ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

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Thank you Bart for the explanation,I am learning everyday.Good luck to you in your new Benzo free life.

D21

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Hi everyone

Did any of you have blood glucose elevation (not diabetic) during taper?

D21

[[IG...]]

I'm totally pro Ashton, my motto is don't be so open minded that your brain falls out.

 

[[Be...]]

Im not sure what that is D21, but I had a Dr appt yesterday due to some "separated ribs" and I chatted with my Dr about my benzo taper and some problems I was haivng, so she ordered a test to check for diabetes? is that a blood glucose test??

I was telling her about the over the top excessive urination and she started asking question, like did I have excessive thirst..no, and did I experience a  rapid vision decrease.... yes...

I was hoping it was withdrawals (that sounds strange to say, eh?)

we'll see....

[[La...]]

Osco, wheres that damn post I said I was gonna put up in your face lol......

 

Come on join the club Osco... you have read the manual right?

 

Yep, I read the manual... I am just scared of losing the plot if I make a bigger cut...

 

Will my head explode?

 

It's like, last small cut, baaaaad headache for 2 days, hot face... inner vibrations in the legs, I have had far worse and just wondered if Ashton cuts will cause millions of bugs to run around under my skin, my eyes to melt and to start seeing stuff and generally not know what planet I am on...

 

Does that make sense?

 

Will I freak out???

 

Oscar:

 

Ashton cuts didn't kill me, they got me to where I am now, at the end of my taper. Did I "start seeing stuff?" Early and mid taper, absolutely. But I never had bugs under the skin. and yes, I had many a freak out. But I made it through each one and am in a much better place now.

[[os...]]

yes but thats easy enough to handle, just get a large can of Raid, one of those night time eye mask that you can refridgerate and a map, before you cut...thats what Id do...

 

 

:laugh:

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Im not sure what that is D21, but I had a Dr appt yesterday due to some "separated ribs" and I chatted with my Dr about my benzo taper and some problems I was haivng, so she ordered a test to check for diabetes? is that a blood glucose test??

I was telling her about the over the top excessive urination and she started asking question, like did I have excessive thirst..no, and did I experience a  rapid vision decrease.... yes...

I was hoping it was withdrawals (that sounds strange to say, eh?)

we'll see....

 

Benzy,

 

Based on my mother's experience a blood glucose test is given to check for pre-diabetes and Type 2 Diabetes. If they're testing for type 1, I believe they order a urine test also.

 

Who can say for sure until you get the results back but what you're describing could very well be withdrawal sxs. Do you know when they're supposed to getting back to you?

 

I'm still waiting for a biopsy test result which has been a long time coming. The fact that it's taking so long is actually reassuring to me. Still, while waiting for results, it sure does niggle in the back of the brain, eh?

 

 

 

koko

[[Be...]]

Im getting the test done tomorrow, I havent gotten it done yet, so I dunno how long it'll take for results, Ill ask tomorrow...thanks for asking and your info.

[[Al...]]

Benzy just a little FYI If you go to a CVS pharmacy (if they have those in your area) and tell them your diabetic and you join their diabetic club they will give you a free blood sugar testing monitor kit. its a good deal but only comes with a few testing strips and the strips are a bit pricey but not to bad,  that way you can test your own blood sugar level. might help you ease your mind of  your sugar levels, I got one !!

[[Be...]]

thanks dude

[[Al...]]

No problem its a good deal and will maybe help you be more aware of what your sugar levels are and help relieve any stress you may have about them. it helped me a lot because I was having a lot of blood sugar issues when i first began my taper.

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Nothing surprises me in benzo withdrawal, koko. You may have had a reaction to the magnesium. I think our bodies go into some kind of bizarro hyper-alert where they don't know friends from foes for a while.

 

I'm not sure that means magnesium is off-limits for you, however.

 

Early on in my taper, I ate some almonds and broke out in itchy hives. I thought, "Great, I have a nut allergy now."

 

Well, I love almonds, so the next night, I ate them again (yes, I was prepared to die for almonds, lol). Nothing happened. I haven't had a problem since.

 

I think my whacky benzo-withdrawal brain sent my body a false message ... like it was nodding off on the job, woke up confused, and pressed the wrong button or something...? It just so happened that I was eating nuts at the time. On a different day, it might have been milk or an aspirin or magnesium.

 

What happened when you took the magnesium? New symptoms? Or revving up of the usual ones?

 

Hi NoNo,

 

Well, both happened. But not until I made my next cut after having started the magnesium a week earlier. Could I be any more unclear than that? ha!

 

A couple/few days after I started taking the magnesium, I started getting adrenaline rushes mid-afternoon. Which was weird because I hadn't experienced that before. Usually they're mid-morning or not at all. I just thought it was another w/d sx especially because I've read a million times over that those rushes are common in withdrawal. So I just rode them out chalking them up to yet another 'thing' that I would have to learn to deal with.

 

Well, when I cut again the rushes started getting really bad. Very strong. My current sxs did ramp up. Not a huge amount but some. And then I started getting insomnia. Not horrible insomnia but my sleep was really disturbed and I could only get about 3 or 4 hours in a night. I chalked that up to new w/d sxs too.

 

But when I stopped taking the magnesium the rushes went away and my sleep improved (moderately) at night.

 

So ....... uh ...... duh? I have absolutely NO idea if it was the magnesium, the cut, both, or neither. Needless to say, though, I'm scared to death to try taking it again.

 

 

koko

 

ps - I'm glad the almonds didn't kill you. lol

[[Be...]]

No problem its a good deal and will maybe help you be more aware of what your sugar levels are and help relieve any stress you may have about them. it helped me a lot because I was having a lot of blood sugar issues when i first began my taper.

 

you ever had any prostate issues, or withdrawals that caused a problem in that area?

[[Al...]]

you ever had any prostate issues, or withdrawals that caused a problem in that area?

 

Not so far man and I sure hope I don't !! have you

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Koko, what were your symptoms?

personally, I have "felt"  "something".. occassionally after taking it, or a epsom salt bath, the bath seems to effect me more than 2000 mgs orally, for some reason, I think cause the water gets in my mouth and leaves that "metallic taste, which reminds me of the beginning of a anxiety attack, that also happens with a anxiety attack with me. so my awfulizing brain kicks in and I have had a bit of trouble like that....

it has given me kinda of a "saturated wet floaty feeling" (orally) at times,,,, it is a relaxant to your muscles and such, I guess thats just the "feeling" it can produce, which would be normal, but in withdrawals and being sensitive to how we feel, it can mess with your head, and set of anxiety I think, thats happened before, but I was able to put 2 and 2 together and ride it out just fine... I also stop taking it occassionally if Im in a place where that would happen, then pick it back up later when I feel more stable in my taper.....

 

maybe this is what you experienced...

 

I've been thinking about trying Epsom salt baths but they kind of freak me out because my (evil) step-father used to force me to drink warm salt water every time that I had a sore throat. So, now, I have a kind of phobia about warm saltwater or warm salty drinks of any kind. I'm perfectly fine gagging on ocean water but anything salty and warm? BARF! I know, I know ... weird, huh?

 

Benzy, why did you start benzos in the first place? Were you having panic attacks?

 

 

koko

[[Be...]]

I have/had pre-exisiting heart arrhythmias that went totally beserk, my new normal rythmn was bigeminy for a full year, used them to help with the anxiety and stress that caused, along with the heart meds...

[[Al...]]

I've been thinking about trying Epsom salt baths but they kind of freak me out because my (evil) step-father used to force me to drink warm salt water every time that I had a sore throat. So, now, I have a kind of phobia about warm saltwater or warm salty drinks of any kind. I'm perfectly fine gagging on ocean water but anything salty and warm? BARF! I know, I know ... weird, huh?

 

KOKO I wanted to tell you the Epsom salts baths do help a lot. I do them and I know baths are not cool for a guy but they do help a lot with the body aches and pains and relax you to ! i'm also very curious about the magnesium reving you up !! I take magnesium and it seems to help me a lot but right now with the new wave of bad symptoms i'm wondering if it might be the magnesium !!  What kind of magnesium do you take and what dosage ??

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No disrespect taken. I just wanted to point out that a lot of people seem to assume that those who aren't following the Ashton cut and hold tapering method are automatically doing a much slower taper, when in fact they aren't. Ironically sometimes it can actually be a faster taper than a cut and hold taper because you aren't waiting for s/x to diminish as much. I know for me my initial 1mg cut was a lot quicker than if I had done it as a cut and hold taper.

 

The term "micro-taper" is actually one that was coined by a different benzo website and isn't a term that is condoned on BB, although it is often used, because the definition is too ambiguous and misleading. Daily taper says what it is on the tin, so there can’t be any confusion over what it actually means.

 

However, as koko said, the only thing that is really important is that we all reach that ultimate goal of zero. How we get there is really unimportant, as long as the process was manageable.

 

Hi Diaz-Pam,

 

I'm a bit confused what you mean by this. Do you mean faster by percentage?

 

I'm not really sure where the 5-10% cut per 1 to 2 weeks came from. Here and there throughout a long Ashton taper her suggested withdrawal schedules exceed 10%. Sometimes far exceeding 10%. The best example of this is going from 10mg to 0mg:

 

1-2wks  --  10mgs 

1-2wks  --    9mgs  (10%)

1-2wks  --    8mgs  (11.1%)

1-2wks  --    7mgs  (12.5%)

1-2wks  --    6mgs  (14.3%)

1-2wks  --    5mgs  (16.6%)

1-2wks  --    4mgs  (20%)

1-2wks  --    3mgs  (25%)

1-2wks  --    2mgs  (33.3%)

1-2wks  --    1mgs  (50%)

1-2wks  --    0mgs  (100%)

 

So, that's quite a bit different than taking the same amount of time to drop from, say, 2mgs to 0mgs, right? I'm just trying to get my head around what it is that you're trying to point out.

 

In any case, personally, I don't focus on the percentages anymore. I gave that up a while ago when I realized that no matter what percentage I dropped (within reason, of course), I was still symptomatic regardless.

 

 

koko

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I might join the Ashton club soon.

 

The other method isn't working any longer... I'll never be free at this rate.

 

I might crawl for another year... not decided yet.

 

I NEED INPUT ON EXPERIENCES WITH ASHTON CUTS PEOPLE, PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEED BACK.

 

If you take a cut and say, you get a panic attack and bad shakes and stuff, when does that stuff settle?

 

Is it possible to get stable between these cuts?

 

What if a cut is a bad one?

 

Just wait it out?

 

Thanks y'all. 

 

Hi Oscar,

 

I can only answer these questions based on my own experience. So, here it is:

 

 

If you take a cut and say, you get a panic attack and bad shakes and stuff, when does that stuff settle?

 

For me:  Around the 4th or 5th day after I cut it settles down. It does not go away. It just settles down.

 

Is it possible to get stable between these cuts?

 

For me:  No. Not for me. I haven't been able to stabilize since I was on 25mgs. That was the last time I ever felt truly stabilized.

 

What if a cut is a bad one?

 

For me:  Then it's a bad one and I kick and scream and come crying to my buddies here on this forum.

 

Just wait it out?

 

For me:  Absolutely. But I try not to wait it out by holding too long. Holding too long, for me, is counterproductive.

 

 

 

I hope you find your way, Oscar. I really do.

 

If you ever do decide to try finishing your taper the ashton way we'll be here to help. 

 

 

koko

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No problem its a good deal and will maybe help you be more aware of what your sugar levels are and help relieve any stress you may have about them. it helped me a lot because I was having a lot of blood sugar issues when i first began my taper.

 

AFIM,    <---- mind if I shorten your name to that?

 

How do you know when you're having blood sugar issues? And how can you tell the difference between w/d's and blood sugar problems? Is it like everything else having to do with w/d in that you just don't know unless you go to a doctor?

 

These guessing games about our health are really getting old. For me, at least. I'm so tired of always wondering. But, well, as they say: The show must go on!

 

 

koko

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I have/had pre-exisiting heart arrhythmias that went totally beserk, my new normal rythmn was bigeminy for a full year, used them to help with the anxiety and stress that caused, along with the heart meds...

 

Egads. That sounds awful.

 

I'm so sorry to be so blunt but I don't know how else to ask this question: What happened in the meantime that has made you want to stop the benzos?

 

Please tell me if I'm getting too personal, okay? I won't take offense. Promise.

 

 

koko

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No problem its a good deal and will maybe help you be more aware of what your sugar levels are and help relieve any stress you may have about them. it helped me a lot because I was having a lot of blood sugar issues when i first began my taper.

 

Hi Almostfree

What kind of sugar issues were you having when you began your taper? I would like to know my fasting blood glucose test level is elevated (not diabetic but can be considered pre diabetic). I am wondering if this is from lovely Benzos that we all love so much.lol

D21

[[Be...]]

youd be hard pressed to offend me, unless someone just tries too..

 

my heart finally settled down and got back into a normal rythmn, the arrhythmias subsided. so I just dont need it anymore..it took about a full year on the meds to do it though, so i surely was dependent...

 

the main reason I did the Ashton taper tho was to hopefully get off the drug without agitating my system to the point that the problem started back up, so far so good....it woulda all been for nothing if I tapered the quick way, since heart palps and such are a common withdrawal sxs, that would had probably got me all messed up again....

 

In the meantime, I FINALLY learned to devvelop my coping skills and such, because of the taper/withdrawals... I already had them to use for anxiety/panic/depression/etc.... but I went through a 4 year period of high stress that set my heart off.. because though I had the skillz, I never developed them or used them, I thought just knowing about them was enough 

 

Im gonna rest a few months after I get off, and try to taper off the heart meds as well...

I would love to be drug free again, but I dunno if Ill be able to do that or not..

the heart meds make me very fatigued and tired all the time, it sucks..

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KOKO I wanted to tell you the Epsom salts baths do help a lot. I do them and I know baths are not cool for a guy but they do help a lot with the body aches and pains and relax you to ! i'm also very curious about the magnesium reving you up !! I take magnesium and it seems to help me a lot but right now with the new wave of bad symptoms i'm wondering if it might be the magnesium !!  What kind of magnesium do you take and what dosage ??

 

Remember, I am not sure that it was the magnesium. It's so hard to be sure about anything during w/d's. It frustrates me to no end but that's just how it is.

 

This is the magnesium I was taking:

 

http://www.vitacost.com/doctors-best-high-absorption-100-chelated-magnesium-240-tablets-1

 

It's good magnesium. There's nothing wrong with it at all. And, like I wrote, it really might have been just a coincidence. But I won't really ever know. I'm pretty sure I'll try it again someday. Just not now while I'm still so fearful of it.

 

I was taking 200mgs mid-morning and 200mgs after dinner around 8pm for about a week and a half. I think there is a lot of info about magnesium on this forum if you do a search on it. For most people it is a godsend. For me that's still yet to be fully determined.

 

 

koko

[[Be...]]

I can "feel" my magnesium every now and then... and if ya dont know what it is, it can set off anxiety/withdrawals,, though I dont think the magnesium itself causes the proble,, if you get what Im saying.. it does cause a feeling sometimes,, but its harmless,,,, until your "benzo brain" takes over and you get scared and the anxiety takes off and such,,, thats what I think happens...

 

Ive taken up to 2000mgs a day,,,, you do need to gradually instate it though,, start with a really low dose and increase it every 2 weeks or so...they say increase it until it starts to bother your "stomach" (thats a good way to put it),, if it does, back down a dose..