Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Li...]]

Haa Zzers, I hope hope that you all have nice feast days, I am not feeling great, but it is what it is. I got a very nice Christmas present. My father made a nice book about my graduation project 20 years ago.

Now I watch skating, a typical Dutch sport. Huggggsss Jerry. Still a full lockdown here! 

[[La...]]

Agoura firstly, welcome to Team Z! I’m sorry that you are feeling so bad because of those pills. Benzos and Zdrugs are known to cause all sorts of terrible symptoms. This is especially true once you become tolerant and experiencing interdose withdrawal in which I think is your case. I agree with Pam that since you’re already tapering the flunitrazine you might want to continue to push through with your reduction. It can be quite difficult tapering more than one medication at a time because each drug has its own withdrawal symptoms. In my opinion, the Ambien ( zolpidem) although short acting can serve as something to help a bit while you finish the other taper.

As far as your sleep issues, that’s one of the main withdrawal symptoms. It is ideal to have a sleep routine and good sleep hygiene regardless of going through WD( withdrawal) or not. Even if it doesn’t work as well at first. It still may serve as beneficial to assist in relaxation to the point of near sleep. In this recovery, some people sometimes just can’t sleep well. It’s called rebound insomnia from coming off the medications. Humans are created to get a certain amount of sleep which is necessary for the entire body to repair, rejuvenate, rest and replenish. When this doesn’t happen it can wear people down fairly quickly especially if insomnia is occuring for consecutive days. In my experience, relaxation/meditation techniques were helpful. What I experienced is when I first started tapering the Ambien, my doctor suggested that I start CBT-I and meditation at the same time. It DID help me very much. I’m not contradicting Pam in any way…I’m sharing my personal experience with you. CBT-I may or may not help you. The same goes for magnesium. I will say that it is on the “ to avoid” list of Dr Ashton and other benzo wise experts. It is YOUR choice. So what I wanted personally was to implement natural approaches as I was tapering and even now at 18 months as I’m healing. I didn’t want to chance taking anything that may disrupt my very sensitive/ injured CNS or my healing. I stuck with a very strict sleep routine. It wasn’t long after doing it consistently that it worked for me. I still use it today and I will for the rest of my life. It took some tries of different things to get the right combinations that worked for me. I even use them when I’m in a rough wave. I agree with Pam about spending your money on CBT-I. I went on YouTube and did it myself for free. It’s not difficult at all. It’s a matter of figuring out by trial and error what works for you to relax yourself. But again, this is YOUR choice. Also I’d be glad to help you figure that out if you’d like. You won’t know unless you try it. Don’t be discouraged if it doesn’t work at first because it’s a process of training your brain to relax. This can be harder to do when someone is in WD especially acute phase.

Hope you feel better soon. 

[[La...]]

Haa Zzers, I hope hope that you all have nice feast days, I am not feeling great, but it is what it is. I got a very nice Christmas present. My father made a nice book about my graduation project 20 years ago.

Now I watch skating, a typical Dutch sport. Huggggsss Jerry. Still a full lockdown here! 

Hugs Jerry. I love watching figure skating too. Your Xmas gift sounds so nice. I know you’ll treasure it. My Xmas was ok. I had waves most of the day. I just pushed through as much as I could but most of it was spent in bed. Thanks for checking in. Take care.

[[Pa...]]

I’m not contradicting Pam in any way…I’m sharing my personal experience with you. CBT-I may or may not help you. The same goes for magnesium. I will say that it is on the “ to avoid” list of Dr Ashton and other benzo wise experts. It is YOUR choice. So what I wanted personally was to implement natural approaches as I was tapering and even now at 18 months as I’m healing. I didn’t want to chance taking anything that may disrupt my very sensitive/ injured CNS or my healing. I stuck with a very strict sleep routine. It wasn’t long after doing it consistently that it worked for me. I still use it today and I will for the rest of my life. It took some tries of different things to get the right combinations that worked for me. I even use them when I’m in a rough wave. I agree with Pam about spending your money on CBT-I. I went on YouTube and did it myself for free. It’s not difficult at all. It’s a matter of figuring out by trial and error what works for you to relax yourself. But again, this is YOUR choice. Also I’d be glad to help you figure that out if you’d like. You won’t know unless you try it. Don’t be discouraged if it doesn’t work at first because it’s a process of training your brain to relax. This can be harder to do when someone is in WD especially acute phase.

Hope you feel better soon. 

 

Thank you LadyDen, this is invaluable because I was only relaying what I'd read from another member, your personal experience is important, thank you for sharing. 

[[Ka...]]

Helen and Lady, thanks for your reply! Sorry you've got those darn waves ... so glad you're here! Hoping for freedom in 2022!

 

Agoura, glad you came aboard!! Cool you have a CBT-i therapist to work with, would love to see you post what you learn there. In my opinion get those skills going asap!! I mean, I never felt silly when LadyDen gave me suggestions to try and I was only cutting 0.50 off 10mg!!! I knew the ambien was making me sleep but it still didn't feel like it was, it felt like I was taking HUGE BRAVE steps to taper this med I'd been so dependent on for so long!!

 

Jerry, I always love seeing you check in with the good, the bad and the ugly ... from the Netherlands! Did I tell you I visited in 1979??!! Yup, to Amsterdam, borrowed a bicycle to ride around on, stayed in a hostel then on someone's boat in the canal! Great memories.

 

Others, here we are, it's a great thing. I wish I could sleep wonderfully all the time but i know that I am blessed with good nights so thankful for that. Then I get up and look at my happy lamp so I start my day with getting ready to sleep at night. I go to bed at 10 usually ...

 

Cheers,

Kachina

[[La...]]

Kachina that is awesome that you have a good sleep routine/hygiene. It does makes a big difference if you’re consistent.  I’m really happy for you that you are living a good life now with most of your symptoms gone because you got off the Ambien. So proud of you! Sounds like your sleep is also much improved. I was very happy to help you on your journey. And I’m still here for you and all my buddies here just like you all are here for me. Words can’t express how much I appreciate you all. I’m praying in the new upcoming year will be our end of this chapter of our lives. I can feel the healing in the air! If we continue to lift each other up, stay the course, stay positive and let time prove to be our best tool, we will heal nicely to live our best life. Believe that, my friends!

[[Ba...]]

I am not functional and so tired of it all.  I took less ambien but more melatonin and a unisom.  slept some... not sure... but crushed with fatigue. Yawning and yawning.  Not even thinking of going out for a tiny walk.

 

I think cbt i is free somewhere around here...  and think it is the getting up, looking at light, etc.  But if i am depressed, fatigued, I can't move.  That is a problem.

 

My worst symptons are insomnia/ akathesia/ driving phobia.  I have MOST of the symptoms on the list of symptoms.

 

So tired... I will say so long. 

BTW, how many people visit BB/day?  Just wondering. Thx and good luck everybun!

[[De...]]

I am so sorry Barbara that you are struggling so much.  When I was at your point in tapering I stopped taking the melatonin, benadryl or anything else.  I believe the combination was terrible for my brain and really confused it.  I then focused on only tapering the ambien, and it wasn't a cakewalk but I actually felt better as I tapered because I had been suffering from interdose withdrawals.  This might not apply to you, but thought I would share.

 

At my worst before I realized benzos were ruining my life, I was getting more and more depressed and crying all the time with obsessive thoughts about my situation.  I think taking all of those drugs to sleep were a poisonous combination.  I know you want to sleep more than anything.  I've been right where you are.  A turning point mentally was deciding that I wanted off everything, and that it didn't matter if I slept or not.  I decided to just lie there and take sleep as it came.  I rested as much as I could and if I didn't sleep I got up and rested on the couch.  It was the only way for me.

 

I hope you get better very soon my friend 

[[La...]]

Good morning Team Z. Hope all slept decently and ready to face today with having symptoms or not. Today is one step closer to healing for those who are off and one step closer to finishing a taper for those who are still doing so.

 

Barbara to answer your question, there’s a total of people on the forum on the home page left column. I’m not sure how many visit here per day but it’s easily at least a thousand. At varying times of the day the number of people are a little less or more. All from various countries. As far as your symptoms, I’m sorry that you’re having a rough time. Sounds like you’re having tolerance and interdose WD. Until you are tapered off that will occur. Great job on taking less Ambien. How many mgs was it? Both melatonin and unisom can cause fatigue. So that may be why you’re so tired. They do have a tendency to have a next day effect. I also when I was tapering and for a few months after being off had yawning spells. This is very common when tapering. IMO especially with Zdrug. I remember the first time I yawned during my taper I was so shocked because it dawned on me that I hadn’t done that in YEARS! And not able to nap in years. From what I’ve read it’s a good thing, a sign of healing starting. CBT-I is not just getting natural mornings sunlight. If you can’t go outside, you can open your curtains everyday to let your brain know it’s day. I have been bedridden for a long time. I opened my curtains in my bedroom nearly every morning unless I had a headache. CBTI is a great tool to get a bedtime routine established. It trains the brain to induce sleepiness and relaxation. After getting your personal routine, over time when you start it at night your brain is triggered to go to sleep. The same principle of seeing food makes some people hungry. This is especially true with seeing desserts 😂 As you heal, you’ll regain the basic things you used to do as symptoms fade away. Right now you’ve still tapering. I know it’s miserable right now but I say give yourself some credit for making it this far….so far. You can be proud. I know I’m proud of you! Being discouraged is also common and can be a symptom. I found it useful to look at discouragement as a WD symptom because it allowed me to treat it as such. So I confronted it with positives I’ve accomplished and turned my focus on something nicer. When we are feeling like roadkill it’s so hard to be positive. What helped me is to have a plan for when I’m feeling certain things. For example if I’m sad, my rule is to engage in something cute or funny. YouTube is an awesome way of doing that. I recall when I was in acute, I was feeling pretty low like you are. I was left alone….totally abandoned! The fears of what if’s tried to overtake me. Being bedridden this was easy to think about falling, starving, soiling myself, etc. I was terrified!!!! I began talking to God out loud asking him what to do. He reassured me that he’s got my back and my front  He told me within to create me a family so I did. I started watching Sanford and Son to distract from becoming fixated on my situation. This is my favorite old school sitcom. He reminded me of how much I loved it. Since I hadn’t seen it in so long. They were like watching for the first time.  Girl…I laughed every episode. You should have seen me talking to them through the screen.  I also watched game shows.  And used YouTube to travel the world…they have recorded or live feeds of zoos, aquariums, museums and landmarks. Also cooking from around the world. Sorry this was so long. I just wanted to give you some ideas and extend my support. I hope today will be better for you.  What Deanna said is so true! Big hugs 🤗

[[He...]]

I am so sorry Barbara that you are struggling so much.  When I was at your point in tapering I stopped taking the melatonin, benadryl or anything else.  I believe the combination was terrible for my brain and really confused it.  I then focused on only tapering the ambien, and it wasn't a cakewalk but I actually felt better as I tapered because I had been suffering from interdose withdrawals.  This might not apply to you, but thought I would share.

 

At my worst before I realized benzos were ruining my life, I was getting more and more depressed and crying all the time with obsessive thoughts about my situation.  I think taking all of those drugs to sleep were a poisonous combination.  I know you want to sleep more than anything.  I've been right where you are.  A turning point mentally was deciding that I wanted off everything, and that it didn't matter if I slept or not.  I decided to just lie there and take sleep as it came.  I rested as much as I could and if I didn't sleep I got up and rested on the couch.  It was the only way for me.

 

I hope you get better very soon my friend 

 

 

Deanna,

 

I was very similar to you. I was tapering off of Sonata (my last remaining Z Drug) and trying to sleep using melatonin or Hydroxyzine or Benadryl and even used these in my first couple of months off but like you, I started feeling it was really hard on my poor old confused brain. Once I stopped using everything, sleep eventually came. I can now sleep 6-7 hours a night with a couple of awakenings. I'm 6 1/2 months off now. I think finally dropping all the sleep aids got me to this point. 

[[De...]]

So glad to hear Helen that you are doing so much better.  Yes I think I have really learned that my poor old body doesn't like meds.  It will be hard to convince me to go on anything unless it is a life-threatening situation.  Good luck going forward - we will fully heal of that I am sure.

[[He...]]

Thanks Deanna.  I can sleep most nights. I still have a whole host of other symptoms that are driving me nuts though.  I'm hoping like the sleep, they'll eventually sort themselves out.  All the best to you.

[[La...]]

Good morning Team Z. It’s a couple of days away until New Year’s. I wanted to say thank you all for the loving support this past year. I hope that I’ve been just as supportive to you. I have a good feeling about this upcoming year. We are going to heal…this is our year! I don’t know about you but I’m excited to embark on my new healthy symptoms free life. We have been through so much yet we are still surviving and definitely stronger. I’ve already been dreaming about my new life. The list is long.  This recovery so far has shown me a lot about myself, not taking my health for granted and most of all be careful of what I put in my body regardless of a “ professional “ telling me it’s safe. So yeah I agree with Deanna and Helen that unless it’s necessary I won’t be taking anything. I also sleep about 6-7 hours on most nights. I really wish you all the best and a speedy recovery. May the New Year be filled with much happiness and face hurting from smiling so much.  We will get our lives back….most success stories say the other side of this is better than before. I can’t wait!

[[Be...]]

I talked to the guy who installed my furnace today and told him to never take Ambien or Xanax for sleep.  They can cause serious damage to a person.  I told him how I had a seizure at work in 2012 and had to quit my job because it damaged my brain.  I didn't take my Ambien or Xanax the night before and the interdose w/d caused me to have a seizure and now my brain is permanently damaged from it.  I only took the Ambien or Lunesta at night time for sleep and the next day I always felt terrible at work.  I kept feeling progressively worse over the months leading up my seizure while on the job.

[[He...]]

I talked to the guy who installed my furnace today and told him to never take Ambien or Xanax for sleep.  They can cause serious damage to a person.  I told him how I had a seizure at work in 2012 and had to quit my job because it damaged my brain.  I didn't take my Ambien or Xanax the night before and the interdose w/d caused me to have a seizure and now my brain is permanently damaged from it.  I only took the Ambien or Lunesta at night time for sleep and the next day I always felt terrible at work.  I kept feeling progressively worse over the months leading up my seizure while on the job.

 

Becks you did a good thing by giving that guy the warning about the meds. I always encourage people not to take them.

[[Ka...]]

HI Team-Z!!!

 

Wow, Becks, that is sooo crappy. I hate these poisons. I was luckier than you, ambien and Xanax tortured me in a much slower drawn out way that I had no idea about.

 

Barbara, keep going!!! I know you will feel better eventually. I'm so sorry these meds have taken your life away from you. We all know what that is like.

 

LadyDen and All, yes, the year is coming to an end!! WOW. I guess half my year was taper and the second half freedom. More and more I think I have some symptoms that are related to getting off. Leg pain and brain obsessions mainly. Lots of leg pain. And sometimes difficulty sleeping ha ha ha.

 

I am happy to say goodbye to this year. I AM SO GRATEFUL FOR ALL OF YOU FOR WALKING THIS JOURNEY WITH ME. This thread has kept me going for over a year. This is the best support group and yes it is painful, hard and sad seeing the suffering.

 

I don't know about anyone else but I am glad xmas is over ... family stress and dysfunction kicked in in my life, in me and around me, so glad to get back to a routine. Lots of emotions to ride. My life is so much better off those meds.

 

Hugs all around, keep reaching out, keep checking in, just let us know how you're doing, what your afraid of, what you're celebrating ... we'll just keep walking along together.

 

Cheers and hugs,

Kachina

[[Be...]]

This is a Z-drug support thread, so needed to express my concerns about my Ambien and Lunesta difficulties.  I used to take Ambien at bedtime and the next day the interdose w/d was so bad, I'd sit in the ladies room at work with my head in my hands and try to calm my frazzled nerves.  I warn everyone I meet who wants to hear it how dangerous these Z-drugs and benzo's are.

[[Ba...]]

OK, well believe zolpidem has turned on me.  Have been feeling just dreadful last few weeks, and thought maybe was some supplements am trying a little.

I have not been able to tell what the zolp. doing to me... but increasingly, I take my little half, or less than half, and feel worse.  I just took half of my less than half (about 2 mg).... and vibrating more.

 

So NOW what do I do?  This is very intense.  It's been 5 years of this crap (off the clonopin via valium, which was a mistake for me).  Dr. has no clue, altho he at least doesn't deny these meds can do this stuff.  Can lyrica mitigate this a bit?  Anybody?  Thx so much!

[[La...]]

Hey Team Z! Good to hear from everyone.

Kachina you’re very welcome for us giving you support. But we also thank you for yours. That’s why this forum is important. Give and receive. Sorry you’re still dealing with issues but you are a trooper. I’m sure more symptoms will become less with time. Keep your head up sweetheart. I’m also glad Xmas is over. I’m excited about the new year too.  Love you!

Barbara, what you’re experiencing is normal when tapering. In this recovery….expect symptoms. Accept symptoms. Distract symptoms. Coming off these pills, you just won’t feel good sometimes. Especially while tapering and acute phase ( once you’re off). You’re doing good to continue reducing. It’s normal at lower doses to make people feel like crap. This happened to me as well. They became paradoxical. I just kept going down until I was off. In my opinion, I wouldn’t start another pill if it was me. The reason I wouldn’t is for these reasons….

1. It’s another pill that will have to be tapered. And it will have side effects and it’s own withdrawals.

2. The brain is already having a hard time trying to heal. Why give it something else to process?

3. The habit of turning to a quick fix has proven to be a bad idea. Is it not what got me where I am now? Regardless of the fact that a trusted doctor told me to.

I’m so sorry that it’s rough. But it’s part of the process. Once you’re off, just like the rest of us, you’ll start to feel better. All in due time. Until then, distracting yourself is a good idea. It’s my every day coping skill. I’m not surprised that the doctor has no clue. Unfortunately they’re allowed to give these pills out like candy but are not aware of the dangers or long term effects. And in my opinion, there’s many of them that DO know but won’t admit it. Imagine the unprecedented numbers of lawsuits! And their less heavier pockets.

 

[[He...]]

Barbara Ave,

 

I'm SO sorry for your suffering. It truly is astonishing how bad we can feel from our time on these meds.  I

was basically "sick" from them for over a decade.  Like you, I tried to mitigate the symptoms with other meds. Sometimes they helped for sure. But long term none of them resolved the core reason for the symptoms which was that my brain was trying to "right the ship". I'm going to have to agree with Lady Den that distracting and the minimal amount of supplementing with other meds or vitamins is probably your best bet. Of course, we are all different. Again, I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. So many of us can relate. 

 

 

[[Be...]]

I took a tricyclic AD for many years and had NO side effects, didn't even taper it much to get off, and had NO withdrawal symptoms. 

[[De...]]

OK, well believe zolpidem has turned on me.  Have been feeling just dreadful last few weeks, and thought maybe was some supplements am trying a little.

I have not been able to tell what the zolp. doing to me... but increasingly, I take my little half, or less than half, and feel worse.  I just took half of my less than half (about 2 mg).... and vibrating more.

 

So NOW what do I do?  This is very intense.  It's been 5 years of this crap (off the clonopin via valium, which was a mistake for me).  Dr. has no clue, altho he at least doesn't deny these meds can do this stuff.  Can lyrica mitigate this a bit?  Anybody?  Thx so much!

 

Hey Barbara, It sucks so much when these drugs turn on you!  It's so hard to believe that something that worked so well for so long can do such an about-face, but that's exactly what they do.  The temptation is huge to try to take something else to quell the symptoms, but in my experience there was nothing that did a thing for me and most often made things worse.  My personal feelings on gabapentin or Lyrica are that they are acting on the very same receptors and hence only get in the way of healing.  I was on gabapentin and Ambien, and tapered gabapentin first, which is when the nightmare started and only continued until I was off the Ambien. 

 

So you are down to 2 mg Ambien and feel worse when you take it?  That is a pretty low dose.  I actually jumped from 2.5 mg but not I'm not saying that is what you should do.  I noticed that I actually felt better the lower I went, so I jumped and while that got rid of the interdose withdrawal stuff, it was just the beginning of the real healing to be done. 

 

So perhaps cut to 1.5 or 1.0 mg??? See how that goes....This drug has such a short half life.  It's gone completely in 15 hours, so each day is like a cold turkey in my opinion.  My heart goes out to you, but you will prevail and heal.  This is just the crappiest stage of it all 

[[Ba...]]

OK, well believe zolpidem has turned on me.  Have been feeling just dreadful last few weeks, and thought maybe was some supplements am trying a little.

I have not been able to tell what the zolp. doing to me... but increasingly, I take my little half, or less than half, and feel worse.  I just took half of my less than half (about 2 mg).... and vibrating more.

 

So NOW what do I do?  This is very intense.  It's been 5 years of this crap (off the clonopin via valium, which was a mistake for me).  Dr. has no clue, altho he at least doesn't deny these meds can do this stuff.  Can lyrica mitigate this a bit?  Anybody?  Thx so much!

 

Hey Barbara, It sucks so much when these drugs turn on you!  It's so hard to believe that something that worked so well for so long can do such an about-face, but that's exactly what they do.  The temptation is huge to try to take something else to quell the symptoms, but in my experience there was nothing that did a thing for me and most often made things worse.  My personal feelings on gabapentin or Lyrica are that they are acting on the very same receptors and hence only get in the way of healing.  I was on gabapentin and Ambien, and tapered gabapentin first, which is when the nightmare started and only continued until I was off the Ambien. 

 

So you are down to 2 mg Ambien and feel worse when you take it?  That is a pretty low dose.  I actually jumped from 2.5 mg but not I'm not saying that is what you should do.  I noticed that I actually felt better the lower I went, so I jumped and while that got rid of the interdose withdrawal stuff, it was just the beginning of the real healing to be done. 

 

So perhaps cut to 1.5 or 1.0 mg??? See how that goes....This drug has such a short half life.  It's gone completely in 15 hours, so each day is like a cold turkey in my opinion.  My heart goes out to you, but you will prevail and heal.  This is just the crappiest stage of it all 

[/quote>

 

 

Yeah, just started taking 2 mg.  As you know they are very tiny-- hard to cut and am so tired of the scale for clon and later valium (which sucked).  So it's gone in 15 hrs?  Well that is better than valium which makes you feel sick forever with its metabolites.    Thx

[[La...]]

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022! 🎊⭐️🎩🥂🍾🎊 TEAM Z, OUR YEAR OF COMPLETE HEALING IS HERE!

[[Li...]]

Ha team Z, I wish you all a light and healthy 2021. That all your tapers will be a big success and not too hard to achieve. 

Huggssss Jerry