Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[le...]]

Thank Katz & Oregan does help to come on this site as feel very alone at times. My doctor retired and new one refused to give me any more, was told could go on anti-depressants. I'm sure the OCD is caused by withdrawal didn't start until I started skipping doses and CBT did nothing, what they were suggesting made it worse. Hard when the only help you get is from sites like this, I had no idea skipping doses would make things worse. I'm on really low dose only 1/4 tablet , trying to cut by 10% every couple weeks see how I go. I will try stopping the passion flower see if that makes difference. Previously tried supplement with magnesium & B vitamins which definitely made anxiety lot worse. Some days feel really low, but reading post does seem as if you get bad periods then a "window when things slightly improve. When I first started get them were on repeat prescription but have now been re classified as controlled drugs. I agree should never have been left on them so long, feel as if they have ruined my life at the moment. Good to get support from sites like this anyway.

[[le...]]

Brain not working meant to say thanks Aloha & Katz!

[[or...]]

You're welcome leann . . . just go slow and be consistent and you'll get there. We all thought we'd never make it. Ugh. But we did.

 

Best

 

 

Katz

[[al...]]

You will make it Leann. It may not seem like it now, but you will get through this mess and have it all behind you some day. Depending upon how you choose to deal what you are going through, you might find that the experience can provide some positive changes.

[[le...]]

Thanks both of you does help to be able to drop into this forum. Was worried I permanently had OCD but seems to be a quite common symptom of withdrawal that eventually eases. It's the combination of physical & mental symptoms so hard, my sinus are really bad and get awful headaches some days. Not sure how I'll manage when get down to crushing them, did try it and they taste absolutely vile. Did wonder about getting small amount water in  glass and sprinkling powder on top then swallowing? So long I swish out glass guess that would work? I've probably made things worse by cutting out some days but least I'm doing it the right way now!

[[or...]]

leann, when I got down to tiny crumbs and piles of dust, I just wet one finger and licked the dusty crumbs off my finger. I had a little glass of juice ready to mask the vile taste. I think if you dropped the crumbs/dust in a glass of water, some would cling to the sides of the glass. Anyhow, that's what I did -- not very scientific, but it worked.

 

 

Katz

[[le...]]

Thanks, I have another question, my husband getting very impatient with me, thinks I should go on other meds to help with withdrawal. I think should leave it longer only in 1st week of proper taper, after cutting out days for a few months with resulting awful symptoms. Anxiety is pretty bad but I'm assuming can take several months to really improve, and my view is my brain needs time to recover. I think I am already in withdrawal and almost seems case of has to get worse before it gets better? Also some weeks worse than others? Anyone views of this gratefully received as doctor no help!!!

[[al...]]

Leann,

I find it interesting that your biggest complaint at this time is anxiety when most people are plagued with severe insomnia. I am sure that you sleep has not been great, but it sounds like that is taking second place to the anxiety. Both problems are typical of withdrawal and are related to the same thing going on in the brain; the inability to naturally relax after so much artificial relaxation.

 

There really is no quick fix to end a withdrawal. A common first reaction is to find another pill to pop, but that thinking is what caused our problems in the first place. I would not dispute the advise of a really good doctor who has a lot of experience with z-drug withdrawal, but if a lesser doctor or a layman were to suggest taking another drug, I would not give that advice a whole lot of weight.

[[le...]]

Sleep not great but was only getting 4 or 5 hours max on pills, will no doubt get worse as I taper off the pills have also tried stopping the passion flower which helped a bit with sleep, but yes anxiety is awful at the moment, has been going on since I started cutting out the pills and led to depression some days. Doctors here seem clueless about withdrawal, one I saw at our practice just wanted to stick me on anti-depressants.

My gut feeling is I need more time, the worst symptoms developed last couple months so pretty sure withdrawal has kicked in. Husband nearly died after heart attack 3 years ago and took nearly a year to recover, so think lot of suppressed feelings now surfacing that had previously been blocked by Zopiclone. Good to get opinion from someone who has been through withdrawal.

[[Fi...]]

Hello, Z-drug group,

 

I'm at 5 mg of Ambien after going from 10 mg every night for about 3 to four years to 5 mg last month, and then after about a month, I tried to go to 2.5. It was hellish, and I've backed off again to 5 mg.

 

My concern now (once I have some off-work time to do my next phase) is how do I break this thing up between 5 and 2.5? I can half it, fourth it, but the size becomes quite irregular. I have a pill cutter, and I tried to make the cuts even, but there has to be a better way. I don't want to go through the side effects that I've had from the Ativan wd (little to no taper) but I just don't know how to decrease properly. I'm reading as much as I can, and most of the literature is about switching from benzos to Valium specifically because of its long half-life, but I've yet to find a doctor to do that, so I'm stuck with tapering Ambien.

 

Any suggestions/experiences? I surely do appreciate having this forum!

 

 

[[wa...]]

Hi Fish

I recommend going to the beginning of this thread and reading as much as you can from Ambien users.  There is all kinds of ways to taper.  I used a pill cutter as much as possible and then a jeweler scale for exact weight of the little chunks - but I was dealing with Lunesta. Now that you know what is happening when you cut, you may want to hold until you feel better instead of going up/down.  That will mess with you.  Accepting insomnia helps.  That will go away eventually.  Sleeping on your own will return.  I thought it never would but it did.

[[or...]]

Fish and Ship, I went from 10 mgs of Ambien to 5 mgs without much trouble (stopped at 7.5 mgs on the way). At 5 mgs I starting having nasty w/ds. I cut the pills as best I could into fourths and tapered that way (12.% reduction) doing cut and hold. I didn't worry too much about the uneven size of my "dose" and in some cases it was crumbs I was taking. Strangely, the accuracy of the dose didn't seem to matter. I felt pretty crappy and figured a super-accurate dose would not make me feel much better (i.e. an exact 10% as opposed to a 12.5%).

 

So, that seemed to work for me and I am pretty sensitive to meds. Not saying it will work for you -- just giving you my experience. It was a nasty w/d, but having spent 3+ years on my valium taper, I didn't want to devote a similar amount of time to my Ambien taper. I'm done and am glad I tapered the way I did. I was able to work and carry on with my life. I'm just so glad it's done.

 

My best to you,

 

Katz

[[Fi...]]

Thank you both for the advice. My neck and shoulders feel like I've been neurologically damaged, but I have read about hypnic jerks, and that seems par for the course with wd. I've got a supportive husband. Although he's never been on any of this mess, he sees what it's done to my psyche. I've been reading more about cognitive behavioral therapy because, well, no pills. And I like what I read. What we think influences our feelings and actions. If I can be thoughtful and aware, my emotions will follow most times, and very likely my actions will reflect the positive outlook.

 

I've always suffered from anxiety, but now it's more health anxiety, so it's reassuring to read that we do get well. My stomach got well, and my ears are mostly well. Now my head and neck need to stabilize.

[[le...]]

Currently trying to wean off zopiclone, does anyone one know of alternative therapies that won't interfere with the GABA receptors? Was taking passion flower & chamomile tea but have stopped as some post advise they may make things worse. I occasionally take rescue remedy & nytol which is anti- histamine. Awful anxiety and pretty awful sleep, Last couple weeks had the odd day when just keep crying and feel can't go on anymore then seems to lift the next day. Do any other feel their whole life is taken up with measuring doses and researching symptoms, totally unsympathetic doctor so no help there!

[[or...]]

leann I can't see how camomille tea would make things worse. It's a pretty well-understood and well-tolerated sleep aid. Called "nature's benzo". Yeah, just because it's "natural" doesn't mean that it's safe, but I would like to see some references for this claim. I haven't heard that. However, if your experience is that it makes things worse for you, of course, drop it. That's really all we can be guided by -- our own experiences. It sure helps me, but whatever.

 

As well, a few drops of the indica mj tincture I make helps me sleep also.

 

It's well known that tapering off the z-drugs produces awful s/x and then insomnia when you're done. Oboy, yes. All I can say is that once you're off, you'll feel a lot better. My tiny duo of "sleep aids" lets me sleep like a baby. Maybe at some time in future I won't need anything, but I'm grateful for them right now.

 

Sorry you are feeling bad.

 

Katz

[[al...]]

Currently trying to wean off zopiclone, does anyone one know of alternative therapies that won't interfere with the GABA receptors? Was taking passion flower & chamomile tea but have stopped as some post advise they may make things worse. I occasionally take rescue remedy & nytol which is anti- histamine. Awful anxiety and pretty awful sleep, Last couple weeks had the odd day when just keep crying and feel can't go on anymore then seems to lift the next day. Do any other feel their whole life is taken up with measuring doses and researching symptoms, totally unsympathetic doctor so no help there!

 

Leann,

It has been my experience that there really is nothing that will help with sleep on nights when withdrawal insomnia is just too deeply rooted. I did however get some relief from taking melatonin and generic Benadryl on nights when sleep might have happened anyway. The combo seemed to offer deeper sleep. I now take L-Tryptophan, but once again it does not always work.

[[le...]]

There was a link I found on posted on this site, stating that chamomile is a GABA Receptor agonist and should be avoided if seeking to treat anxiety related disorders, have seen it mentioned elsewhere. Anxiety is big problem at the moment so will try cutting it out for week or so see if things improve. As symptoms seem to be racking up hoping it's a sign I'm in withdrawal and the drugs beginning to leave my system, as I'm decreasing the doses! I do find the anti histamine helps bit with sleep it's the anxiety nothing seem to help.

[[2f...]]

Currently trying to wean off zopiclone, does anyone one know of alternative therapies that won't interfere with the GABA receptors? Was taking passion flower & chamomile tea but have stopped as some post advise they may make things worse. I occasionally take rescue remedy & nytol which is anti- histamine. Awful anxiety and pretty awful sleep, Last couple weeks had the odd day when just keep crying and feel can't go on anymore then seems to lift the next day. Do any other feel their whole life is taken up with measuring doses and researching symptoms, totally unsympathetic doctor so no help there!

I feel like that too. I feel stuck in this. Im tapering Zopiclone. Feel trapped in this. Scared too.

[[gi...]]

Currently trying to wean off zopiclone, does anyone one know of alternative therapies that won't interfere with the GABA receptors? Was taking passion flower & chamomile tea but have stopped as some post advise they may make things worse. I occasionally take rescue remedy & nytol which is anti- histamine. Awful anxiety and pretty awful sleep, Last couple weeks had the odd day when just keep crying and feel can't go on anymore then seems to lift the next day. Do any other feel their whole life is taken up with measuring doses and researching symptoms, totally unsympathetic doctor so no help there!

I feel like that too. I feel stuck in this. Im tapering Zopiclone. Feel trapped in this. Scared too.

 

Hi 2forone and leann,

 

I would be prepared that insomnia and other withdrawal symptoms will be part of your lives for a while as you taper Zopiclone and for some time thereafter.  The insomnia is very uncomfortable, as are other symptoms, but once you accept that it's temporary, the withdrawal will be easier to bear.  I was on a z-drug for many years, and I do remember well all the pain I had to suffer when I got off of it.  The insomnia was brutal and other symptoms excruciating, but I endured it because there wasn't any other way.  But it's all temporary and it will pass before you know it.  I wouldn't necessarily try anything else for sleep right now, as chances are it won't work and will only add to your suffering.  You need not be afraid of feeling trapped or stuck in this, don't be scared, this is all just a temporary transition to your normal selves.  There isn't any other way out of this, we just have to go through this pain to withdraw.  Yes, it is very difficult to endure, but you will be half way there if you accept this process as temporary and regard it as recovery that it really is.  Hope both of you feel better soon.

[[2f...]]

Currently trying to wean off zopiclone, does anyone one know of alternative therapies that won't interfere with the GABA receptors? Was taking passion flower & chamomile tea but have stopped as some post advise they may make things worse. I occasionally take rescue remedy & nytol which is anti- histamine. Awful anxiety and pretty awful sleep, Last couple weeks had the odd day when just keep crying and feel can't go on anymore then seems to lift the next day. Do any other feel their whole life is taken up with measuring doses and researching symptoms, totally unsympathetic doctor so no help there!

I feel like that too. I feel stuck in this. Im tapering Zopiclone. Feel trapped in this. Scared too.

 

Hi 2forone and leann,

 

I would be prepared that insomnia and other withdrawal symptoms will be part of your lives for a while as you taper Zopiclone and for some time thereafter.  The insomnia is very uncomfortable, as are other symptoms, but once you accept that it's temporary, the withdrawal will be easier to bear.  I was on a z-drug for many years, and I do remember well all the pain I had to suffer when I got off of it.  The insomnia was brutal and other symptoms excruciating, but I endured it because there wasn't any other way.  But it's all temporary and it will pass before you know it.  I wouldn't necessarily try anything else for sleep right now, as chances are it won't work and will only add to your suffering.  You need not be afraid of feeling trapped or stuck in this, don't be scared, this is all just a temporary transition to your normal selves.  There isn't any other way out of this, we just have to go through this pain to withdraw.  Yes, it is very difficult to endure, but you will be half way there if you accept this process as temporary and regard it as recovery that it really is.  Hope both of you feel better soon.

But there are many different ways. That is also hard to know wich. I want to take from night dose and take some daytime, to try to get less depression/anxeity. Why should you feel bad and stress the nervous system that just want to get a s other w/d? C a nt find anything about in the forum.

[[Fi...]]

I think those of us who have already done a previous taper or C/T have extra apprehension because we KNOW what's in store.

 

This has been a reassuring article for me:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30295409

 

I'm down to 5 mg from 10 in mid-December. I've taken it nightly for years, tapering down in summers and going back up in winters. It's a hellish ride, and I'm ready to stop it. I know that it no longer helps my sleep much, but quitting Ativan last month left me weak. I wish I  could have just hopped off Ambien, but I try to tell myself that at least I'm taking significantly less than before.

 

Listen to your body, and do what feels right for you! 

[[or...]]

Thanks leann, I'll go look for this:

 

There was a link I found on posted on this site, stating that chamomile is a GABA Receptor agonist and should be avoided if seeking to treat anxiety related disorders, have seen it mentioned elsewhere.

 

Katz

[[or...]]

leann, I just found this on Healthline:

 

For years, chamomile tea has been used as a natural remedy to reduce inflammation, decrease anxiety and treat insomnia. In fact, chamomile is commonly regarded as a mild tranquilizer or sleep inducer. Its calming effects may be attributed to an antioxidant called apigenin, which is found in abundance in chamomile tea.

 

I think I'll stick with it.

 

Katz

[[gi...]]

I want to take from night dose and take some daytime, to try to get less depression/anxeity. Why should you feel bad and stress the nervous system that just want to get a s other w/d?  Can't find anything about in the forum.

 

I said it before, as did many others on this forum, and I'll say it again that Zopiclone is not a good candidate for long-term taper due to its short-half life.  The daily interdose withdrawals it produces once tolerance has been reached are way harder on the body than a fast taper or quitting the drug altogether would be.  What you are experiencing during the day are interdose withdrawals.  They can be alleviated by taking an additional or partial dose during the day, but that kinda runs counterintuitive to the concept of taper, doesn't it?  You're proposing to cut your nightly dose and take part of it during the day.  I can't endorse that, no one can, except your doctor.  How you're going to withdraw from this drug is your personal choice, and no one can make that decision for you.  I do understand your frustration because you are suffering, I've been there.

 

As far as being unable to find anything on this forum regarding your issue, I beg to differ.  This forum is laden with useful and invaluable information, and many lives have been changed for the better because of it, myself included.  But one has to utilize the forum and look for the information, it's that simple.  Hope you feel better soon.

[[or...]]

2forone, I sure agree with Ginger. Taking bits of your z-drug during the day is not helpful. You certainly are experiencing interdose withdrawals.

 

It sounds harsh, but if I were you I would just get on with things. Reduce from the nighttime dose (for heaven's sake, we all took it at nighttime). Be brave. You will feel crappy, but it will be over. And, at least for me, I did not have a couple of months as I did after my valium taper when I continued to feel bad.

 

There are plenty of things to help with insomnia. The forum has several insomnia threads.

 

Again . . . be brave. You'll get there.

 

Katz