun being sober all the time, but it is doable. Sleep well tonight.

 

I stopped drinking anything for over a year and then felt like I was ok enough to have a few. Which mostly worked out until I drank way too much. I think I'll have to maybe stop all together, since sometimes I get carried away. Stay warm in Chicago!

[[bl...]]

It'll be a year in January since I last had anything alcoholic. I really wish I could just have one or two beers with my girlfriend sometimes, or a glass of wine with dinner, but I know I don't dare. Things are just way too inconsistent. While sleep has improved over the past three nights (not that great last night but better than nothing), I know the drill, it could fall off a cliff at any time. As it is, I go through some pretty drastic ups and downs during the course of a week.

 

So, I'm just being boring and avoiding alcohol completely.

[[Si...]]

Yeah after the hell must of have been through, I should have known better. I just hope this setback doesn't last long and will be a lesson learned.

[[bl...]]

Just an update as to where I am sleep-wise ...

 

I'm cautiously optimistic that I've reached a new sleep baseline though I know how these things can go. I'm getting about 6-7 consistent hours every night, broken only by one bathroom break around 4AM or 5AM. Sometimes I even make it to 6AM or 6:30AM before I wake from sleep 1. It's been like this now for about two weeks. During that time I've only had one bad night, which was because my neighbors had some loud party until 3:30 in the morning.

 

Sleep 1 is almost always really deep and I rarely remember any dreams. Sleep 2 is a little lighter and dreamy, though again, I don't remember most of them. That's another big big deal for me, that the dreams have finally started to settle down. I had such awful REM rebound for so long I thought I'd be dealing with it for the rest of my life. I've been clean from marijuana now for 5 weeks and I think that has a lot to do with it though. In fact, I'm thinking weed was the last big obstacle to me finally having normal sleep patterns. I feel like that really set me back.

 

I've been really focusing on sleep hygiene. I stay out of bed, I sit on the couch now and read (I love reading in bed too), I avoid eating anything heavy after 8. Nothing stimulating (drink, eat, movies, tv) though last night I watched an action movie with the girlfriend and didn't get back to my place until after 11pm.

 

The surprising thing about this though was how quickly my brain started to shut down once I got home. I don't go to bed until I'm sleep, not tired, but sleepy, like falling asleep where I'm sitting sleepy. I was barely able to get to midnight before I had to go to bed. I think I fell asleep within 20 minutes, which is unheard of even before benzos.

 

I've been also following the principles of CBT-i, which didn't work for me when I was tapering and in recovery, but really seem to help now. Insomnia taught me how not to sleep. There was that brief period of time (relatively speaking) where I was physically unable to sleep due to the chemical imbalance in my brain, but almost 9 months out, that's all started to settle and heal.

 

I feel like it's vital to treat sleep now as just another fact of life. The end of the day comes and I go to bed and sleep. Even my relationship to how I perceive sleep is changing. Where before I'd feel like I couldn't rely on sleep to smooth the bumps and knocks from a bad day, now I go to bed almost with a sense of relief that it will all be better tomorrow, after I get a peaceful night of rest.

 

The most important thing right now is, it's getting better and it will continue to improve. I don't have any benzos in my system any more and I'm down to almost nothing with the Remeron (0.1mg (a mere crumb) and I'm going to jump after the holidays are over). Learning to sleep again has been a challenge. We become accustomed to lying down and trying to think our way into it and obsessively worrying when it doesn't, when in reality, it just has to happen.

 

I have had to trust my body to do its job, which hasn't been easy but I am getting more and more nights now where it is. I hope everyone else is doing well and I look forward to the day when we're all normal, healthy sleepers again.

[[Si...]]

That's great bland! I was in a great pattern for a year, but I was dumb and screwed it all up. Last night I was so sleepy on the sofa, but still never fully went into a deep sleep. I did sleep lightly most of the night. I felt like I was awake for most of it, but I must have had some sleep at some point. First time in almost two weeks that I've been able to get any sleep two days in a row. This sucks going through this again. I was calm all year this year up until now.

[[bl...]]

That's great bland! I was in a great pattern for a year, but I was dumb and screwed it all up. Last night I was so sleepy on the sofa, but still never fully went into a deep sleep. I did sleep lightly most of the night. I felt like I was awake for most of it, but I must have had some sleep at some point. First time in almost two weeks that I've been able to get any sleep two days in a row. This sucks going through this again. I was calm all year this year up until now.

 

I don't think you screwed it all up. You just set yourself back a bit, and it sounds like you're starting to recover a bit so you will be on the mend before you know it.

 

This is a process and we know our CNS is vulnerable for a while after, so just chalk it up to a lesson learned. You'll get there, we all will. I don't see any people on this forum who're 5 years removed from this and who're still having these issues, so we should all take heart that we all will eventually return to normal and lead happy healthy productive lives.

 

Hell, at only 9 months out, I'm actually surprised I'm doing this well and sure it sucks sometimes not to be as robust and resilient as other people who can just go out and drink, but then, I'm fine with being sober at this point. I figure, if I can't learn to be happy and have fun without alcohol and drugs, then what's the point?

[[al...]]

Last night ranked in the top 5 worse nights since all of this started. I am traveling and the time change along with sleeping in a different bed caused a steadily growing wave to crest and come crashing down. I was so frustrated that this withdrawal insomnia that I though went away, came back with a vengeance to threaten any enjoyment that I hoped to get out of this long awaited family vacation.

 

Usually I can at least stay in bed and rest but I became so agitated that I drove my wife up out of the basement to sleep by herself on our hosts' couch. Then all hell broke loose as I can only have what can be described as an "episode". I basically went nuts all alone in a strange pitch black basement. At one point I went outside to sit on the front porch barefoot and shirtless (I am in Chicago and it was 2:30 am). I was thinking that when people die of cold they first go to sleep. The going to sleep part seemed worth the risk at the time, but the cold concrete on my butt and bare feet drove me back inside before that could happen.

 

What finally allowed me some sleep at about 5 am was knowing that in the morning I could logon to my hosts' computer and come to this site to communicate with the only people out there who truly understand what sort of hell all of this can be.

[Guest [Th...]]

Aloha,

 

I had a terrible night too and didn't get any sleep until about 5:00 am this morning.  I have been doing this for 5 months now.  Very little sleep and only about 1 day per week where I get 5+ broken hours.  The thought of reinstating constantly crosses my mind, but I know it wouldn't work.  I guess I am doomed to not sleeping well forever.  I am sorry you are back in hell.  This gives me little hope of ever recovering.  If withdrawal insomnia can rear it ugly head 19 months out, I am doomed.

[[Si...]]

Oh no aloha!!! I know those desperate nights well. It's especially hard in an alien environment. My sleep is still jacked up. I'm getting sleepy at night, but still having trouble falling asleep. It took a long time last night and then I kept waking up. It's better than nothing though. Hoping it clears up for us all soon. I'm just frustrated that I was doing so well before I see myself back.

[[wa...]]

Well - there is a helpful saying in 12 Step organizations, "Identify don't compare" which could be helpful here.  It is inevitable that we compare during this process because it can be so awful - I would love a solid timeline about when it will end.  But the more I scour the forum for answers, the more I see the serendipity of w/d. 

 

To be fair to Aloha --- I recall when I first got on BB and he had just a few months that he was doing pretty well with the sleep.  I would chalk up this Chicago trip as a blip -- I never traveled well even on the Lunesta.  There is so much pressure to make holiday trips work - it brings out our Achilles heel - sleep.  In keeping with the title of this thread:  you'll get back to the good nights again, Aloha.  Sorry about Chicago. 

 

ANd I remember reading Siggy's zero nights and then breakthroughs.  WBB

[[me...]]

Usually I can at least stay in bed and rest but I became so agitated that I drove my wife up out of the basement to sleep by herself on our hosts' couch. Then all hell broke loose as I can only have what can be described as an "episode". I basically went nuts all alone in a strange pitch black basement. At one point I went outside to sit on the front porch barefoot and shirtless (I am in Chicago and it was 2:30 am). I was thinking that when people die of cold they first go to sleep. The going to sleep part seemed worth the risk at the time, but the cold concrete on my butt and bare feet drove me back inside before that could happen.

 

Ha, with us insomniacs, we would probably just die, and skip the lovely "going to sleep part" ! 

 

I'm so sorry Aloha, that this is happening, and especially on a vacation! In the "good old days", I'd just make sure I had a few pills for the trip. I'm sure you'll do okay today, we are toughened up a bit when it comes to lack of sleep. Crossing my fingers for you that tonight will go better, and glad you can get a bit of camaraderie from us other basket cases.

[[te...]]

I'm so sorry everyone is going through all this during the holidays! It's bad enough when we are trying to be in a routine but running around doesn't help much, either.

 

Aloha, I understand the going outside part in the cold. I had a series of nights where I was walking my dog at 3am to try and exhaust myself and the cold air was relaxing. it helped with the restlessness, at least. I hate that agitated feeling, I know exactly what you mean. I hope you had an okay day and that things turn around.

 

Uncertainty sure does not help this process.

 

Even when sleep improves we never know what can happen, and outsiders don't really get it. My husband is trying very hard to get me to be on a "schedule" so when we go back home, I'll be "synced" to the proper time zones, and I'm like, please just let me lay down and sleep when I want to. I am trusting things will work out. It's hard though!!!

 

Hugs to everyone.

[[al...]]

Thanks for responding to my rant everyone. I just needed to get it off my chest with people who understand. This wave actually started almost a couple of months ago and just reached a peak a couple of nights ago. Being in a different house on a different bed with a different time scheduled just seems to be too much. Being back to square one is a bit depressing, but I am somehow able to still do all our planned vacation activities and am having fun (during the day). Like the old days, I am now sort of dreading bedtime again. I am hoping that the inevitable widow that will follow will be a real good and long lasting one. I guess that is the way that this healing takes place.

[[al...]]

Aloha,

 

I had a terrible night too and didn't get any sleep until about 5:00 am this morning.  I have been doing this for 5 months now.  Very little sleep and only about 1 day per week where I get 5+ broken hours.  The thought of reinstating constantly crosses my mind, but I know it wouldn't work.  I guess I am doomed to not sleeping well forever.  I am sorry you are back in hell.  This gives me little hope of ever recovering.  If withdrawal insomnia can rear it ugly head 19 months out, I am doomed.

 

ThEwAy,

There is no reason to think that decent enough sleep will not come your way, but it is probably a good idea to be aware that it is probably going to be awhile before that happens. Not too long ago I posted my success story so obviously I was sleeping pretty good in spite of my recent setback. It is like looking at a 25 year stock market performance chart. The general trend is up but there are a lot of temporary downturns along the way. Some are just worse than others.

[[Si...]]

Very true aloha. It's hard to go from better to back in the weeds. Hoping it passes for both of us.

[[Be...]]

These pills are so cruel with what they do to us.  I could never go away on a vacation now and sleep in a strange bed.  I can hardly sleep as it is being here at my home.  Even when I was well I had trouble sleeping in a strange town and bed, even as a kid.