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Hi all,

 

I'm making this post as a cry out for help. Excuse if I make any mistakes as I'm having trouble holding my phone right now my hands are shaking so badly.

 

I have lived a very stupid past five years of my life. I had a several alcohol problem from 2015-2016 where I was drinking a fifth of vodka most nights. I have still had isolated slip ups the past few years, and I absolutely am a person who can not drink, but luckily they have been few and as of this writing I haven't consumed alcohol for 90+ days and have had stretches of a year plus at times. My other issue the past few years has been the very accessible world of research chemicals. Tianeptine I had a severe problem with which I have successfully quit back in May (never do, it's the worst opiate withdrawal you can imagine) and phenibut I have used on occasion for the anti anxiety and antidepression effect. I'm sure a few of you are aware of these products.

 

Let's cut to the situation I am in. I started Xanax in September or so of 2016 at 0.5 mg 3 times a day. Since 2018 I have been on 1mg 3 times a day. At the time I was so emotionally torn up I did not take the time to research the mess I was getting myself into, and the doctor neglected to tell me the dangers. I have always taken Xanax therapeutically and while I have told others I took more than normal it was to disguise the use of some other chemical (usually phenibut or tianeptine) I've never had an issue with it, and honestly now days it feels like a sugar pill as I know my tolerance is so high. Before all the below happened, I had decided to make a serious taper attempt off of Xanax and had lowered my dosage to 2.25 to 2.5 mg in the space of about a month. I was generally doing okay anxiety wise, but depression which I've had for years and anhedonia (lack of motivation) drove me back to using phenibut. A few nights ago I used way too much phenibut and had agreed prior that if I slipped up again I would attend a rehab. I had no idea the dangers of going to rehab while being on long term benzo usage (with phenibut added on) and the type of inhumane treatment they provide. I own up to what I did, it was my mistake, and I hurt others around me which I feel deeply bad about. I was only given 2 days to find a rehab center (and I'm sure a few of you know how time consuming and difficult it can be to find a decent place that you can imagine being in 30 days.

 

I flew from home (Orlando) to LA to a rehab center in San Clamente. The facility is very nice, and it was expensive which my dad paid for and I am very thankful. The staff is very nice as well. Unfortunately, the program is your typical rapid taper with Valium to nothing in 6 days. I am coming off between 2.25 mg and phenibut, and they started me on Valium 5mg 3x per day. I've read most sources quote 5mg Valium to 0.25-0.5 alprazolam. Most say closer to 0.25. So essentially my dosage equivilant has been cut to around 1mg Xanax which explains the state I am currently in plus coming off phenibut. The doctors, while nice, obviously do not have as much experience in benzo withdrawal as with alcohol or opiates. Most everyone here is a recovering alcoholic (which I am too).

 

This was forced on me by my roommates, and my father, but I kept my word and went. I tried and tried to find a place who would allow me to continue my xanax taper (knowing all too well the dangers of a rapid detox from benzos) but none would.

 

Here is what is going on where I'm currently at-

 

I have spoken to two different doctors over telehealth. I tried to plead my case how strongly I felt against doing a rapid taper and all of the absolute horror stories of the months and sometimes years of pain, severe anxiety, depression, that can follow. They both assured me that I'll be fine and functioning after this quick detox and able to start participating in the meetings, activities etc. Here is their current plan for me:

 

I have taken Valium since day 1 (Monday night) at 5mg 3x per day. The first dose of Valium surprisingly put me asleep but likely because I had taken my xanax earlier (morning) in the day. I felt fine the first night. Yesterday, around 10am the bottom completely fell out. I woke up and got out of bed and my legs completely gave out on me. Also felt like I had a severe case of the flu, my entire body hurt, pins and needles in my hands and feet. My anxiety (diagnosed along with ocd) was higher than its been in years. My blood pressure yesterday morning was as high as 150/108 and they had to give me a clonidine to bring it down. I slept horribly last night, possibly an hour or two at a time.

 

Since that time, they have prescribed me vistaril, seroquel, and gabapentin which they say they may increase as high as 600mg twice a day eventually after this "detox" is complete. Tomorrow I am lowered to 2 5mg Valium, and then the same the next before going to 5mg for two days and then stop. Obviously I'm sure a few of you can speak to how stupid this type of fast taper is, not to mention potentially dangerous if I'm not on anti seizure meds which I'm sure I will be. They've also said I will be going on anti psychotics (yes, I'm well aware what I'm headed into, hallucinations and possibly  Psychosis)

 

I did ask how long they would extend the taper and they said 10 days, and occasionally a few more if I'm still experiencing anxiety. I full well know the long half life of diazepam and that withdrawal will likely not hit me like a train until a few days after. This post is for a couple of reasons: to give the community info on a rehab benzo detox, and my father is the one who paid for my treatment, and obviously believes the doctors and what they're telling him that I'll be perfectly fine. Hopefully a few of you can post about experiences in rehab with concurrent benzo use, and he can realize the danger this place is sending me into.

 

Let me be clear: I own up to what I did. It was stupid, childish, and I have to learn I cannot fix my various mental issues with addictive substances. Even though I've never done an illegal drug in my life, I have done addictive chemicals. That has to change or I've got a not so bright road ahead. I say I'll get a psychologist for help and I never do it, I need to grow up and I'm very quickly realizing that

 

Some questions:

 

What would you do in my situation? I'm very well versed on the dangers of a protracted months long withdrawal with what is happening here. I can probably extend the taper to 10-14 days considering I'm already having fairly severe withdrawal symptoms. That will leave about 2-3 weeks before I could reinstate my xanax and pray that it works.

 

- what are the chances, estimates, that a reinstatement would be successful after that long? Could I or should I reinstate on the same dose? 2.25mg. Or try and reinstate lower?

 

- I have about 150 0.5mg at home. My psychiatrist who was helping me with the taper (who I was lucky to find prescribe in Florida with a history of being on suboxone and alcohol problems) I have no idea if he will continue to see me. If not, what type of doctor would be willing to prescribe a taper and be understanding in a situation such as mine? If I am able to find a doctor, I would greatly prefer to switch to a diazepam taper as that seems the more logical choice.

 

- If I stay in this program, is there honestly any chance of success? Everything I've read are complete horror stories of how this ends after the rapid taper is over. They keep telling me everything is going to be perfectly fine.

 

Most of all, I own up to the mistakes I made and I'm responsible for being in this situation. Do I think that the punishment should be potentially months or years of suffering? I don't know. I also suffer from a condition called NDPH (look that one up) but basically I've had a 24/7 headache for 21 years from when I was 13 (34 now) and I can't even imagine the effect a protracted withdrawal would have on that. Just today, my pain level is the highest it's been in several years. My current symptoms are pins and needles in hands and feet, anxiety 8/10, headache 9/10, and general weakness. I'm going to keep this thread open as a way to log my process and have input on any suggestions. I don't want any feeling sorry for me, this is my fault, but I realize the danger here.

 

- is there any chance I can make it through and be functioning off of a 2.25mg jump?

 

- it took a lot to write this out, but I just had my diazepam taper and anxiety let up for a bit to be able to type this out.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.

 

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Kind of sounds like you want for us to help you invalidate your participation in this program and the agreement that you made with your father/roommates. 
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To be completely honest it is completely retarded to hook someone to quetiapine and gabapentin in order to get them off benzos (it's good that they haven't added an SSRI and baclofen into the mix). The fact that these drugs aren't controlled substances doesn't make them less dangerous or habit-forming than benzos. The best way to get off of benzos is a slow, symptom-controlled taper, with no adjuvant drugs or supplements.
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Hi, I went to rehab at too and survived a cold-turkey off of 2.25 mgs of Klonopin. I do not recommend cold-turkey or rapid taper, I did it the hard way because I'm a stubborn fool. I'm also an addict and survivor, you can DM me if you want.

 

Anyway, slow taper is recommended. It would be great if they would wean you slower and you could use the remaining to finish a long taper... but seeing as you're out in Cali now you may be at the mercy of the facility.. Either way, I cold-turkeyed and didn't have anything supplement the withdrawal and I survived and recovered. You will too-  :angel:

 

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I wish you the best of luck getting through this period. It would seem that you are stuck in an extremely testing position.

 

My recommendation to you, if you get through the rehab stint, is to not go back on Xanax. If you're going to go back to benzos, at least take the opportunity to switch to diazepam so you're not experiencing the ups and downs of withdrawal between Xanax doses. That would be my recommendation. Survive the rehab stint then when you get out, start on a daily dose of diazepam that is enough to cover the more severe withdrawal symptoms but doesn't leave you feeling good. Perhaps 10mg diazepam. Then I would take that 10mg diazepam for as long as it takes to feel stable, no messing around with other drugs and no changing the dose. If you can somehow scrape through this rehab spell and then keep it steady like I described, taking 10mg diazepam every day for 6 months, no more and no less and no other drugs... if you can do this, you will be in a much better position than you are now, and that is guaranteed. Then you might be ready to start a slow taper to finish the rest.

 

Good luck. Plenty have been in a worse position than you and got through it.

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Kind of sounds like you want for us to help you invalidate your participation in this program and the agreement that you made with your father/roommates.

 

No, I am willing to keep my word which is why I came. The issue is that it's obvious that the vast majority if not all of these rehab centers use this rapid taper approach, which leaves the person basically in a state of delerium after whatever small taper they are on is over. If you're in that state, how can you get anything positive from the rehab like the classes etc? I fully realize and accept I need help with my addiction issues. The issue here is that I don't have an addiction issue with Xanax, it's a dependence. I've never felt good from Xanax and all it does it stave off with withdrawals. I'm basically looking for input in how to stay sane through this process and any input.

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Update Day 3:

 

I do take mirtazepine last two months at 30mg. It's helped my depression a bit but whatever they've put me on here has completely canceled that out, or more likely it's the withdrawal. The seroquel was horrible. Slept for maybe 2 hours and then awake with insomnia the rest of the night. I have now slept maybe 4 hours the past two nights and that's with 15mg Valium. Today I am reduced to 10mg. To be blunt, and I'm not one to overexpress how I feel because I deal with chronic pain, I feel the worst I've felt in years. My head pain is severe, my entire body hurts, the pins and needles, ears ringing at times, blurry vision. Almost starting to get a feeling of not really being here as I cannot sleep. I don't understand what this program expects to do with me? If I'm this bad after only being here 3.5 days, it's not going to get any better as the dose decreases and I head into heavier withdrawal? How can I participate in classes when I feel like this? I'm basically stuck in bed on my phone watching the minutes go by. They say they could extend the taper to 10-14 days but I fail to see how that helps besides delaying the suffering. Also, the shaking, my hands can't stop shaking while typing this

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Oh man, I'm sorry for what you're going through.

 

My hunch is that extending the taper will help and not just delay the suffering... but it won't help much and you'll still feel terrible. Basically every bit of Valium you can get before you're cut off should help in theory.

 

I doubt the program cares that you're not in any state to learn anything. That's not what's important (£$).

 

Hang in there mate. The big lesson is learned just by being there - avoid at all costs in future. Try to take in as much as you can that may help with your addictions but really you're in survival mode at the moment. Don't let it add to your worries if you can't take anything in. It can't be helped.

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I was able to talk them into adding an extra Valium today (20mg) and for the first time since 10am Tuesday I feel somewhat alright along with a 300 gabapentin. Will take 20 again tomorrow, and then it's down again from there.

 

I have spoken with my father about what's going on, and he doesn't intend to force me to stay here if I go totally manic after they stop the Valium. He realizes the state I'm in that I'll be unable to benefit from the program to begin with. The hope is that this experience knocks some sense into me to stay away from addictive substances. Suck it up for once, live healthy, and do it the long and hard way.

 

Quick question: how long after the Valium withdrawal can I expect to start having major issues? Coming off of 2.25mg Xanax, (3mg 2 yes, 1.5 2 years) are we talking major, major problems? Everything I'm gathering on here says I'm in for a stay in hell, but I realize the people who have minor withdrawal likely never post. I'm just trying to get some idea here, I realize no two humans will have the same reaction. I would describe my general health as average, and I am youngish age 34.

 

- Valium 5 is equal to Alprazolam 0.25? I've also read 0.5. AM says 0.25. So basically with alp half life, that drug is out now or close. I've been taking the equiv of 0.75 alp? Does the half life and build up make much difference in therapeutic effect/wd?

 

- I would love to complete the program, it's actually a really nice program and people, and I do believe I can benefit from it if I'm in shape to do it. They are willing to give me up to 1600mg gabapentin which is somewhat helpful, but I have used it in the past around the dose for rls so I'm not sure how effective it will be. Likely not very, but there have been a couple studies floating around of it being . But, if I'm in a horrible state and have to bail out for my own health and safety, what are my options for reinstatement? Is there any hope at all after being on a lower dose benzo for several days I could jump back on the rest of my Xanax at say 0.75mg or somewhere in there and do like a 120 day slower taper? Obviously this wouldn't be painless, but if it was successful it would likely be less painful than what I'm going through now. I have around 90mg in my possession. I would obviously like if my old Dr would accept me back to continue a taper, especially a switch to Valium to taper at a lower dosage, but I had told him I was not using any substances (I wasn't at the time) and he knew about my addiction history and still took me on so it's 50/50 at best if possibly the support of my family is they can realize how dire this situation is, could help convince him to give me another chance. Outside of that, living in FL, and the national database now, docs will have access to all my history and this rehab visit. I'm sure it'll take a lot of work to find someone willing to work with me. I'm just trying to come up with other options if I'm unable to move to Valium for a long term taper.

 

The seroquel I am stopping. Gave me horrible depression last night. I will reinstate the trazadone despite the fact it irritates my chronic headache the next day. No other meds besides gaba 300 x3. Gaba I realize has its own withdrawal, and I have not experienced in past, but was always on alp at the time.

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I'm glad that things at least sound a little more positive. I firmly believe you're serious about putting in the work to get past your addictions and back to a normal life. That's so important because it's the minimum input required from you.

 

In an ideal world, you'll be stabilised on Valium and allowed to do a slow taper under your doctor's supervision. If that happens, please please please throw the Xanax away as a matter of urgency. I understand that it may be more likely that they taper you down to nought. In that case, there tends to be a 2-3 day delayed reaction. It'll hurt but the other meds will mitigate some of the symptoms. I think the combination of extreme withdrawal with a combination of sedating medications on top, might make you feel detached from everything and I wouldn't be surprised if you have difficulty expressing yourself. It could be like that for a while. Slowly removing the meds will help, in time. If I were you, I'd see it like you had a drug problem that's caused you a brain injury and you're taking these meds to cover up the pain while it heals. After some amount of time, you'll be in a position where you can safely remove a med, going at a steady pace. Personally, it had to be med-free for me. I believe that being dependent on a med is bound to cause issues in the long term. Perhaps you are more tolerant towards meds than me, but I hope you'll agree that it's not a good long term plan to have multiple meds.

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@[Sp...]

 

First and foremost, I'm terribly sorry for all the pain you're going through  :'(

 

I second what most people here suggested. It would be better for you to stick to Valium and stabilize, and then taper slowly from there. Xanax has an incredibly low half-life. When I take it, 15 minutes after the intake, it stops working.

 

I was also in rehab just about a month ago and it was super expensive, but the staff really didn't know how to handle the situation and did a rapid detox. They took me from 200 mg diazepam to 90 INSTANTLY, then in a few days down to 30 mg. Surprisingly, I suffered no withdrawal symptoms and I stayed there for 2 weeks. I still don't understand it...

 

I'm really sorry about your predicament - it's so hard to find a decent doctor who knows how benzodiazepine taper is done, or a decent rehab clinic. You seem to be taking a lot of different meds - I'm not sure how healthy that is.

 

Sometimes I wonder if all these symptoms we experience are part of tolerance withdrawal. GABA wants to upregulate, glutamate wants to downregulate, but because we're always stabilizing or tapering so slowly, the brain doesn't know which direction to go. Just a thought! The Ashton method worked for me so long ago.

 

Please, calm yourself down. We're all here to support you  :thumbsup:

 

@pacenik Quetiapine has helped me a lot during benzo withdrawal and saved my life even. Maybe we're not the experts we want us to be, and sometimes the doctor is right. Right now I'm taking quetiapine for my cold-turkey from 600 mg diazepam and it mellows the symptoms down. You can't get addicted to quetiapine. I've been on 800 mgs, then stopped abruptly, and there were no symptoms. Maybe that's again my own individual brain chemistry, but it works for me  ;)

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Kind of sounds like you want for us to help you invalidate your participation in this program and the agreement that you made with your father/roommates.

 

No, I am willing to keep my word which is why I came. The issue is that it's obvious that the vast majority if not all of these rehab centers use this rapid taper approach, which leaves the person basically in a state of delerium after whatever small taper they are on is over. If you're in that state, how can you get anything positive from the rehab like the classes etc? I fully realize and accept I need help with my addiction issues. The issue here is that I don't have an addiction issue with Xanax, it's a dependence. I've never felt good from Xanax and all it does it stave off with withdrawals. I'm basically looking for input in how to stay sane through this process and any input.

 

While a rapid reduction is non-optimal, there are plenty of us who have done c/t's and recovered.  It's a difficult path for sure, but doable.  I stayed sane by staying busy. 

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Quetiapine has helped me a lot during benzo withdrawal and saved my life even. Maybe we're not the experts we want us to be, and sometimes the doctor is right. Right now I'm taking quetiapine for my cold-turkey from 600 mg diazepam and it mellows the symptoms down. You can't get addicted to quetiapine. I've been on 800 mgs, then stopped abruptly, and there were no symptoms. Maybe that's again my own individual brain chemistry, but it works for me  ;)

Oh, you sure can get dependent on antipsychotics. You've got people on this forum who got permanent brain damage from antipsychotics. You are not cold-turkeying from 600 mg, you took 600 mg once, not for years on end. Similarly taking even an overdose of quetiapine short-term won't get you dependent on it. You can overdose on benzos short-term, and similarly you won't get dependent on them (if you aren't kindled already). Also, something common for antipsychotic withdrawal and antidepressant withdrawal are tardive symptomps i.e. you start getting withdrawal symptoms late, three to six months later upon discontinuation. Dependence develops with long-term use and sure-enough every drug causes physical dependence, not just psychoactive ones, e.g. proton-pump inhibitors, beta-blockers, antihistamines, etc.

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@[pa...]

 

This is my last post to you, and I'm going to be ignoring you from now on because you always go off-topic the main theme, which is this person's benzo problems. Also, you seem like the kind of person who's well read and feels like an expert on everything. I am quitting cold-turkeying from 600 mg because I had been taking them regularly, not only once.

 

I try to balance theory (what you read on the Internet or other sources) with experience. My experience has shown me that I can't get addicted to quetiapine because I took it for a year, then stopped abruptly and had no w/d symptoms. Anti-depressants probably could lead to tolerance, although I personally don't think they work at all anyway.

 

I tried many times to be understanding, but you're obsessed with Dr Shipko's book, and your tone is always looking down on people as if you're some kind of an expert on everything. AND you always go off-topic the main thread in an intellectual debate to prove you're right. This is not the debate club. It's a community for helping people with benzodiazepines.

 

Try to be more open-minded to other people's experiences and points-of-view. Enough said.

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It's not off-topic to warn someone of antipsychotic. By your logic benzos aren't addictive because I used to be able to quit them cold-turkey multiple times without withdrawal symptoms. That was my experience. So what? I didn't go around telling people that benzos aren't addictive. Antipsychotics are nuclear option, the worst of the worst, and not to be taken lightly. You're being irresponsible. Enough said.
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By your logic benzos aren't addictive because I used to be able to quit them cold-turkey multiple times without withdrawal symptoms. That was my experience. So what? I didn't go around telling people that benzos aren't addictive.

 

My point exactly. Where have I said that there's only one option for people to recover? Where? MY EXPERIENCE with atypical anti-psychotics is quite different. I never got addicted to them, and I used them for a year and a half. There were no withdrawal symptoms. See what I'm hinting at? You're absolutely sure anti-psychotics are the most dangerous meds (because that's your experience), and I have my experience, which has shown me they weren't - FOR ME. They might be dangerous for other people.

 

If you could only listen to me calmly and read what I said with preconceptions and judgement, I think we'd understand each other better. I don't want to fight with you, but it frustrates me that you're so convinced of everything. Every person reacts differently to meds. Heck, I don't believe in anti-depressants at all. I believe ADs are just a pharmaceutical scam. HOWEVER, there are numerous people who report that anti-depressants work for them.

 

Please, if you want to continue this discussion, let's PM because I don't want us to flood the thread. If you don't want to PM, no hard feelings  :thumbsup:

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I'm glad that things at least sound a little more positive. I firmly believe you're serious about putting in the work to get past your addictions and back to a normal life. That's so important because it's the minimum input required from you.

 

In an ideal world, you'll be stabilised on Valium and allowed to do a slow taper under your doctor's supervision. If that happens, please please please throw the Xanax away as a matter of urgency. I understand that it may be more likely that they taper you down to nought. In that case, there tends to be a 2-3 day delayed reaction. It'll hurt but the other meds will mitigate some of the symptoms. I think the combination of extreme withdrawal with a combination of sedating medications on top, might make you feel detached from everything and I wouldn't be surprised if you have difficulty expressing yourself. It could be like that for a while. Slowly removing the meds will help, in time. If I were you, I'd see it like you had a drug problem that's caused you a brain injury and you're taking these meds to cover up the pain while it heals. After some amount of time, you'll be in a position where you can safely remove a med, going at a steady pace. Personally, it had to be med-free for me. I believe that being dependent on a med is bound to cause issues in the long term. Perhaps you are more tolerant towards meds than me, but I hope you'll agree that it's not a good long term plan to have multiple meds.

 

They are 100% taking me down from here to 0 within the next 6-7 days. On 20mg diazepam today I am functioning, depression isn't crippling, and I generally feel normal. I wish we had an actual answer how much diazepam equals alprazolam. I've seen 0.25 and 0.5 numbers. If it's 0.5 no wonder I feel normal as that's near my xanax dosage (2.25) plus the 300 gaba. The question is what to do if things go south fast on the  end of the taper, start of cold turkey. Obvioisly it's very possible I'm not functioning and cannot attend the programs as I would be unable to be detoxed in an acceptable fashion. They can throw all these meds on me, but I already take mirtazepine for 2 months a strong h1 antagonist so they would nil for sleep. Gaba may be having a small anti anxiety effect, but I've taken it many times and have tolerance, so I fail to see it being too effective once I'm brought off.

 

I would love things to go great and they bring me off and I'm a lucky one but I have my doubts. My plan currently would be to reinstate the 4mg of Xanax (probably at like 1-1.5mg) until I could get home which would take a day (I'm in LA from Orlando) to prevent seizure, immediately contact my old doc asap and explain with fully honesty what happened, and pray he works with me on Diazepam taper at a lower dose. Or, find a different doctor which will be very difficult. Worst case scenario is use my 79mg to commence a slow taper from 1mg over a 3 month period. While not ideal, I'm hopeful this will be effective as I will depart within a day or two if things get really ugly (and I've read the stories) that would be a fast and difficult taper, but likely a better option than being thrown straight into the CT fire. I'm aware of reinstatement dangers, but this will be a very quick reinstate with the long hl of diazepam. Again, I really hope a miracle happens and this works out like they claim, I'll totally stick with it. But, I've gotta be realistic about the danger here.

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There's disagreement on dose equivalency. 0.5mg Xanax = 10mg Valium is what I have seen before and seems about right. However, people are very different. If you were struggling with interdose withdrawal symptoms due to Xanax wearing off quickly, it's possible that a dose of Valium that is smaller than the equivalent dose gives you some relief from this phenomenon. Gabapentin is known to potentiate benzos so that might be why you're feeling alright.

 

If you have to take some Xanax, absolutely keep it to a minimum and keep it to yourself as well. It's for emergencies. If you can somehow convince your old doctor to put you on a diazepam taper starting at around 20mg (use the rehab anecdote to explain why you want to start at that point). It might be a bit of a negotiation and perhaps he'll want to start you on a less, I don't know. Take what you can get and don't mess it up (please throw the Xanax if you get a Valium prescription), because you will have been handed a real lifeline. Hopefully your doctor will give you some time to stabilise before you taper. This is more important the lower the dose he starts you on. For example, say he starts you on 15mg cos you said 20mg and he's trying to eek every last bit. Fine, you can get through that, but you're going to need a couple of months before your dose is lowered. Whereas, if he starts you on 20mg, you might be feeling alright to taper in a couple of weeks.

 

The trick is, you have to stick up for yourself without insisting too loudly that the doctor is wrong. If you have to put forward an argument, make sure that it centres around the taper being realistic to increase your chances of success. You're desperate to get off it but want to go at the right pace. You really need to be smart and proactive about keeping your addictions in check and making sure you get credit when you're doing well. This process is hard enough and there's enough things that are going to go wrong without deliberately hitting self-destruct. Focus on getting through, one day to the next. It gets dramatically better if you can just hang in there.

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Also, antipsychotics are absolutely a class of medication that is associated with physical dependence and extreme withdrawals in some cases. They are also far more toxic than benzodiazepines and most other psychiatric medications. If I see someone even hinting that this is a benign/safe drug to take, I'm going to see it as my duty to alert people that it is not.

 

Readers should be wary of extraordinary claims such as cold turkeying quetiapine after 1.5 years with no withdrawal symptoms. I believe this was an honest claim but I'd like to know how many tens of milligrammes of Klonopin were consumed around that time.

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Woke up today feeling not so great. Will be on 20mg Valium again today, and then the step down behind. I'm honestly quite scared what condition I'll be in a week from now. I know it's not likely to be pretty. I'm capping the gabapentin at 300 3x a day despite them wanting to put me on 600 3x a day. I don't want to run into wd issues there, and would greatly prefer to keep this use under 2 weeks to prevent wd issues there on top of the other wd already ongoing. Have added one of supplements, NAC to keep glutamate at bay a bit and antioxidant for all of the madness likely ongoing in my head at the moment. Head pain is bad, very bad, and unlike usual ibuprofen is barely touching it.

 

I have my current psychiatrist in FL who I made the agreement with to stay off of substances who will hopefully give me another chance. I also have an old psychiatrist I've seen as recent as earlier this year (when I was traveling back and fourth between FL and KS where my parents live) hes a very easy going liberal guy, but he never knew anything of my addiction issues even when I was on suboxone and taking Adderall and Xanax from him. I will likely utilize my father with both of these guys as support that he believes I am willing to take the correct steps to fight my issues, but going to rehab and pulling me straight off basically my lifeline to sanity was not the way to go about it. With either of these guys, I would greatly prefer the Valium taper method. I will need to use my xanax for a short period of time after I likely exit here, which I will cap around 1.25mg/day just to keep me sane to be able to travel and prevent seizures (which will likely be in a week to 10 days once things are likely to go haywire) the bottom line is I have very severe anxiety/ocd beneath even the Xanax issue so this is a major problem and traumatic event for someone like me. I needed a traumatic event I believe to get my head straight. I doubt reinstatement should be an issue here as I will have a short amount of time off of a benzo. Worst case scenario is I have drawn up a fairly rapid 14 week taper off of Xanax from 1.25mg with 79mg.It won't be comfortable, but I imagine it's a better alternative than what they are doing to me here.

 

All in all, at the moment id say mental anxiety is a 7/10, physical 7/10, head pain is an 8/10, body pain is 5/10. I'm honestly terrified of the days to come, and I'm not one to be easily scared as I've been through a lot of trauma in my life, but the thought of going cold turkey like this knowing the likely outcome is nothing short of frightening.

 

I have already informed the staff here I'm not a fan or in agreement with what they're doing. I've told them once my anxiety is to a level I cannot manage, or I can no longer sleep, I will be checking out. I am willing to increase the gaba to 1800 for a few days just to keep myself from totally losing it, but I really want to manage that. I am denying the antipsychotics. If whatever they do sends me into hallucinations, you don't slap a bandaid on it. I'm already going to likely have to deal with mirtazepine 30mg wd if I cannot get a doctor to work with me, which I'll likely have to use some sort of antihistamine taper to tackle that.

 

I greatly appreciate all of the input. I'm honestly scared out of my mind here as someone who even while on Xanax still deals with residual anxiety.

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I guess also in a way, I'm trying to see this as a tolerance reduction in that I can seem to at least somewhat function on 20mg diazepam off of 2.25 Xanax. Obviously it's more than a shock my system would like to take, but at least I have the option and supply to reinstate at a small Xanax dosage until I can (pray) I can get on a Valium taper.
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I guess also in a way, I'm trying to see this as a tolerance reduction in that I can seem to at least somewhat function on 20mg diazepam off of 2.25 Xanax. Obviously it's more than a shock my system would like to take, but at least I have the option and supply to reinstate quickly at a small Xanax dosage until I can (pray) I can get on a Valium taper.

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I guess also in a way, I'm trying to see this as a tolerance reduction in that I can seem to at least somewhat function on 20mg diazepam off of 2.25 Xanax. Obviously it's more than a shock my system would like to take, but at least I have the option and supply to reinstate at a small Xanax dosage until I can (pray) I can get on a Valium taper.

I think that's a smart way to view it. It will reduce your tolerance to benzos substantially. If you have to go the route of self-administering Xanax, I would encourage you to split it into 3 separate doses. What that will do which may not seem desirable at first is make it so you don't really feel it hitting you. The reason that it isn't so bad is you shouldn't feel it leaving you so much either. It means you'll feel run down and crappy and sorry, but that residual anxiety will be constantly lurking in the background. When you get through this, "regular" anxiety will seem like a piece of cake.

 

It's no surprise to regulars on this forum that you could be taking Xanax and still be feeling anxious. That's because while the acute effects of the drug leads to anxiolysis, there is a mountain of evidence that they increase anxiety levels when you take them regularly. That is, if you're hooked on Xanax, you're likely to feel anxious more often and with greater severity than if you weren't hooked on Xanax.

 

Another useful thing you may get from the experience is a greater tolerance to pain. It might be that if you were put on a tapering plan before rehab, you'd have struggled to stick with it at a hint of difficult symptoms. Now that you know you can stand a lot and the world doesn't end, you might find it easier to cope when they happen, especially if you've dealt with worse.

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Readers should be wary of extraordinary claims such as cold turkeying quetiapine after 1.5 years with no withdrawal symptoms. I believe this was an honest claim but I'd like to know how many tens of milligrammes of Klonopin were consumed around that time.

 

@diaz-e-BAM

 

How do you explain my experience then? I took quetiapine for a year at 400-800 mgs per day and then I quit it cold turkey. I had zero symptoms. Yeah, sure , I did build tolerance, so it wasn't making me sleepy any longer, but after I reinstated it started working again. I've never had a craving for quetiapine, nor withdrawal, nor dependence. It helped me with my benzo w/d symptoms and to sleep. Quetiapine is actually pretty common to prescribe here for people with alcoholism or benzo/barbiturate addiction. I've not seen one person become addicted to quetiapine.

 

I'm just saying maybe it really depends on the individual's neurochemistry, and some of us are okay with. Personally, I can't tolerate anti-depressants. They make me aggressive, suicidal, helpless, NEVER EVER work, but atypical anti-psychotics work both for depression and anxiety for me.

 

Guys, I know we all want to stick to what we have tried and know, but because it's a community let's not be so stubborn to believe there are no other alternatives. A lot of the people here have the opposite reactions to the same med, for instance.

 

Take care, diaz-e-BAM  :thumbsup: You helped me a lot when I was depressed last week.

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I hinted at an explanation, sorry it didn't come across. I'm suggesting that if you were on tens of milligrammes of Klonopin, that would explain why you report no withdrawal symptoms. Even if not, you also told a story about rehab where you were rapid tapered from 200mg to 30mg diazepam and say you were fine. I know enough about how that story panned out to know that it's more complicated than that and the fact that you went on to binge on 600mg diazepam shortly after suggests that it wasn't fine.

 

Addictivity is certainly a factor in how harmful a substance is but toxicity is a bigger deal. Quetiapine will always be more hazardous than chocolate even though chocolate is clearly more addictive.

 

I am not telling anybody what to do. What I am doing is countering your casual advice because it is ill-considered and more dangerous than you are aware of. It's true that there's more than one way to go about things and what might work for one person won't for another etc etc. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as bad advice.

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