Online Support....Can it make things worse?

[Guest [...]]

Thanks Intend! I will have a look at it. I just googled the newspaper. It's pouring rain here and my modem went off. This is my second attempt at answering you.

Might do a bit of research on old Peter and see how he stands in psychiatric circles. My brain could do with a bit of exercise.

 

Xana

[[In...]]

Xana,

 

Yes, that is the article. I'm not really an expert on this fellow at all. I've heard of him here and there and I read that he's controversial in many areas. I really have no reason to doubt that there is some truth in what he says.

 

But there just comes a point where one can only do so much in the circumstances one is in. I do want to be off Xanax, but I won't be reading this kind of stuff for motivation. I had started a lengthy taper 2 years ago before I even knew much about benzos and dependency issues. Ended up with some uncomfortable w/d which i didn't understand was connected to tapering. When I did get it finally, tried to cross to klonopin. Only drug my doc would give me. That was too hard and very painful and K gave me trouble. Now trying to go back to X and having K w/d.

 

Just a mess. Last thing I need is this stuff, accurate or not. Going to avoid it in the future. But yep. That's the one.

 

Intend

[[...]]

I was on Temazepam for 15 years, which is a long time.

 

I think the longer you are on the drugs, the deeper you are into medication spellbinding. ... and even deeper into an *accumulation* of side effects.

 

Dr. Peter Breggin’s new concept of medication spellbinding provides insights into why so many people take psychiatric drugs when the drugs are doing more harm than good.  Psychiatric drugs, and all other drugs that affect the mind, spellbind the individual by masking their adverse mental effects from the individual taking the drugs.  If the person experiences a mental side effect, such as anger or sadness, he or she is likely to attribute it to something other than drug, perhaps blaming it on a loved one or on their own “mental illness.”  Often people taking psychiatric drugs claim to feel better than ever when in reality their mental life and behavior is impaired.  In the extreme, medication spellbinding leads otherwise well-functioning and ethical individuals to commit criminal acts, violence or suicide.

 

The longer you are on the drugs, the more chance you have of experiencing more and more of the side effects. And the sad thing about that is, you don't chalk it up to the drug instead you forget that the symptom started after you began to take the drug.  For instance, I began to suffer high blood pressure only after being on the benzos for a number of years. THEN I started coughing after I was on Lisinopril for a number of years .. I guess because didn't get the High B/P shortly after beginning the benzo, then it wasn't counted as being caused by the benzo. But you know, it took two years OFF the benzo and now my B/P has returned to normal.

 

So I guess I've said all that to say Dr. Breggin's *medication spellbinding* definition is quite apropos to the situation we find ourselves in - believing the medication is working just fine and and new symptoms are from something else entirely.

 

The online support received simply makes us become aware of what is going on and that it is the meds - not us.

 

The medical community needs to face the fact that there are those like us, who just have one hell of a time getting off this drug.  (I think they know this already otherwise why tell us that we "need it like a diabetic needs insulin"? and why would they prescribe anti-seizure drugs to get us off?) When it becomes common knowledge that some will suffer horrific withdrawals, perhaps then we will see fewer victims, because then there will be fewer prescriptions.

 

I was more than thankful to know that it wasn't "just me" going through this, so in my case, it didn't make things worse, it got me through the worst of it.

[Guest [...]]

Intend:

 

I understand your pain. As you can see by my signature line, I've been battling the Xanax and then Valium for over 10 months now and I have had revolting side effects the whole time - seem worse down here at the bottom (2.2mg Valium). I guess you just get worn out by it all.

 

Just this morning I had fairly bad anxiety from the start of the day - for no apparent reason. Still hate it - as I was driving along I thought how nice it would be to just have 1/2 mg Xanax. Didn't, of course.I knew it was very addictive when I started taking it but was at my wit's end. I didn't want to take it but it was completely my own choice. I was told many times by health professionals that I would be on it forever. That wouldn't have worried me if it made me 'normal'. I guess I didn't really realise just how hard it would be to get off.

 

I sometimes think 'Why did I bother?' but my husband politely points out that I wasn't all that good ON it. My psychiatrist  cheers me on and gives me praise. He is sure I can do it even after the 16 1/2 yrs on it. Last Friday I asked him how many people he had actually seen get off long term benzo use and go on to live happily. He said hundreds over his decades of practice. He thinks that they have been happier and less anxious when they have come off them.

 

He is just your traditional psychiatrist who offers you antidepressants (and I refuse) and I know he performs ECT at the nearby Psychiatric Hospital. When he tells me things like this it encourages me to go on. He even offers prescriptions for more Valium Elixir, which he'd never heard of until I told him. We both thought it extreme way back. He probably still thinks it is but seems happy to go along with whatever I am doing as long as I am reducing.

 

I am going to ask his opinion about some of Breggin's scary claims. My doc is truthful and very knowledgeable about all things medical. I ask him all sorts of questions about ailments of many family members.

 

You can find extreme views on just about anything you care to look into. There's always another side. Finding the truth is the hardest part.

 

Have a peaceful weekend.

 

Xana

[[...]]

Intend:

 

I understand your pain. As you can see by my signature line, I've been battling the Xanax and then Valium for over 10 months now and I have had revolting side effects the whole time - seem worse down here at the bottom (2.2mg Valium). I guess you just get worn out by it all.

 

Just this morning I had fairly bad anxiety from the start of the day - for no apparent reason. Still hate it - as I was driving along I thought how nice it would be to just have 1/2 mg Xanax. Didn't, of course.I knew it was very addictive when I started taking it but was at my wit's end. I didn't want to take it but it was completely my own choice. I was told many times by health professionals that I would be on it forever. That wouldn't have worried me if it made me 'normal'. I guess I didn't really realise just how hard it would be to get off.

 

I sometimes think 'Why did I bother?' but my husband politely points out that I wasn't all that good ON it. My psychiatrist  cheers me on and gives me praise. He is sure I can do it even after the 16 1/2 yrs on it. Last Friday I asked him how many people he had actually seen get off long term benzo use and go on to live happily. He said hundreds over his decades of practice. He thinks that they have been happier and less anxious when they have come off them.

 

He is just your traditional psychiatrist who offers you antidepressants (and I refuse) and I know he performs ECT at the nearby Psychiatric Hospital. When he tells me things like this it encourages me to go on. He even offers prescriptions for more Valium Elixir, which he'd never heard of until I told him. We both thought it extreme way back. He probably still thinks it is but seems happy to go along with whatever I am doing as long as I am reducing.

 

I am going to ask his opinion about some of Breggin's scary claims. My doc is truthful and very knowledgeable about all things medical. I ask him all sorts of questions about ailments of many family members.

 

You can find extreme views on just about anything you care to look into. There's always another side. Finding the truth is the hardest part.

 

Have a peaceful weekend.

 

Xana

 

 

Finding the truth is the hardest part.

 

Yes, Xana,

 

Finding the truth IS the hardest part.

 

When I found out these were indeed addictive drugs, I was torked off over the top! I did not know they were tranks. I KNEW tranks were addictive. Everybody does.

 

Because of the nature of addiction, one will always need more to get the same effect. Or in the case of benzos, sometime the doc wants to throw anti-depressants and anti-psychoptics at you.

 

The truth is - anti-depressants and anti-psychotics don't *cure* the negative effects (side effects) of benzos. How can they, possibly?

 

The worst part and most difficult truth to find out about benzos is - because of the addiction aspect - the drugs don't work for long before you need more. You return to the same symptoms you had before you were ever on the drug. And all this amounts to is your original *anxiety* or *seizure disorder* rearing its ugly head, but now you have extra added ingredients coursing through your body and the *side effects* that come with it.

 

I don't think it's worth it.

 

 

 

[[KR...]]

You should be here if it helps. If it doesn't or if it makes things feel worse, you shouldn't be here.

 

For some, I know this type of support is a lifeline. For some, it's a place to research and often just the understanding they glean from that research is enough to help.

 

For some, spending more time here, being in contact with other people who are going through the same thing is what they need.

 

For some, being part of an online support group, doesn't help at all.

 

For some, being part of an online support ground causes more problems than it helps.

 

You need to decide which one of these people you are and go forward in your recovery in a way that suites you.

 

Hope.... Well said I must say.  And thanks for stopping in every now and then with your insight. I think its important for people to identify whats helping them and whats not. This thread had been a venting place for many both good and bad. Letting people have open dialog keeps things balanced and in place IMO. Some may differ. I don't.

 

This post of yours really points out EVERYTHING that a person needs to think about when coming online for help. "You need to decide which one of these people you are and go forward in your recovery in a way that suites you" is correct and to the point. You always have been a TO THE POINT type of gal. LOL. Kidding. Sometimes it just takes trial and error for people to recognize what is good for them and what is bad. But most of them come around and figure it out eventually. It starts to become quite evident.

 

Take Care, Rock

 

[[KR...]]

Quote.....

Hi Rock,

 

The reason why you did not end up on a ventilator in ICU after eating Doritos is because of the enzymatic action stimulated by the release of endotrophins by the pituitary gland in response to licking your fingers.  Even I know that!  KL

 

Klonkers ... Your a funny girl.  It got funnier the more times I read it. Its always important to have someone like yourself with some background in the medical field to explain things the way they really are. I should of know this as well but I got scared once I pulled up WebMD and typed in the words "Nacho cheese." LOL

 

Intend... You stated "I admire your enthusiasm and energy. Perhaps you are young and resilient. I'm not getting any younger and I'm losing any resilience as my problems have escalated."  I can totally relate to this. On all of it to be exact. You see I'm in the accounting field doing specialized corporate taxes in the heart of tax season right now. I'm also dealing with some stupid withdrawl symptoms that I really thought would be gone by now. Stress is an understatement. Ive had to provide for my family while going through ALL of this mess. Never thought I could do that. But some how I've managed. All I know is I got my ass handed to me by this withdrawl. I thought I was tuff enough to handle it early on but I was wrong. This thing was way stronger than me and I needed guidance from a few people to get me through it. All my energy and enthusiasm comes from my friends that I talk to daily that have healed. They were just like me and you. Their real good at minimizing the unknown. Not one thing surprises them because they've gone through it and survived. I cant say anything to them that they haven't been through or experienced as far as symptoms. Just focus on yourself right now. Who cares if other people have had problems with xanax. Its the most widely prescribed drug in the world. Of course theres going to be stories. But none of those people are you. Believe in yourself and your OWN path. I'm told this by a friend everyday.

 

Take Care, Rock

[[In...]]

Xana,

 

Thank you for your very supportive reply.  Finding the truth is very much the hardest part of any issue.  I have come to believe that it is very individual as we all are, and completely applies in this situation as well.  I had a very rough day yesterday with my cognitive skills put into the background by my very reactive emotional non-skills.  But as i am often a not so emotional person, yesterday I was, and I expressed myself as me at that moment.  I have no real reason to doubt some of the things Breggin says.  But I believe he is speaking about the many of those who fall in the critical regions of the bell curve, or at least outside the 2 standard deviations of the mean where is considered the majority of the population in any clinical test that is done or any randomized study that is done. 

 

He is talking statistics here to a wide population who do not necessarily understand that field, and doing so does work well for pointing this all out to the general public.  I certainly wont be verifying what I just said because it is my opinion, and I have no desire to research how he got his information.  But any real scientist does it this way.  I have a degree in mathematics and psychology so I am well versed in this field although I now am in the social work field.  Anyway, enough said.  Thank you again for your cogent and insightful reply to a very concerned BB here.

 

Intend

[[In...]]

gail,

 

Thank you for your reply to my posting.  I do not doubt the dependency issues with these drugs if perhaps that is what you think.  I make no argument for that position.  I was generally disturbed that this issue that is well settled here on BB comes up in continuing articles here on BB (particularly of the celebrity kind which is overworn I believe) where we supposedly already have the info.

 

In regards to Breggin allow me to say this as today is another day and I am currently able to write and speak more coherently and perhaps with less emotion controlling me.  As any population that is studied by any reputable scientist, there are controlled clinical trials and randomized studies done.  That studies results will put the population under the "bell curve" where there is an average/mean result for the study.  The majority (in general) will fall within 2 standard deviations of that average, meaning in this case most would have some average level of funtionability.  Two SD below the mean, less than average but close, and two SD above the mean, better than average.  Others, as one travels out along the curve in either direction will fall into the similar categories of less and less, and more and more.  The critical regions are "way out there" and will register significan impairment or just over the top functionality (which probably reflects where they were before Benzos or significant enhancement which seems unlikely).  But I just think Breggin might have used the further out group to talk about, but I dont know and I dont care to find out.  I have enough to deal with here as we all do. 

 

The dependence issue is not part of this for me.  I just dont need to read any more upsetting articles, especially when I am very well read on many subjects as well as this one.  Thank you again for your reply.

 

Intend 

[[In...]]

Krock,

 

Yes I can see that you have your share of responsibilities to handle at what I feel is one of our hardest if not the hardest time of our lives.  You still exude much enthusiasm and energy which is good as you have much to deal with as do I.  It is early in the day for me yet, and I am currently able to express myself with less pessimism.  Thank you for your supportive words and for telling me about yourself as it gives me very good perspective on me and how I am trying to handle all that I must.  This is where online support for me is good and I recognize that.

 

I have been a relentless investigator for most of my life, and I feel (in that mindset, but with too much emotion and upset), I read that article yesterday.  It really is not necessary to "debunk" any of it.  It is as I explained in my previous post to BB gail, the result of some scientific study which does not necesssarily address the population in general.  If it is not, then it should be case aside as there is not any scientific basis for it.  Nevertheless, I have read enough of the BB scary stories, and I know to avoid them as they change nothing and solve nothing.  The only real thing is seeking resolution to the problem.  I shall continue to do that and not be sidetracked by articles that show no support for these problems.  Thank you again.  Good thread, and I continue to follow it.

 

Intend

[[Co...]]

Hi Intend to be off,

 

Thank you for your posts.

 

What many people fail to understand, both supporters and detractors of online support groups (such as BB), is that we are a self-selecting group. You would expect our members, on the whole, to be outliers on the bell curve (one side of the curve). Those who experience few problems are very much less likely to seek out a forum such as ours, and even less likely to join.

 

The members of this community do not represent the general benzodiazepine-user or -taperer. Our members are the ones more in need of support. Our supporters should understand that we are not 'typical'. This means that if someone going through benzo-withdrawal just happens upon us, but is not struggling, they have little reason to join us and probably would not benefit from participating here. On the other hand, those that think because the average person withdrawing or tapering will manage fine without us, improperly assume there is no need for a support forum such as BB. We cater for the outliers. This is why BB is framed as a 'support group', and not a 'campaigning group'. I am not suggesting that there no problems with the prescribing practices of many doctors in regard to benzodiazepines (there is plenty of evidence that very many doctors routinely ignore existing best-practice and proscribing guidelines), but for BB to be a campaigning group might only serve to complicate and misrepresent the issues. Those selling the drugs will obviously try to misrepresent the issues (hiding data that does not support their position - which is rife in the pharmaceutical industry - for example), but I will not react the other way and apply the experience of outliers to the general population.

 

Again, there are real problems with benzodiazepines, and I am certainly not trying to downplay or deny them. It is purely that I don't think it best serves our purposes to misrepresent the situation as other than what it is. Those who proclaim that benzos should be banned, do not properly understand the problem. Those that claim there is no problem, are either a financially interested party, or they are woefully ignorant.

 

So, this support group exists for those that feel they might benefit, that's all.

[[In...]]

Colin,

 

Thank you for your input to the discussion. I consider BB to be a support group for those seeking information and some guidance to "get off" benzodiazepine drugs and not a "campaigning" type group either for or against these drugs.

 

I agree with you that people who are not having difficulties would be far less likely to seek out or join a group like this. I do not know the actual percentages of the population who take these drugs and then successfully get off of them without much problem. Considering the number of prescriptions written for them every year (somewhere in the millions I believe) and the number of BB members, it is most likely true that BB consists of those "outliers" who have struggled to be off the meds, need some extra help, and thus do lie in the minority. And this struggle and the many "mysteries" it can present is the reason, I think, in agreement with you, that this minority joins a group like BB.

 

My discussion of the "bell curve" is a curve drawn up of exclusively "outliers." I simply express the hope that any good scientist presenting a position on any subject using such a curve (which is generally basis for presentation) do so without being such a campaigner themselves. When that happens, science becomes subject to a lobbying campaign and loses objectivity, prior knowledge, and is based on emotion rather than fair display of fact.

 

However, I also realize that we are all, including scientists, human and will be emotional from time to time. Recognition of this means that BB is not a "debating group or society" but, as you say, a support group with varieties of opinions, emotions, and general support around getting off benzodiazepines. Thank you again for your clarifications. I hope I have made some sense here myself.

 

Intend

[[...]]

We can't forget that there are 'outliers' when it comes to pretty much every drug on the market.

 

There are even 'outliers' when it comes to natural poisons or toxins, for that matter. For instance: Some people will die after one or two bee stings while others can withstand a swarm of bees and survive.

 

The 'outliers'. This is what is not being taken into consideration, especially with what are known as the class of psychotropic drugs. When a victim of these drugs starts feeling worse on the drug - the dose is raised and sometimes new drugs added to the mix. People who seek help for "mental problems" are vilified and the drug's failure is blamed on the individuals and not on the drug. This is not so with other drugs that have proven to be deadly. We need to all face the fact that benzos ARE deadly and though it is hard to overdose on benzos and die, it is a whole lot easier to die when trying to get off of the drug after long term use and therein lie the problems.

 

A person grown weary of the side effects and inter-dose withdrawal but yet fighting to get off the drug will most times stay on - just to avoid withdrawals. At first these drugs work fine and the patient is seduced into thinking they are miracle drugs ... but when the side effects (negative effects) and inter-dose withdrawal become unbearable benzos become as poison.

 

I remember reading a statement by one of the docs campaigning against this drug that "IF" it were a drug for, say, high blood pressure or something "other than" mental/emotional problems and had been responsible for as many lives lost as this drug has, it would be off the market in a flash. So I will say it again (with this drug) the patient is vilified and blamed if it doesn't 'work' rather than the drug being at fault. In this way we become slaves to this drug. ... that is until we find out how to safely taper off of it ... usually through online support groups since the medical industry simply cold-turkeys you with a prescription of a drug for seizure control.

 

I really hate this drug and it terrifies me to know that people have died while in cold turkey withdrawal and this is what people should be informed of before they are placed on benzos for long term 'therapy'. I truly wish there was no need for support forums ... then this would mean the drug is being prescribed AND, more importantly, discontinued in a responsible manner.

 

I am sorry, but I can't help but rant about this because it has been going on for far too long and too many generations have fallen victim.

[[KR...]]

I don't like being an "Outlier".    I've been called alot of things, but never that!! LOL This is all very disturbing to say the least. There has to be a better name for us. Cant we just be "special people" or something? It sounds warmer and fuzzier. 

 

As far as the Bell Curve. I'm not down with that either. There are way to MANY variables with peoples health and other meds to get accurate data on any of this. How can you really get accurate data when everyone is DIFFERENT? You CANT. Impossible. Therefor the bell curve cant be accurate either. Ive never once considered myself in some hypothetical "Bell Curve". What a joke. No 2 people are alike. I'm in my "OWN" curve. 

 

There's NO rhyme or reason to withdrawl as far as length or symptoms. You cant predict any of it. I would be completely INSANE if I believed everything I read about withdrawl to this point. What one person says seems to contradict the other. Just don't personalize ANY of it. I remember reading in Professor Ashton's book that said acute withdrawl is like the first 6 to 8 weeks or something like that. I was like O'Thank God!! I can handle that. LOL I cant wait till this phase comes and goes. Ya RIGHT!! What a let down that was. She WASN'T even close!!! After that I was like screw reading this stuff. It made me feel way worse. She had me thinking maybe I'm different than the patients she studied and I'm in DEEP doo doo. Hummm... Just what I need to be reading about. LOL  I have to say I was hoping like hell she was right on alot of things. Thing was she WASNT. And here she is suppose to be "THE EXPERT." Her book is good in regards to different tapers and symptoms. But that's about the extent of it. Just a whole lot of speculation after that. Once your OFF the pills its anyones guess how long it will take you to heal or progress. You may be fast. You may be slow. But reading into to much scientific data or books will just set you up for repeated let downs. You might have a better chance of picking the winning Lottery numbers than guessing how all this is going to go down.

 

Take Care, Professor Rock

[[we...]]

Ashton really sugar coats the whole process.  I was reading acute withdrawal 6-8 weeks, my a@@.  Mine took 9 months, finally got a break around 9 - 11 months. Not feeling well by any expent of the imagination.  Yeah, sometimes I wonder if ashton would have written the truth, maybe on one would have beleived it, she had at least to be beleivable.  Also, maybe is to encourage other people who are coming off, otherwise it would be too scary.

 

Also, she did not go through it.

 

I've come to the conclusion that there is no way to possibly exagerage this experience.

[[ha...]]

Rather than being outliers, another way of saying one end of the bell curve is being in the top 5% (which is a couple of standard deviations, or so, above the mean)! Or being outside the average area. I still will argue or maybe just jump up and down    to suggest that we might think we are on one end of a bell curve, but I still respectfully (sort of) think that there might still be more than a few of us out there. In my tiny circle of people I am finding where I live (a total of 4 - very few, I know, I know) and the other three know they are physically dependent, and wondering how to come off them....................oh well. I hope I am wrong in this thought....

On line support - sure, it might not help - you can get addicted to the website and dependent on the people in the group and have suggestions from the web that make us all think that we have something much worse than we do have. I hope we don't read too many bad things!!!

[[Wi...]]

Perhaps subset is a better word than outlier.  There are millions of prescriptions given out each year.  Of those there are short (day to a couple weeks) and then those on for longer than a couple weeks.  Of those, many appear to get off the med with minimal difficulty. 

 

However there is I would imagine, a larger subset then we are aware of (although not quantifiable) that despite the challenges that long term usage causes, don't realize it's the benzos causing problems and choose to stay on the drug possibly because they are told it's necessary or have tried to w/d and found the challenges worse than the reprecussions of staying on the drug and just stay on them for life.

 

Then there is a subset of those who try to get off and like so many of us are told either it's a reoccurance of their symptoms we went on in the first place or not w/d but something entirely different (mood disorders, fibromyalgia, etc) and instead of addressing the actual issue, become poly drugged but never realize they are suffering from w/d.  And given 6 months to a couple years, most of them, having nothing to do with the poly drugging, survive w/d.

 

Then there is a subset who try to w/d off the drug and realize they are in trouble and either find help or don't and just suffer through it.  And from that is a subset of those who find online support. 

 

So I belive the problem is much larger, number wise, than is indicated by the numbers on support websites.  This, as someone once said, is the invisible addiction.  We probably will never know how many of us are actually out there, but my guess is there are a lot more than we think.

[[ha...]]

WWWI: you prove that you are equal to your name, again! I agree with subset. I also think you are right in that there are more of us. I guess, really, does it matter? I think what matters that at every opportunity we give feedback about our experience to people who can help others.

[[ja...]]

Hmmm I really just dont know what a Outlier is or a Bell Curve for that matter.

I just may attempt to use google  .

 

Wish me luck hope I dont come out of there with a whole new prospective of myself .

 

I have never been one for a Scientific Aspect. I more so like to put my Faith to the Forfront.Make it Tangable and then make it happen. Given I fill my head with a whole bunch of other peoples Prospective ,Opinions. Can surely steal a persons Fire.And Quick.

 

Rock ur spot on when it comes to Ashtons data.. I myself had acute for many long months. Idk ur rt. We all are so different . But given determination to stay away from the Benzos and other compromiseing things to our brain.One thing is the same.We All Heal.

Keep keeping on and stay real focused and stay as possitive as possible ..Time passes.Not only do you get better, Life gets restored.

 

WWW.. ur such a Wise woman.. Love it. Hang in there

 

~Jenny

[[KR...]]

Jenny.... I just Googled the word "Outlier" for you. It showed me a picture of a "Outlander" from the movie Children of the Corn.   How can this be?? Now I'm really worried.  This is not how I portray myself around all the humans.

 

I just want to be a "subset" and call it a day!!

[[sp...]]

I have found that when I am most upset, Google is NOT my friend. I do not believe that Ashton sugar coats this, as she would have no reason to -- however, she is writing in general about her experience withdrawing hundreds of people from benzos. She was able to taper most of them down with 'tolerable' side effects on the schedules outlined in the papers she published. That doesn't mean that every one of her patients was able to withdraw on that schedule, and as she points out, this is a very individual process and the numbers she gives are just the raw averages. Certainly there is some (lucky) subset who was able to withdraw faster, which logically means that there's another subset who took longer than that.

 

Don't think of yourself as an "outlier", this does have scary implications, and will cause you to fixate, become more distressed, more worried -- and all of that will quite literally feed into the withdrawal. Case in point: ten days ago I was in the midwest in an extremely difficult visit with some family, and because of problems at the hotel I was at, I averaged 3 hours a night of sleep for 3 nights straight. By the 4th night, my tinnitus and anxiety were about 200-300% as bad as they usually are. So, that's a case of external stress making things worse. Internal stress can do the same thing, and then it becomes a feedback loop. You just have to step outside that, with faith in your ability to heal, and clean living. I think that's where this thread came from to start with -- for people who are already in the loop, reading about the really scary experiences of others, can help keep them in that loop.

 

Just my two cents.

[[ja...]]

Jenny.... I just Googled the word "Outlier" for you. It showed me a picture of a "Outlander" from the movie Children of the Corn.   How can this be?? Now I'm really worried.  This is not how I portray myself around all the humans.

 

I just want to be a "subset" and call it a day!!

Rock.. Lmao...

 

All I know is I just went against my better judgement .. I googled Subset! Ive learned I'm not Brilliant!I have no Clue what I just Read!.Bahaha. This is so bad on my Intilect. . I knew I should just stick to Hopefilled posts and stay away from all this Insight, 

 

~Jenny

 

[[Kl...]]

I have found that when I am most upset, Google is NOT my friend. I do not believe that Ashton sugar coats this, as she would have no reason to -- however, she is writing in general about her experience withdrawing hundreds of people from benzos. She was able to taper most of them down with 'tolerable' side effects on the schedules outlined in the papers she published. That doesn't mean that every one of her patients was able to withdraw on that schedule, and as she points out, this is a very individual process and the numbers she gives are just the raw averages. Certainly there is some (lucky) subset who was able to withdraw faster, which logically means that there's another subset who took longer than that.

 

Don't think of yourself as an "outlier", this does have scary implications, and will cause you to fixate, become more distressed, more worried -- and all of that will quite literally feed into the withdrawal. Case in point: ten days ago I was in the midwest in an extremely difficult visit with some family, and because of problems at the hotel I was at, I averaged 3 hours a night of sleep for 3 nights straight. By the 4th night, my tinnitus and anxiety were about 200-300% as bad as they usually are. So, that's a case of external stress making things worse. Internal stress can do the same thing, and then it becomes a feedback loop. You just have to step outside that, with faith in your ability to heal, and clean living. I think that's where this thread came from to start with -- for people who are already in the loop, reading about the really scary experiences of others, can help keep them in that loop.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Nice, Spengler.  You are exactly on point.  Thank you for bringing this thread back to KRock's brilliant thesis and I say this with all humility.  :)Hugs, KL

[[rs...]]

I guess i just wanted to post this in regards to some of the things Ive read on line while in withdrawl. I believe it creates ALOT more fear and anxiety than needed. Lets just say you never read it and went about your day doing some positive self talking and reassuring yourself that your going to be fine. Would your mind be alot clearer from the pain and suffering you just read about for the last 2 hours on the computer. Hell Yes!!Sometimes I read into someones posts and start thinking could that be me? What if i get that? Or I know I'm super screwed now. Then i start comparing my withdrawl to their withdrawl. The next thing you know I'm dwelling about things I would never of thought up in my life. I mean racing thoughts are bad enough without all the stuff I expose myself to on line. Then to top it off you will post something and you get respones from certain people that you have no idea of their past medical history. You don't know them at all. Like what meds their were on, if there still on meds, or lets say their still on other psych meds and just don't want to tell you because they think people will look down on them. Their really just some screen name telling you whats up. You have NO idea if these people are telling you the truth about anything. Just because their Sig line says one thing doesn't mean its even close to whats really going on. Yet we let them give us advise about what we should do. Or how things are going to go down. Crazy as that sounds . People do it. And they BELIEVE it. Happens to people everyday. Some of the stuff Ive been told on line has scared the hell out of me. Did the things ever happen? NOPE!! Not even close.. But I sure thought they were going to. All because I exposed myself to it. Ive seen people get WAY worse from having this happen to them. The reason I bring this up is because No withdrawl is the same. And the bottom line is you don't know what people are doing on the other side of the computer in there personal life that's effecting their withdrawl in one way or another. You don't know why their story is unfolding the way it is. It could be anything. I think everyone needs to be VERY cautious about what you read into and what you take serious. And what you even let your brain read while going through this process. Because if your having a tuff withdrawl. And many are. You don't need to be flooding your brain with a bunch of negative info and topic lines that you shouldn't be exposing yourself to in the first place. It can make a bad withdrawl WAY worse. And really it may just make you feel like your alot worse than you really are and take you down the wrong path. I know everyone says to distract. But there are alot of healthy ways to do it that wont scare the hell out of you. Theirs plenty of positive info to read on line. But there is alot of alot of negative stuff as well that will stick to you like glue. I guess this is just something I wanted to throw out their. I hope everyone has contined healing and progress. Be safe!

 

Rock

keep it real club, I can only say that research has helped me immensly while in w/d from benzos. I don't know what i would have done without SOME of the people and info i read about here. You have to know that everyones situation is completely different and only use info that is relevant to your situation. If you feel like it hurts your recovery TURN OFF THE COMPUTER.

 

I only wish i had found this site before i ever touched a benzo for stress and insomnia. My doctor told me minimal s/x and he could easily get me off them. I only read about xanax in a pdr and it only gave tech info and dosage ranges. Hindsite is 20/20 so now i"m in the fight for my life. The only people that i can talk to about this are total strangers in hell. Is it possible that there are some people not telling the whole truth? Well hell yeah. Are there good people that are honest? Of course there are.  It helps me to talk and relate to others who are going through this. This is why i joined a benzo forum.  Is it sad to read of suffering? you bet it is. Some people have a very difficult time with w/d while some people can walk away. I think most people here are in paw's

 

Another thing is there are some people researching benzo w/d that are not addicted yet. There are others that have taken them for a short time. If it helps one person realize the dangers of what could be i think it is a good thing. I'm a person that looks for the truth where ever i can find it. I want to know whats going on around me at all times. I'm sorry to say the world is not a pretty place today and we must all look for happiness and truth where we can find it. keep it real, ali G

[[Wi...]]

WWWI: you prove that you are equal to your name, again! I agree with subset. I also think you are right in that there are more of us. I guess, really, does it matter? I think what matters that at every opportunity we give feedback about our experience to people who can help others.

 

Thanks. But I kind like the idea of being in the top 5% too 

 

WWWI