Menopause/Hormonal Support

[[Li...]]

Yes, Hashimotos can cause fatigue badly.  I've been in thyroid/hormones groups for 3 years now.  the one thing I've learned the most is that most doctors don't know how to check the thyroid properly.  You can't go by just TSH.  You have to know what your Free T4 and Free T3 are..my doc mainly goes by those and he's the first one to ever get me out of a hypo state.  I believe my Hashi's antibodies have gotten better due to a huge diet change tho I could do better.  I'm a sugar addict.  Ugh. 

 

Suzy..I get pains in my legs ( all over) and feet when my Estradiol goes way down so I know how you feel.  It's no fun!  sometimes I freak it's benzo WD but once I take the E it goes away totally. 

So glad you are doing better today! 

 

Janice...Well I do know Gardener 99 very well!  Amazing helpful lady she is.  I reached out to her when I first got on BB back in 2017 and she told me how to taper....honestly I don't know how she put up with my millions of questions.  Between her and Builder we had a game plan but I refused to put alcohol in my liquid benzo (Librium is water soluable).  But unfortunately, I tried to taper like I said and failed and decided to wait.  I'm still waiting!  but I just got back on here a few weeks ago and noticed Gardener had jumped...I was super happy for her.  Very brave lady.    I didn't realize Oscar had gotten so depressed.  I wonder what happened to him. 

 

thyroid meds are tricky.  We have to up them very slowly.  And we do become sensitive to any hormone change during benzo WD.   

 

Don'tforget.....what were your TSH ranges?  However Free T3 is a huge indicator.. I have to keep mine in the upper quarter range testing at 6 hours after taking thyroid med.  I couldn't do a T4 only med like Synthroid as my liver apparently doesn't convert my T4 to the usable T3 very well.  All very confusing and most endos don't know as much as they should.  I was kept hypo for years due to a doctor who only went by my TSH #'s. 

 

Also note that thyroid meds affect the heart so it's always wise to go up very slowly.  I have tachycardia so I have to be super careful with it all. 

[[De...]]

Thanks Lib,

That is good information. The thyroid can be tricky. I feel alot hetter than yesterday.  I think it was the benzo sensitivity.  I am going to have to look at my levels again. I started gety8mg the muscle pains after a co from x to v. It was terrible. Plus i eas on a statin for about 5 mos. I stopped. So i think that is what vaused it but you never know . I wonder what happened to Oscar. Hope he 8s ok.

[[Li...]]

dehytq2....yes, I've heard of people converting and having issues...especially if they weren't converted to the right amount.  I know a lady who tapered her K in milk and did well on it..I think it's fat soluable.  these damn benzos don't like to be messed with.  I tried Valium back in the day before having my wisdom teeth pulled.  It was way too strong for me..couldn't function.  Librium has been amazing..it's not strong so didn't feel the kinda sedation I did on Valium.  It's weird how each of us tolerate different benzos in different ways.  I had been on Xanax a few weeks after giving birth but that didn't help my jaw pain at all.  I simply need a longer acting med.  I applaud my doc for putting me on the right one as able to raise my son.  Now I just call him an idiot...lol.  Back in 1998 tho they didn't know about the dangers of these drugs much.  One day if it turns on me I'll be cursing him I'm sure. 

 

Take care of yourself!

[[De...]]

Hi lib,

The valium felt like a fog and very sedating. Did nothing for anxiety. I went back to k and immediately alot of sx left. Left with the remnants of the pins and needles and muscle pain. Kind of makes me mad. I didn't do the co right.

I didnt know and neither did the dr. She also said when i wamt to come off i will have to go to a detox. I got a new psych. I wasnt on bb yet. I wish i was but was but to scared to join. Stupid. Well its water under the bridge. I could barely walk for 8 mos. I am doimg better. But it kind of disabled me. I wish i listened to my gut and not the drs. I mew it was benzo causing my problems. Ly Suzy

 

[[Do...]]

Thanks for your feedback Ladies! I was aware that just because the TSH was in range did not equate to symptomatic-free, which is why I’ve continued to research Hashimotos treatment. It is so hard to know what sx are benzo related, AD related or something else (such as thyroid related). I so look forward to the day when I am off all meds and can take a real assessment of my health.

Can anyone help me to know what specific test should be done to get a level for the antibody?

Back in September I asked my PCP to run a slew of tests in preparation for the endo I was seeing. I based it on testing recommended in a book I was reading. My levels were as follows:

 

TSH 3.170

FT3 2.8

FT4 1.05

Reverse T3 13.1

Thyroglobulin Antibody <1.0

TPO 59 (High)

WBC 3.1 (Low)

Immunoglobulin A 56 (Low- Celiac Panel component)

Creatinine 1.01 (High)

LDL 101 (High)

HgA1c 5.4

 

Previous testing:

TSH 2.3 on 12/18/18

TSH 1.480 on 9/28/18

TPO 70 (High) on 9/28/18

TPO 42 (High) on 11/11/15

Thyroglobulin Antibody <1.0 On 11/11/15

 

Val- perhaps you are right and I should give the levothyroxine another chance. I didn’t take it for more than maybe 4 days. Once I felt anxiety rising, I stopped. And once I have documented that, follow up with the endo doc.

 

Lib, I’d love if you would share one or two of your favorite thyroid groups you mentioned.  My TSH is slowly on the rise so I am best to be informed for the future if not now. And too am in the sugar addict club . I never used to be but since the summer I have been craving it like crazy. I do think it is because I gave up alcohol and continued to want that sugar intake. I need to start doing something about it though because while I can’t say I have a “beer belly”, I’m certainly developing a belly!!

 

Dehytq2- Thanks for the practical advice. The thyroid is a tricky little bugger and can have a big impact in many areas. Best to do our research and proceed slowly.

 

Happy weekend!! Wishing you all well!!

 

 

[[De...]]

Hi Dont,

 

I am doing research on this myself. I really never gave it much thought. I thought I was ok and all my sx were benzos. Plus, I dont know alot about the thyroid. Of course it would come up now in bed. The sx can be so close. Maybe call your dr. See what he says. Tell him about the anxiety and see what he or she says. Maybe it was too much. It is important to keep your levels in range. It's good you have an endo. My ldl is high to and thyroid can cause that and I can't take a statin. Ahhhhhh. Dam benzos. I have muscle pain and shooting cramps in my legs. Waa. Maybe lib and val no more. Def keep on top of your levels. Ugh

[[Do...]]

Thanks dehytq2! I should be precise- I don’t know what is benzo sx vs thyroid sx vs perimenopause sx!! :-o. This is why being on this bb is good for me. Not only do I learn from all of you but I also put things to paper and REREAD it. It helps me gain clarity. Otherwise I stay all caught up in my head and don’t see the big picture. You guys ROCK!

[[De...]]

I know Dont. Same here. I am always afraid to put another med in the mix. It causes confusion. That's a good idea. I think I will starting writing things down too. We will get through this!! 

[[Li...]]

Dont4get.....thanks for sharing your lab #'s.  You are definitely hypo!  that Free T3 is pretty low.  that low would cause me hair loss.  Most need it around 4...mine goes up to 4.7  6 hrs after taking thyroid meds.  I dose twice a day on it.  I tell ya the miracle of it all is my lipid panel improved significantly...even without a change in my diet and still no exercise.  However, my good cholesterol needs to go up.  I blame that on lack of exercise.  My old doc kept me hypo and I could never get my cholesterol at good levels.  so glad my GYN does it all for me.  Also you do have Hashis...TPO shows that and what they test for..but they aren't high #'s.  Read Medical Medium's books...you may be able to get it down with diet changes and never even get on thyroid meds. 

 

I thought many things happening to me were due to maybe my benzo wasn't working for me anymore but after getting on hormones and getting thyroid optimal I found out that it was all hormonal for me. Of course if I ever brave tapering down  I'm sure all #'s will go wonky.  Like you ladies have said, it's hard to know what is causing what.  I just know for me it's the Hashis or lack of sex hormones. 

 

Well I belonged to a thyroid group on FB called TAWKI...they follow the "stop the madness" thyroid book.  My doc doesn't follow that tho.  I'm not on FB anymore so I can't remember the name of the other group I was in but it was a Hashi's group.  sometimes these groups give out false information which pissed off my doctor.  It's why I had to get outta them...it can be helpful for some things tho.  They are extremely picky about Iron/Ferritin levels and cortisol levels as well.  they deal with adrenals as well.  They basically told me I couldn't do a 4-pt cortisol test without getting off my AD and benzo as it would give false readings.  I now just listen to my doc cause that group ended up putting me in a hyper state and I was having big time heart palps with anxiety.  Now as I type this maybe stay away from TAWKI...it was like a cult.  If your curious you can read the STTM website.  They have values for all labs.  I can't remember the values for Reverse Free T3 but yours may be borderline depending on the lab ranges. Most have to bring that down by using just Cytomel (T3) only. It's all so confusing.  No doubt you have Hashis with a low functioning thyroid.  Armour and Naturethyroid or NP are the names of T4/T3 meds which seem to work better for Hashi's patients.  I've found that out to be true for myself as well. 

 

I've also learned that benzos can affect the HPA axis and cause issues as well...dang meds.  At least I can rectify that with hormones, etc.  It is what it is.  Many in my sex hormone group (they cover thyroid sometime as well) get anxiety on thyroid meds at first.  It takes a couple of weeks to adjust to the dose and if not will need to be lowered...you can even have them compounded to go up even slower.   

 

I've found many going through Peri and menopause where there hormones become imbalanced often cause the thyroid to go outta wack as well.  Very common.  they are all connected. 

 

Again, I don't recommend making changes to any hormones in benzo WD as I've read much too often how it can really screw up the taper.  However, you don't want the thyroid to get too bad.  There's where the diet change comes in to prevent it from getting worse.  BUT if benzos are disrupting the HPA axis then maybe once you are off and healed you won't have a thyroid issue anymore.  But I haven't heard of that happening.  The thyroid is just vital and needs to be addressed.  Just keep getting your levels checked periodically.  I guess that's why I don't taper as these hormones are a bitch to balance.  I suppose I could stop them all again and get balanced hormones of zero!!  lol.  But I suffered too much that way.  And when that happens my thyroid meds have to be changed as well. 

 

Dont4get...congrats on getting off the alcohol!  I'm never gonna be sugar free but I have to cut down...and I'll feel awful for about a week when I do. Then it will pass.  Sugar is so hard for me to get off of.  Good luck to you!!    I love your determination on getting off your meds after such a long time on them. 

 

Dang, I wrote a book!!

 

 

[[va...]]

Lib I'm impressed at how much you know 😮. I really can't start learning all this as I can't become an endocrinologist because I'm too busy being my own psychiatrist. I spend all day with tormenting thoughts about being stuck on 2.5 Valium forever as I'm really symptomatic and could never taper like this. It's always refreshing to read how confident you feel about just staying on your benzo dose. I need to learn that and every time I read you it helps. I hope you're all a bit more stable today. Love and healing 💐💐

[[De...]]

Omg..it is not easy being a women! For all i know it coukd have been hormones and thyroid for the past few years messing ne up. I did lower my k alot though. So I guess it was all three. Thanks lub, that is good infornation. I have not felt right for a few years. What a waste.  You would think the drs would have known. I was runnung around everywere why do i feel this way. Well i guess menopwuse shakes up your world. Then we have to put ourselves back together again. Ly Suzy

[[va...]]

Good God Suzy I don't even have the menopause yet. I hope I've finally found some stability from the crash before the menopause comes or else I don't know how I'm going to deal with this.

[[Li...]]

Ladies, I have to apologize tho for putting up such a long and confusing post.  I don't have benzo brain so I realized I should not have put out so much information to those of you tapering.. it's hard enough to understand it all as it is. And I hope I didn't scare anyone. 

 

Valiumnomore....I tapered with a DMLT for 3 days and got slammed with pain so I knew then and there I needed to just go back to my whole dose and not taper down....that this was gonna be a very hard and long journey which could put me in hell for the rest of my life and I couldn't chance it.  I stabilized pretty quickly of course since it was just 3 days.  And after C/Ting off 2 Gaba-ergic hormones it took a good while to stabilize but I did.  won't go through any of that again.  I'm so sorry you still are feeling so bad.  I know it can take time to get stable.  I feel good about staying on my benzo and no one can convince me otherwise.  Plus I feel good for the most part.  I really hoped I could get off but know it won't be worth it for me.  Take it one day atta time.  Try not to worry about staying on the drug for the rest of your life...many do with no issues.  I think once you stabilize you can get your life back and not have to think about it.  You may have to updose even more but I'm not too knowledgeable on that.  I just can't chance it. 

 

Dehytq2.....menopause can be very bad for many women.  Many in the hormone group have sxs very similar to Benzo WD but it's just hormones!  Crazy stuff!  I never thought it would this hard. 

 

I'll pray for you ladies.  Again I apologize for such a lengthy post when I know you all have such a sensitive CNS.....less bombardment of information the better!  Love to you all!

[[De...]]

You may be perimenopausal. That comes before menopause. That usually starts in your maybe mid to late 40s. I guess it could be different for everyone. Then the average age for menopause is 51. You will be ok. Nothing is as bad as bad. You may have perimenopausal sx and not know. Nights sweats. Mood swings. I dont even know cuz of the bwd. It all blends.

[[va...]]

Thank you Suzy, I have no idea. I do know my period is always once a month exactly and my mother had menopause at age 56, but probably I'm already perimenopausic, I have no idea. Oh how I wish we felt better and could taper again. I know you're struggling so badly I can feel it in your posts. Me too. We can only keep going one day at a time, what choice is there? I hope your pain eases. As bad as your mental symptoms are, I think you can work if your pain eases. If it didn't, could you apply for disability? Your therapist insists you have fybromialgia doesn't she?

[[De...]]

Hi Janice,

 

You might be getting perimenopausal sx. Maybe not if your mother had hers at 56. If he's wasn't so bad maybe yours won't be either. My pain is up and down. I applied for disability. I didn't want to at all. So I have to wait. I think it is really ok to hold if you aren't feeling good. I can tell your anxiety and fear are very bad right know. There has to be something we can do for anxiety.  I know it is hard. Sometimes it comes out of nowhere. Dont worry about cutting so much. When you are ready you take of a tiny amount. Then hold, You pr

[[De...]]

You probably won't feel it much. Then you won't have to cut for a while. Only when your ready. Slow and steady. Look at be good. She tapered sooo slow and she is fine. Did you try to talk with her? She may be able to calm you down. She has that way about her. Very knowlegable,

[[va...]]

Yes Suzy, begood is in the updose group. I asked her how long it took her to get more or less stable after a crash and updose. She said around one year. I feel I'm looking at that or more, or never, who knows. Some people never stabilize. I really want to lower my expectations and keep them low. Hope hurts me more. I have to go with what I've got and not assume that l will get better because some people don't. Maybe I will and maybe I won't. Suzy I hope you get the disability. When will you get the first interview for that? I'm rooting for you 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[[Do...]]

Dont4get.....thanks for sharing your lab #'s.  You are definitely hypo!  that Free T3 is pretty low.  that low would cause me hair loss.  Most need it around 4...mine goes up to 4.7  6 hrs after taking thyroid meds.  I dose twice a day on it.  I tell ya the miracle of it all is my lipid panel improved significantly...even without a change in my diet and still no exercise.  However, my good cholesterol needs to go up.  I blame that on lack of exercise.  My old doc kept me hypo and I could never get my cholesterol at good levels.  so glad my GYN does it all for me.  Also you do have Hashis...TPO shows that and what they test for..but they aren't high #'s.  Read Medical Medium's books...you may be able to get it down with diet changes and never even get on thyroid meds. 

 

Well I belonged to a thyroid group on FB called TAWKI...they follow the "stop the madness" thyroid book.  My doc doesn't follow that tho.  I'm not on FB anymore so I can't remember the name of the other group I was in but it was a Hashi's group.  sometimes these groups give out false information which pissed off my doctor.  It's why I had to get outta them...it can be helpful for some things tho.  They are extremely picky about Iron/Ferritin levels and cortisol levels as well.  they deal with adrenals as well.  They basically told me I couldn't do a 4-pt cortisol test without getting off my AD and benzo as it would give false readings.  I now just listen to my doc cause that group ended up putting me in a hyper state and I was having big time heart palps with anxiety.  Now as I type this maybe stay away from TAWKI...it was like a cult.  If your curious you can read the STTM website.  They have values for all labs.  I can't remember the values for Reverse Free T3 but yours may be borderline depending on the lab ranges. Most have to bring that down by using just Cytomel (T3) only. It's all so confusing.  No doubt you have Hashis with a low functioning thyroid.  Armour and Naturethyroid or NP are the names of T4/T3 meds which seem to work better for Hashi's patients.  I've found that out to be true for myself as well. 

 

I've also learned that benzos can affect the HPA axis and cause issues as well...dang meds.  At least I can rectify that with hormones, etc.  It is what it is.  Many in my sex hormone group (they cover thyroid sometime as well) get anxiety on thyroid meds at first.  It takes a couple of weeks to adjust to the dose and if not will need to be lowered...you can even have them compounded to go up even slower.   

 

I've found many going through Peri and menopause where there hormones become imbalanced often cause the thyroid to go outta wack as well.  Very common.  they are all connected. 

 

Again, I don't recommend making changes to any hormones in benzo WD as I've read much too often how it can really screw up the taper.  However, you don't want the thyroid to get too bad.  There's where the diet change comes in to prevent it from getting worse.  BUT if benzos are disrupting the HPA axis then maybe once you are off and healed you won't have a thyroid issue anymore.  But I haven't heard of that happening.  The thyroid is just vital and needs to be addressed.  Just keep getting your levels checked periodically.  I guess that's why I don't taper as these hormones are a bitch to balance.  I suppose I could stop them all again and get balanced hormones of zero!!  lol.  But I suffered too much that way.  And when that happens my thyroid meds have to be changed as well. 

 

Dont4get...congrats on getting off the alcohol!  I'm never gonna be sugar free but I have to cut down...and I'll feel awful for about a week when I do. Then it will pass.  Sugar is so hard for me to get off of.  Good luck to you!!    I love your determination on getting off your meds after such a long time on them. 

 

Dang, I wrote a book!!

------------------------------

 

Lib- Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. No, you didn't scare me at all! You gave me a lot to think about which is good. My brain has been working hard to soak up all the info this site has to offer. I have to ask a very naive question tho. Can you explain (or lead me to best resource for) what the difference is between being hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's? I guess I thought they were one in the same. I did read that cholesterol can be affected by thyroid being out of alignment and I suspect that is true for me as I have always had low cholesterol. I'm trying to remember the book I read that had the list of recommended testing. I'll post when I find it. I found the STTM website. Awesome resource!!

 

Yes, giving up the alcohol was a necessity. I have been battling that demon for even longer than these dang psych meds. I have a lot of "feeling" ahead of me when I get rid of the meds. It's gonna be one helluva ride.    So happy for you that your gyn is so helpful! I wasn't impressed by the endo doc I met. But really, how much can you connect with a provider during a 20 min. appt?? I so wish I had money to find a functional med dr to work with for all of this. But I am not making enough $ to cover my expenses as it is. I do love my gyn and have been with her for years but she is so busy and I don't think she'd have the time to spend with me on this that I think I need. But I'll think about reaching out to her about it. Maybe she can recommend someone she likes. I am tempted to try taking half of the 25 levo and see if I can get passed the anxiety stage but I hear you on waiting until I get through this taper. I am not a patient person... but I am learning.

 

I so appreciate the good conversation happening here. Dehy- you have me a little worried about the "starving thing". I am already ravenous due to quitting alcohol. I am doomed if it gets worse! :-o  I am so sorry for you ladies that you have to hold when you want to move forward. Let's just stick together. We will all get where we need to be in due time.

 

Big hugs to all! <3

[[Li...]]

Dont4get....I hear that a lot in my hormone group...that women have issues with endos...I think the STTM site mentions their lack of understanding on the thyroid.  Why I don't know. 

 

Hypo which I've been for many years is when your thyroid becomes underactive...can happen as we age, or when hormones go off, etc.  Hashis is your immune system attacking your thyroid ...usually indicative of inflammation in the body which I have a lot of.  I get all my resources from my hormone group on FB and what my doc tells me basically.  Some functional docs don't even treat Hashis with meds...they treat the inflammation with diet changes, Vit C in high doses...etc.  If you are on FB you can find really good Hashi groups that can explain it better.  I have Celiac and that seems to coincide with Hashis as I got Hashis about 5 years after being diagnosed with Celiac.  One AI disease seems to lead to another.  My diet isn't helping matters at all.  One of my New Year's resolutions. 

 

I would love a functional med doc as well but can't afford one.  We have plenty here in Houston and in surrounding areas.  There is a good book by Dr. Isabella Wentz who cured her thyroid with diet changes...it's a very popular book.  I should read it one day.  Everything seems to start in the gut...take care of that first and go from there.  wish I had loads of money!!

 

My Grandfather could never give up the alcohol.  I hear that can be hard to stop so kudos to you!  Keep up your positive attitude..it will get you far.  You never know...your journey may not be that bad at all if you go super slow.  I should take my own advice...I'm just a wus.  lol. 

 

My GYN is super busy as well but I'm his special patient he calls me.  haha.  Love the guy.  I always have a million questions for him.  But functional med seems the way to go these days.  I hope you can find a dose of thyroid med that works for you! 

 

BTW, I'm always ravenous...it's my meds tho I think.  I was warned about that tho.  I need to put on some weight ...that's another thing I worry about in WD...that I would lose so much.  I have bad PTSD from back  when I was in a Celiac flare, not knowing what was going on.  I lost almost 20 lbs.  And I'm a little gal as it is.  Can't risk that happening to me again. 

 

Hope everyone has a good nights' sleep...take care.

 

[[va...]]

Dont4get, thanks for your compassion for us holders. Yes we're in a kind of prison, knowing we want to come off but too unstable to cut. Kuddos for ditching the booze. I liked beer, but benzos have taken that away from me too, forever I guess.

[[De...]]

Hi Janice,

I think you will get better. I think itvis going to take both of us a long time. I understand you dont want to be let down. I try to kerp my expectations low and dont get overly excited over windows vecuz we know they are temporary. Still iys gard. Dont listen to ppl who say they are not geylttinf better. There could be something else going on you dont know about. Try not to read thst kind of stuff. Thats probably one of the readons you are so anxious and fearfyl. I believe in you and never give up hope. I dont know how this disability works so i just wait. Ugh. Read some positive uplifting things. Love you Suzy

 

[[De...]]

Congrats on the alcohol Dont! I am a rec alcoholic too. I think the starvation is going away. When I first upped my levothytoxine O felt run down. Then i was super anxious. Starving. Then all of a sudden I felt fine. So I guess i will stick with it. It hasbeen 10 day i think. I have to find out about hashis too. Dammit. Lol Suzy

[[va...]]

Suzy you're having some insomnia dear one? I wish you were here. I'm in baldy's bar now. Do you care for a croissant? It's on me 🥰

 

My symptoms are not due to reading the bad stuff. I came off Lexapro the second time tapering over four years and reading hundreds of horror stories. My fear is physical. When a person's posts are too triggering I try to stop reading them but I don't think I want to live in a bubble of positivity either. It's not realistic. I was never allowed to be a kid, I had a very crappy childhood and always had to deal with reality as nobody was there to save me from it. Nobody is going to do it for me now either so I really prefer to face it. I think there are different outcomes here : I could stabilize and taper again, or I might have to stay on the med. I just want to be realistic and stick to proven facts. There's of course a big chance I'll stabilize and be able to taper again like begood and olive kitty, but I tell myself that if that doesn't happen and I have to stay on the med, then I will and it's OK.

 

Suzy I wish you were sleeping. You want me to send cow and rabbit over there? 😉🤣

[[De...]]

Haha,

I woke up at 4!! I fell asleep early watching videos.  I would l9ve a croissant! Ooh baldy is there!! Maybe he likes you he is tgere alot! 😉 I know the sx are phydical. I get them too. I have veen so tired of this for a long time. Sometimes i wonder how i go on. I guess we have no choice. I have always been kind of positive by nature. Maybe i am naive about things. I have read alot too. I am sorry your childhood was so hard for you. I have some things i see now about mine that are have been damaging as well. I yryky hope yoy can get of the drug. If you feel you cannot that is your choice and i understand. Just want you to feel ok and not live in benzo hell. I may n9t even be able to get off the effexor and gabapentin. I dont think.i want to taper druhs for the rest of my life and ferl sick all the time. As long as i get of this benzo i will be hapoy

I dont think i will ever stabiluze on it. Tjat is just me. It does nothing for me. It just jeeos away withdrawals and i cannot live that way. That is my reality. It sucks for sure. Love you Suzy