Rehab

[[Sp...]]

Still holding up 52~ hours after my last 5mg Diazepam tablet. Anxiety is up a tad, but nothing that's not managable. I'm still fully aware I'm in the danger zone as far as going into acute wd any time, but so far things have remained calm. I do take some positivity from the fact I am coming down from 2.25mg Alprazolam, and my Diazepam dosage was never higher than 20mg/day on the 10 day taper, and I'm now 4-5 days out from dosages of 10 mg/day which is roughly equivilant to 0.5mg Alprazolam/day. Of course, Diazepam is tricky with the insane half life, and active metabolites, but the fact I'm 51 hours out from acute dosing and anxiety/wd sx are minor so far can be seen as a positive, imo.

 

17 days to go after today, so time is flying by pretty quickly, and nearly to the middle point. If by some luck I do make it through this with only moderate wd sx, I will stay the course and not reinstate Alprazolam, even at a low dosage.

 

Continue on the gabapentin at 1800mg/day. Only took 1500mg yesterday as I felt fine in the evening and cut out 300mg. I have made them aware that I have past experience with Gabapentin for rls, and that I do experience nerve pain/anxiety sigh abrupt wd, and I would like around a month's supply when I leave to taper off of. I'm positive the Gaba is playing a role in keeping things calm so far. But, I have taken Gabapentin as recently as July in similar dosages for rls before tapering off, so I should have some tolerance to it. Other explanations for lack of wd severity so far, possibly mirtazepine that I've been on for 2 months now for depression at 30mg? Remeron is a strong H1 antagonist, potent 5ht2a and 5ht2c antagonist. A quick look in Google brings up some (mice/rat) studies of antagonists at those receptors being beneficial to benzo wd. Likely? No, but it is possible. Mirtazepine has also been shown to influence gaba/glutamate levels in the NAC to some extent.

 

It's clear from working over the literature (I wasn't expecting this abrupt cold turkey to happen) NMDA is a player, but not the main target in acute benzo withdrawal as far as glutamate. AMPA is. It would appear an all out antagonistic action at NMDA in acute could even be detrimental in certain situations. Unfortunately, very few AMPA antagonists exist. Theanine is an option, but I've had poor reactions in the past to the supplement. Topamax is an option if wd gets unbearable to try, as it knocks out AMPA, but at the expense of often inducing depression as well. I'll keep it in the back of my mind if things get rough to ask the Dr about.

 

So, the goal as far as supplements go isn't really to knock out nmda. My stack is mostly centered around neuroprotection from increased Glutamate, to increase mitochondria strength; limit cell damage/death which can then spill out more glutamate and assist in any glutamate storm. That's about all I can do at the moment supplemental wise.

 

Ubiquinol (Coq10) 300mg/day will be arriving later today

 

Going to continue Magnesium Citrate as it does assist sleep, but lower dosage to 150mg/night

 

Men's Alive multi- taken for years, see no reason to change now.

 

Taurine 1000 mg 2x/day- Mostly for neuroprotection from Glutamate, is slightly relaxing with a small effect on gaba

 

Vitamin C- 500mg 2x/day Antioxidant support

 

AHCC- 500mg 3x/day immune support

 

Alpha Lipoic Acid- Again, solid evidence of neuroprotection from glutamate

 

Propanolol- 10mg 3x/day has helped BP, pulse still running too high.

 

Trazadone- 50mg as needed for sleep. Helps sleep, rebound headache the next day is wicked from metabolite, actually just took some Ibuprofen, first time in around 10 days, because of how severe my headache is today.

 

At the moment-

 

Anxiety- 6/10

Depression- 5.5/10

Tremors etc- 2/10

Headache- 7.5/10

Body pain- 3.5/10

 

Continue to take things hour by hour, and will wait and see how things play out. I hope everyone else is doing well.

[[Sp...]]

Zinc is better than magnesium for what you want it for. Also, for heart palpitations and cardiac awareness Dr. Shipko recommends 200 mg CoQ10 twice a day. For muscle tonus he recommends chelated magnesium-calcium 2:1, 1000 mg per day. Some people have had severe reactions to pure magnesium, I don't know if calcium prevents that.

 

On the fence about Zinc. It appears AMPA is the receptor you want to target in acute wd, and I've come across some literature showing zinc increasing AMPA activity. Probably will hold off for now. Regarding Coq10, this is an excellent situation to deploy it for mitochondrial protection. Am utilizing ubiquinol for the enhanced absorption

[[Pa...]]

You've come a long way and you're still there, I admire your commitment.  You've done a great deal of research, educating yourself about this process is a good tactic for making it through this, I feel it dampens the fear just a bit.

[[Sp...]]

You've come a long way and you're still there, I admire your commitment.  You've done a great deal of research, educating yourself about this process is a good tactic for making it through this, I feel it dampens the fear just a bit.

 

 

Thanks. I'm at peace with everything going on. It does really no good to dwell on the what if's here, besides having a plan or two in place in case things do go haywire. I'd love to be a success story of rehab while benzo dependent; despite the fact I don't have an issue with benzos, because I've honestly seen very few success stories this route. We shall see.

[[Sp...]]

L-Theanine antagonizes AMPA and kainite receptors. On the other hand it is NDMA agonist, so that would necessitate e.g. microdosing memantine to prevent NDMA agonism, but I'm sure you're already uncomfortable with the drug cocktail you're ingesting. I must admit that I've had the best experience with diazepam-based slow taper with no other drugs or supplements as Prof. Ashton suggests (and I was almost symptom-free). Since my setback I'm basically in a cold-turkey state and I've found that most things worsen the symptoms, and things that work to lessen them are dangerous drugs in and of themselves (and you're basically turning yourself into a guinea pig live).

 

It's at the top of my list if needed to aquire overnight. I'm now at 73~ hours off the 10 day taper, still no wd sx. 4.5 days from where they tapered me to 5mg. Coming from a much higher Alprazolam dosage, I'm cautiously optimistic that potentially this will be limited to moderate wd sx. I expected to at least see some breakthrough symptoms from the decline in Valium dosage. As things are going okay at the moment, I'm going to keep things as limited as possible. Next 5-10 days will be crucial as far as acutes go.

[[Sp...]]

We are at 75~ hours from last Diazepam dosage.

 

Taurine had a very negative effect yesterday morning/rest of day on my depression and am going to discontinue use unless needed for wd sx/support.

 

Magnesium is the same way, seems to drag my mood down the following day taking it, and has been that way for years. I didn't take it last night, and will also discontinue unless needed.

 

Skipped Trazadone last night and slept better.

 

Continue on the propanolol and Gabapentin. Propanolol has moderated my blood pressure. A reading about 15 minutes ago was 112/80. Pulse is also improved into the 80's from running around 100.

 

At the moment,

 

Anxiety- 5/10

Depression- 5.5/10

Headache- 4.5/10

Tremor- 1/10

Body pain- 2.5/10

 

Basically continues to be a waiting game, but I am pleased with the fact I'm not seeing breakthrough sx from 10mg Valium dosages around a week back. I fully expect to see sx appear as the Diazepam continues to exit, but if this can be kept to a moderate level my intention is fully to complete the program and discontinue Alprazolam usage.

 

We shall see, one hour at a time.

[[Pa...]]

I've seen many members draw the same conclusion about magnesium, I'm glad you're paying attention. 

[[Sp...]]

I've seen many members draw the same conclusion about magnesium, I'm glad you're paying attention.

 

My guess is the Magnesium and/or Taurine

 

Propanolol is also notorious for inducing depression, and is a weakish antagonist at 5ht1a. My BP is running today at 112/70-75. I'm going to cut down my propanolol to morning/night and cut the 1pm dosage for now.

 

Still feel about the same, despite lowish mood, 79~ hours out.

 

 

[Guest [ba...]]

When will they begin to remove the gabapentin?

[[Sp...]]

When will they begin to remove the gabapentin?

 

No timetable for that. I'm still stable 96~ hours out. If I make a week without any acute sx popping up, I'll start to taper down the gaba.

[[Sp...]]

We're sitting at around 103~ hours last dose of Diazepam. Things continue to remain stable. I may feel a slight notch above yesterday mood wise. Still no real withdrawal sx, just baseline anxiety/depression. I was expecting to start seeing something by now a week out from 10mg Diazepam which is well below my recent Alprazolam dosing. I have 15 days remaining here after today. I will ride this out with the Gabapentin to 10 days post last Valium dosing. If things are still stable then, or at least tolerable, I will begin to slowly start tapering the Gabapentin down. So far, I'm pleased with the progress, we will see how the next few days go.

 

At the moment..

 

Anxiety 5/10

Depression- 4.5/10

Headache- 4/10

Tremor- 2/10

Body pain-4/10 (3 mile walk along the beach yesterday, gotta get back in shape)

[[Sp...]]

Just a quick post. 5.5 days post Diazepam discontinuation. Everything remains the exact same as previously.

[[Sp...]]

7 days out from last Diazepam. A bit of an anxiety bump yesterday and today, but quite minimal. No physical wd sx. Plan remains the same to begin to taper off of Gabapentin in 3 more days. Feeling pretty good about things overall.

[[Pa...]]

I left AMA my first night in rehab, they didn't know anything about tapering me off and neither did I but I knew I was sick and getting sicker by the minute after I quit cold turkey.  One of the reasons I left was because if I was going to suffer regardless, I wanted to do it at home.  I'm amazed you're sticking it out given my experience but it sounds like your treatment is superior to what I was offered. 

[[Sp...]]

I left AMA my first night in rehab, they didn't know anything about tapering me off and neither did I but I knew I was sick and getting sicker by the minute after I quit cold turkey.  One of the reasons I left was because if I was going to suffer regardless, I wanted to do it at home.  I'm amazed you're sticking it out given my experience but it sounds like your treatment is superior to what I was offered.

 

I'm sticking it out. I'm now 8+ days off Valium. Anxiety is up a tick, but overall I'm feeling good all things considered. Very thankful.

[[Sp...]]

About the same 9+ days in now. Anxiety still up a notch, and a bit of aches and pains. Nothing major. Things are looking good so far

[Guest [ba...]]

Still 1800 gaba?

[[Sp...]]

Just an update, I lost track of this.

 

I've been benzo free for 3-4 weeks. Urine clean from diazepam for around 2.5 weeks. I have a few gabapentin capsule remaining from my script I use as needed (300-600mg) but have gone several days without gabapentin. Anxiety is generally the same as when I was on Xanax. No real withdrawal ever occurred, and I'm basically back to baseline now working on addiction/depression.

 

So, I consider this a success. Moving on to the other issues currently. I'm surprised, shocked to be honest, it wasn't worse. Maybe I'll get some post stuff, but I'm sort of doubting it. Never touching a benzo again.

[[Pa...]]

This is good news, I'm happy you may have dodged the benzo bullet.