Long-Term Users group - w/d and recovery after longterm use

[[lo...]]

Thanks so much , Rich.

 

I wish you all the best too and hope you can get off these drugs and feel well again.

 

Hugs

 

Fiona 

[[MT...]]

Pretty, I'm glad you had that 5 day window and I hope you have another one open up any second now.

 

LF, your determination, spirit and compassion blow me away. Thank you for sharing your story and your courage.

 

Atro, I'm glad you're listening to yourself and following Ashton. It's a long road for long-termers but worth it.

 

Yesterday wasn't too bad. Mornings sure are rough. Last night was one of those super restless, zero sleep nights so I didn't even get rest. This morning was overwhelmed by a terrible headache and cried a lot reading about the attacks in France. So after feeling super sorry for myself and how miserable I was I decided to show kindness to my husband by raking our GIANT leaves since he's in over his head with work. Despite my exhaustion I made it 90 minutes and my headache went away. It was excellent distraction and it felt good to do something for someone else. Too often I'm hurt or annoyed because I feel like I'm not getting the help I want/need and I'm tired of looking at the world that way. Maybe I can't make myself feel better most of the time but helping someone else feels good.

[[At...]]

Pretty, I'm glad you had that 5 day window and I hope you have another one open up any second now.

 

LF, your determination, spirit and compassion blow me away. Thank you for sharing your story and your courage.

 

Atro, I'm glad you're listening to yourself and following Ashton. It's a long road for long-termers but worth it.

 

Yesterday wasn't too bad. Mornings sure are rough. Last night was one of those super restless, zero sleep nights so I didn't even get rest. This morning was overwhelmed by a terrible headache and cried a lot reading about the attacks in France. So after feeling super sorry for myself and how miserable I was I decided to show kindness to my husband by raking our GIANT leaves since he's in over his head with work. Despite my exhaustion I made it 90 minutes and my headache went away. It was excellent distraction and it felt good to do something for someone else. Too often I'm hurt or annoyed because I feel like I'm not getting the help I want/need and I'm tired of looking at the world that way. Maybe I can't make myself feel better most of the time but helping someone else feels good.

 

MT, yes, it does seem like it will be a looooooong road! 

Are you Benzo free now?

If all goes well and I follow Ashton at two week dose changes it will take about a year and two months or so. 

I'm in the middle of Phase 5 and in about a month or so I thing I will be off K and on straight V for the rest of the journey.

The tough part id getting the shrinks to understand how Ashton works so they they prescribe the meds correctly!

 

[[MT...]]

Atro, yes, I've been benzo free for 11 months and still have a long way to go, particularly with sleep. On nights I sleep more than a few minutes at a time all of my symptoms decrease in intensity and I can believe in my healing. But all of the zero and minutes at a time nights lead to exceptionally challenging days. I'll really feel like I'm getting somewhere when I can even get two hours most nights.

 

You have my compassion for where you are in this journey. You just want to be done and that looks impossibly far away right now. Ultimately you'll be glad you took it slow. Speed off of benzos really seems to make a difference with severity of symptoms and length of recovery. Is your doc willing to prescribe according to the whole Ashton method? If not, how are you managing it?

[[At...]]

Atro, yes, I've been benzo free for 11 months and still have a long way to go, particularly with sleep. On nights I sleep more than a few minutes at a time all of my symptoms decrease in intensity and I can believe in my healing. But all of the zero and minutes at a time nights lead to exceptionally challenging days. I'll really feel like I'm getting somewhere when I can even get two hours most nights.

 

You have my compassion for where you are in this journey. You just want to be done and that looks impossibly far away right now. Ultimately you'll be glad you took it slow. Speed off of benzos really seems to make a difference with severity of symptoms and length of recovery. Is your doc willing to prescribe according to the whole Ashton method? If not, how are you managing it?

 

MT,

Yes, My Dr is aware of how I am approaching this taper ,  I gave him the schedule and he agreed that I am the driver, not him.

It's just that he prescribed to little V and too much K. I have to call and straighten it out for he's never heard of Ashton so I assume he doesn't understand the plan.

I'm very happy for you. Being benzo free for almost a year is a wonderful story! Sorry about your insomnia, but remember, all withdrawal symptoms are temporary.

Were you originally taking for sleep disorders or is it new to you after stopping? I never had problems sleeping before or during benzo use.

Did you also do a very slow taper? How were your w.s. during taper?

I do know that everyone is different and symptoms will vary, but you've been through the whole deal. I'd love to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!

Rich

[[MT...]]

Hi Atros, I know how frustrating it is to work with doctors who don't understand wd. I'm glad your doc is prescribing for you but wouldn't it be nice if he/she really took in Ashton?

 

I'd be totally insane if I didn't believe these symptoms were temporary. They've gone on for such a long time though. I was prescribed klonopin because this idiot, famous Chronic Fatigue Syndrome doctor told the CFS community that you needed it in order to protect your brain from the CFS...and to help with the sleep disorder that accompanies CFS. Like most everyone else, I kept needing higher doses over the years then added restoril as an as needed medication.

 

Twice I did very rapid tapers (this was before I found BB) of about 4 weeks so I had tons of symptoms: shaking, sweating, muscle spasms and jerks, headaches, wicked insomnia and fatigue, joint and muscle pain, tachycardia, loss of appetite, nausea, diarrhea, abdominal pain, itching, burning skin, tingling/wet feeling on my face and scalp, PANIC, anxiety, depression, lots of suicidal thoughts, major cog fog, weakness, dp, dr, intrusive thoughts, nightmares, fever, and tinnitus. The psych symptoms have eased up but most of the others are still present in varying levels of intensity. There are still too many days when I wonder how I'll get through the day--especially on my two workdays per week.

 

What are your symptoms like?

[[ca...]]

I need to follow this thread you can see my signiture and Lord is the last of this k taper making crazy and yes MT my Doc would never give me the full c/o to valiium which would have been 80 mgs to equal my 4mg k i was on She had me cut the k and add about half the v needed acording to what Ashton to add! Healing to all ~CD ps: am now on .19 mgs k and 45 mgs v !

[[MT...]]

How are you feeling, can do? How do you feel your taper is going?

[[ca...]]

How are you feeling, can do? How do you feel your taper is going?

MT, been feeling crapy since i started last sept. Bad sleep stomach issues etc. same s/x you have but do get some partial windows so staying pretty much functional just some days hard to get thru as you mention and like i said this last little bit of my k taper is getting rough not sure whats going on so feeling worse not better !Thank You for asking ~CD

[[At...]]

Hi Atros, I know how frustrating it is to work with doctors who don't understand wd. I'm glad your doc is prescribing for you but wouldn't it be nice if he/she really took in Ashton?

 

I'd be totally insane if I didn't believe these symptoms were temporary. They've gone on for such a long time though. I was prescribed klonopin because this idiot, famous Chronic Fatigue Syndrome doctor told the CFS community that you needed it in order to protect your brain from the CFS...and to help with the sleep disorder that accompanies CFS. Like most everyone else, I kept needing higher doses over the years then added restoril as an as needed medication.

 

Twice I did very rapid tapers (this was before I found BB) of about 4 weeks so I had tons of symptoms: shaking, sweating, muscle spasms and jerks, headaches, wicked insomnia and fatigue, joint and muscle pain, tachycardia, loss of appetite, nausea, diarrhea, abdominal pain, itching, burning skin, tingling/wet feeling on my face and scalp, PANIC, anxiety, depression, lots of suicidal thoughts, major cog fog, weakness, dp, dr, intrusive thoughts, nightmares, fever, and tinnitus. The psych symptoms have eased up but most of the others are still present in varying levels of intensity. There are still too many days when I wonder how I'll get through the day--especially on my two workdays per week.

 

What are your symptoms like?

 

MT,

 

Thanks for this info, although I'm almost sorry that I asked after reading it!  Wow, you aren't going through the best of times, but they will only get better with time.

I wish you all the best!  Actually, I wish everyone the best here.

I'm down to .75 mg K and 30 mg V daily and I've been doing okay.  Just a bit of "brain fog" (same as cog fog?) and aches and pains that may or may not be part of the w.d. process.

I do have a long way to go though. 

I talked to my shrink today and straightened out the script situataion.  When I meet with him again I we will go over the entire schedule.  I'm in the driver's seat!

To be a bit more comfy I live on Chamomile, Passion Flower and when I can hak the taste Kava Tea!

I am looking into Natrol Day/Night and Inositol. 

-Rich

 

[[Va...]]

I hope some of you long term users are still checking the forum... I've been on benzos for about 35 years and am currently on 2 mg Valium x 3 on a good day... A little more if panicked.

Tried to cut down by .5 for several weeks and threw myself into a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. Now I'm trying to decide if it's worth trying again at my age - 70.  Yikes it's hard to admit to being so old. But keep wondering what it might be like to be drug free before I'm dumped into a retirement home. My life has been successful and fun on this medication and I've raised a couple of great kids and enjoy my grandchildren. Still working out at the gym, singing in a great choir, lots of friends and with my "original" husband - 42 years married! Wonder if my life would have been so happy without the drugs - I was anxious even as a small child and had a major depression in my 20's and there"s a possibility that the benzos kept my life on an even keel.

Hope to hear from some other seniors.

[[At...]]

I hope some of you long term users are still checking the forum... I've been on benzos for about 35 years and am currently on 2 mg Valium x 3 on a good day... A little more if panicked.

Tried to cut down by .5 for several weeks and threw myself into a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. Now I'm trying to decide if it's worth trying again at my age - 70.  Yikes it's hard to admit to being so old. But keep wondering what it might be like to be drug free before I'm dumped into a retirement home. My life has been successful and fun on this medication and I've raised a couple of great kids and enjoy my grandchildren. Still working out at the gym, singing in a great choir, lots of friends and with my "original" husband - 42 years married! Wonder if my life would have been so happy without the drugs - I was anxious even as a small child and had a major depression in my 20's and there"s a possibility that the benzos kept my life on an even keel.

Hope to hear from some other seniors.

 

I'm no senior, but middle age, maybe?? I've been on benzos (klonopin) for 27yrs which is more than half my life.

In my opinion I think you are trying to cut too much at a time.

At age 70, it is probably wise to seek out a Dr to help you find the best method of taper. 

It's all about comfort and safety, not speed.

Good luck!

[[no...]]

I hope some of you long term users are still checking the forum... I've been on benzos for about 35 years and am currently on 2 mg Valium x 3 on a good day... A little more if panicked.

Tried to cut down by .5 for several weeks and threw myself into a nightmare of withdrawal symptoms. Now I'm trying to decide if it's worth trying again at my age - 70.  Yikes it's hard to admit to being so old. But keep wondering what it might be like to be drug free before I'm dumped into a retirement home. My life has been successful and fun on this medication and I've raised a couple of great kids and enjoy my grandchildren. Still working out at the gym, singing in a great choir, lots of friends and with my "original" husband - 42 years married! Wonder if my life would have been so happy without the drugs - I was anxious even as a small child and had a major depression in my 20's and there"s a possibility that the benzos kept my life on an even keel.

Hope to hear from some other seniors.

 

 

Hi Val  we also have an over 50 support group and there's other members in their 70's plus on there and of course on BB its self Here's the over 50's link http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=53495.0 I'm also long term I'm 56 but haven't posted on here in a while as I'm rough, I hope the links helpful and other long term members will probably respond on here as well.

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[MT...]]

Val, there are a bunch of us long term users in our 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond. I'm 53 and was on benzos daily for about 18 and intermittently for an additional 11. While wd has been a bear I'm actually functioning at a higher level off them and have far less depression. It was depression and anxiety that started me on this adventure 27 years ago. It wasn't until 2012 that I got an inkling that the drugs were the problem not me. Now I'm able to manage and mostly avoid depression with exercise and my anxiety through exposure and coping techniques. Valium is depressing all by itself.

 

I agree with Atro that you need to slow down the taper by doing it Ashton style, or something similar. The fast tapers seem to prolong the misery. We'll be here for you.

[[ca...]]

Val, not a senior but no kid either been on this benzo crap almost 30 years and i fuly understand i am trying my best to get off them will i honestly i just hope i can, so your not alone in your feelings ~CD

[[be...]]

Similar to can do but not as long. But long enough. There is no rhyme or reason why someone's taper is horrible, while others, even long time users, can have an easy go of it. You may well be one of them. Never say never.

Bets

[[MT...]]

Not sure why this isn't a more active thread. Often I feel like my needs are quite different from short term users, although some of them get hit pretty bad. It just seems that with long term use the recovery generally takes longer and it's harder to remember what normal or a baseline might be.

 

How are you all doing?

 

I did a bit better in December but so far January has all been bad days. Super frustrating and discouraging. Wondering when this is going to turn around.

[[At...]]

Not sure why this isn't a more active thread. Often I feel like my needs are quite different from short term users, although some of them get hit pretty bad. It just seems that with long term use the recovery generally takes longer and it's harder to remember what normal or a baseline might be.

 

How are you all doing?

 

I did a bit better in December but so far January has all been bad days. Super frustrating and discouraging. Wondering when this is going to turn around.

 

Sorry to read that Jan, so far, hasn't been that great for you.

Remember that wd symptoms = healing! That is something to look forward to.

I sometimes think that symptoms for a ling time user can go either way. After all most of us have been in tolerance withdrawal for many years and have felt many of the symptoms while on our full doses.

Make sense? I may be totally off base though.

-Rich

[[MT...]]

Good points Rich. I'm trying to reframe all of this as all indicating recovery is coming and that I'm healing. The length of all this process is mind boggling but I know others have done it. So will we.

[[At...]]

Yes! A positive attitude, no matter how you feel, is a must.

Easier said than done, I know!

Like you, I've forgotten what "normal" feels like and for a long while I accepted brain fog as my new normal. That is, until I read that the brain fog was actually a classic symptom off tolerance.

We will all get there at our own pace with the help of one another.

I'm looking forward to it!

[[MT...]]

I actually had a good day today after getting some real sleep last night. It feels like such a privilege, a gift, to have a day where I don't feel horrible. There are still symptoms but they've been manageable. Even the cog fog was lighter. Thanks for your support and encouragement, Atro. How do you feel your taper is going?

[[At...]]

MT,

Fantastic! I'm glad that you had a great day!

Soon enough (stay positive!) they will all be even better days.

I really can't complain about how my taper is going.  It's almost as though I know what to expect seeing as how I've been trudging through tolerance withdrawal for over a decade!

Today, well now yesterday, I felt crummy, but I usually do a few days after a cut. I guess it takes a couple days to feel that cut.

Stay the course!

-Rich

 

[[MT...]]

Rich, that's a long time of tolerance wd. So glad you figured out you needed to taper so you can emerge from the misery. It's helpful to remember there are good days ahead. Today is back to the baseline yuk of wd but just knowing yesterday was good lifts my spirits. I hope your crumminess eases soon.

[[At...]]

Rich, that's a long time of tolerance wd. So glad you figured out you needed to taper so you can emerge from the misery. It's helpful to remember there are good days ahead. Today is back to the baseline yuk of wd but just knowing yesterday was good lifts my spirits. I hope your crumminess eases soon.

Mt,

Yes, it was a long time of feeling like crap during tolerance, but I didn't know what it was!  I was so uneducated about the whole deal.  I thought that feeling like that was my new normal! 

I have to give my new (well, 6 mos ago) Primary care Dr. kudos for questioning the Klonopin use, both the dose and duration.  You should have saw his face when I told him that I've been taking it since '88!

It was he who advised me to research it and think about getting off of it. 

This research brought me here and to the Ashton Manual where I learned that my "new normal" was just an old addiction beating me up!  I was pissed to say the least!  The Dr. that put me on it never, not once, mentioned anything about addiction or tolerance withdrawals.  As a matter of fact I remember him telling me that it is no big deal to take it for life if I need it! 

Anyhow, today I'm working on no sleep.  1st time since my partying days, but this was not intentional. 

I'm wondering if getting off of this last little bit of K is gonna be a bit of a struggle and something to celebrate when I finish my cross over to V and start reducing that dose(V)?

I'm not going to let it beat me though!

Hey, at least your "baseline yuck" isn't any worse and should only get better in time.

-Rich

[[Fi...]]

I've  been on Xanax for 15 years. I'm almost 3 months off, it's very hard... before I found BenzoBuddies I didn't know much about benzos, I've learnt so much so far. Had no idea that during last few years, while taking Xanax I was in withdrawal, feeling terrible. I'm just scared that because I was taking benzodiazepines for that long, my recovery will last forever.