ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

[[Ol...]]

Just joined last night and Hello, so are we saying, like me taking 1 year to drop .250 mg. Clonazepam and then a second year to drop .250 again, getting to .750 from my high dose of 2 mg. plus Seroquel w/d done as of Nov. 2013. That I can stay at .750 for a while and enjoy life a little more until I start the next drop? Have been on Benzos 20 years and decided to REALLY take it slow, but. shaving a little bit continuously I am always in w/d. Need a break right about now. What do you guys think, 62 years old and it's taken a toll never abused Benzos always stayed at the recommended or lower dose just been a REALLY long time. Thanks

 

 

Now: .750 Clonazepam - .250 x3

          50 mg. Zoloft

[[ar...]]

Hi Old School Benzo,

 

I would suggest finding the Clonazepam/Klonopin support thread.  I don't know much about tapering off of this benzo.  You might find better plans from people who are tapering off the same benzo as you and where to start.  I hope you find a good plan and your taper goes well.

 

I want to give you some inspiration quotes from the Ashton Manual:

 

"But the guide is gleaned from the successful withdrawal experiences of a large

 

number of men and women aged 18-80 with different home backgrounds, occupations, drug

 

histories and rates of withdrawal. The success rate has been high (over 90%), and those who

 

have withdrawn, even after taking benzodiazepines for over 20 years, have felt better both

 

physically and mentally."

 

"(4) Withdrawal in older people. Older people can withdraw from benzodiazepines as

 

successfully as younger people, even if they have taken the drugs for years. A recent trial with an

 

elderly population of 273 general practice patients on long-term (mean 15 years) benzodiazepines

 

showed that voluntary dosage reduction and total withdrawal of benzodiazepines was

 

accompanied by better sleep, improvement in psychological and physical health and fewer visits

 

to doctors. These findings have been repeated in several other studies of elderly patients taking

 

benzodiazepines long-term."  Quote from Ashton Manual.

 

Best Wishes

[Guest [in...]]

Hey Arcade79, If I remember correctly this is be a sign of healing    Is it about people from your past you haven't thought about in a while?

 

Valley Girl,

 

You are correct.  It's about people I haven't thought about or have seen in many years.  My last dream was I opened up a hamburger joint with an old friend from High School.

 

All, in response to your Facebook comments, here is a great article about contentment and social media.  I quit Facebook a long time ago.  I was always comparing my life to others and decided I had enough of it and was content with my life.

 

http://zenhabits.net/miraculous/

 

My dreams are mainly about very strong emotions. I am usually feeling anger and a crushing sadness. I do not feel depressed when I wake up or during any other times, no sadness, rarely anxiety. I believe the dreams may be expressing my emotions that have been numbed by meds. Im relaxed and happy most days. I usually have these dreams after a cut, and sometimes a week or so after.

I never got into Facebook. I decided to stay away from that. But I sure am addicted to BBs! In the best way possible. I need this support on my journey off benzos. This site has been good for me, the people here are good and caring! 

[[ro...]]

Ingrid,

 

[[ro...]]

Valley girl, JKS, buddies

Thanks for all being nearby. Lovely people..

 

Rose

[[Ju...]]

Just adding to the love pile after several hours of burning shooting pains instead of sleep this morning. Oh well, it will probably be better soon. OldSchool- I tapered off klonopin and it is possible. Just dont go back! Switching to valium is an option if you have a supportive doctor. The people on Klonopin Klub are knowledgeable and helpful.

 

Does anyone talk to the members who started this thread- Noklono, koko, jackie brown? I could use some encouragement from them but I dont know any of them well enough to ask them to come back.

[Guest [va...]]

Yes everyone this is the best thread with the best people  I'm wouldn't be here if it wasn't you guys.

 

Arcade79 you cracked me up with that hamburger joint dream  . I hope it wasn't a nightmare Glad to hear your content and happy with your own life  I will check out the link you sent today...thanks!

 

Ingrid, I'm so glad you stay away from Facebook and are happy and do not suffer from depression or anxiety. You are such sweetie  .

 

JKS , you should just reach out to Koko and the others. Send a private message. I did when I first got on this thread and she got back to me. Let her know what you are going through and I bet she will respond with some encouragement. Things end and change all the time. Of course your symptoms will pass. Sometimes I just don't fight it and accept them it eases the pain and is a little more tolerable till it goes away. Stay strong my friend 

[[eg...]]

Couple " bad" days then today- I feel good!

I am back to doing my routine which helps give my life shape.

I cut again yesterday even though I was in a wave and what do you know- today is better!

Hope

[[No...]]

Just adding to the love pile after several hours of burning shooting pains instead of sleep this morning. Oh well, it will probably be better soon. OldSchool- I tapered off klonopin and it is possible. Just dont go back! Switching to valium is an option if you have a supportive doctor. The people on Klonopin Klub are knowledgeable and helpful.

 

Does anyone talk to the members who started this thread- Noklono, koko, jackie brown? I could use some encouragement from them but I dont know any of them well enough to ask them to come back.

 

Hi JKS (and fellow Ashton travelers). I bring encouragement (I hope)! 

 

I'm almost 13 months free. I wish I could tell everyone here exactly what to expect, because I remember wanting to know that so much. I can't, of course. It's bizarre how much all this varies. I can tell you--without reservation--that I have no regrets about following the Ashton method. My taper sucked like a bucket of ticks, but I felt better as I got lower in dosage, and aside from a couple of weeks of increased vertigo and floaty-boatiness, I felt better still once I was off completely. In fact, for most of the past year, I've felt better than I felt for the last several years I was still taking the stupid drug (not saying a whole lot, because it was making me sick, but nonetheless, miles and miles better).

 

And I'm glad to see this thread still happening. It helped me a lot when I was tapering to have this support.

 

I'll share more about my experience if it will be of help to someone. Just ask. 

[[ro...]]

Hi noklonono,

I'm rose, I'm tapering from valium, co from ativan..

 

Many years.

 

I'm dry cutting, holding 2-3 weeks. .25 mg. cuts now...

 

Did you dry cut all the way?

 

Did you have depression or insomnia too. The 4 am adrenaline surges are scarey and annoying.

Sweating, heart racing, feeling of dread.

 

I  don't want  you to relive bad times, but could you share?

 

I'm trying so hard, worry about lower doses..I don't sleep. Cry a lot. Jackie is great too..very supportive,reassuring.

 

I'm 62 yrs young, but weary..

I wpuld appreciate any info, thank you,

Rose

[[Ju...]]

Thanks for the support Noklono! I know it is possible to recover, but the benzo lies are so strong. I wish I could just follow a schedule and be done but I am trying to stay functional for my two daughters. As you say it is all a guess and a mess because who knows what would happen if I went faster/slower. All I know for sure is getting off is the right thing to do.

 

Rose- I woke up at 4am exactly as you described for the third day in a row. It helps me to know without a shadow of a doubt that this is a withdrawal symptom and it will pass. Maybe the fact that it is happening to me too will help you? If I let myself think that it is because I am anxious or I have "no sleep word" then it spirals, but if I can just breathe and think that this is what my brain has to do to heal... I still feel like a bucket of ticks as Noklono said, but not so scared.

[[ja...]]

Hi to all my fellow buddies doing the cut and hold method. Hi No No!! I would like to echo what No No said, It gets better. I am almost 11 months off and I am starting to feel wonderful. I need to update my blog today or tomorrow. Just recently my sleep has been so sweet. I still wake up to use the restroom, but I sleep like I'm in a cocoon. It has been so peaceful feeling.

 

I felt I was dying all the time when I was tapering. I was scared and lonely. Last night I went to see a movie with my husband and a week ago I went to see a movie with my best friend. I am feeling alive and you will too. Keep holding on to hope. And know without a doubt that your life will be even better then before.

 

If I can leave you with just one word it word be faith. Faith is believing even if you don't see proof. Faith is confidence in what you are hoping for. There is an assurance in faith.

 

This is a very long road I know, and all your doubts are very normal due to the nasty drug. You are still you underneath it all. You are still the vibrant wonderful caring person you have always been. All the pain and anxiety are lies from the drug. Don't you believe any of it. Faith.

 

Love you all

Jackie :smitten:

[[ro...]]

Jackie thank you. my internet out bc of  high winds. using  tiny keypad on phone. i just cut .25 this morning. you and nokono give me hope. hug you to pieces.  im  tired  and  alone  but i never feel lonely with all of you.  love u much for posting this.  love rose

[Guest [va...]]

Thank you NoKlonoNo and jackie brown for popping in to support us on our Ashton journey. I too am having a hard time. I have a history of migraines and now they are worse and have a history of depression so it's hard to have faith but I take comfort in what you both have said. When I'm off V maybe the anti-depessents will take affect bc they sure don't work now.

 

JKS hang in there. I have a ADHD 10 year old boy I'm trying to stay strong for. I feel so guilty. He is such a handful and wears me down 24/7. Take comfort that you are doing your best and as they know you love them. This is not your fault.

 

Hey rosegal, I'm dry cutting too. It's hard bc I'm cutting .5 and they crumble so not sure how to even go to a lower dose. I just decided that I'm going to try to stick it out at .5 and hold for 3 weeks. I'm 51 and feel weary too.

[Guest [in...]]

I just noticed that this thread was started in 12/13! So, Thanks  to Jackie and NoKlono for coming back and giving words of inspiration!  Im sure you both know how much it means to us in the trenches. Reading of good outcomes is music to my ears, dear BBs. 

[[ar...]]

I was having a hard time between 7mg and 5.5mg but that was a lot of trial and error in the beginning of the taper plan.  I am at 4.5mg right now with a nice slow reduction of benzo in the blood.  For some reason now, out of the blue, I can start feeling the healing process (hopefully I am not jumping the gun on this?). 

 

Yesterday I was so busy and running around at work, I've actually felt like my old self for once.  I put on my headphones last night, listened to nature sounds and fell asleep on the couch.  Hopefully I continue to feel like this the rest of the way down.  I've been feeling way more energetic the last two days and sleeping a little better.  Of course I still have those weird and funny dreams.  Last night I dreamed of wearing my old football uniform while walking through the walls in my old high school...wtf???  I am sure valley girl will get a kick out of this...LOL 

[Guest [va...]]

Hey arcade79,  , thanks for the laugh football star  .  Last night I had a dream I was living in this funky old worn down mid-century modern house with a lion in it. I was so scared it was going to eat me! Really glad to hear you are doing better .

 

 

[[ar...]]

Hey arcade79,  , thanks for the laugh football star  .  Last night I had a dream I was living in this funky old worn down mid-century modern house with a lion in it. I was so scared it was going to eat me! Really glad to hear you are doing better .

 

Just look at it as healing like you said earlier.

[[...]]

Depersonalized/derealized experience. Do others sometimes feel so disconnected from everyone else around them? I was just in a coffee shop and the lives of others seemed so far from mine, in a deep sense, as if I was a different species (or they were). As if I were a human and they were all chimpanzees.

 

This DP/DR I've read about ... do others experience it? and will it go away? I hate this crazy feeling of being so disconnected from the world. (And I am alone, in fact, too ... and clinically depressed, so those are factors). But this DP/DR thing is spooky to me.

[[Ju...]]

Thanks so much jackie brown. I will hold on to hope and faith.

[Guest [va...]]

Hey NYC4, I have been getting that sense of unreality for a long time. It really sucks because I have A LOT of other symptoms from the  Ashton Manuel that go along with it  .

[[Ki...]]

Hi Buddies, I need some opinions. Im down to .14 mg of Ativan using compounded gummy squares. Ive hit acute withdrawal with crippling anxiety every day all day. It is unbearable and I am just existing hour to hour. I can get any dose I want. My doc is going to drop me by only 10 percent down to .125. But after that I think I need to get off this shit asap. I think its just irritating my nervous system. The dose does not help at all now. Should I go down to .1 then .05 and then off with maybe a week hold in between drops?

[[No...]]

Hi noklonono,

I'm rose, I'm tapering from valium, co from ativan..

 

Many years.

 

I'm dry cutting, holding 2-3 weeks. .25 mg. cuts now...

 

Did you dry cut all the way?

 

Did you have depression or insomnia too. The 4 am adrenaline surges are scarey and annoying.

Sweating, heart racing, feeling of dread.

 

I  don't want  you to relive bad times, but could you share?

 

I'm trying so hard, worry about lower doses..I don't sleep. Cry a lot. Jackie is great too..very supportive,reassuring.

 

I'm 62 yrs young, but weary..

I wpuld appreciate any info, thank you,

Rose

 

Hi, Rose.

 

Yes, I had depression and insomnia (and more).

 

I thought I knew what depression was going into this, but I’d never experienced anything close to the depression of withdrawal. Looking back on it now, I think it was probably my most dangerous symptom, because things became so utterly dark at times that I became convinced my family and friends would be relieved to be rid of me. I found no hope, no comfort, nothing positive at all. I couldn’t so much as try reaching out and telling anyone about it—not in real life or on the forum. I didn’t see the point. I didn’t trust anyone. People seemed insincere and, at times, downright menacing, and anyway, I couldn’t imagine another scenario. I could see that others seemed happy, but in my skewed mind, I believed they were simply delusional.

 

It was really, really bad. I’m not able to articulate it yet, but it doesn’t bother me to talk about it at all. In fact, I kind of need to articulate it. I just haven’t found the words. I’m not sure there are words!

 

Anyway, what I did about it (and this isn't advice; I'm just relaying my experience) was … absolutely nothing. That was the only thing I could manage! There was no distracting from it at its most severe. It was too damn big. The only thing I could manage was to refrain from taking action. Sometimes, a successful day was defined by simply not dying. At its worst, it was that bad.

 

But Rose, I’m telling you: it was ALL A BENZO LIE. There must have been some part of me that knew that, though I wasn’t aware of it at the time. That’s another reason I think it was my most dangerous symptom, because it was the one symptom that felt thoroughly solid and permanent while it was happening. It felt like reality. It felt like I’d become privy to some awful truth and everything before it was an illusion.

 

It was unequivocally withdrawal. It’s completely gone now. I haven’t had one of those days for many, many months. If you’re experiencing something like this, hold on. It passes. I hope it's not that bad for you, but whether it is or isn't, hold on, because as much as it may feel like forever, it isn't.

 

As for insomnia, yes to that, too. I had insomnia almost my whole life, so I was expecting it to be bad. There were nights I didn’t sleep at all, and long stretches during my taper when I was getting a couple of hours a night, at most. Then, near the end of my taper, I suddenly started sleeping 8 hours a night. That lasted for about a month, then tanked again. It’s all very weird.

 

Post-taper, I’m absolutely shocked at how relatively good my sleep has been. I still get bouts of insomnia, but it’s so much better than I expected. More nights than not, I get 7-8 hours of sleep now. Even in the worst waves, I’ve managed 3-4 hours.

 

What’s more, like Jackie described (hi, Jackie!), the quality of my sleep is better—better than it’s been in 10 years, I mean. I yawn now, like a normal person, for example. The last few years I was on Klonopin, I stopped yawning. I stopped dreaming, too. If I don’t take Unisom, I dream now, every time I sleep. Amazing.

 

The other thing I want to say is that it used to absolutely terrify me during my taper when I’d read about people continuing to have symptoms after many months (or years!). What it’s important to realize is that, while symptoms may stick around, they don’t stay at anything close to the same intensity. The majority of my symptoms have been gone for a long time. The waves are fewer and far between, and when they happen, they aren’t nearly as intense. I’m sick of it all, for sure, but even if I never improve one bit, I can have a good life exactly the way I am. I know it will keep getting better, though. I know now that I'll recover completely, and I'm even beginning to understand why so many people describe feeling better than they ever have. (I never thought I'd be one of them, though!) There's something profound to be gained from this godawful situation. That probably sounds ridiculous and over-the-top from a tapering standpoint, but it's where I am now, and it's really kind of incredible. (Can you tell I'm feeling great today? I am!)

 

Yikes, I've really rambled, haven't I?    There were other posts I wanted to address, but I'll leave this for now. I hope I've conveyed something useful about how much better this all gets. People write about how it will get better on the forum a lot, I know, but they're not just placating you with empty words. It really happens. It will happen for all of you, too. It will happen whether you believe it or not, but you can believe it, because it's true.

 

 

 

 

 

[[ro...]]

Noklonono,

Hi. It's looks like I've been online, but I left my iPad on.i had a therapist appt. Then had to walk dog, phone calls.

 

Thank you for this post. I too feel much dark depression. My dr is trying to help.im waiting for test results  about my liver metabolism, whether I'm fast or slow. It could help determine if an AD vpuld help. I don't know if you were on any , but, my family all believes I need one..

 

Like you said, some days I can't do anything about the low mood. Just walk dog, eat something, watch tv, get through the day. It's scarey to me to also. I use to get down like everyone now and then, but this is crippling. I keep thinking it was in tolerance then tapering. My family traumas magnified it. At is worst, I too feel like I have to just make it through the day. Sleep is poor. It does not help to feel so raw upon getting out of bed.

 

It does feel like reality, when in fact , I know it is a wd sx. But as you say, at this time, nothing breaks through. It feels forever. It is very bad for me. I cry everyday. I'm holding on mainly bc of my grandson. I want to do so much with him. I think about that..but it is a dangerous sx. I just post here at bb, call my mom, sister, friend...I talk.itry to get outside. Nothing breaks it but I'm just riding it out

, holding on like you did.

 

I thought when I got down to the 4 s, I'd be use to this, or clever about it, but it is a mean grip. I hope I can keep getting through the next months, I wish so hard that the lower dose  would help my depression. Getting off the valium..it's more depressing for some..but these meds depress our cns overall. So, depression is very real.

 

You haven't rambled, you helped explain and reassure me, it's mostly the wd process . I pray I can see some improvement, and keep it in mind that the awfulness, despair, is mainly wds.

You give me hope, you and Jackie. I just have to do my best. And if I'm a bed bunny for some days, then I must be. I'll survive the day........it seems sad in this beautiful life to just exist for now, but that's what it feels like.

I've been helped beyond words...everyone here is a lifeline.

"It really happens".....

I will never forget this phrase.

Hugs for everything

Love rose

[[la...]]

Hi all, NoNo and Jackie, you have NO idea how much reading your experiances helps us/me.

 

I am not having the depression as much as the anxiety. when 1st c/o to V it was the other way around. Now I feel like

I have electricity running through my veins all day long.

 

I was given this because of screw up with my SSRI that I had been on for years (anxiety and insomnia)

and now the I am sicker then when this all started. But I read your posts and I have to say I too can be there some day.

 

I am a bit "miffed" at the Ashton equivalency chart. I find that all US charts are not even close to hers. So I have been banging away at this V since April 2014 and by Ashton I will be at the equivalency of .25mg Kpin in a week. All other charts have me at 1.5mgs!!!!!!  I was on only .75mg Kpin when I c/o :o

So who do I believe?  If I believe the US charts I am on more drugs then when I started

 

That is what really makes me sad/mad/confused. I could have been off this by now if I had c/o to less V

 

anyway I am hoping to continue cutting .5mg all the way down. that would mean...if I can actually achieve this goal, I could be off in 5 MONTHS?!?!

 

NONO; did you have much anxiety during the taper? You spoke in great detail of the depression which I know my friend Rose needed desperately to read. But what about this unshakeable anxiety?

 

Well I made it through another day by GODS grace and mercy. I have no strength on my own.