A return to benzos

[[In...]]

Ivan,

 

I really think that Benzodetoxrecovery could help you. The last I read there you were trying to find your stablilizing dosage. I just feel you would be able to get off Valium and still get sleep.

 

But I am far from an expert here. I don't know that your system is any more compromised than the rest of us. We've all been and are on benzos. I'm glad you were able to join. Perhaps you could just give it a try.

 

Intend

[[ev...]]

Hi Intend

 

I joined this site but after a few posts heard nothing else. I'll have another look at it.

 

To everyone else I posted this on the genaral tapering thread but someone reading this may be able to help me.

 

 

Dear handb and anyone else with a relevant opinion

 

I started taking Benzos again on Aug 3. I have probably taken around 300mg (55 of which was in the day prior to my departure from hospital). This has led both the psychologist treating me and my GP to believe I should be able to get off these drugs in the form of valium quickly.

 

My reduction from 7.5mg to 6.5mg was based on this theory. However, if as I suspect, total sleeplessnesss continues for a series of nights we are going to be faced by a dilemma. Do I updose, tough it out which will become increasingly difficult with each night or do I get off this drug very quickly in order to give my body the chance to heal unimpeded by valium.

 

I have decided to talk to the doctor about this on Thursday if I don't sleep at all for the next two nights.

 

I appreciate only too well from going through all of this once before that this drug makes life miserable for many people in many ways even if one is not attempting to withdraw from it. I read that one member had to suddenly be withdrawn as the drug had become too toxic for her body to stand.

 

At present I am physically struggling with the presence of this drug in my body and of course this has mental ramifications too.

 

Does anyone know maybe from personal experience if going cold turkey from a situation like mine or completing an extremly quick taper would be OK?

 

On three previous occasions after extended periods on benzos I tried to stop. I just could not sleep and had to start again. But if I am not sleeping anyway, why would I want to continue poisoning myself?

 

I put this to the psychologist today who said I should hang on a few more days to see if I get sleeep and am able to stabilise. Now that I have got to 6.5 the only direction I wish to go is down not up but may find that I have too.

 

Thanks for putting up with my constant posting but I am in a very odd position here. One point Prof Ashton always makes is that the body only really starts healing when one is off the drugs.

 

One last point: during my sleep deprivation 3 and a half week episode I was restless and constantly jumping in and out of bed. Last night's insomnia was infinitely more peaceful. So maybe I could tolerate this for a while especially if i felt I had left benzodiazepines behind me. I also noticed that 1mg less resulted in far less burning inside the body during the night.

 

I look forward to any replies. And I am not expecting the wisdom of Solomon.

 

Ivan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Gl...]]

I think your time tapering should be relevant to how long you've been on them. When I was on benzos, I was on for a year and a couple of months, and then quit.  Then I started again for 6 weeks, and quit.  The 2nd time and final time I quit, I only tapered for 6 weeks because I had only been on them 6 weeks.  I think there's no point of doing a long taper if you've only been on for a little while but others might disagree.  I think you could get off fairly fast..I recommend toughing out the insomnia the best you can now that the other stuff is getting better..hope you feel better soon

[[JC...]]

Ivan,

 

One factor that you have to consider regarding if you go slow or fast is that if the underling problem (i.e. the beginning of the sleepless) has been resolved or not. You could quite now but if the problem is not resolved, it is meaningless.

 

I heard that there are others having the similar problem before, at minimum, 3 months to recover.

 

Are you the one supporting the family (I am and I am the only one could drive and I live in NA, and my family does not understand the problem neither), could you rest at home for 3+ months? Can you handle the on and off sleep like before you are taking the benzo?

 

If you could live with the serquol or others for few hours of sleep and you don't have a working pressure, I would stay out of the benzo.

 

Hope this help.

[[In...]]

Ivan,

 

Well you won't get the wisdom of Solomon from me, but here goes. First of all, Benzodetoxrecovery kind of requires some amount of "persistence" as the administrator is extremely busy so that's most likely why you did not hear back. I still feel, however, that she would really have the best answers for you.

 

It also sounds to me like perhaps with less burning issues and more restful sleep like maybe 6.5 mgs is your stabilizing dose. I would also say that I would hesitate to just stop cold on taking this because of w/d effects possibly hitting you hard.

 

But Glyng makes a lot of sense to me when he says that time on is relevant to the taper time. You've not been back on very long, so perhaps you could taper down over the next few weeks and just assess as you go.

 

There's no doubt that we all become highly mentally sensitive with this subject. I truly feel it is a true PTSD syndrome absolutely. I find myself continuously either concerned or really upset about my situation, so I think you have every reason in the world to feel worried, although I do hope you will feel better and figure out a plan. Having a concrete plan does take the worry out to some degree. I'm sure you already know this.

 

And I think everyone here really wants to help. You are not bothersome at all. That's what BB is for. Post away.

 

Intend

[[fi...]]

Yesterday I reduced my dosage from 7.5 to 6.5 with no sleep. I am doing this because this is not really a taper rather a continued imposition of valium onto an already damaged system. Sadly I got no sleep last night. I feel extremely daunted and am heading towards panic attacks again. I need to hold myself together to stay away from psychiatric institutions which would deny me any chance of getting better. Life is extremely hard at present. The last thing in life i was ever expecting was to have to taper from benzos twice. It is so horrendous and people just have no idea how hard it is.

 

Ivan

 

I do hope your sleep improves, Ivan.  I know what insomnia is like (as well as superficial sleep).

 

Wishing you well ...

[[ev...]]

Thank you for all of your responses. I want to get off this drug as quickly as possible as it is destroying my life. I feel constantly sick and have burning sensations throughout the night. Moreover, I have totallly lost my desire to go and meet people as I have nothing to say and feel really unwell when i am with them. I took my second dose of 6.5mg and got maybe 3 and half hours sleep (much the same as on 7.5mg) and then burnied for the rest of the night. My biody is no longer so totally restless that I have to jump up and down out of the bed all night as when I had my sleeping disorder but at least then when I did crash I got natural sleep. I have decided I must get off this drug because it is only poisoning me and at this stage seems to be doing me little good. Moreover, every day I add more I am making matters worse. After all I started this taper from about 200mg a psychiatrist prescribed for me.

 

I am going to make an appointment with the GP for tomorrow. He does know about the dangers of suddden withdawal so I afeeel I am in good hands.

 

Ivan

[[fi...]]

So you were actually on 200 mg. of Valium a day at one time?

 

 

[[ev...]]

Hi FG

 

No I wasn't. This time around the amximum I have taken on any day has beeen 1mg Ativan except for a couple of days when I got 2.5mg of this drug and one crazy day when I got 30mg of Valium. That's the most I have ever taken in a day and not for long.

 

Ivan

[[ev...]]

Hi

 

I have had yet another despicable night with burning sensations and stomach cramps. I am getting so litttle sleep I wonder what the point of taking valium for sleep is. If I were to go cold turkey from 6.5mg after taking only around 400mg from Aug3rd what would be the dangers? I am going to talk to a benzo wise GP this afternoon about the possibility if doing this. These drugs are making my life so miserable I just cannot bear them any longer.

 

Ivan

[[ev...]]

I have been talking to an Outreach visitor from the clinic which treated me this morning. He emphasised that it is unsurprising that I feel so low given the lack of sleep I am getting (zero. two and three hours) for the last three nights for example on 6.5 mg after cutting from 7.5 which I had been on for a couple of weeks). He also talked about the depressive effects of valium itself. I posted that I am considering a rapid reduction of Valium to zero. An an alternative, however, given the terrible time I have had for the last three months, would be to updose and go on something like Ativan say 1mg (equivalent to 10mg of Valium) which seems to have fewer hangover effects. I know all this does is postpone the agony but at least I could get on and enjoy life for a bit and return to the battle in a less depressed state.

 

As you can see from my posts I am at my wits' end. I never expepected to have to deal with benzos twice and this time I am travelling very badly.

 

I feel unwell all the time and very tired yet get little sleep.

 

Some of you may argue that I have cut too quickly; you may be right but the valium itself sucks to put it mildly.

 

I cancelled my appointment with my GP because I knew all the answers he was going to give to he questions I posed in my letter I was going to take to him.

 

I will post this on my insomnia thread so I can get as wide a viewing as possible.

 

Ivan

[[JC...]]

Hi.

 

I know it is hard. You need to do what you need to do.

 

Have you tried Remeron; at least it is an option if it works.

 

BTW, are you sure it is the V that causes you the problem or you don't have a sufficient dosage? For the sleep, the V is better as it has lot of "fat" (that is why it is solvable in milk) but not atvian. The reason I say that when you want to do tapering - in particular for MT - it is easier to do it via V with milk.

 

Anyway, stays well and all the best.

 

Regards

 

 

JC

[[fi...]]

Ivan,

 

I certainly hope things work out for you.  I have tried 7 previous times to come off of Klonopin, so I know the frustration.  I am determined that this 8th time will be a success.

 

At any rate, praying for you.

 

Sincerely,

 

fg

[[In...]]

Hi Ivan,

 

I'm posting on a duplicate thread I guess. I know you know that the longer you're on this stuff the more Your brain comes to depend on it, so time here is important.

 

And I realize that you're not interested in doing a major drawn out taper here nor should you be. I tend to think that a faster one can work, but you and your doc or psychologist will have to get that figured out soon.

 

This still leaves the sleep problem unresolved, and just about every person everywhere probably has had that problem somewhere along the line, plus no one enjoys it.

 

I find it hard to believe that medicine today can only provide benzos or Z drugs as a remedy for sleep troubles. But perhaps they haven't managed to address what seems like such an obviously far reaching problem, much like the common cold (which of course is caused by an ever adapting virus).

 

Well all I'm saying is that I do agree you need to get off V ASAP, and then address the sleep issue. Perhaps some of those recommended ADs would be helpful.

 

Intend

[[ev...]]

Hello Intend

 

I sat down last night and worked out that I had taken 455 appprox mg since Aug 3rd. I went to bed and slept for a while without the valium. When I woke it was after midnight so I did not take the tablets again. In total I had about 4 hours of sleep. So in the end I did not take aany valium last night. I now feel unwell in a different way to the state I feel every morning afte taking 6.5mg of valium. I have not got a clue what to do next. My desire has been ever since I stopped taking this drug in Aug 2010 to never touch iit again and  have aways felt continuning it now is damaging an already damaged system. I will struggle through today and see what happens tonight.

 

Ivan

[[ev...]]

Hi again

 

I feel as if every nerve ending is on fire now. I guess I am going through acute withdrawal. I don't like taking valium in the day but may have to. Last night I saw a way of ridding myself of this drug once and for all but now I am in serious trouble. HELP!!!!!!

[[In...]]

Well Ivan,

 

You must consult that Outreach person and psychologist you said had helped you before. You must seek their advice right away. It does sound like you may have begun dependency again.

 

Whomever it was before who helped you needs to help you again as soon as possible. I wouldn't wait another minute. I can't remember if you have an appt. already or not, but get to these folks very soon.

 

Intend

[Guest [St...]]

Ivan

 

Are you in contact with Reconnexion in Vic Australia?  I am sure they could help you out.  They have their support lines open until 5pm Aust EST.

 

http://www.reconnexion.org.au/

 

As you have stated you are in Vic Australia, they may be able to recommend immediate help.

 

Staff

 

 

[[In...]]

Ivan,

 

That's a great idea. Reconnexion is very focused on helping people. They have the latest info on benzos. Way more current than Ashton. Please contact them. Wonderful suggestion.

 

Intend

[[ev...]]

Hi

 

I have been working with a counsellor from reconnexion and have rung them today. I had committed to taking 6.5mg this week but I was suffering so much that when it seemed like I could sleep without the drug I thought this is my way out. It may still be. I suffering tingling throughout my body. It is very difficult to bear but the symptoms from taking the drug are so destructive as well. And remember I have been through this all before. The recommendation I received from the counsellor was to make my own mind up. As an organisation of course they encourage a taper which means I'll need to tough this out today only to return to valium tonight and continue to suffer the impact from them.

 

Ivan

[[In...]]

Ivan,

 

Then it sounds like you must either taper as they recommend or just drop the V if I'm reading you correctly. I think I would taper as quickly as you can take, but listen to your body as we all keep saying. I don't know the solution to the sleep problem. It may resolve once you get off V, especially if  it did before.

 

Sounds like, as usual there's no easy way out of these situations.

 

Intend

[[ev...]]

Hi Intend

 

Thank you so much for your reply. For a little while last night I saw the chance to avoid the continued horrors of a taper but my present situation is dire. I am aching all over my body and I am experiencing jerks especially in my legs. I assume that these are acute withdrawal symptoms. If I knew that they would only last for a day or so I would put up with them but I have no way of knowing. The valium at 6.5 is highly destructive. It gives me little sleep, followed by burning in the early hours and unpleaasntness throughout the day. But all of that is nothing compared to what I am enduring now. I regretfully have maded the decision to resume the taper and go as slowly as it takes even though up until now I have only taken 455mg this time around. I have to wait a few more hours to take the dug which I hope will give me some sleep and will at least lessen the fire I am experiencing now.

 

Keep up the support and thanks again

 

Ivan

[[JC...]]

Ivan,

 

Don't pressure yourself too much. Try to find a dosage or no dosage if  you desire that makes you feel comfortable most. Settle yourself first then worry about the tapering.

 

Regards

 

 

JC.

 

 

[[fi...]]

Hi Intend

 

Thank you so much for your reply. For a little while last night I saw the chance to avoid the continued horrors of a taper but my present situation is dire. I am aching all over my body and I am experiencing jerks especially in my legs. I assume that these are acute withdrawal symptoms. If I knew that they would only last for a day or so I would put up with them but I have no way of knowing. The valium at 6.5 is highly destructive. It gives me little sleep, followed by burning in the early hours and unpleaasntness throughout the day. But all of that is nothing compared to what I am enduring now. I regretfully have maded the decision to resume the taper and go as slowly as it takes even though up until now I have only taken 455mg this time around. I have to wait a few more hours to take the dug which I hope will give me some sleep and will at least lessen the fire I am experiencing now.

 

Keep up the support and thanks again

 

Ivan

 

Ivan, I had similar symptoms in my body when I tapered too fast from Klonopin.  Just wanted to relate my experience.

 

Sincerely,

 

fg

[[in...]]

 

Id Take 25mgs of Seroquel before a benzo. but thats just me or even 12.5mgs