The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Hello,

 

Day 25 of my hold and I really don't feel any change, I still have all the psychological symptoms, anxiety, intrusive thoughts, DP/DR etc...

 

The hardest thing is in the morning, the anxiety is unbearable and I do lots of disaster scenarios.

 

I tried many supplements, magnesium, lithium orotate, phosphatydilserine etc etc without success, I do deep breathing, meditation but it does not improve my symptoms.

 

I'm desperate even though I know the hold can last several months

 

Regards

 

Bici

[[va...]]

Hello,

 

Day 25 of my hold and I really don't feel any change, I still have all the psychological symptoms, anxiety, intrusive thoughts, DP/DR etc...

 

The hardest thing is in the morning, the anxiety is unbearable and I do lots of disaster scenarios.

 

I tried many supplements, magnesium, lithium orotate, phosphatydilserine etc etc without success, I do deep breathing, meditation but it does not improve my symptoms.

 

I'm desperate even though I know the hold can last several months

 

Regards

 

Bici

 

Hi bici, I've been holding for two and a half months and now in an awful wave. I will just hold of course. Think about it, what choice have we got? I find meditation is HORRIBLE for me. I mean my brain is jumping up and down all day so the last thing I want to do is shut my eyes in silence. I watch youtube videos all day unless I'm with people. This has saved me from going crazy the past three years. Usually things get better at least for a day or two so hang on to that. Oh! I have all the sxs you describe so rest assured you're not alone Best, val.

[[...]]

Hi Valiumnomore,

 

Sorry for your wave.

 

I actually think I've always had an anxiety disorder.

but I did not know it, I thought it was like that and that there was nothing to do, moreover it was not paralyzing.

The trigger for my panic attacks was the first lockdown and that's what led me to take a benzodiazepine.

 

When I had the panic attacks I didn't feel the anxiety like I do now, I think it's chemical anxiety

I would like to hear testimonials from buddies who have succeeded in reducing anxiety thanks to a long hold.

 

you say you're in a wave, what do you feel ?

 

Regards

 

Bici

[[ga...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

[[he...]]

I may have asked this already, but can I really benefit from a long hold if I had hit tolerance before starting my taper (chemical anxiety, fog, and insomnia)? I have been told that holding does not work if you hit tolerance, and you need to taper as quickly as you can stand so you don't prolong your suffering.

[[ga...]]

I may have asked this already, but can I really benefit from a long hold if I had hit tolerance before starting my taper (chemical anxiety, fog, and insomnia)? I have been told that holding does not work if you hit tolerance, and you need to taper as quickly as you can stand so you don't prolong your suffering.

 

I did not have this experience, but the concept makes sense. You'll have to decide how fast you want to go depending on how much worse you get as you taper. Sadly, you may not start to heal until you are all the way off. But you will heal.

[[va...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Thank you Gardener. Your words are so clarifying as usual. Long holds are months. One month is not a hold 😉

[[ga...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Thank you Gardener. Your words are so clarifying as usual. Long holds are months. One month is not a hold 😉

 

Thanks, VNM. I was telling my daughter about you when we walked this morning, what a good help you are to struggling buddies! I sure hope your back improves very soon! Back pain is such a pain!

[[va...]]

I may have asked this already, but can I really benefit from a long hold if I had hit tolerance before starting my taper (chemical anxiety, fog, and insomnia)? I have been told that holding does not work if you hit tolerance, and you need to taper as quickly as you can stand so you don't prolong your suffering.

 

Nobody can know for sure. I rushed for this reason three years ago and ended up in acute withdrawal, updosing and then holding for seven months. That bad benzo crash caused glutamate damage that hasn't healed and I doubt at this point that it ever will. Had I not rushed, I would've been off long ago and with a much healthier brain. Just my two cents.

[[va...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Thank you Gardener. Your words are so clarifying as usual. Long holds are months. One month is not a hold 😉

 

Thanks, VNM. I was telling my daughter about you when we walked this morning, what a good help you are to struggling buddies! I sure hope your back improves very soon! Back pain is such a pain!

 

Well tell your daughter I'm learning from you 😊

[[Di...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Gardener,

I love that quote from you doctor!!!  I totally agree!!!

Thank you!!!

[[ga...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Thank you Gardener. Your words are so clarifying as usual. Long holds are months. One month is not a hold 😉

 

Thanks, VNM. I was telling my daughter about you when we walked this morning, what a good help you are to struggling buddies! I sure hope your back improves very soon! Back pain is such a pain!

 

Well tell your daughter I'm learning from you 😊

 

Past tense. You learned. I am the old BB generation. You are the new. The people you are teaching now will one day be teaching others. And so it will continue until doctors stop messing people up. But as long as doctors are educated by the drug companies, it doesn't seem likely that this sad cycle will end.

[[ga...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Gardener,

I love that quote from you doctor!!!  I totally agree!!!

Thank you!!!

 

She was great. She moved back to MI to become a professor. Before she left, she said helping me taper was "an educational experience." Hopefully she passes that on to her students.

[[Di...]]

Hi Gardener,

That is great about your doctor I hope she uses what she learned from you to help others too.

🥰

[[va...]]

Hi, VNM! I could not meditate in silence either. I listen to guided MBSR meditations. I'm very sorry to hear about your back problems. I sure hope you get better soon.

 

Hi, everyone. I am popping in to say I'm glad to see this group started up again. I think it is important for newer members to know that mostly when we talk about long holds we don't mean weeks, we mean months. A few weeks would be a short hold. In my own case, I held for 6 months before I saw improvement. This group was very active back then. I was on every day while I held on and hoped for change. Two things helped me through that. First, this group and the other long holders reporting their improvements (after long holds). Also, my doctor's words, "The brain likes predicability." Every time we make a change, we stress the brain. Sometimes we like to tweak this or that with our doses thinking it will make things better. But the problem isn't so much the dose as how much change our brain has been forced to endure. But, given time and care, brains can heal, just like any other part of the body.

 

Thank you Gardener. Your words are so clarifying as usual. Long holds are months. One month is not a hold 😉

 

Thanks, VNM. I was telling my daughter about you when we walked this morning, what a good help you are to struggling buddies! I sure hope your back improves very soon! Back pain is such a pain!

 

Well tell your daughter I'm learning from you 😊

 

Past tense. You learned. I am the old BB generation. You are the new. The people you are teaching now will one day be teaching others. And so it will continue until doctors stop messing people up. But as long as doctors are educated by the drug companies, it doesn't seem likely that this sad cycle will end.

 

Thank you Gardener. Well, I might be able to say the right thing sometimes, but as for my taper, to be honest I'm not sure I'll never get off. I'm beginning to think I won't. I wanted to ask you about this. In summer 2019, three years ago, my taper (about the fifth time coming off), just crashed and I went into acute WD and I know you know what that is. I was writing in this forum trying to sound normal and nobody knew what I was going through. It was terrible and a miracle that I didn't end my life. At that point, I had come down to 0.80 mgs valium. Then I updosed to 2.50 mgs after a lot of doubts, and held for seven months. Then I started tapering again at a pace of 0.10 mgs a month, with some holds of four or five months. I was down to 0.90 and the last cuts had been ok. Suddenly, at 0.90, I am in a terrible wave, and with fears that remind me so much of 2019 although of course not in acute WD like back then, but of course I have to hold. Notice I crashed at 0.80 three years ago, and this now is 0.90. IDK, maybe my brain is just stuck in that level. I can't cut (trust me I can't), I have to hold, I've been holding now since April 4th and definitely not getting better. (Nearly three month hold now). I am very scared that I might me permanently damaged (long history of coming off valium and back on as I didn't know this would kindle me). I also feel that although I can't cut, maybe I'm in tolerance wd as well and won't ever stabilize even if I hold forever, so maybe there's no way out of this. I won't cut, because right now, although my sxs are very bad, I can still work and be a mom, and by no means will I ever make a cut again from a bad place, because I already learned where that could lead me. What do you think Gardener? I'm really at a loss. Since 2019 when I started holding, I knew holding and then tapering slowly was the answer for me, but right now, I fear this is it. That my brain is too messed up and I won't stabilize at this dose nor will I be able to cut. In the meantime, three years ago as you know my dr put me on 600 mgs a day gabapentin. Bad idea but the harm is done and now I'm stuck on that too. Sorry for the rant, I just need your advice and I didn't want to pm you. If you have time one of these days to give me your opinion I would appreciate it. I'm glad you're able to go out for walks with your daughter. That's the best thing that life has to offer us IMO.

[[...]]

Hi there,

 

Day 31 of my hold, no improvement but worse I'm not very well, very tired and I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack every minute with unbearable anxiety.

 

Are you sure it's not a tolerance? or are we going less well before getting better.

 

It's hard...

 

Regards

 

Bici

[[...]]

Hi there

 

For information, I cut 3% every 7 days from the end of August 2021 to May 2022 without holding and I think it was too much.

 

Regards

 

Bici

[[ga...]]

 

Thank you Gardener. Well, I might be able to say the right thing sometimes, but as for my taper, to be honest I'm not sure I'll never get off. I'm beginning to think I won't. I wanted to ask you about this. In summer 2019, three years ago, my taper (about the fifth time coming off), just crashed and I went into acute WD and I know you know what that is. I was writing in this forum trying to sound normal and nobody knew what I was going through. It was terrible and a miracle that I didn't end my life. At that point, I had come down to 0.80 mgs valium. Then I updosed to 2.50 mgs after a lot of doubts, and held for seven months. Then I started tapering again at a pace of 0.10 mgs a month, with some holds of four or five months. I was down to 0.90 and the last cuts had been ok. Suddenly, at 0.90, I am in a terrible wave, and with fears that remind me so much of 2019 although of course not in acute WD like back then, but of course I have to hold. Notice I crashed at 0.80 three years ago, and this now is 0.90. IDK, maybe my brain is just stuck in that level. I can't cut (trust me I can't), I have to hold, I've been holding now since April 4th and definitely not getting better. (Nearly three month hold now). I am very scared that I might me permanently damaged (long history of coming off valium and back on as I didn't know this would kindle me). I also feel that although I can't cut, maybe I'm in tolerance wd as well and won't ever stabilize even if I hold forever, so maybe there's no way out of this. I won't cut, because right now, although my sxs are very bad, I can still work and be a mom, and by no means will I ever make a cut again from a bad place, because I already learned where that could lead me. What do you think Gardener? I'm really at a loss. Since 2019 when I started holding, I knew holding and then tapering slowly was the answer for me, but right now, I fear this is it. That my brain is too messed up and I won't stabilize at this dose nor will I be able to cut. In the meantime, three years ago as you know my dr put me on 600 mgs a day gabapentin. Bad idea but the harm is done and now I'm stuck on that too. Sorry for the rant, I just need your advice and I didn't want to pm you. If you have time one of these days to give me your opinion I would appreciate it. I'm glad you're able to go out for walks with your daughter. That's the best thing that life has to offer us IMO.

 

Actually, my PMs are usually off now. And I'm not on BB every day any more. But when I come on, I check a few threads, so this is the best way to contact me.

 

It's good that you are functioning. I agree you don't want to do anything to upset that.

 

I wouldn't worry about the gabapentin right now. 600mg isn't that much. I tapered mine down to 300mg and then switched to tapering my Seroquel. I did find I needed to dose my gabapentin 3x/day to feel OK on it. Just a thought, if you're dosing once or twice/day.

 

I'm sorry, I don't have any experience with your situation. I do know begood tried to taper several times before she was successful. Her final, successful taper method was incredibly slow, a combination of micro-cuts and holds. Now she is off. Perhaps you could ask her about it? She is on her blog most days.

[[no...]]

Following *

[[no...]]

Been holding 5 Months, 1 Week, 6 Days, at 8mg Diazepam, was ready to make a cut in April to 7.5mg but a load of bloody road works started outside my window which will be going on until sometime this month so was forced to hold , have bad long tern symptoms both mental and physical, sometimes  a cut helps other time it does not but right now do not feel confident enough to make a decision as have stressful stuff to deal with on top housebound most of the time as simple movement makes symptoms even worse.

 

But do get out for a short walk on occasions when able but often spend months unable to do much at all I am in survival mode most of the time , and lately  spending more days close together having to stay in bed, and end up in bed after a walk most of the time too which means I'm in bed all day and night , sleeps not great either. I am  pissed that when I was ready to cut I had to hold due to road works and now feel stuck here in a bad place.

 

 

 

 

 

                                          Nova 

[[Ap...]]

Hi, I have been tapering at 7% every 2 weeks since mid May and was doing rather decently until the past few days. I now have had many intrusive thoughts, body trembling and great difficulty with sleep. I have realized I cannot make another cut, which I had planned for this Thursday. I am just too symptomatic to even consider it right now. A long term hold seems to make the most sense for me in the hopes of my brain catching up. Can anyone relate to me right now? I sure could use some encouragement right now. . Many thanks!

[[Ma...]]

Hi everyone!

I am holding since april 5th and the last month has been pretty good. I went camping with my family, took care of my father who did a stroke 3 weeks ago, had a colonoscopy, and still I was feeling good and was able to cope with all of that. But Monday I was back at work after 3 weeks off and now I am sliding in a wave… so discouraging!! I know a lot of things happen in my life during the last weeks, some stressful, and I know that my period are coming very soon, so maybe there is some reason for this wave. But I am angry, because I was planning to taper this week. And now I have to postpone it.

@VNM, I understand your feeling of being stuck. I was trying to explain that to my sister-in-law. We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t… But there is one thing that I believe, it’s that we are all able to heal, even if we have been through multiple drug taper, cold turkeys, etc… I know some people on SA that were massively poly drugged with multiple rapid withdrawal and they healed.

We have to keep faith and hope. Our body is a miraculous machine. It just need time, a lot for some of us.

Sometimes, when I am feeling bad, I try to look at me in a mirror and I tell to my reflection  that I love myself. Yes, it can seem crazy, but I say “I love you” to myself! Because enduring what we endure in the hope of returning to our old self, it is by far the best gesture of love we can have for ourselves, and we deserve it.

So don’t give up everyone! We will win!

Marie

[[gr...]]

hi all,

I am glad that this group has been revamped --- I did a long hold last fall (for about five months) and it made a big difference - not at first, in fact the first month or two of the hold, I actually thought I was getting worse, then in the 3rd month I began to feel a bit better.  I decided a slow taper at that point, and I mean slow -- less than 5% a month -- but after a super busy 5-6 weeks living life with a bunch of negative and positive stressors, I have hit another wall.  As much as I want off, I am thinking a hold right now might be what my brain is in need of..........it certainly doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to keep tapering (even slowly) as my symptoms increase daily ----- so, I think I am going to head back into another hold for a while and see how it goes.  hopefully, it will give my brain a needed rest and I can resume in a few months with my slow taper.  Hope everyone is doing okay and glad we are here for each other. 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Grace

Happy to see someone on this thread, I feel alone these days.

Sure holding is a good solution, I hope it will settle soon for you.

I was about to resume my taper this week after a 3 months hold,

But now I am facing a surprising and unwelcome wave. I don’t understand

because I have been stable for more then a month and I am still holding since April.

I am surprised by the severity of this wave too. It is very discouraging.

Anyway, have a nice day everyone, hopefully with not too much symptoms.

Marie

[[no...]]

Hi all, 6 months in and also hit a bad wave over the last few weeks but never been totally stable, but I cycle on a daily basis too, a good few hours on any given day day is usually followed by hell for a day or even longer but this waves been up and down for sometime now , and a lot more vicious than usual when it goes bad again 

 

 

                                                                        Nova