The Long Hold Support Group

[[...]]

Maybe others can add to this because I can only talk through experience. Having gone through both, it seems to me that tolerance and WD are two different animals. Tolerance happens when we reach a tipping point, when our gaba receptors have down regulated to the point where the benzo is no longer having a therapeutic effect and glutamate is running rampant. For me it was confusion, anxiety, insomnia. WD (from what I experienced in CT) is when we deprive what we've become physically and mentally dependent on. It was much worst for me: all the above symptoms and including physical pain, fear, paranoia, loss of coordination, the shakes, brain zaps, tinnitus..So it seems to me, in a sense, we are experiencing both tolerance and WD. Our receptors are still down regulated and it takes a long time for them to heal and we're going through WD by tapering. So the question I have is if we hold at a dose for a long time will that cause our receptors to down regulate even more? It's already reached a point where it says "no more". Does the body say "OK now I'm setting a new threshold and I'm going to down regulate even more"? From what I experienced I don't think that's the case because I believe we're healing while we're tapering, especially when we hold. But I could be wrong.

  Morning LWT l can't really pinpoint when l hit tolerance to be honest with you.l began noticing things very slowly and gradually agitation,dp/Dr , depression, lack of emotions,ocd, poor sleep, agoraphobia, poor balance, dizziness etc have to say they cycled throw just like withdrawal symptoms.I must admit l didn't really put two and two together for a very long time.l just knew something was very wrong.l would say similar to tapering in some regards however the biggest difference would definitely be intensity and other symptoms added in.

I would definitely not be holding as much if l didn't believe in healing l can actually see it in some respects.l am dreaming again,l can cry again however not totally back to normal yet,l can find the humour in things again, my mood swings have definitely improved, my depression has lessened etc.

The thing l do find is l don't stabilise as much as most here and l do believe that is due to tolerance.l know  there are only two ways to get out of tolerance and that is upping your dose or getting off.That is why l am surprised you ended up feeling so good after holding so long l wonder had you tapered any other drug before your symptoms started?

  Have you resumed your taper?l really hope it is uneventful honey.love you.X

 

Morning Stut, yes it's good to have emotions back, laughing,crying... It makes you wonder if we were zombies while on this stuff.

 

I'm not sure what you mean if "I tapered other stuff". Did you mean while I held for 2 years or at anytime? I tapered Paxil while I held after my CT.

 

I see you held for about 7 months in 2018? The question I have is did you feel better and then started feeling worst? That to me would be a sign of tolerance, that your gaba cells feel there's too much gaba and start down regulating again. I just don't see that happening. It's already reached a saturation point where it says "I can't handle any more benzos at this point". It seems that anything below that point like when we start tapering is WD not tolerance. But like I said I could be wrong as we're all so different.

 

Yes I did start my taper of my last 1 mg. I'm at .97 mgs so have a long way to go.

[[ja...]]

How do i know that I am not in tolerance already?  And will never stabilize? I am still shaking. Getting out of bed is an adventure for me.

When you hold long enough,  will all the symptoms go away?

[[...]]

How do i know that I am not in tolerance already?  And will never stabilize? I am still shaking. Getting out of bed is an adventure for me.

When you hold long enough,  will all the symptoms go away?

 

I'm sorry you're suffering so much Jasmine. I sure you'll stabilize because you've already come so far. Like others said I think it's from the hormonal changes that you're going through right now.

 

What worries me is when people think they're in tolerance and then feel they have to taper as fast as they can.

 

I can't guarantee that all your symptoms will go away because there's the kindling factor to consider. It's when people have tapered too fast and re-instated or CT'd several times making the CNS hyper-sensitive and thus making WD and tapering much harder. I know I've kindled and have been able to manage things just fine and you can to. We just have to be much more careful in our taper by going slow and holding when we have to.

[[Tr...]]

Hey Trishy, love and thinking about you TT 🙋🏼🙋🏼😘😘😘😷😷😷😷😷🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Hey Mary! Love and miss you too. Hope everything is good with you and Tim. Glad the hurricane didn't head your way 🙏

😘❤️

[[Tr...]]

Good morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

Morning Trish are you feeling any better pet?Are you still dealing with intrusive thoughts?l wonder did you perhaps overextend yourself when you went out shopping? Listen honey you know how this goes things come and go and given enough time it will settle down.l know it's frustrating and soul destroying but it is what it is and we just have to keep going regardless.You can do this honey and as for getting off well forget about that for now.You can only do your best.I have always said get as low as you can and that will be enough.l am willing you on honey.love you my lST X

Morning Suzy did you enjoy getting out to the pub legally 🤔😉.I can't wait to be like you 🙄. How's it going your end? Still feeling the gaba withdrawal symptoms?l hope you enjoy your day honey.love you.X

Morning Val welcome to my world damn dizziness has been my most predominant symptom.l have had it for years.l really hope it passes for you honey.l also get a lot of fullness in my ears but l really don't know if it is coming from my ears or not.Hang in there my lovely.love you.X

Morning Ginger how are you doing?l hope your symptoms have eased off? Thinking of you.love you.X

Morning Kit spoke to you over on the village blog.love you.X

Morning Lady Mary, Nova Miyu Bill NJ,GP, Olive Gilly Valley Meems Esperanza Intend Final Gypsy Troch Unknown Free and everyone here sending you my love.X

Hey twin!

How are you doing? Hope you're having awesome adventures

My intrusive thoughts have let up some. The past couple of nights I haven't had any. I hate when it happens but I guess it's par for the course in wd 😜 I've been keeping busy during the day babysitting and reading, crafting and shopping when I can get out. Overall I'm doing ok. I'm trying not to think of the mountain I have yet to climb and stay present dealing with one day at a time, not always easy though 😔

Looking forward to fall despite covid. I love that time of year and will make the best of it. The world is just so crazy Stut you never know one day to the next what's going to happen, everyday is a mystery in the times of covid.

You take care of yourself while out and about wear your 😷 and enjoy the open road!

Love you much!

LST ❤️

[[ja...]]

How do i know that I am not in tolerance already?  And will never stabilize? I am still shaking. Getting out of bed is an adventure for me.

When you hold long enough,  will all the symptoms go away?

 

I'm sorry you're suffering so much Jasmine. I sure you'll stabilize because you've already come so far. Like others said I think it's from the hormonal changes that you're going through right now.

 

What worries me is when people think they're in tolerance and then feel they have to taper as fast as they can.

 

I can't guarantee that all your symptoms will go away because there's the kindling factor to consider. It's when people have tapered too fast and re-instated or CT'd several times making the CNS hyper-sensitive and thus making WD and tapering much harder. I know I've kindled and have been able to manage things just fine and you can to. We just have to be much more careful in our taper by going slow and holding when we have to.

 

Did you CT valium and for how long?

I am on my phone. But there is a thread of a woman who have re instated 3 times and tapered off and is fine. I juts read this morning and had a lot of hope.

My shaking is gone after I took my 2mg of valium. It seems that the hormonal dip has passed.

I was shaking like a drug addict next to my husband and that did not phased him out. He just hugged me and said "want to go for a walk honey? " And it was 4 am. He told me that even shaking like this was a thousand time better than pre reinstatement.

If I could ask God to grant me the following wishes

Stabilize and be symptoms free

Feel.good and functional  on my meds

Can exercise again

When it is time to taper. Have a symptoms free taper

Be off and stay off

Heal at the end of the taper

Never re experience this again

 

 

Jwl, why did you taper paxil? Was it not helping you?

[[...]]

Jasmine, I didn't want to alarm you in your already fragile condition but sometimes it helps to consider all the possibilities of what may cause symptoms. Yes there are many who've re-instated multiple times and have done just fine and you may be one of them. I hope so.

 

Kindling is like any trauma your body goes through. Your CNS remembers it and sometimes overreacts. A good example is the car accidents I've been in. Now when I'm driving and if I have a close call, my body overreacts and sends all kinds of stress hormones and I freak out.

 

I tapered Paxil because I reached tolerance. SSRIs can be just like benzos if taken a long time

[[ja...]]

Jwl, Was the taper hard? How do you feel now without paxil? How long were you on it?

 

My last taper was my second time on benzo and it took me 1 year to taper the last milligram . It was really hard, I had to work around my pms. But I taper both valium and lexapro,  was able to exercise daily,  slept 7 hours, drank 2 cups of expresso a day and a gallon of black tea worked 45 to 50 hours per week on stressful deadline, took care of my 2 kids, dogs and house. Hubby was just very busy with his work.I was even able to go on a roller coater ride with them. I regularly ate asian food since I am asian.

 

Now I am a real vegetable.

I want to try NAD this time. I don't think I can do otherwise.

That woman, in her log said that it took her 7 weeks to have a good moment and stabilized after 3 months .

She tapered 12.5mg in 2 years, whcih I think is really fast

 

Did you have morning cortisol surge during your taper?

[[...]]

Jwl, Was the taper hard? How do you feel now without paxil? How long were you on it?

 

My last taper was my second time on benzo and it took me 1 year to taper the last milligram . It was really hard, I had to work around my pms. But I taper both valium and lexapro,  was able to exercise daily,  slept 7 hours, drank 2 cups of expresso a day and a gallon of black tea worked 45 to 50 hours per week on stressful deadline, took care of my 2 kids, dogs and house. Hubby was just very busy with his work.I was even able to go on a roller coater ride with them. I regularly ate asian food since I am asian.

 

Now I am a real vegetable.

I want to try NAD this time. I don't think I can do otherwise.

That woman, in her log said that it took her 7 weeks to have a good moment and stabilized after 3 months .

She tapered 12.5mg in 2 years, whcih I think is really fast

 

Did you have morning cortisol surge during your taper?

 

It's been 6 years since I tapered Paxil so it's hard to remember but I know it was while I was holding after re-instating after my CT and I was suffering all kinds of sx from that. So if I had sx it was probably mixed with my other sxs and I just didn't know it. I went through what you're going thro now and even worst. I was so glad I found BB and had people who encouraged me and told me it was normal. You too will get better over time.

 

I don't know that much about NAD although it's in my multi. I know it's a co-factor for metabolism but what exactly it does idk.

 

Yes I has morning cortisol surges when I first started tapering. Not only morning but all day long. Sometimes all I could do was to pace the house all day. They seemed to have gone away after I started micro tapering and holding.

[[St...]]

Good morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

Morning Trish are you feeling any better pet?Are you still dealing with intrusive thoughts?l wonder did you perhaps overextend yourself when you went out shopping? Listen honey you know how this goes things come and go and given enough time it will settle down.l know it's frustrating and soul destroying but it is what it is and we just have to keep going regardless.You can do this honey and as for getting off well forget about that for now.You can only do your best.I have always said get as low as you can and that will be enough.l am willing you on honey.love you my lST X

Morning Suzy did you enjoy getting out to the pub legally 🤔😉.I can't wait to be like you 🙄. How's it going your end? Still feeling the gaba withdrawal symptoms?l hope you enjoy your day honey.love you.X

Morning Val welcome to my world damn dizziness has been my most predominant symptom.l have had it for years.l really hope it passes for you honey.l also get a lot of fullness in my ears but l really don't know if it is coming from my ears or not.Hang in there my lovely.love you.X

Morning Ginger how are you doing?l hope your symptoms have eased off? Thinking of you.love you.X

Morning Kit spoke to you over on the village blog.love you.X

Morning Lady Mary, Nova Miyu Bill NJ,GP, Olive Gilly Valley Meems Esperanza Intend Final Gypsy Troch Unknown Free and everyone here sending you my love.X

Hey twin!

How are you doing? Hope you're having awesome adventures

My intrusive thoughts have let up some. The past couple of nights I haven't had any. I hate when it happens but I guess it's par for the course in wd 😜 I've been keeping busy during the day babysitting and reading, crafting and shopping when I can get out. Overall I'm doing ok. I'm trying not to think of the mountain I have yet to climb and stay present dealing with one day at a time, not always easy though 😔

Looking forward to fall despite covid. I love that time of year and will make the best of it. The world is just so crazy Stut you never know one day to the next what's going to happen, everyday is a mystery in the times of covid.

You take care of yourself while out and about wear your 😷 and enjoy the open road!

Love you much!

LST ❤️

Morning Trish doing ok this end just the usual crap but what can you do it ain't gonna kill me so big girl pants up and suck it up.l am no longer going to wait for my life to start actually a bit bored with that.lt is not easy but l would rather try.Galway is gorgeous which helps a lot.The weather not so much 😵.

.We only wear masks if we are indoors so l wear them when necessary.Trust me l social distanced long before covid so it isn't a big change for me 😏.l have my personal space and no one invades that 😡.

. Glad you are keeping busy honey I think too much time on our hands really doesn't help.l know the kids will keep you on your toes.

  Forget about how long this will take we can't change that so we must do what we must to get through.l have to say l am fed up to the back teeth with it but l have no choice.Instead of looking forward look back and see how far you have come.That is a massive achievement.

  Keep doing what you are doing honey and you will get to where you need to be.Give my bil a hug and kiss the babies for me.

Love you my lST X

[[St...]]

Maybe others can add to this because I can only talk through experience. Having gone through both, it seems to me that tolerance and WD are two different animals. Tolerance happens when we reach a tipping point, when our gaba receptors have down regulated to the point where the benzo is no longer having a therapeutic effect and glutamate is running rampant. For me it was confusion, anxiety, insomnia. WD (from what I experienced in CT) is when we deprive what we've become physically and mentally dependent on. It was much worst for me: all the above symptoms and including physical pain, fear, paranoia, loss of coordination, the shakes, brain zaps, tinnitus..So it seems to me, in a sense, we are experiencing both tolerance and WD. Our receptors are still down regulated and it takes a long time for them to heal and we're going through WD by tapering. So the question I have is if we hold at a dose for a long time will that cause our receptors to down regulate even more? It's already reached a point where it says "no more". Does the body say "OK now I'm setting a new threshold and I'm going to down regulate even more"? From what I experienced I don't think that's the case because I believe we're healing while we're tapering, especially when we hold. But I could be wrong.

  Morning LWT l can't really pinpoint when l hit tolerance to be honest with you.l began noticing things very slowly and gradually agitation,dp/Dr , depression, lack of emotions,ocd, poor sleep, agoraphobia, poor balance, dizziness etc have to say they cycled throw just like withdrawal symptoms.I must admit l didn't really put two and two together for a very long time.l just knew something was very wrong.l would say similar to tapering in some regards however the biggest difference would definitely be intensity and other symptoms added in.

I would definitely not be holding as much if l didn't believe in healing l can actually see it in some respects.l am dreaming again,l can cry again however not totally back to normal yet,l can find the humour in things again, my mood swings have definitely improved, my depression has lessened etc.

The thing l do find is l don't stabilise as much as most here and l do believe that is due to tolerance.l know  there are only two ways to get out of tolerance and that is upping your dose or getting off.That is why l am surprised you ended up feeling so good after holding so long l wonder had you tapered any other drug before your symptoms started?

  Have you resumed your taper?l really hope it is uneventful honey.love you.X

 

Morning Stut, yes it's good to have emotions back, laughing,crying... It makes you wonder if we were zombies while on this stuff.

 

I'm not sure what you mean if "I tapered other stuff". Did you mean while I held for 2 years or at anytime? I tapered Paxil while I held after my CT.

 

I see you held for about 7 months in 2018? The question I have is did you feel better and then started feeling worst? That to me would be a sign of tolerance, that your gaba cells feel there's too much gaba and start down regulating again. I just don't see that happening. It's already reached a saturation point where it says "I can't handle any more benzos at this point". It seems that anything below that point like when we start tapering is WD not tolerance. But like I said I could be wrong as we're all so different.

 

Yes I did start my taper of my last 1 mg. I'm at .97 mgs so have a long way to go.

Morning JWL well done on your taper off the paxil l know a lot of people who have as many problems coming off ad's so that is huge.l was wondering when you cted vicodyn?It has again many of the same withdrawal symptoms as Psych meds and symptoms can last as long.l know a lot of people say they don't again everyone is different.

I have to say yes l probably have found withdrawal symptoms have worsened as l have held it's really hard to distinguish the symptoms that cropped up in withdrawal definitely ease off with a hold however the original symptoms probably have been more problematic.

  I honestly don't really think much about what causes what l did research at the beginning and after that l let it go.l think sometimes on this forum than can be too much information and it can lead to a lot of anxiety.l think we just have to figure out what works for us and be prepared to change our strategy when necessary.

.l don't think tolerance should ever be used to scare people or indeed kindling for that matter.ln my opinion a symptom based taper is the best method for discontinuing any psych med.

I have everything crossed for you my love.l know it is hard to restart your taper however I believe your withdrawal symptoms will be very tolerable.love you.X

[[St...]]

I spent my whole day shaking and crying and I am rely convinced that I won't make it until this week end. So much anxiety, my teeth are chattering. My breasts are so painful. It is horrible. The SI are back.

Morning Jasmine why won't you make it to the weekend?lf you are considering harming yourself tell your husband and sister please.

You are having pms honey nothing that most women have to deal with even without the added impact of reinstating drugs and trying to stabilise.We all have bad spells and we have to just get through the best we can.love you.X

 

Stut,

Did you feel.good on 7.5mg of valium for 10 years?

Morning Jasmine if you read what l wrote to JWL you will see the answer to your question.Listen honey this is a benzo withdrawal support forum and most people are suffering here or we wouldn't be here.l think you should limit your time on this forum as you are scaring yourself.l know this is so frightening and frustrating however you will get to a stage when you feel better however it will take time.

I cannot tell what your future will be nor can you.l think you must start to work on your mental health honey that will definitely be the one thing that will help you the most.Now let things settle down and that is all you have to do for now.love you.X

[[St...]]

Good morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

I hope everyone is holding their own?Hang in there folks just do what you can and try to not let withdrawal get on top of you.

Love you all.Willing you on.X

[[Me...]]

Ladies, do you have a major increase in symptoms during your period?? This is my first period since my setback and I’m on day 4 of my flow. The first 2 days were decent, but anxiety hit yesterday and I got 0 sleep. Shaking and sweating all night. I have a sick knot in my chest and feel like I’m on the verge of a panic attack at any moment. I’ve heard PMS can make symptoms worse, but what about during your period?

 

I’m so depressed by all this. Just 2 days ago I had my first window in 4 weeks and could really feel like I’m recovering. Now I feel like I’m back on day 1. I don’t know how to go on like this. Please help, us this normal? I went to my OB weeks ago—labs came back normal. She never checked estrogen and progesterone because my periods were consist. She said they couldn’t be out of whack if that’s the case. This terrible anxiety has me thinking I need to go back and get more tests done.... I feel like something is wrong with me.

[[Tr...]]

Hi Melanie,

What you are experiencing is exactly what I experienced during my last period. Day 1-3 was fine. Day 4-5 was a train smash... symptoms intensified so bad, the anxiety and depression which I hardly have during the month came back... it was awful. Day 6 everything stopped and I was back to my baseline. It was unbelievable... the day after your period stops what you are experiencing will fall off... it’s so weird...

[[Me...]]

Thank you for your reply. It gives me something to hold on to. I hope it will fall away like you said. In the midst of this anxiety gripping me and 0 sleep, I feel like I’ll never heal and I have something serious going on.

 

How do you ladies sleep with the anxiety?? Mine is so bad, my brain and body won’t relax enough to sleep.

[[ja...]]

You are right stut. I should limit my time on this forum.

I am scared that if I hold.I won't stabilize because of tolerance. I am scared of kindling. I feel like the worst case on here. My shake is back and I am worried that it is not linked to my hormones but to tolerance.

So much fear.

[[Tr...]]

I lifted my bed 20 degrees up by placing cushions from my garden chairs under the mattress and am sleeping much better now. I read it helps with anxiety to sleep a bit up.

[[Me...]]

Thank you, I’ll try that. I’ve gotten 3 hours of sleep over 2 days, so feeling super awful and depressed today. I keep reading this thread to fully convince myself that this is anxiety spike is normal in WD around our period. Still seems hard to believe right now. It feels too intense.

[[Ta...]]

Melanie,  It is horrible.  I even reinstated shortly after a CT on Diazapam.  I'm really stable on my dose and my period still sucked.  I was in bed any moment I had and my emotions were so all over the place. 

[[...]]

Stut, you're right some things are best left unsaid. We can only do what we can do regardless of what's causing what.

 

I'm sorry if I may have scared you Jasmine. You will stabilize and no you won't reach tolerance. I don't know what else I can say to persuade you

[[Me...]]

TallGolfer, I’m so sorry. Did it get better with time for you? How many days until you feel relief? I have 2-3 more days of flow.

[[tr...]]

Melanie...sadly this is a very common benzo thing to have pms and/or periods from hell. I can totally relate to you as each time it has felt like a truck hit me..feels like thrown back into acute.

BUT//my last period was def an improvement..so much better that it felt like I was waiting for a bomb to drop that just...didn't. I felt normal benzo rough..a wave yes..but not like acute.

But I'm due again in a week...hoping this new trend continues! But I will still clear my calendar and expectations in case the "bomb" drops again.

 

Isn't this so insane?!!!

[[ja...]]

Jwl, no you haven't scared me . The information on here is just confusing. For my last taper, I wasn't registered on here yet and wasn't that scared.

Some reach tolerance,  some don't.

I don't have other choices than to hold anyway until I feel strong enough to taper.

[[ja...]]

I think I took a 5mg pill instead of a 2mg pill in the middle of the night.

I am worried to go I to withdrawal if this is the case. It was dark.