Online Support....Can it make things worse?

[[ja...]]

I agree that one ought not "prescribe" but if one says "this happened to me and this is what I did.  It may or may not work for you", then fine.  If one says "this will definitely work for you", then it can become a problem.

Gotta run,

 

Vertigo

This is it in a Nut Shell. This is the problem. I have seen it over and over again. People are saying Reinstate.This will Elevate your suffering.Not always the case as KRock knows all to well...Or better yet.. Hey drop ur meds sooner then later or ur gonna be doing this for 100 years. I mean Ive even seen where people are arguing about how One is taking so long to get off and there way is the Right way. Not cool. I'm serious when it comes to Not telling people how to do this and giving medical advise. Its WRONG . I'm no expert ,I have no qualifications in giving serious medical advise that can damage ones well being. I think None of us do. Why does it matter that one is tapering for a extended amount of time if its working for them? I have no idea why One may want to see there POV carried out at the expense of anothers Mental and Physical well fair .

 

This is the thing... Just because someone gives this serious advise about lets just say Reinstating  and does it with the IMO behind it as to not hold any responsibility.... Well that's just as bad as saying... It will definitely work for you Because truth be told .This w/d takes away our ability to think clearly and make Logical decisions IMO..

 

~Jenny

[[wa...]]

Hey Krock

 

People that come to this site and are desperate, they are suffering badly. They are looking for advice, any advice to get out of their Hell. They see that someone has been a member here for an extended period of time and assume that person knows what they are talking about. What a prime hunting ground for a narcissist.

 

Its OK to say I don't know what you should do, but thats not conceivable to the narcissist. This is an opportunity to display their own belief that they are an expert in withdrawal. They will recommend reinstating, updosing, the addition of other drugs, such as a/d's, a/p's. But in true narcissist fashion they will blame the victim when things go wrong. After all, their advice was well meaning, and if it made you worse its not their fault they were only giving suggestions. Narcissists have no empathy for the victim so the victim gets the blame for their decisions. When the recommendations are questioned by other well meaning people, then the narcissist goes on the attack, they will do anything to defend their position.

 

I too, was told to reinstate by the same individual. I was 6 months post c/t detox at the time. I was extremely paradoxical to benzos, they were poison to me. This did not stop this person from continuing to suggest reinstatement or additional drugs. Of course, I have no proof of it at this point, it was done through the PM system long ago.

 

As Krock once stated, "The best post can be no post"

Taken a little further "The best advice may be no advice"

 

PS. I hope you are feeling better, Krock. Cold turkey detox is a special kind of suffering. Still struggling here but trying to push through.

 

Oh yeah, Hi Jenny

[[Ho...]]

I agree that one ought not "prescribe" but if one says "this happened to me and this is what I did.  It may or may not work for you", then fine.  If one says "this will definitely work for you", then it can become a problem.

Gotta run,

 

Vertigo

This is it in a Nut Shell. This is the problem. I have seen it over and over again. People are saying Reinstate.This will Elevate your suffering.Not always the case as KRock knows all to well...Or better yet.. Hey drop ur meds sooner then later or ur gonna be doing this for 100 years. I mean Ive even seen where people are arguing about how One is taking so long to get off and there way is the Right way. Not cool. I'm serious when it comes to Not telling people how to do this and giving medical advise. Its WRONG . I'm no expert ,I have no qualifications in giving serious medical advise that can damage ones well being. I think None of us do. Why does it matter that one is tapering for a extended amount of time if its working for them? I have no idea why One may want to see there POV carried out at the expense of anothers Mental and Physical well fair .

 

This is the thing... Just because someone gives this serious advise about lets just say Reinstating  and does it with the IMO behind it as to not hold any responsibility.... Well that's just as bad as saying... It will definitely work for you Because truth be told .This w/d takes away our ability to think clearly and make Logical decisions IMO..

 

~Jenny

 

Jenny,

 

I share your concern. This is why we have Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice but this is still a hard call. Can anyone say anything to any member as long as they include "IMO"...for me the answer is "no". We must be very careful how we word things...even if we tag it with an "IMO". A member cannot say "You should stop taking your medication, IMO". That doesn't fly and I consider this prescriptive. If you read our guidelines our members can see how this differs from "If it were me, I'd consider talking to my doctor about discontinuing this medication". This isn't a black or white statement and leaves room for the member to consider this idea.

 

We've had members who have spoken with great authority when giving advice. When this happens, this is often reported to the team and we have taken action. However, even for the moderation team these calls are difficult. As has been said, there is no one right answer. This is why we ask that all querstions be asked on the open forum. This way if one member suggests something that is not in the best interest of another member, other buddies will speak out on that same thread. The idea being that the member who is in need of help will get a balanced perspective and make up their mind based on all available opinions and information.

 

Hope

[[ja...]]

Hope..

 

Thanks for what you said ..I think its got to be so hard for the team to make these calls. I know its all very tricky. Thats why I really respect the rules. Its scary to me the Amount of Power one can have in such a scary situation .We just dont have the Judgement and Clear thinking when in so much pain its natural to want to follow in the foot steps of another with out clearly thinking of all the Precautions ...

 

Want.. HI! What a awesome post. I really think it was very good. Its real nice to see your thinking and words are so clear with such a Impact to them.. I hope ur doing better ..

 

~Jenny

[[Po...]]

What would be the sense of coming to the forum if we didn't get help and support from the members.  A lot of the discussion on this forum has helped people realize their withdrawal symptoms were similar to others.  And yet I have seen people tell others to check with their doctor to make sure it was just withdrawal, and not something serious.

 

Maybe I have just not run across the "doctor" on here giving medical advice.  I am sorry that you did.  Why would we even have sections devoted to tapering if people weren't seeking help from other people's experience.  How would anyone know how to taper.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here but people come here for help and you can't blame people for wanting to help them. 

 

Don't get me wrong, NO ONE should tell anyone what to do; but if talking about their experience helps someone - so be it.

[[Ho...]]

The problem arises when the talk goes beyond sharing one's experience and becomes authoritative and prescriptive.

[[pa...]]

Hi All.. I have followed Krock's thread for some time, I haven't responded, as I didn't think I should have the honor, out of respect, to even post or reply, as I'm not going through wds from being on this drug, though, I did many years ago, I'm just here in supporting my husband.

 

I'm coming in from a differant door on this, as what I mentioned above.  With a heavy heart, I've read, and read Jaso's posts (not to intrude) to Krock, re leazing what further occurred with him.  You see, when we had the chat room, I was on this site for my husband in terror with this whole thing for him, Krock.. my buddie by a differant name then, we were chatting all the time.  I remember all.  I just know that no one should have ever, as well meaning as they thought, ever give any buddie advise of up dosing, recommending going to an a/d or something else.  I have seen this time and time again.  No bbs has the right to do this, no matter what state they are in, or what their belief about it is.  Everything should be referred to the Team, with dosing, tapering, etc.  That's where each bbs on this site, needs to be aware of this, send a report on when they see this.  Yes, I know some of you will say... blah, blah, blah..  Patty is in a differant realm.. and yes I am.. but it is still hell.

 

Krock.. Jaso.. you both are the very best.  I'm truly grateful that you both found eachother through this nightmare and became the best of friends.  Krock my buddy from the past... I know you still are going forward to the healing door and are not there yet... You will be.  Like your dear friend Jaso says.. its right around the corner.  Your dear friend Jaso... her words of you are a measure of who you are.  Bless you both always.

 

So... after my winded long post.  Krock, Jenny... Hope... no one, should give any advise when it comes to the meds, up, down or all around... This site is for support for one is going through, emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually... Anything other then that. they need to be referred to the Team!

 

Hugs.. Patty

[[Po...]]

Ok, so in the future I will never say anything in fear that I will be giving advice.  Just so I understand, no one should give any advice, ie. suggestions  about tapering.  Sorry I stepped in the middle of this.  In the future I will just read.

 

You are so right - it can make things worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ho...]]

I think there is a grey area here. This isn't an all or nothing thing. Here is a run down for you. Maybe it will help:

 

 

 

Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice

BenzoBuddies is a mutual support community of non-medical professionals, helping those that wish to end their dependency upon benzodiazepines.

 

Although members are encouraged to relate their personal experiences, post options, and express opinions, it is inappropriate to urge other members into particular actions or inactions regarding their medical treatment. Although we are here to help those that wish to quit benzodiazepines, the decision to quit (or not quit) is for the individual to take in consultation with a suitably qualified medical practitioner.

 

By extension of the above principles, it would be inappropriate for members to attempt to 'diagnose' ailments of (or 'prescribe' treatments for) other members. Whilst it is permitted for members to discuss their wider medical problems and needs, especially as they relate to benzodiazepine use and withdrawal, it is important to understand the limitations of the BenzoBuddies community. Our focus is upon benzodiazepine withdrawal support; decisions regarding medical treatment are for individual members to take in consultation with a doctor.

 

Although our focus is indeed support, members are bound to have questions, will wish to discuss practical issues and problems, and share information. There is no limit upon reasonable discussion, but you should consider how your writing style might affect those reading your words. Since individuals are highly variable in how they react to benzodiazepine use and withdrawal, and some people taking benzodiazepines are more suggestible than they might be under different circumstances, you should avoid making blanket statements.

 

Contrast:

 

e.g.1 I've been a member here for some time now, and I have seen several members experience very pronounced withdrawal effects when they attempted a similar withdrawal regimen to the one suggested by your doctor. Have you discussed the possibility of tapering off more slowly?

 

e.g.2 Have you considered seeking the opinion of another doctor?

 

with:

 

e.g.3 Your doctor is wrong; you should taper no faster than 10% of your dose every 7 days.

 

e.g.4 Dump your doc - he's wrong.

 

Clearly, the first two examples understand the limits of what we can know, and respect the individual to determine their own health choices. The second two attempt to instruct others to follow particular actions, and would be unacceptable.

 

It might be appropriate, in some situations, to write in a more instructional style. Clearly, if a member is about to harm themselves (or someone else), or suggests something that would be universally considered as medically unsafe, a straight, instructional, unequivocal response is probably appropriate. Additionally, when writing about something formulaic, such as, for example, how to calculate a dose, or some other technical matter, then, of course, an instructional style is appropriate.

 

The purpose of these guidelines is to help members avoid unduly influencing others in decisions they should be taking for themselves in consultation with a doctor. Since our members have joined BenzoBuddies with the intention of quitting benzodiazepines, or would like more information to help them make an informed decision about future use, there really is no need to urge fellow members to end their use of benzodiazepines.

[[Po...]]

What would be the sense of coming to the forum if we didn't get help and support from the members.  A lot of the discussion on this forum has helped people realize their withdrawal symptoms were similar to others.  And yet I have seen people tell others to check with their doctor to make sure it was just withdrawal, and not something serious.

 

Maybe I have just not run across the "doctor" on here giving medical advice.  I am sorry that you did.  Why would we even have sections devoted to tapering if people weren't seeking help from other people's experience.  How would anyone know how to taper.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here but people come here for help and you can't blame people for wanting to help them. 

 

Don't get me wrong, NO ONE should tell anyone what to do; but if talking about their experience helps someone - so be it.

 

And why is what I said wrong?  Help me to understand.  Why was my post corrected by Hope1962 and Pattylu

[[Ho...]]

Popcornlady,

 

I did not "correct" your post. I was clarifying for the wider membership the best and safest way to give advice on the forum.

 

 

Hope

[[Po...]]

Popcornlady,

 

I did not "correct" your post. I was clarifying for the wider membership the best and safest way to give advice on the forum.

 

 

Hope

 

 

My misunderstanding, it just seems that with all the postings that were made, it was after mine that you and Pattylu decided to reply to.

[[Ho...]]

Ok, so in the future I will never say anything in fear that I will be giving advice.  Just so I understand, no one should give any advice, ie. suggestions  about tapering.  Sorry I stepped in the middle of this.  In the future I will just read.

 

You are so right - it can make things worse.

 

 

 

 

Part of the reason I posted our guidelines was based on this post of yours. This is why I mentioned before hand that this is not a black and white issue. Also, posting our guidelines will hopefully help those who may be confused, to understand a little better.

[[pa...]]

What would be the sense of coming to the forum if we didn't get help and support from the members.  A lot of the discussion on this forum has helped people realize their withdrawal symptoms were similar to others.  And yet I have seen people tell others to check with their doctor to make sure it was just withdrawal, and not something serious.

 

Maybe I have just not run across the "doctor" on here giving medical advice.  I am sorry that you did.  Why would we even have sections devoted to tapering if people weren't seeking help from other people's experience.  How would anyone know how to taper.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here but people come here for help and you can't blame people for wanting to help them. 

 

Don't get me wrong, NO ONE should tell anyone what to do; but if talking about their experience helps someone - so be it.

 

And why is what I said wrong?  Help me to understand.  Why was my post corrected by Hope1962 and Pattylu

 

Hi Popcornlady,

 

I think there is a misunderstanding, I was not replying to what you posted, and I made "no" correction to "your" post.    I was only replying to Krock, what happened to him.  I'm sorry you took this as such.  Though, I still think everyone needs to be very, very careful not to be advising anyone about updosing, down dosing, crossover; that's what Krock wrote about.  Discussing symptoms and what one is going through is a differant story.  Pattylu

[[ve...]]

What would be the sense of coming to the forum if we didn't get help and support from the members.  A lot of the discussion on this forum has helped people realize their withdrawal symptoms were similar to others.  And yet I have seen people tell others to check with their doctor to make sure it was just withdrawal, and not something serious.

 

Maybe I have just not run across the "doctor" on here giving medical advice.  I am sorry that you did.  Why would we even have sections devoted to tapering if people weren't seeking help from other people's experience.  How would anyone know how to taper.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here but people come here for help and you can't blame people for wanting to help them. 

 

Don't get me wrong, NO ONE

 

should tell an

 

yone what to do; but if talking about their experience helps someone - so be it.

 

Well said. Some come to a forum out of frustration with a doctor.  That is not to say that they expect medical advise but some may look for alternative solutions to think over or present to another doctor. It happened to me.

[[ja...]]

What would be the sense of coming to the forum if we didn't get help and support from the members.  A lot of the discussion on this forum has helped people realize their withdrawal symptoms were similar to others.  And yet I have seen people tell others to check with their doctor to make sure it was just withdrawal, and not something serious.

 

Maybe I have just not run across the "doctor" on here giving medical advice.  I am sorry that you did.  Why would we even have sections devoted to tapering if people weren't seeking help from other people's experience.  How would anyone know how to taper.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here but people come here for help and you can't blame people for wanting to help them. 

 

Don't get me wrong, NO ONE

 

should tell an

 

yone what to do; but if talking about their experience helps someone - so be it.

 

Well said. Some come to a forum out of frustration with a doctor.  That is not to say that they expect medical advise but some may look for alternative solutions to think over or present to another doctor. It happened to me.

This would be the right thing to do. But most aren't coming here  to go back and show the doctors that have Dismissed every aspect of what there going thru as W/D.I would never want that responsibility on my shoulders..Some may show there Doctors and that's good.

 

But not so much for everyone. There desperate and scared and feel Alone. Feeling like No One understands.Its very Isolating so to come here and finding the Medical answers to a Non medical community is dangerous. Ive seen it first hand and for myself I am so thankful I didn't come on until I was already Head strong and 7 months into this.I was Desperate. Who knows where I would be rt now?

 

Popcornlady. I think Ur rt. I think if someones tapering already getting a good and balanced way to do it is good. But I'm talking more for the ones who are reaching with desperation to elevate there suffering perhaps in a C/T or Rapid Taper or even after Detox. Advise may be the exact opposite of what they need.

 

If someone is reaching for advise in a path that's already been chosen then giving it is what support is for. But for the ones who are Blinded by the Pain and Not knowing what to do well that's where I believe the doctors should come into play. Or else you may wind up like KRock and his whole family Suffering in the center of Loss and Pain beyond belief for a Indefinite amount of time.

 

I'm done on this I just think this support site is so Wonderful and gives so much Comfort where No one understands. And some wonderful advise is given just NOT on RXing people.

 

 

[[In...]]

I've learned a lot on this forum. I haven't been able to put much into action because of the nature of my difficulty (mainly being switched back and forth between two benzos and crossover problems).

 

But I had never heard of titration until I read about it here on BB, so for me, that's important info.

 

I've had literally two times where advice was given that I had to think carefully about. And thinking carefully, and realizing that I'm me and not that other person, has helped. But it wasn't "medical/prescriptive" advice either. It was along the lines of "this is what I did and you could try it" type advice.

 

But there's no doubt, that in the throes of pain and confusion of w/d, one must be careful to distinguish between comparing sx and asking questions, and actually taking advice that can be detrimental to that person. That part is real hard, I think, for a lot of folks. I think I've been there where you just want the problem to stop and go away.

 

Many people in this situation are very vulnerable to any suggestion. I think the only answer is continued good moderation of the forum.

 

Intend

[[je...]]

Yeah, I must agree with the above about being very careful what you listen to.  I have been told on here countless times not to listen to my doctor.  However, no one else on here has my doctor or is in my situation or well like the above post said is me.  I personally take my doctors advice and not random people on the internet.  If you listen to all the negativity I think online support can definitely make things worse.  Everyones situation is different.  With that said I have gotten some great advice on here as well.

[[KR...]]

Try to make the best out of the Holidays if your feeling down. Hopefully 2013 will be a better year!

[[ja...]]

Merry Christmas JRock..

 

Have a beautiful day with your family. This is going to be your year of Change

[[Wh...]]

Merry Christmas Krock.  You're often in my thoughts.

 

[[KR...]]

Merry Christmas JRock..

 

Have a beautiful day with your family. This is going to be your year of Change

 

hey Jenny,,thanks for the xmas wishes...this is like someone sending me a xmas card and it got lost in the mail and i just got it. Your the best. 

[[KR...]]

Merry Christmas Krock.  You're often in my thoughts.

 

 

Hey Whoopsie!!! Hope all is well up in Canada!! Thanks for the xmas wishes. Sorry Ive lost track of this thread and my mind for a while. Im trying to tune back in. 

[[Wh...]]

Merry Christmas Krock.  You're often in my thoughts.

 

 

Hey Whoopsie!!! Hope all is well up in Canada!! Thanks for the xmas wishes. Sorry Ive lost track of this thread and my mind for a while. Im trying to tune back in. 

 

Hey!!!  I was talking to a benzo friend about you the other day and wondering how you're doing.  Send me a PM if you're up to it and let me know.

 

[[ja...]]

Merry Christmas JRock..

 

Have a beautiful day with your family. This is going to be your year of Change

 

hey Jenny,,thanks for the xmas wishes...this is like someone sending me a xmas card and it got lost in the mail and i just got it. Your the best. 

Hey JRock.. Yea I sent that months ago...Better late then never ...But I know you got the other Christmas wishes I sent you

 

Its so nice to see you here on the forum.. You have been through a very hard battle and its only natural to wanna hide for a bit.. Welcome back my Buddie...