ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

[[bo...]]

Greetings. Brief visit. I've been at 2mg for the past week or so, and going well.

Will cut to 1.5mg next Tuesday. Gets a bit interesting now with cut and hold as I'll chopping a 2mg into quarters from here on.

[[ro...]]

Bolders,

 

Great..

Right behind you..

Rose

[[ar...]]

Great job bolders!

[[la...]]

that's the way uh huh uh huh I like it uh huh...anyone remember that song? anyway Bolder...keep paving the way.

 

I am excited at the thought of 5 mgs

 

now back to my earlier rant...who else thinks that Ashton is a miss with her equivalency?

[Guest [in...]]

bolders 2mg!!! You are inspiring. 

 

Lainey My pdoc wanted me to c/o to 5mg Valium from .5mg Klonopin. But I did 10mg Valium. I talked to her about what I was comfortable with at the time. I did well, altho was tired and sleepy, dreamy like for 2 weeks or less. I didnt feel any cuts until 8mg to 7.5mg, so maybe I could've c/o to 8mg instead. I think Ashton's equivalencies may be a bit high, but it helped me to be a little higher b/c I had so much extra anxiety about the c/o. And Valium seems to be ok for me.  Plus I was able to cut every 2 weeks then, which helped me get down in dose quicker. 

 

Hope all are ok today. 

[[No...]]

 

I am a bit "miffed" at the Ashton equivalency chart. I find that all US charts are not even close to hers. So I have been banging away at this V since April 2014 and by Ashton I will be at the equivalency of .25mg Kpin in a week. All other charts have me at 1.5mgs!!!!!!  I was on only .75mg Kpin when I c/o :o

So who do I believe?  If I believe the US charts I am on more drugs then when I started

 

That is what really makes me sad/mad/confused. I could have been off this by now if I had c/o to less V

 

anyway I am hoping to continue cutting .5mg all the way down. that would mean...if I can actually achieve this goal, I could be off in 5 MONTHS?!?!

 

I wonder if it's even possible to know this, lainey. How do they determine equivalency? I can't imagine what it's based on if there's such a significant discrepancy.

 

My doctor (whom I refer to with all due respect as Dr. Idiot  ) subscribed to the lower equivalency of the U.S. chart, but she wanted me to up-dose, so I ended up on the Ashton equivalency. It seemed right to me, but then I went somewhat paradoxical on Valium, so I regretted being on more of it, too. That's part of the reason I went with the Ashton taper--so I could get off as soon as possible, but still safely.

 

I wish there were definitive answers for us all. 

 

NONO; did you have much anxiety during the taper? You spoke in great detail of the depression which I know my friend Rose needed desperately to read. But what about this unshakeable anxiety?

 

During my taper, I had a lot of physical "panic attacks" (I'd never had a panic attack before), but these attacks didn't translate in my mind as anxiety. At the time, I thought I was being a badass, but now I think it was more likely because I was so thoroughly entrenched in derealization that I couldn't connect with myself enough to feel an emotion about it. That was probably a blessing. It allowed me to stay calm and breathe through it until it passed, anyway.

 

When I began to feel anxiety, it played out for me much like the depression. That is, I haven't had it often and it hasn't lasted long, but when I have had it, it's off the freakin' charts. I can't even rightly describe it as anxiety. It's sheer terror. Like, I didn't know that level of fear was within the realm of human experience unless you were, say, one moment away from being eaten by a bear. Yeesh.

 

The further I get from my taper, the closer my anxiety feels to how it felt pre-Klonopin. It's connected to an actual event, for one thing (no matter how irrationally), rather than coming out of nowhere and trying to kill me. The other thing is that I handle it a lot better than I used to. I don't know if that's because I'm older or because I've been through the sheer terrors of withdrawal (which make regular anxiety seem, uh, relaxing?). It's probably both.

 

Are you able to distract when you have anxiety? I find distraction works much better with anxiety than with depression. My mind is already flying around, I guess, so it's a bit easier to land elsewhere. Sometimes that was a computer game; often it was focusing on learning a new skill (I actually learned a lot of stuff during withdrawal). Other times, it was curling up into a fetal position and pulling a blanket over my head (not kidding--I did this many, many times).

 

I had to learn how to be exceedingly kind and gentle with myself during withdrawal, which is proving to be a useful new skill in itself. I can't recommend it strongly enough.

 

 

 

[[ar...]]

that's the way uh huh uh huh I like it uh huh...anyone remember that song? anyway Bolder...keep paving the way.

 

I am excited at the thought of 5 mgs

 

now back to my earlier rant...who else thinks that Ashton is a miss with her equivalency?

 

Lainey,

 

I was up to .25 xanax which is equivalent to 5mg Valium.  My pdoc started me at 8mg valium because I had other circumstances.  When I was going through Xanax w/d and not knowing it, I hadn't slept for 4 days straight.  Went to ER and they failed to identify benzo w/d and pumped me full of Ativan to get me to sleep (idiot ER doctor).  I have no idea how much Ativan they pumped into me.  This made my w/d symptoms worse and I wasn't able to see my pdoc for two days so I went through a hellish benzo w/d for two days thanks to the ER.  My pdoc started me on a super rapid taper with Valium which failed.  He then started a taper at 8mg which then got rid of all my physical symptoms and made me sleepy for awhile.  Basically I was jumped all over the place.  Who knows if starting at 5mg would have evened me out but too late now anyway.  I just want to get off this stuff asap and found the taper rate that works for my mind and body.  Is Ashton's chart correct?  Who knows...I think everyone reacts differently.  I think her chart is based on data from her hundreds of patients she treated through the years.  I guess you could say it's more of a guide.  I would trust her chart over any American chart because American Doc's hand this stuff out like candy unfortunately.

[[eg...]]

I am wondering why Ashton has us cut to just 1 dose / day- I have not been doing that - been taking part of the night dose as needed during the day and what's left before bed. This was working fine till recently: I am having trouble sleeping.

I wonder if I shoukd white knuckle it through the day and take the rise at night as she wrote - maybe sleep better?

Ant thoughts/ experience appreciated!

[[ar...]]

I am wondering why Ashton has us cut to just 1 dose / day- I have not been doing that - been taking part of the night dose as needed during the day and what's left before bed. This was working fine till recently: I am having trouble sleeping.

I wonder if I shoukd white knuckle it through the day and take the rise at night as she wrote - maybe sleep better?

Ant thoughts/ experience appreciated!

 

Ego,

 

I am doing the same as you.  I am actually taking a morning, mid and night and have been sleeping fine but I am also concerned what will happen when the doses get lower and lower.  I think I will eliminate the mid day soon and stick with morning and night.

I do it this way so I am not sleepy at work.  I think Ashton did say you can take at the most two doses but I can't remember....everyone is different.  Just remember her manual is just a guide, a place to start.

 

[[ro...]]

Lainey,

I still dose twice a day..

I'm not sure if the 1 mg in the am is helping or not anymore, but it's been my routine..

I dose at about 8 to 9 pm at night..3.25 mg.

 

I'm afraid to mess with my schedule..

 

We'll be closer to lower doses by summer..then do we have longer days? Let's see, spring forward, fall back...no, I guess shorter days???

 

Praying for better days anyway sweetie...

Love rose

[[la...]]

Rose LOOOOONGER days. daylight until 9:00 pm...we spring ahead on March 8th!!!!!

 

I too am staying with my 2 doses as long as possible. dropped afternoon dose when I got to 9mgs

 

Next Friday I will be on 2mgs a.m.  and 3 mgs bedtime

 

I too feel as if the morning dose does absolutely nothing but.....what to do?

[Guest [va...]]

Keep up the good work bolders  , Rose, like NoKlonoNo said don't fight bc you will only feel worse when it comes to depression.  From what I have learned from personal experience is acceptance but still taking tiny steps to take care of yourself bc it helps you gain confidence (waking the dog) is good enough if that's all you can do that day. Hugs and  .

 

I'm a Debbie downer these days. Had a visit to the SX Smörgåsbord. Excruciating migraines, muscle stiffness, family issues/stress, sadness and just plain wishing I did not exist. Been on the couch feeling very sick  .

 

I'm trying to be hopefull that this will pass 

 

 

[[ro...]]

Valley girl,

Thank you for the mention about depression. I'm actually on bed now, did some housework, plumber was here.

 

Gloomy day, but I'm cozy. Taking dog out again about 4.

Hate to hear about the headache and stiffness. Stay warm too.

I understand about the demands of family, stress issues...makes this even seem more uncomfortable, bc we have to find new coping ways..

Lots of us on couches, chairs, beds. I think.

The depression is a biggie for me, I sure hope yours is limited .

Mat this pass for you real soon, sorry you're feeling so bad.

Hugs. Rose

 

 

[Guest [va...]]

I will be thinking about you today.  .

[[Ju...]]

Five days of withdrawal after only a 0.25 cut. How is that fair?

My new theory is that there are some dose ranges that are just harder than others. At some point you drop below a threshold level that your brain needs and the bottom drops out. So I will hold here for another week. Disappointing, but I don't know what else to do. I was so excited about getting to 5 mg and it seems like the end just keeps getting further away. I experimented with splitting my dose once and it didn't help. I feel best for the five hours before I take my evening dose, so that doesn't sound like interdose wothdrawal to me. I feel like I am just blathering on about myself. Benzo withdrawal does that. I wish you all the best, and I am SO grateful for the recovered buddies who are helping us out. I'm holding on to your words like a lifeline.

[[eg...]]

I don't take AD's but I am getting Right  temporal brain zaps.

Last night Was difficult -interment sleep-vivid distressing dreams.

I am thinking about holding till this calms down or should I keep going?

I have been  dosing as needed- taking what is left before bed.

I am going to start a 2x day dosing to try and get evened out.

I had a window since Feb6 with just fatigue and am cortosal crap as long as I pace myself.

I am pushing it maybe to just get done. I want to be done but I want to do it smart.

 

 

[[la...]]

JKS, I too feel my best at 6:00- bedtime. I take my 1st dose at 6:30am and I feel HORRIBLE all day.

I am so looking forward to 5mgs but just as you said there are doses that have been exceptionally harder then others.

 

I know when I hit 8 mgs I thought that was the end

 

not I am going through a real rough time again. Not that any of this has been a cakewalk. But I am waking with really high anxiety most mornings and it is now staying with me most of the day...UGH

 

so we are almost at the same dose lets hold hands and cry this all the way out.

 

I cut .5mgs next Friday and I will then be at 5 mgs....want to wait for me to catch up

[[ro...]]

Hi Lainey, JKS..

 

I'm anxious every morning too. 4 am on, most of the day. I'm resting now, getting ready for breakfast, but feel unstable.

 

Not good sleep last night. Rain, gloomy.

 

Feel like crying. It's only 8:40am. 

 

I'm glad you don't have the depression with the wds.

The anxiety is something I thought would diminish as I got lower. There so much of this tapering that I was naive about.

 

But we all have specific sxs to,ourselves probably.

Think of you everyday..I'm so glad you guys are here.

 

 

Rose

[[Ju...]]

I only slept four hours last night and I am pretty much freaking out. Six days of wave. I am scared. I stabilized before, I will again. I am just so scared. My husband and kids are downstairs making pancakes and I am in bed freaking out. Yes Lainey, I will wait here for you. Before today I worried about what I would do next in the taper, now I just want to level out here.

[[ro...]]

JKS,

Does the v make you kinda depressed? My sleep is bad too. I know that doesn't help us,

 

I'm resting in bed too.

Do you get sleep when days pass? It's crummy for sure.

 

Hugs rose

[[Ju...]]

Not too much depression, just anxiety. i have never had to wait this long for relief from withdrawal symptoms. I have been reading frontsiders blog. It is very positive. He had a week of withdrawal once. The only way out is through. I am just so scared right now.

[[la...]]

Me too, depression is only secondary. Basically its anxiety.

 

so JKS, are you going to hold for another week or so?  I have tried holding up to 4 weeks and never felt better so I just keep cutting. don't know what else to do.

 

But if you hold we will both be at 5 mgs     oh the humanity

[[Ju...]]

I am going to hold another week at 5. If there is any rationality to any of this, when I was cutting 5% every two weeks I was ok, so I will just try to go back to that. If it was just me I would push harder but not being able to take care of my kids just destroys me. I am alone in the house now, my husband took the kids out for an activity. I don't like being alone but I don't like them seeing me like this.

[[la...]]

I know how you feel, we can't feel settled either way. Having family around or not. Its so disturbing

[[Ju...]]

I think I have now read every single post on benzobuddies about how long do symptoms last after a valium cut. Seven days this time and then I finally slept last night. 

 

Now I am faced with having to run around and do all the tings I didnt get done in the last week when really I just want to sit on the grass and stare at the sky.

 

Hope my buddies are doing well.