Online Support....Can it make things worse?

[[In...]]

Thanks Lizzy,

 

I totally agree with you. I stayed off the forum for about a month cause I couldn't take all the stress of my own situation of having to go back from Xanax to klonopin after having some trouble with it. And I have to admit that I had done some complaining about being on klonopin so that many who I was "blogging with" were very convinced that only Xanax would work, and if not that, then Valium.

 

So the stress was not really from the bloggers but because I was really in distress at the time and even ended up in the ER. But when I came back on BB, people were fairly shocked that I would try klonopin again. Well that first go round, I didn't have good doctor guidance, and it's better this time.

 

But folks, even people I've never really posted with have warned me repeatedly against it over the last few days and really pushed the Valium. Well, I can't get the Valium, and I don't know how I would do on it anyway. I'm no spring chicken here, kids are 39 and 37, so I don't even know if I can really get totally off anything let alone Valium.

 

People mean well, but we all just have to help ourselves. Could be the klonopin is a hard thing to get off. But that's my focus right now-getting back on. I think I will have to try to taper some for sure and I'm willing. Xanax folks sometimes think that's the only way. Well we kinda have only three choices here anyway-Xanax, klonopin, and Valium. I know there's other ones on the forum, but those are the three I often see the most used that are being tapered.

 

And of course, it's always easy to give out all this advice when one is directly tapering from something or crossing over to Valium as per Ashton. Hey, if I have trouble, I have trouble. I've been having it anyway.

 

Intend

[Guest [...]]

Intend

 

the thing is around the world there are people getting off these drugs all the time and OFTEN without the shocking discomfort that we on this forum suffer.  To be truthful yesterday i had a few freakouts ok and quite clearly im prob 80 percent better now well thats today anyway ok and then i think how people on the forum told me how bad it is what i did i think about this and i internally freak out and then i have to say hang on it is what it is and you are ok but when i get caught up in the mind looping stuff that i read on here it does set me off.  People mean well i know that but sometimes by telling people their way is the right way it validates their choice.  Im not silly that often we as humans are always looking for some kind of validation.  I cant believe the words of strangers though literally kept me alive.  I chose to believe that part so i guess we can take the good and cast of the negative unfortunately when in times of crisis we latch on to the negative.  I know how scary it must be for you being a "mature" woman but your far from old yet.  peeps are living to a hundred so you will sort it out im sure.

 

Lizzyxx

[[In...]]

Lizzy,

 

I'm 62. Skinny and well built. Lift weights and use a treadmill regularly. Work part-time in high stress job-social work. Really requires good brain function cause lots of serious decision making.

 

These last few weeks, I've taken vacation that was "use or lose" meaning I had 80 excess hours to take or it was gone. I've worked so much that we were all wondering how I'd use up those hours, and then return to Xanax hit w/o success, and I had to see the doc who put me back on klonopin.

 

That was on 6/5. So I started back on that date, and had a major Xanax w/d reaction on 6/14 and had to go to ER. So I'm taking my time off and working my way back onto klonopin.

 

And I don't really look or feel super old, but this whole experience has kicked the sh... Out of me, particularly emotionally. And I know your right that many people just get off this crap w/o losing it. That's one reason docs think it's something else or imaginary.

 

I took Xanax for two years @2 mgs back in 1997-1999 cause I had breathing trouble. In 1999, had major surgery on my throat and surgeon said no Xanax. I was in the hospital for 10 days and only had some leg cramps. When I got home, I had some fear stuff, but that was it. Unfortunately, I started back on it in 2001 cause more awful throat troubles. But I was off after 2 years with no one even realizing how dangerous that could have been. I was one of those who got off w/o trouble.

 

Now because I've not been able to even get stable since I've been on BB, I really don't know how hard it will be for me cause I've never even had a chance to taper. Just been flipping back and forth this whole time. Maybe it won't be super hard, but we'll see.

 

But I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life on BB even though I've spent the last two days posting like a nut. I feel like I've lost some BB friends here cause so many were just so worried about this klonopin thing and wanting me back on Xanax, and then were so sure that only Valium was the answer for me. I don't even post on some of those threads anymore. Oh well, it's my life, I have to live it, and I am getting older. So I hope I stabilize here and can get on with things.

 

Intend

[Guest [...]]

Intend

 

sounds like you and I are in similiar lines of work unfortunately i cant work at the moment but im hoping by after christmas ill be back into the swing of things however i feel like a career change is what i need to stay healthy.  Ok i have a clearer picture of what is happening for you now.  funny how you never had bad reactions before as well.  I see this as a positive for you in the fact that maybe you are not super med sensitive however now you had that reaction to xanax your cns could be still a little fragile.  Im sure you will stabilise now you have made up your mind and you are sticking to it.  One thing to stay sane on online support is to find a group of people you can relate to regardless of what they are on how they got on and how they got off or getting off.  I have a great group of friends on here solid ones i know i can count on but it took me ages to get there.  However when bad it didnt matter i just needed support and i needed it now you know what im saying.  Dont worry if you lost friends on here because you made different choices hey just stick to the friends that make you comfortable and dont worry about posting like a nut look at my posts lol i cant remember any of them hope they made sense lol.

 

Lizzyxx

[Guest [...]]

I do hope the successes are real successes. I should read some I suppose.

 

Intend,

 

I am sorry for all the troubles you have been having. I, too, have been swapping back an forth with Xanax and Valium, and I too have been telling myself I need to read success stories for a bit of a boost in confidence. So the other day I went to that section and read a story from someone I have been following (and used to communicate with alot over on TRAP). I was thinking how much improvement there had been in the short time since I last read this person's blog.

 

I went back to the blog, only to find there had not been very much evidence of great improvement at all. I felt sorry for this person but also I felt that my inherent wariness in  taking things at face value had been vindicated. I'm not trying to imply this person was lying at all. We all have good days when we feel positive and hopeful that things are getting better and it shows in what we write.

 

This has put me off reading success stories because to me success would mean I was back to my core self, with no need or desire for psychotropic drugs at all. Just wanting and needing to be a success story after the battle does not necessarily make you so.

 

With regard to people leaving, I don't believe it is always because they have recovered. I have seen a few people leave recently because they were just over the forum for whatever reason. They are not healed and indeed some are really struggling, so I don't think this can be an indication of success.

 

Like you I am wondering whether I should have tried to get off Xanax. Maybe I am too old and have been taking it for too long. I know that I now feel very disappointed with myself that I have not achieved what I set out to achieve. If I'd gone on thinking Xanax was just something I needed, like my BP pills, to make life smoother, perhaps I would have been better off. Life was not perfect by any means but I didn't have this extra guilt to carry.

 

I am probably sounding very negative (mornings are not my best time). I don't mean to be. Just describing what has been a bit of a revelation to me recently. Your comment struck a chord.

 

Xana

[[In...]]

Lizzy,

 

I've read a ton of your posts and it seems you have friends all over this forum which is great. I, on the other hand stuck mainly to one thread, but I did branch out to offer a lot of commentary in chewing the fat, w and r, and titration.

 

So there are a few that know me as a commentator with some smarts, but that old thread is kind of kaput for me. I even had one of the longtime members PM me the other night about how my cross was going. I responded in some detail, told her her taper was looking good, and asked her how she was feeling with her taper. No response. Well, she's probably having a rough time with her taper, and she does have tons of other health issues, and hasn't been on BB very much recently; perhaps an hour per day where she used to be on all day.

 

I take this all with kind of a grain of salt. Sometimes BB seems more like a clique for many members especially with the PM thing and a lot do become close friends, phoning each other and all that. I've even had a tiny bit of that too, so I don't really put it down. But there's tons of info that flys around. When I was off for that month (before others knew about going back to K), I heard all the latest stuff that was never even on the forum.

 

It's the nature of a forum like this for sure. Overall, I just have to focus on getting back on klon and how the rest of that plays out. If I'd listened to people on the forum (like you were saying in the beginning), I be beating  down the doors of doctors, paying out all kinds of money to consult and find out what they'd do which is probably not much, and still experiencing the nerve wracking effects of Xanax and constantly watching the clock for my next dose.

 

None of this benzo stuff is good; that's for sure. But we just have to take it one step at a time.

 

Intend

 

[[In...]]

Xana,

 

I surely do wonder about the success stuff. It's not even wanting any drug, but will I be able to function w/o it. I do regret trying to get off it cause I just did so well with that one dose at night. Never any problem. Even went past the dosing time by many hours for one reason or another and it was never an issue. Just lived my life.

 

Now things are way more complicated. As I told Lizzy, I've never even experienced a taper since joining BB cause of all the complications of being bounced around between X and K.

 

I'm really up in the air about ever getting off anything now. I will taper this K to see how it goes. Maybe it won't be hard and my brain won't be totally fried. But these online success stories make me wonder.

 

I do notice that a lot of people type and spell well. Also seem to use good grammar and punctuation. I often can tell how people are doing by these indicators, even when they talk about what an awful time they are having. I think it's very individual.

 

Intend

 

 

[Guest [...]]

It's not even wanting any drug, but will I be able to function w/o it.

 

EXACTLY! That's how I feel. I am not wanting to sacrifice more time in misery.

 

I do regret trying to get off it cause I just did so well with that one dose at night. Never any problem. Even went past the dosing time by many hours for one reason or another and it was never an issue. Just lived my life.

 

I think it's great you only needed one dose per day without any craving. I usually took  (and TAKE) 2 doses per day - bigger dose in am as that is my crap time. I would also take extra for things that were stressful to me like doctor's visits, parties (which is so stupid because I was ALWAYS a party person and still am inside). I sometimes wonder if the bad mornings were always from a sort of interdose withdrawal (which I'd never heard of) in the long interval from the middle of the day before.

 

The fact you only took it once a day would surely help with tapering? I don't know but seems logical.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to stop thinking about all this stuff? I'd like to wind the clock back 20 years and not develop fibromyalgia. I'd willingly do those years again with the kids.

 

Better days to you.

 

Xana x

[[In...]]

Xana,

 

Yes it was great that I only needed one dose per day (although at the time, once I found out about dependency issues, I was horrified by the entire issue).

 

I do wish I could turn back the clock on this. However, I know I ended up on it cause I had a rare throat disorder and my trachea would close down to the size of a pencil-@5% of normal. I struggled with that for @8-9 years off and on, having 8 surgeries to open it up, and never getting it open more than 40% of normal. Finally, I had a major surgery to really open it up by having a rib removed and having the trachea rebuilt with the cartilage.

 

But it closed again and then I finally had two inches of my trachea removed to just get rid of that area. It was an awful time, and my husband had experienced a TBI which disabled him, I had gone back to school to finish my degree, my 16 year old got pregnant, and I had to take my insurance company into Federal Court to get them to pay for this throat thing. I actually remember being calm about this mess, but my older daughter tells me I was a nervous wreck.

 

So that's how I ended up on Xanax. Makes some sense I suppose. Too bad it just takes over like it does. But I wish I had a do over too. Better days for both of us.

 

Intend

[Guest [...]]

Oh, Intend, that is a complete horror story. I did read your earlier, briefer explanations but did not realise the terrible extent of it all. I have never even heard of this condition. Dreadful.

 

Sort of glad I hadn't heard of it as I used to get that 'closed throat' feeling from anxiety. I used to go and get the kids' peak flow meter (they all had asthma) and check my lung function to prove to myself I was indeed OK. I told a psychlogist this and she thought it was a brilliant idea and said she was going to buy a peak flow meter!

 

Who wouldn't need something to calm down after all that medical nightmare that you have suffered? I am so sorry you went through all of that. Very traumatic and life altering. And then your husband's TBI (which I had to google as I didn't know what it was). How is he now?

 

Sure does make sense about how you ended up on Xanax. I have discovered that many people on here have had pretty bad things happen that caused them to seek relief.

 

I was very annoyed the other day watching some random Youtube clip of a young man whose vocabulary was limited, raving on about how bad benzos were (or rather f***ing benzos seemed to be their new name). He did not have any mental issues (well, that is debatable) but his girlfriend was prescribed 60 Klonopin. He decided to take them because the 'stupid' doctor gave her so many. He took them recreationally and then when they ran out he suffered a C/T. So sorry for his suffering. NOT. He blamed drugs, the doctors and everything else except himself. I thought that if a random person with no knowledge of this stuff happened across it, what chance would we get of being understood? I was so mad to think we would possibly be put in the same basket as this fool. He admitted to taking many other illegal drugs which never caused him this anguish. I guess this could be a warning to other idiots.

 

Climbing down off my soap box now.

 

Thank you for sharing those personal things, Intend. Very much appreciated. It puts another piece into the puzzle of who you are.

 

I was thinking.... you don't have a personal blog do you? Maybe that would be a way of establishing a group of friends here who could 'visit' if they knew where you were! It's good if you can read over someone's history in one place. Just a thought.

 

I'm off to a FM support group meeting now - even though Lizzy tried to convince me to stay in my dressing gown all day and write on here. She is evil. Don't listen to her.

 

Xana 

 

 

[[In...]]

Xana,

 

Have a good time at your meeting. I've been encouraged to write a blog by others. I'm often such a grouch however. Plus seems a lot of these blogs turn into flower pictures and not much is ever said after that.

 

Just realized Ive been in constant w/d since joining BB. Put a new thread in W and R. Hope I get some responses. I have some esteem issues. I often have to be a little off like I am today to do this. Often fear the "rejection issues."

 

Probably why I don't do a blog either.

 

Intend

[[KR...]]

Xana,

 

Have a good time at your meeting. I've been encouraged to write a blog by others. I'm often such a grouch however. Plus seems a lot of these blogs turn into flower pictures and not much is ever said after that.

 

Just realized Ive been in constant w/d since joining BB. Put a new thread in W and R. Hope I get some responses. I have some esteem issues. I often have to be a little off like I am today to do this. Often fear the "rejection issues."

 

Probably why I don't do a blog either.

 

Intend

 

I've never had a blog on here. I think it was due to the fact that when I joined here I was in such bad shape and I was writing a lot of scary and distressfull stuff. I didn't want to reflect back on what I was saying so I just kept my blinders on and looked forward the whole time. I got most of my support via the "chat room" during my most distressfull times. Didn't need a blog. I had real time friends and a stroke of a key that I could spill my heart to when I thought I was going to die from this. Having people in chat walking me through my darkest hours was a god send. It was a great feature of this site that is no more. Hopefully someday it will return when all the other priorities of this site are taken care of. I'm sure they will bring it back once they get a handle on all the other important issues at hand. I'm not bringing this up to stir the pot. I can just honestly say that the 'chat room" was 95% of my support system during my first 6 months of my cold turkey. I'm glad it was there when I needed it. I really think I would of been screwed without it. Having people to talk to in "Real time" around the clock was priceless. There was nothing better!

 

Rock

[[In...]]

Rock,

 

Well you know how you feel and what worked for you. I've never been in a chat room if that's the correct term. Seems like there would be people trying to "talk" over each other but that's an image on my part. Surely not accurate if what I've seen on tv is any comparison.

 

Your reasons for not doing a blog make total sense. All these blogs start out with a long, fairly interesting almost treatise like story. After that it does seem to go to less informational talk to people saying hi to one another and checking up on each other. Very nice really, but your situation as you describe it sounds like it was "not for the faint of heart."

 

Even some of my previous posting (which of course we can read back on) makes me wonder what I was thinking at the time. I think that's been a way for me to cope with all the crap I've been through and put myself through. The posting is probably good enough for me. I don't always like how some of the posts go over one another leaving some out, especially if pertinent questions are being asked, but it just is that way sometimes.

 

Ultimately, as much as I've posted, I know I have to live in my body with all this stuff happening, so posting is a coping technique.

 

 

Intend

I hope you re seeing more improvement each day.

[[Co...]]

But folks, even people I've never really posted with have warned me repeatedly against it over the last few days and really pushed the Valium. Well, I can't get the Valium, and I don't know how I would do on it anyway. I'm no spring chicken here, kids are 39 and 37, so I don't even know if I can really get totally off anything let alone Valium.

 

This should not be occurring. Substitution (usually with Valium) is just one path off benzodiazepines, with its own set of advantages and disadvantages. If you find a member is being overly pushy with any particular method, please direct them to A Short Overview of the Three Supported Methods of Benzodiazepine Withdrawal.

 

I spoke with Professor Ashton to seek some feedback prior to my publishing the Short Overview. I can assure you that not even Prof. Ashton thinks that her protocols should be 'pushed' upon anyone, and understands that other methods will work just as well for very many people. It should be remembered, most of Prof. Ashton's patients had already failed to quit benzodiazepines, and might be termed as 'tough cases'.

[[In...]]

Well,

 

I have really thought about trying to get Valium to get off this stuff, but I have to work with what I have as I said.

 

And my long time doc did, to my surprise, give me an Rx for it, but it was for 15 mgs per day. That doesn't even constitute a maintenance dose for the level of benzo I've been on for years. I got on her computer and showed her various equivalency charts which she did look at, but then discounted.

 

Ashton perhaps ought to put out some update on all this stuff as most of her info is also full of warnings. She has a particularly "concerning" one involving US docs using clonazepam as a sub for Valium and how that could be very problematic.

 

Well, that's the benzo I got Rxed, and I'm sure it is full of problems as with all the other  benzos.

 

Having said all this however, I'm sure Professor Ashton will do what she feels  necessary or not. She put in tons of time, broke major ground, then has been roundly ignored by almost the entire medical community.

 

And I have read of lots of people here on BB who've had their own problems with Valium. So it's not that universal panacea it's made to be, although many also seem to do fine.

 

Right now, I'll just feel lucky to get stabilized on K for awhile. If I have trouble tapering it, then I do. One step at a time.

 

Intend

 

[[rs...]]

RStud..... I'm not going to come at you with a bunch of nonsense comments like you've been posting here. Your probably not feeling to well and your just pissed that your still going through this W/D crap. The old me would call you out on this Sh*t. The new me feels bad for you. I hope you get feelin better. Take care.

 

Rock

 

 

I feel like the fox that got caught by the rooster in his hen house. I am still the fox though!! rstud

[Guest [...]]

In your dreams!

[[BY...]]

 

I feel like the fox that got caught by the rooster in his hen house. I am still the fox though!! rstud

 

Sometimes, having the last word isn't always the best word.

 

If this is just honest joking about, you may want to get to know a person a bit better before doing so.

 

You have been warned once previous to this, don't make it a third.

[[KR...]]

 

Rstud....The thing is your not a fox. Your just a guy that's either still in w/d or coming out of w/d poking around at people that don't feel well. You think its funny. I think its a bit twisted. And by the way. Calling girls on this thread 'Hens" is a bit degrading.

 

Rock

[[Ho...]]

Rstud, BYBYMatrix has warned you. If this continues we will apply a suspension to your account.

 

KRock, I appreciate your measured tone in this case but I would also prefer this point be dropped. Let's get this thread back on topic please.

 

 

Hope

[Guest [...]]

(Excuse my prolonging this but you have to excuse my tardiness on the grounds I am in Australia where we sleep when everything is happening. I am also up later than normal after waking a thousand times in the night due to a raging cold.)

 

Calling girls on this thread 'Hens" is a bit degrading.

 

Thank you Rock. Nice that you said that. Exactly what I thought.

 

Xana

 

[[KR...]]

Thanks Lizzy,

 

I totally agree with you. I stayed off the forum for about a month cause I couldn't take all the stress of my own situation of having to go back from Xanax to klonopin after having some trouble with it. And I have to admit that I had done some complaining about being on klonopin so that many who I was "blogging with" were very convinced that only Xanax would work, and if not that, then Valium.

 

So the stress was not really from the bloggers but because I was really in distress at the time and even ended up in the ER. But when I came back on BB, people were fairly shocked that I would try klonopin again. Well that first go round, I didn't have good doctor guidance, and it's better this time.

 

But folks, even people I've never really posted with have warned me repeatedly against it over the last few days and really pushed the Valium. Well, I can't get the Valium, and I don't know how I would do on it anyway. I'm no spring chicken here, kids are 39 and 37, so I don't even know if I can really get totally off anything let alone Valium.

 

People mean well, but we all just have to help ourselves. Could be the klonopin is a hard thing to get off. But that's my focus right now-getting back on. I think I will have to try to taper some for sure and I'm willing. Xanax folks sometimes think that's the only way. Well we kinda have only three choices here anyway-Xanax, klonopin, and Valium. I know there's other ones on the forum, but those are the three I often see the most used that are being tapered.

 

And of course, it's always easy to give out all this advice when one is directly tapering from something or crossing over to Valium as per Ashton. Hey, if I have trouble, I have trouble. I've been having it anyway.

 

Intend

 

Intend...Your post makes a lot of sense. When it comes to your health you need to be in charge of whats going on. I remember when I got out of detox I came home on 1,800mgs of Gabapentin. I was still a mess and some concerned members thought the gabapentin was the cause of some of my symptoms. MAybe it was. Maybe it wasnt. Well I wasn't in a good frame of mind so I listened to a few of them. I came off the 1,800mgs over about a week. Not smart at all. I paid the price. My symptoms went through the roof. A few other members told me they came off that amount fast so it would be no biggie. ya right!! People on this site mean well. I truly believe no one is trying to give out any information to intentionally hurt anyone here. Its just that what works for one might not work for the other. This is why giving out any advice is so tricky. People are so gullable while in withdrawl. Thats why this site goes to great means to try to protect its members. Its a crap shoot to say the least on what works and what doesn't from person to person. At the end of the day you have to sort of rely on your gut instincts on whats right and whats wrong. If it feels wrong than it probably is. You know you. No one else is in your mind. Sometimes you have to go through all the different avenues to realize this. Then one day your like your words above "People mean well, but we all just have to help ourselves". At the end of the day no one can go through this but you. You have to be the one to help yourself. Hopefully you have met a few people on here that are giving you some of the much needed support to make this journey a bit easier. Going through this alone is the absolute worst. Hope things are leveling out for you a bit.

 

Rock

[[pa...]]

Hi... Krock it right on... No one has the answer, and one must "listen" to their symptoms, how their body is reacting.  Its a tough go to have to do this.. but it is the right way.  Patty

[[In...]]

Thanks Rock. I think they are kind of leveling out. I had to do some research when my doc put me back on K.

 

She said to just drop the X, and go to the K the next day. But I got on the Internet just searching cause it was clear to me that X wasn't working for a reason. I ended up on Med Help where some guy named Ryan explained the difference between X (peak and fall) and K (steady state accumulation). And he said to expect about 3-14 days for the K to build up and supplant the X.

 

And then I started exchanging .25 Mg X for .25 Mg K. It took me 10 days to feel the K kick in. I did spend the 9th day in the ER from the X w/Ds, even dropping just the .25 Mg of X. And I felt the K move into steady state on day 14. So I've continued this exchanging since 6/5 and now I'm on the "end" of the 7th exchange.

 

It's taking awhile, but I'm getting there. But this is a highly individualized experience where only I could figure out what to do for me.

 

Intend

[[pr...]]

Hey Rock,

i am so glad to find your post.

i am brand new on here and at 62 days off all benzo's.

i had a similar w/d and detox experience as you...i left detox one day earlier AMA with prescriptions for phenobarbital, gabapentin, suboxone of which i am currently tapering off of slowly.

but came off of the pheno and gabapentin in a few weeks because they were making me crazing and/or so i thought but now realise this all was a benzo w/d and i went to ER after i was home from detox and felt better when they put 1mg.ativan in my vein and then got off all benzo's and soma.

i too did not think i was going to make it through this detox.

i got onto this site when i was feeling better and have taken some steps back and not feeling so good since i've been on here.

what is up with that?

my mother was only reading me the success stories while i was in w/d.

i hope i can monitor how often to go on to this site and which posts to read because my brain right now is trying to heal but still going off like fluorescant lights in there and still hallucinating when the spinning goes across the optical part of my brain.

i thought i would have to reinstate and i should have but chose to just spin and fly around.

there were times when i would just hold on to the couch and i would feel like i was on a windy beach.

i wish to go back to last week when i was still feeling really badly but some things were indeed changing and felt a little stronger to do things.

prettydaisys