The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[La...]]

I went to the neurologist to do some tests and told him I was off balance, dizziness, blurry vision... he said usually it lasts 2 weeks but I'm still tapering... Thats so not true at all... he recommend  a pill for my dizziness, that people take for Meniere's disease with a bunch of side affects....

 

Hi bonty,

Is it called Betahistine? If so, I tried that one too -- near the beginning. I didn't really have a lot of side effects, as far as I can remember, but it didn't help either. The pharmacist told me that if the problem is, indeed, Meniere's Disease, then that medication should work. In my case, I took it for a few weeks, and there was no change. I consulted the doctor again and then stopped taking it.

 

The suggestion to take that medication may be part of the doctor's process of elimination, i.e. in order to find out what you have and don't have. Dizziness is a common symptom, and it's often quite difficult to figure out what's causing it.

[[Cl...]]

6 months out from my last dose of Klonopin and have the pleasure of joining this club!

 

TG

[[bo...]]

I went to the neurologist to do some tests and told him I was off balance, dizziness, blurry vision... he said usually it lasts 2 weeks but I'm still tapering... Thats so not true at all... he recommend  a pill for my dizziness, that people take for Meniere's disease with a bunch of side affects....

 

Hi bonty,

Is it called Betahistine? If so, I tried that one too -- near the beginning. I didn't really have a lot of side effects, as far as I can remember, but it didn't help either. The pharmacist told me that if the problem is, indeed, Meniere's Disease, then that medication should work. In my case, I took it for a few weeks, and there was no change. I consulted the doctor again and then stopped taking it.

 

The suggestion to take that medication may be part of the doctor's process of elimination, i.e. in order to find out what you have and don't have. Dizziness is a common symptom, and it's often quite difficult to figure out what's causing it.

Hi Lapis2, the pill he prescribed is cinnarizine 25 mg its an antihistamine

 

[[La...]]

6 months out from my last dose of Klonopin and have the pleasure of joining this club!

 

TG

 

Hi TG/CC,

Welcome! I see from your signature below that you're also taking -- or have recently stopped taking -- other medications that can also contribute to balance issues. So, it might not be just the Klonopin/clonazepam that's causing the problem. I, too, took a number of meds, including Prozac and before that, an SSRI called Cymbalta. The interaction of the medications can be problematic, and all of them list dizziness as a possible side effect.

 

In any case, I hope your dizziness is short-lived. Fingers crossed!

 

Take care!

[[La...]]

I went to the neurologist to do some tests and told him I was off balance, dizziness, blurry vision... he said usually it lasts 2 weeks but I'm still tapering... Thats so not true at all... he recommend  a pill for my dizziness, that people take for Meniere's disease with a bunch of side affects....

 

Hi bonty,

Is it called Betahistine? If so, I tried that one too -- near the beginning. I didn't really have a lot of side effects, as far as I can remember, but it didn't help either. The pharmacist told me that if the problem is, indeed, Meniere's Disease, then that medication should work. In my case, I took it for a few weeks, and there was no change. I consulted the doctor again and then stopped taking it.

 

The suggestion to take that medication may be part of the doctor's process of elimination, i.e. in order to find out what you have and don't have. Dizziness is a common symptom, and it's often quite difficult to figure out what's causing it.

Hi Lapis2, the pill he prescribed is cinnarizine 25 mg its an antihistamine

 

Ah, I see, bonty. Did you try it?

[[La...]]

Hi Dizzy Buddies,

I've got another abstract from PubMed to share. This one from Hungary looks at what happens after somebody with dizziness leaves the emergency department. Unsurprisingly, when people in this study were contacted for follow-up, many of them had not received a diagnosis. The difficulty in diagnosing and/or treating dizziness seems to be a common theme in the studies that I've come across.

 

Here's the abstract:

 

"What happens to vertiginous population after emission from the Emergency Department?"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32750240/

 

Abstract

 

Background - Dizziness is one of the most frequent complaints when a patient is searching for medical care and resolution. This can be a problematic presentation in the emergency department, both from a diagnostic and a management standpoint.

 

Purpose - The aim of our study is to clarify what happens to patients after leaving the emergency department.

 

Methods - 879 patients were examined at the Semmel-weis University Emergency Department with vertigo and dizziness. We sent a questionnaire to these patients and we had 308 completed papers back (110 male, 198 female patients, mean age 61.8 ± 12.31 SD), which we further analyzed.

 

Results - Based on the emergency department diagnosis we had the following results: central vestibular lesion (n = 71), dizziness or giddiness (n = 64) and BPPV (n = 51) were among the most frequent diagnosis. Clarification of the final post-examination diagnosis took several days (28.8%), and weeks (24.2%). It was also noticed that 24.02% of this population never received a proper diagnosis. Among the population only 80 patients (25.8%) got proper diagnosis of their complaints, which was supported by qualitative statistical analysis (Cohen Kappa test) result (κ = 0.560).

 

Discussion - The correlation between our emergency department diagnosis and final diagnosis given to patients is low, a phenomenon that is also observable in other countries. Therefore, patient follow-up is an important issue, including the importance of neurotology and possibly neurological examination.

 

Conclusion - Emergency diagnosis of vertigo is a great challenge, but despite of difficulties the targeted and quick case history and exact examination can evaluate the central or peripheral cause of the balance disorder. Therefore, to prevent declination of the quality of life the importance of further investigation is high.

[[La...]]

And then there's this one, although the content is limited in the abstract form. I really wish I could get the full paper, since benzodiazepines and other psychiatric medications are known to have dizziness as a possible side effect.

 

"Drugs inducing hearing loss, tinnitus, dizziness and vertigo: an updated guide"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32767320/

 

Abstract

 

Objective: The awareness of audio-vestibular side effects of drugs, such as hearing loss, tinnitus, dizziness and vertigo, has widely increased in the recent years. The present guide represents an update of the previous documents published by the authors in 2005 and 2011 on drug-induced ototoxicity and vestibulotoxicity.

 

Materials and methods: The authors performed a comprehensive analysis of audio-vestibular side effects of commercially available drugs based on the British National Formulary, a pharmaceutical reference book that contains a wide range of useful information and advice on prescription and pharmacology.

 

Results: Commercially available drugs and their active principles have been classified based on their audio-vestibular side effects, as reported by the pharmaceutical companies and/or health agencies. Drugs have been categorized based on the field of application, the therapeutic indication and the pharmacological properties.

 

Conclusions: General practitioners, otolaryngology, neurology and audiology specialists should be aware of possible audio-vestibular side effects of drugs, such as hearing loss, tinnitus, dizziness and vertigo. The present guide represents a practical tool to rapidly identify potential audio-vestibular side effects of drugs as reported by the pharmaceutical companies and/or health agencies.

 

 

[[bo...]]

I went to the neurologist to do some tests and told him I was off balance, dizziness, blurry vision... he said usually it lasts 2 weeks but I'm still tapering... Thats so not true at all... he recommend  a pill for my dizziness, that people take for Meniere's disease with a bunch of side affects....

 

Hi bonty,

Is it called Betahistine? If so, I tried that one too -- near the beginning. I didn't really have a lot of side effects, as far as I can remember, but it didn't help either. The pharmacist told me that if the problem is, indeed, Meniere's Disease, then that medication should work. In my case, I took it for a few weeks, and there was no change. I consulted the doctor again and then stopped taking it.

 

The suggestion to take that medication may be part of the doctor's process of elimination, i.e. in order to find out what you have and don't have. Dizziness is a common symptom, and it's often quite difficult to figure out what's causing it.

Hi Lapis2, the pill he prescribed is cinnarizine 25 mg its an antihistamine

 

Ah, I see, bonty. Did you try it?

HI Lapis2,I have and the only good effect is it does make me sleepy, of couse bc its a WD symptom... this vertigo and wacky eyes, is not letting up :'(  very distressful

[[La...]]

Yes, for sure, the symptoms are really distressing. I had a lot of visual issues at the beginning too. Everything seemed too bright and a bit surreal. That took awhile to resolve, but it did.

[[La...]]

Hi Dizzy Buddies,

I hope everyone is doing okay...or, at least, okay-ish! I haven't posted in awhile, but I came across this study on dogs with vestibular problems, and I thought it might be interesting for others to check out. Yup, even dogs (and I've seen studies on cats too) can be dizzy! There's no reference to the use of benzos here, but they do treat the dogs with a few other types of medications.

 

"Vestibular disease in dogs under UK primary veterinary care: Epidemiology and clinical management"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32776616/

 

Abstract

 

Background: Vestibular disease (VD), central or peripheral, can be a dramatic primary-care presentation. Current literature describes mostly dogs examined in referral centers.

 

Hypothesis/objectives: Describe the prevalence, presentation, clinical management, and outcomes of VD in dogs under primary veterinary care at UK practices participating in VetCompass.

 

Animals: Seven hundred and fifty-nine vestibular cases identified out of 905 544 study dogs.

 

Methods: Retrospective cohort study. Potential VD cases clinically examined during 2016 were verified by reviewing clinical records for signalment, presenting clinical signs, treatments, and outcomes. Multivariable logistic regression was used to evaluate factors associated with VD.

 

Results: The overall prevalence of VD was 8 per 10 000 dogs (95% CI = 7-9). Median age at first diagnosis was 12.68 years (interquartile range [iQR], 11.28-14.64). Compared with crossbreeds, breeds with the highest odds of VD diagnosis included French Bulldogs (odds ratio [OR] = 9.25, 95% CI = 4.81-17.76, P < .001), Bulldogs (OR = 6.53, 95% CI = 2.66-16.15, P < .001), King Charles Spaniels (OR = 4.96, 95% CI = 2.52-9.78, P < .001), Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (OR = 3.56, 95% CI = 2.50-5.06, P < .001), and Springer Spaniels (OR = 3.37, 95% CI = 2.52-4.52, P < .001). The most common presenting signs were head tilt (69.8%), nystagmus (68.1%), and ataxia (64.5%). The most frequently used treatments were antiemetics (43.2%), systemic glucocorticoids (33.1%), antimicrobials (25%), and propentofylline (23.25%). There were 3.6% of cases referred. Improvement was recorded in 41.8% cases after a median of 4 days (IQR, 2-10.25).

 

Conclusions: Our study identifies strong breed predispositions for VD. The low referral rates suggest that primary-care data sources offer more generalizable information for benchmarking to help clinicians review their own clinical activities.

[[La...]]

Here's a study that gives an explanation of the three aspects of brain function that need to be in sync in order for balance to be normal -- vision, vestibular and proprioception. Benzos and other psychiatric meds can affect the vestibular system. But if you're dizzy and you're not sure why, it's good to keep in mind that it's a complicated interplay of factors. Get things checked out!

 

"Aerospace, Physiology Of Spatial Orientation"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30085518/

 

 

Excerpt

 

Aviation-associated spatial disorientation, as described by Benson, occurs when “the pilot fails to sense correctly the position, motion, or attitude of his aircraft or of himself within the fixed coordinate system provided by the surface of the Earth and the gravitational vertical.” In other words, spatial orientation is the natural ability to maintain body orientation and/or posture in relation to one's environment while at rest and during motion. Humans are naturally designed to maintain orientation while on the ground in a two-dimensional environment. Aviation incorporates a three-dimensional environment and can lead to sensory conflicts, making orientation difficult or even impossible to maintain. Spatial disorientation is a phenomenon that is well known to aviators, but it remains unclearly defined and continues to be one of largest causes of aviation mishaps. Spatial disorientation is achieved through three major sensory sources: visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive. To achieve appropriate orientation the body relies on accurate perception and cognitive integration of all three systems. If visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive stimuli vary in magnitude, direction and frequency the resulting effect can be spatial disorientation. The human eye provides visual and spatial orientation, which is responsible for providing about 80% of the sensory inputs needed to maintain orientation. The vestibular system within the inner ear contributes 15%. Proprioceptive sensory inputs from receptors located in the skin, muscle, tendons, and joints account for 5% of the sensory information used to establish orientation. Complex coordination between these sensory inputs is then translated and interpreted by the brain. Misinterpretation or inaccuracy of these three sources of information can lead to “sensory mismatch,” resulting in a variety of visual or vestibular illusions.

[[La...]]

Hello to all. I'm glad I found this group. I'm new to benzo buddies. If you look at my signature you will see that I finished an Ambien ( zolpidem) taper 3 months ago. 12 weeks 2 days free. When I got down to 4mg, I woke 3 days after my reduction feeling very weird in my head. Shortly afterwards, I heard a loud click in my head. My head started spinning severely then I collapsed with a blank mind. That lasted a few seconds but I was left with severe boatiness, dizziness and pushing/pulling feeling that varies in intensity. After my taper, I was functioning but was moderate boatiness during the first month. Month 2 it got worse to the point that I'm bedridden but could walk around for a few minutes to get what I need, fix food, etc. TWO days before month 3 milestone, a HUGE wave hit me and now I can't even stand up but a few seconds. I can't sit up either without feeling faint or like I'm going to have a stroke.

Can anyone give me any suggestions? Did this happen to anyone else ( the sudden collapse, lost time a few seconds)? Is it normal that it's getting worse?

Ambien was the ONLY medicine I've ever had.

[[Be...]]

LadyDen, sorry that you're feeling worse.  I lie on the sofa all night long and rarely sit up at all myself except to eat dinner at the dining room table.  Lie in bed for about 12 each night trying to sleep. 

[[La...]]

LadyDen, sorry that you're feeling worse.  I lie on the sofa all night long and rarely sit up at all myself except to eat dinner at the dining room table.  Lie in bed for about 12 each night trying to sleep.

 

Yes it's tough. Becky have you tried CBT-I....meditation for insomnia? It works great for me. Even if I don't sleep, I get very close that I feel rested & calm

[[La...]]

Hello to all. I'm glad I found this group. I'm new to benzo buddies. If you look at my signature you will see that I finished an Ambien ( zolpidem) taper 3 months ago. 12 weeks 2 days free. When I got down to 4mg, I woke 3 days after my reduction feeling very weird in my head. Shortly afterwards, I heard a loud click in my head. My head started spinning severely then I collapsed with a blank mind. That lasted a few seconds but I was left with severe boatiness, dizziness and pushing/pulling feeling that varies in intensity. After my taper, I was functioning but was moderate boatiness during the first month. Month 2 it got worse to the point that I'm bedridden but could walk around for a few minutes to get what I need, fix food, etc. TWO days before month 3 milestone, a HUGE wave hit me and now I can't even stand up but a few seconds. I can't sit up either without feeling faint or like I'm going to have a stroke.

Can anyone give me any suggestions? Did this happen to anyone else ( the sudden collapse, lost time a few seconds)? Is it normal that it's getting worse?

Ambien was the ONLY medicine I've ever had.

 

Hi LadyDen,

It sounds like you're dealing with some pretty intense symptoms at this point. I just wondered if you've seen your doctor or had anything checked out. If not, it might be a good idea to start there and see what s/he says. There can be so many causes of dizziness, so it's best not to assume anything.

 

Having said that, dizziness and disequilibrium are pretty common symptoms that people get while taking these meds, as well as during tapers and after withdrawing completely. Everyone is different, though, so when you ask if something is "normal", it's hard to give a definitive answer.  Some people have mild cases, while for others, it's much worse. For some, it lasts only a short time, but for others, it goes on longer. It's such an individual thing.

 

It's good to try to stay mobile, though, since lying down a lot will likely not help, and it could make you much weaker. If you need a cane or walker for support in order to stay mobile, then that could be helpful. Falling is NOT a good thing!

 

Take good care!

 

[[La...]]

Thx, Lap. Yes I've been under a regular doctor & a neurologist care. They both know & agree that this is from withdrawal. I have appointment next month in person IF I can ride in the car. If not then telemedicine visit using FaceTime.

I guess time will heal it

[[La...]]

I'd like to add that I find it strange that while on the Ambien, I was NEVER dizzy, unbalanced, boaty, push/ pulling, floating feeling. Even in tolerance or interdose withdrawal. It was after I began my taper. I was on Ambien a total of 7 years( including my taper of 10 months). Maybe it was masking it. So now that I'm off, what's damaged showed up?

[[La...]]

I'd like to add that I find it strange that while on the Ambien, I was NEVER dizzy, unbalanced, boaty, push/ pulling, floating feeling. Even in tolerance or interdose withdrawal. It was after I began my taper. I was on Ambien a total of 7 years( including my taper of 10 months). Maybe it was masking it. So now that I'm off, what's damaged showed up?

 

Ah, yes, that's a great question, LadyDen! I think there are many questions that need to be answered when it comes to these symptoms. I took benzos for four years before the dizziness really showed up in earnest. To me, it seems as if there's a "straw that broke the camel's back" for each of us. I assume mine was just overloaded with the medications after a period of time. In your case, perhaps your brain is just trying to sort things out, now that you're off the meds. All of the symptoms in the Ashton Manual seem to be "fair game" in terms of what we can expect to experience. I had a number of symptoms at the beginning that eventually went away. Hopefully, it's a short-lived symptom for you. Fingers crossed, right?!

[[La...]]

Thx, Lap. Yes I've been under a regular doctor & a neurologist care. They both know & agree that this is from withdrawal. I have appointment next month in person IF I can ride in the car. If not then telemedicine visit using FaceTime.

I guess time will heal it

 

Good to hear that you have some medical support! Not everyone has that. 

[[La...]]

I hope ( fingers crossed) that it calms down soon. I truly believe that if I can get up to start walking outside, my healing would progress. I'm sitting here thinking about all the other buddies & future buddies that are poly drugged. If ONE sleeping pill did this to me...and it's no picnic...how much more terrible shape are the poly drugged people are in. This breaks my heart! And makes me so angry! We lose years of our lives that we'll never get back.

One good thing for us is, in this pandemic, we aren't missing much. Most of us have already been at home sick. I hope you're doing well, Lap & everyone

[[La...]]

I agree, LadyDen.I'm one of those polydrugged people. Having taken different types of benzos, plus an SSRI, I assume there must be an element of "chemical soup" that resulted in my brain. The interactions couldn't have been a good thing. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have made completely different decisions for myself. I just had no idea how dangerous these medications were.

 

Do you have a cane to use? Maybe that would help you stay a bit more mobile. I agree that exercise is a good thing for brain and body, and of course, it's important not to get weak. You can do laps of your home/apartment! It's the COVID-safe way to stay active!

[[La...]]

Hey Dizzy Buddies,

Here's another abstract that mentions how difficult it is to diagnose vestibular issues. I've come across so many studies that mention this particular issue, which, of course, is the reason why so many people who are dizzy never get a diagnosis or treatment. I wasn't able to access the full study for this one, so it's just the abstract.

 

"A Practical Approach to Vertigo: A Synthesis of the Emerging Evidence"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32786023/

 

Abstract

 

Vestibular presentations represent a large financial and symptomatic burden of disease1,2 , while remaining one of the most elusive presentations to accurately and confidently diagnose. A primary cause for this is that the same symptom can be the end-product of numerous aetiologies, and uncertainties can lead to unnecessary investigations and associated increased cost and delays in diagnosis. An effective method to narrow the diagnosis is firstly to determine, from a limited list, which type of vestibular syndrome the patient possesses, and then apply a focussed history and examination to define the most likely aetiology within that syndrome. This review provides a diagnostic approach to the vertiginous patient, outlining the underlying pathophysiology that accounts for the clinical symptoms and signs. With this approach, physicians should be able to diagnose the majority of common vestibular presentations and know when to refer the urgent, complex, or rare cases to sub-specialist neuro-otologists for prompt and appropriate management.

[[La...]]

And here's a paper that follows up well on the last one. It looks at the type of testing that is usually done.

 

"Effective diagnostics for vertigo, dizziness and equilibrium disorders"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32789707/

 

Abstract

 

Vertigo, dizziness and equilibrium disorders are symptoms with a variety of causes. First, four cardinal questions (type and duration of the vertigo, triggering factors, accompanying symptoms) must be answered. After that, the search for a spontaneous nystagmus (differentiation of peripheral and central disorder using the HINTS[head impulse, nystagmus, test of skew]-test ) and, as part of a positioning examination, the search for a benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (BPPV) are necessary. If the result is negative an instrument-based receptor-specific examination is carried out. The caloric examination (low-frequency stimulus) tests the horizontal semicircular canal and the superior vestibular nerve, whereas the 3‑D video head impulse test (vHIT, high-frequency stimulus) is used to analyze all three semicircular canals as well as the superior and inferior vestibular nerves. Analysis of the cervical vestibular evoked myogenic potential (cVEMP) checks the function of the sacculus and that of the ocular VEMP (oVEMP) checks the function of the utriculus. The final overall analysis usually gives a definitive diagnosis or at least provides a suspected diagnosis, which then determines the further diagnostic procedure (e.g. targeted radiological diagnostics if vestibular paroxysmia, superior canal dehiscence or a vestibular schwannoma are suspected).

 

 

[[La...]]

Thx Lap! Yes I tried a walker but nearly fell a few times because as I was using it, it titled too much when I caught myself. I am a little better today so I got about 5 minutes of sun with cloud cover earlier. As soon as I laid back down....I was put in spin town!  I'm going to try a get up plan. I make a small list of things to do that requires me to get up. And exercise in bed helps me.

 

Thx for those articles. I'll read them after my meditation. Big buddie hugs to you

[[La...]]

Thx Lap! Yes I tried a walker but nearly fell a few times because as I was using it, it titled too much when I caught myself. I am a little better today so I got about 5 minutes of sun with cloud cover earlier. As soon as I laid back down....I was put in spin town!  I'm going to try a get up plan. I make a small list of things to do that requires me to get up. And exercise in bed helps me.

 

Thx for those articles. I'll read them after my meditation. Big buddie hugs to you

 

Hey, good for you LD! Sun! Nice! I agree that a plan is a good thing. If you set up a plan that will keep you a bit mobile but also allow for rest, then maybe you can get some things done and stay mobile without overdoing it. Exercises in sitting and in bed can be really useful, e.g. leg extensions, leg lifts (side and front), arm exercises, etc.

 

Did you try a two-wheeled or four-wheeled walker? The two-wheeled walker is quite stable. It has sliders on the back two legs, so you just slide it along. The four-wheeled models could be less useful for wobbly people like us. ;-)