Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[wa...]]

I agree with the seasoned veterans of Z drug withdrawal.  And when I first came here years ago, I read and re-read anything that would get me through this.  I read a lot of success stories, too.  It was my lifeline.

 

I encourage newcomers to just trust that you will feel better eventually.  My terror was the belief that I was different, that I felt differently than the others on here and I would never really get better.  That is simply not true.  It just is a drag at first.  Keep going. 

 

I think I've written many times of how I would pace my house in my bathrobe praying for the symptoms to lift.  At first my little night dose would get rid of these space-out - nausea symptoms --for them only to return in the morning.  So when I paced -- my mantra was: "This is only withdrawal, this is only withdrawal".

 

I might have symptoms now that may have something to do with w/d but I can live with them.  And they're fleeting or I am experiencing them due to some other ailment or other that cycles through me. 

[[le...]]

Thanks for all the comments, I only ever took about 2mg of zopiclone now down to about 1 mg. Going back to see another doctor next month see if I can get more lower dose zops as 7.5mg so tiny difficult to taper. I did go C/T in November on doctors advice for few weeks but started again as awful symptoms. Seems lot worse this time round but think you can get thing called kettling? Researched the OCD symptoms been having, bit more reassured as says should subside once I stop. It's knowing how long to stay on tapering, some seem to recommend swift withdrawal from Z drugs, I'm on very little dose but as been on it 12 years the withdrawal is just as bad, very scared of making the final jump. I'll carry on staying off the chamomile & passion flower as does seem evidence they can hinder withdrawal as logical as seem to have same effect as sleeping pills. Only been taking them every night last 3 years after husband had heart attack & cardiac arrest but sadly only small dose still gets you addicted. Prior to that just took them about 3 or 4 nights a week.

[[2f...]]

I want to take from night dose and take some daytime, to try to get less depression/anxeity. Why should you feel bad and stress the nervous system that just want to get a s other w/d?  Can't find anything about in the forum.

 

I said it before, as did many others on this forum, and I'll say it again that Zopiclone is not a good candidate for long-term taper due to its short-half life.  The daily interdose withdrawals it produces once tolerance has been reached are way harder on the body than a fast taper or quitting the drug altogether would be.  What you are experiencing during the day are interdose withdrawals.  They can be alleviated by taking an additional or partial dose during the day, but that kinda runs counterintuitive to the concept of taper, doesn't it?  You're proposing to cut your nightly dose and take part of it during the day.  I can't endorse that, no one can, except your doctor.  How you're going to withdraw from this drug is your personal choice, and no one can make that decision for you.  I do understand your frustration because you are suffering, I've been there.

 

As far as being unable to find anything on this forum regarding your issue, I beg to differ.  This forum is laden with useful and invaluable information, and many lives have been changed for the better because of it, myself included.  But one has to utilize the forum and look for the information, it's that simple.  Hope you feel better soon.

Thank you. Yes here is a lot of information and its very good. I ment about splitting the dose. And about that I did NOT mean take more of it just  divide the dose I taper.

Also its hard to understand it correct in english. Guess I misunderstand some...

I dont understand why "the whole concept of taper is" distroyed" by splitting? You dont increase. I dont understand why there are so many different oppinions on it. Some say its not  good for a slow taper, some that it is.

The important thing must be to go down in taper not when you take it??

[[wa...]]

Seems lot worse this time round but think you can get thing called kettling?

 

Yes - "kindling"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative–hypnotic_withdrawal).  Generally, with z drugs -- just don't cold turkey to get off of them. 

[[wa...]]

 

Yes - the important thing is that you go down in your dose.  If splitting it helps lessen the symptoms as you go down -- thats OK.  It probably doesn't matter.  I took mine only at night.  These drugs are evil no matter what you do and just keep going down in your dose at a rate that works for you.  It is very uncomfortable but you'll get there, 2forone

[[le...]]

Need bit of advice as per previous post trying to wean off zopiclone. Several people seem to advise against long withdrawa on Z drugsl, getting OCD type symptoms which apparently don't improve until you get off the drugs. This time round been 9 weeks and seem keep getting quite acute symptoms and I think possibly interdose withdrawal? Wondering if would be best to aim to stop them in next 2-3 weeks as not helping with sleep at all? Doesn't help as got mixture of 7.5 and 3.75 tablets so some days taking uneven doses having to manage with what tablets I've got and cutting them up. . Currently taking equivilant of just under 9mg per week so very small. Just beginning to think I'm not ever going to really start improving until I actually stop taking them and let my body heal. Any thoughts welcome. I've only ever taken 1/4 of 7.5 tablet per night and only taken them every night last 3 years. Seem to be worse on the days I take slightly higher dose?

[[al...]]

Need bit of advice as per previous post trying to wean off zopiclone. Several people seem to advise against long withdrawa on Z drugsl, getting OCD type symptoms which apparently don't improve until you get off the drugs. This time round been 9 weeks and seem keep getting quite acute symptoms and I think possibly interdose withdrawal? Wondering if would be best to aim to stop them in next 2-3 weeks as not helping with sleep at all? Doesn't help as got mixture of 7.5 and 3.75 tablets so some days taking uneven doses having to manage with what tablets I've got and cutting them up. . Currently taking equivilant of just under 9mg per week so very small. Just beginning to think I'm not ever going to really start improving until I actually stop taking them and let my body heal. Any thoughts welcome. I've only ever taken 1/4 of 7.5 tablet per night and only taken them every night last 3 years. Seem to be worse on the days I take slightly higher dose?

 

I can only speak from my personal experience, but my acute withdrawal phase after I completely stopped taking Ambien was somewhat easier than the interdose withdrawal phase while I was still taking the drug. The insomnia was worse because I was at least getting a couple hours of sleep from the Ambien, but that door was slowly closing anyway. My anxiety level was higher while I was still on the drug.

[[le...]]

Thanks that"s really helpful. Anxiety is through roof some days, the tablets barely give me hour or so sleep before I wake up, so think will give it a try in week or so. Expecting insomnia to get worse once I'm off, but if anxiety lessened a bit could cope a bit better.

[[al...]]

Thanks that"s really helpful. Anxiety is through roof some days, the tablets barely give me hour or so sleep before I wake up, so think will give it a try in week or so. Expecting insomnia to get worse once I'm off, but if anxiety lessened a bit could cope a bit better.

 

Prolonged lack of sleep can cause anxiety on its own, but over time you can learn to calm yourself down a bit since you know what is causing it. I kept myself distracted as best as I could but every once in awhile I would get a wave of fatigue that was followed by heightened anxiety. It will go away as sleep starts to return and you start to better adapt to your situation.

[[gi...]]

My acute withdrawal phase after I completely stopped taking Ambien was somewhat easier than the interdose withdrawal phase while I was still taking the drug.

 

That's exactly what happened to me on Ambien.  The interdose withdrawals while I was on it were a lot more brutal on me than the acute phase that followed after I stopped taking it altogether.

[[Ba...]]

You were just on ambien, not a benzo?  You are saying you felt worse on it, when you were not sleeping, then off it?

[[2f...]]

 

Yes - the important thing is that you go down in your dose.  If splitting it helps lessen the symptoms as you go down -- thats OK.  It probably doesn't matter.  I took mine only at night.  These drugs are evil no matter what you do and just keep going down in your dose at a rate that works for you.  It is very uncomfortable but you'll get there, 2forone

Thanks WB. Im down to about 10 mg (wating for a scale). I did try 1 mg daytime it helped. Havnt figured out how to do this best, but I guess I will.

[[Sl...]]

I think those of us who have already done a previous taper or C/T have extra apprehension because we KNOW what's in store.

 

This has been a reassuring article for me:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30295409

 

I'm down to 5 mg from 10 in mid-December. I've taken it nightly for years, tapering down in summers and going back up in winters. It's a hellish ride, and I'm ready to stop it. I know that it no longer helps my sleep much, but quitting Ativan last month left me weak. I wish I  could have just hopped off Ambien, but I try to tell myself that at least I'm taking significantly less than before.

 

Listen to your body, and do what feels right for you!

I just read the article.....twice ....couldn't understand if it actually had a taper plan suggested??

[[Fi...]]

Hi, All,

 

Been off Ambien now for about four days. I can offer my experience with tapering, but I was also in the middle of CT withdrawals from short-term use of Ativan...

 

I went from 10 to 5 mg Ambien all at once. I was so sick from Ativan WD, that I didn't really notice. I did 5 mg for a month. Next month, I went to 4 mg and then sometimes 2.5 mg. I kept waking up with panic, and as I went down, the panic decreased. I started sleeping less and less, so I decided to keep trudging forward to 1.25 for a few weeks. Sleep was neither better nor worse, so I just got off.

 

I've had stomach cramps and bad sleep but anxiety is better. Last night, I had about 6 hours sleep even though it was from 10 to 4 a.m.

 

If I could do it over, I'd have tapered more quickly. It seems like the long taper of Ambien only draws out the misery.

 

This is only my experience, but if it can help anyone then I wanted to share.

 

Hang in there. We were sleeping when we came into this world. We'll be sleeping again.

[[or...]]

Last night, I had about 6 hours sleep even though it was from 10 to 4 a.m.

 

Good for you, Fish! Soon your Ambien misadventure will be just a bad memory. Ugh. what a rotten drug it is!

 

Katz

[[wa...]]

Last night, I had about 6 hours sleep even though it was from 10 to 4 a.m.

 

Good for you, Fish! Soon your Ambien misadventure will be just a bad memory. Ugh. what a rotten drug it is!

 

Katz

 

It is so true.  It is hard to know what is the best way to get off of these drugs.  All we, (who are off of them), can do is hold the latern up -- up the path a bit -- to show the way out and that it gets better down the path. Somewhere between cold turkey and long holds is the way out for most.

 

I am astonished that benzo/sleep drugs withdrawal is not the biggest public health issue of our time after opioids.  Shocking.

 

[[Fi...]]

You guys who have done the long tapers, my respect to you. These past few months have been so miserable, and I know I'm not done, but it takes a profound strength to get through it. And get through it, we do.

 

I am astonished that benzo/sleep drugs withdrawal is not the biggest public health issue of our time after opioids.  Shocking. --- Yes, it's making Big Pharma lots of money. They're such subtle drugs. I rationalized that I exercise, eat right, don't drink or smoke, and the doctor prescribed them... Now, I feel like the biggest fool sometimes. Although, I know we just trusted those who should have known better.

 

My doctor gave me a note to be off for a few weeks, which is all I think I'll need to get my sleep back. Just not having the pressure of being in front of classrooms of freshmen takes a tremendous load off! 

[[or...]]

My doctor gave me a note to be off for a few weeks, which is all I think I'll need to get my sleep back. Just not having the pressure of being in front of classrooms of freshmen takes a tremendous load off!

 

Good for your doc, Fish. Yes, the time off should let you get straightened around in your sleep. I know when I chucked my Ambien I did NOT SLEEP. Period. I waited and waited as some folks on here assured me I should do . . . nada. So I took matters into my own hands. Unisom and hydroxyzine helped, and then I weaned off them also. No point in substituting one addiction for another. 

 

You're going down the right path, I think, Fish. Those freshmen better be prepared for you on your return, Grr!

 

Let us know how things go?

 

 

Katz

[[Ba...]]

Well got desperate to sleep as have been majorly sick with URIs xannot throw off with no sleep.  Took extra ambien and slept and feel sort of human?

So is the ambien really hooked on; the val am on doe not seem to do much.

 

What do I do?  How do I get off this??

 

Hopefully will talk to dr tomorrow but he will ask what do I want 9he will be agreeable likely).   

 

I have noticed from experiene with another dr. if they feel they can't help you they just dump you.

[[or...]]

What do I do?  How do I get off this??

 

Do you mean off the Ambien?

 

Barbra, I am having one heck of a time figuring out what you are on and what you aren't. What are "bits" of Lyrica?

 

If I were you, I would make a better list of what I was on, and amounts, and taper the shortest-acting drugs first. One at a time. I wouldn't even bother with the Ambien (yeah I know it's short-acting) as you need it for sleep, until I was off everything else. FYI that's what I did and it worked out.

 

Of course things may not work that way for you. Just some thoughts.

 

I think you would have better luck with your doctor(s) if you can present them with some kind of plan. 

 

Katz

 

 

 

 

[[Ba...]]

Yes, how get off the ambien?

 

You are saying stay on it the longest?

 

No longer on Lyrica bits I need to change that.  2 meds right now:  valium and ambien.    Wish had stayed on K, tho... valium is not my friend.

[[Ba...]]

There is no room left in profile sig to get into more details.

[[or...]]

So that's not so bad, Barbara. Only Ambien and Valium.

 

If it were me I would get off the valium, leave the Ambien alone and DO NOT UPDOSE. Just consider it another drug you have to get off, after valium. Stop fooling with the Ambien. It is a horrible, miserable drug and by going up you are making things worse for yourself. Honestly? From 5 mgs down, it was as bad a  taper for me as Valium. I felt great when I finally chucked it.

 

If Ambien does not help you sleep there are many other sleep aids. I probably tried all of them, then tapered them also. I know there are several insomnia threads here. Just try something else. Unisom puts you out like a light. Ditto hydroxyzine. Indica marijuana lets you slide into sleep. As does tryptophan. Camomille tea is a great relaxer. Yeah, nothing works as well as Ambien, but it is the drug from hell in my opinion.

 

I hesitate to say this as you will probably get angry, but if you have "lifelong sleep problems", have you tried to address these without drugs? Have you had a sleep study done? It might be something physiological. Or . . . you might try seeing a talk therapist. Especially if you have, as you say, PTSD. Some talk therapists are excellent. I know mine is.

 

You can do this. However, you have to really, really want to. It's up to you.

 

As for the profile sig, imo just rewrite it. Leaving in the "bits of Lyrica" e.g. just confuses things.

 

Katz

[[Ba...]]

Uh, there is no sleep aid I have not tried.  This has been decades after all and i went to sleep lab when Dr. Dement was there at Stanford.

 

>>Unisom puts you out like a light. Ditto hydroxyzine. Indica marijuana lets you slide into sleep. As does tryptophan. Camomille tea is a great relaxer. Yeah, nothing works as well as Ambien, but it is the drug from hell in my opinion.<<

 

I can only take half a unisom and sometimes it works.  Hydrox cannot tolerate.  Indica have tried but maybe not found the right one.. wish I knew more.

 

Tryptophan did nothing, nor camomile tea.

My dr said I was the worst sleep case he ever saw.

 

 

I hesitate to say this as you will probably get angry, but if you have "lifelong sleep problems", have you tried to address these without drugs? Have you had a sleep study done? It might be something physiological. Or . . . you might try seeing a talk therapist. Especially if you have, as you say, PTSD. Some talk therapists are excellent. I know mine is.<<

 

Have tried it all.  Right now not able to get out and do things so can't, not that it helped.

 

  ;/

[[or...]]

Okay.

 

Katz