Discussion: Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

[[es...]]

Another relief! I was actually going to ask you about the possibility of being derailed by one of the absolute worst and life threatening reactions, even months or years out. I did not really have a clearly defined acute period, probably because I tapered. I have read that some have had a delayed acute, but I am uncertain what that actually means, in terms of timing. Espy

[[so...]]

Espy,

 

There are two drugs I know of that have “delayed onset” of symptoms.  One is a benzo, Valium.  One is an AD, Prozac.

 

After being on two forums, people reported these two drugs consistently had delayed onset of symptoms.  This is due to the long half lives they had.  The drugs stay in the system longer (for days) than, say, the fast-acting Ativan that clears the system in a matter of hours.

 

I’m sure there are other drugs that have a delayed onset, but these are the two that are the most consistent.

 

Espy, try not to look over your shoulder for the other “shoe to drop.”  You’ve got what you’ve got.  The rest of the process will be just managing whatever you have now.

 

Sofa

[[Ra...]]

Never coming back here... too scary.  I'd prefer to think the best... have positivity and trust in the God that I believe in for my healing. 

[[pr...]]

Espy,

 

There are two drugs I know of that have “delayed onset” of symptoms.  One is a benzo, Valium.  One is an AD, Prozac.

 

After being on two forums, people reported these two drugs consistently had delayed onset of symptoms.  This is due to the long half lives they had.  The drugs stay in the system longer (for days) than, say, the fast-acting Ativan that clears the system in a matter of hours.

 

I’m sure there are other drugs that have a delayed onset, but these are the two that are the most consistent.

 

Espy, try not to look over your shoulder for the other “shoe to drop.”  You’ve got what you’ve got.  The rest of the process will be just managing whatever you have now.

 

Sofa

Sofa you are a light shinning in darkness. I will never forget your compassion for others. I remember being on pins and needles waiting for the other shoe to drop with more symptoms. I thought I would have every one on the list too. whenever I read about someone else having a symptom I could almost feel myself coming down with the same one. I have left the board many times shaking like a leaf on a tree. LOL

[[so...]]

Raquel,

 

As my friend, Benzogirl, has always said, “You take from the forum what helps you and throw out the rest.”

 

Sofa

[[be...]]

:thumbsup: :smitten:

[[He...]]

Hi everyone,

I am Heathcliff,

I started my taper off of diazapam in January of 2016.

It’s been almost 4 years of tapering and I am FINALLY just about ready to “walk off “ this benzo.

 

I have gotten life saving advice, suggestions, support from wonderful buddies on mostly the long hold support group, although I have visited many other support groups along the way.

 

The beginning of my taper was absolutely horrendous because I did not know anything about how to get off my benzo. I started with cut and hold, taking reductions in dose that were way to big, and I was cutting at a rate that made my wdsx almost intolerable.

I finally switched to Liquid Diazapam, learned how to make a solution with diazapam and water, and began a DLMT.  I did long holds when necessary, learned how to be patient and go really slowly  with my reductions in dose.

 

I am now at 0.012 mg. I HAVE DONE IT ONLY BECAUSE I FOUND THIS WEBSITE!!!

I do not have words to describe how lucky I am to have found you all!

 

I just finished watching the LISA LING SPECIAL ABOUT THE HORRORS Of BENZODIAZEPINES and the WITHDRAWAL process.

I NOTICED ON the TV that one of the people on the show who was being interviewed had also found this BENZODIAZEPINE BUDDIES FORUM. SHE TOO WAS SAVED BY THIS WEBSITE.

 

I find it so very scary to think what might have happened to me had I not STUMBLED ACROSS this website😳😧!

 

I am just wondering why there is not any kind of advertising of some sort to get the word out to so many benzo sufferers about this website, so more people can be helped through a withdrawal from benzos. It is sad, but Doctors just don’t know!

 

So my question to anyone who knows is... How do we get the word out about this life saving forum?

Other than just STUMBLING UPON IT when searching for help on the internet?

 

Thanks to everyone, from the deepest part of my heart for what you have all done for me!

HEATHCLIFF

 

[[so...]]

Heathcliff,

 

That was one of the nicest posts I’ve read in awhile.  You are sounding really well.  And......

 

            CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

                                                    🎉🎊🍾🎈

 

 

[Guest [so...]]

Could you kindly provide evidence based research to back up your claims that there are "4 Phases of Withdrawal ". My neurologist, who is very benzo wise is keen to read the articles from which you have made these assertions.

[[Wi...]]

southern star, reading your signature, I'm really sorry for everything you've been through.

 

To me, it's clear from posts on the BB forum that the '4 phases' provides a generalized outline only - based on the experiences of a number of past members. In practice, the recovery trajectory of each member is unique. Just because someone's recovery doesn't conform to the pattern described here, does not mean that they're not making progress.

 

My own healing, for example, has not followed this pattern. I'm sure some others could say the same of theirs. Some feel relatively well after they step off, for example, then go through a horrific phase where they seem to backslide for quite a long time -- then go on to full recovery (sometimes quickly).... We are all different, and there are multiple factors that could be at play in each individual case. (For example, unlike some members, I believe that targeted supplementation has helped me greatly, after testing for and treating specific underlying imbalances with natural means.)

 

There really is no 'one size fits all'. And that's OK. The one thing we do know, is: as long as you avoid benzodiazepines (and, as far as possible, avoid other medications) you WILL improve greatly, in time.

 

Best to you.

 

Wildflower

[Guest [so...]]

So it's conjecture but its tone of writing implies it's fact. That's why i asked for the evidence as i showed it to my new  neurologist who thankfully is very benzo wise  and he is highly sceptical of the linear progression implied in the "4 stages". I think if someone is writing in a tone that implies fact it should be made very clear whether this is fact or not (by providing evidence in the form of research articles) to avoid misleading members.

 

Thanks for your kind words Wildflower, they're very much appreciated.

[[so...]]

Wildflower,

 

You are absolutely correct.  As was stated in the original post, the Four Phases is an observation of the recovery process based on anecdotal evidence collected from hundreds of members’ posts who report on a daily basis what they are going through.  Not everyone follows this progression to a T because there is no T.

 

No “scientific research” exists that explains, without question, exactly what is happening inside us.  If properly conducted research did exist, we would be much closer to the “truth” than we are today.  Sadly, we are not.  I’m not sure if anecdotal evidence will ever lead us to a cure for withdrawal, or to a better way to mitigate these symptoms, but that’s not the purpose of this thread.

 

The purpose of this thread is, and always has been, to give people reassurance that this is a process that, over time, will culminate in full recovery.  It is a beacon of hope for those who are surrounded by darkness.  If we don’t hold onto hope that this all ends someday, this journey can be absolutely unbearable.  When you are groping in the dark, fear takes hold and fear, on top of the physiological organic fear we already have during this process, is like kerosene on a fire.  We need to stay calm to keep our CNS stable and ourselves sane. 

 

To those who want iron-clad scientific evidence to ease their fears, I wish you well.  All I ask is that people who want to “cause trouble,” stay off this thread and allow those who are comforted by the Four Phases be allowed to be comforted by it.  I see so much confrontation and personal attacks on this forum lately.  It’s getting more and more difficult to find a “safe place” anymore.

 

As for the “accuracy” of the Four Phases, I have progressed along my own path much like it describes.  It is an overview, as you said Wildflower.  It was never intended to be a “road map” that everyone will follow.

 

What I like most about this thread, what I LOVE actually, are the people it attracts.  People who have hope.  People who are gentle and kind.  People who have compassion for each other. 

 

Sofa

 

[[be...]]

What sofa said. I think this is a great thread and gives people hope. Neurologist or not.

[[Wi...]]

southern star - You're very welcome.

 

Sofa & benzogirl - I absolutely agree about the importance of hope. There are actually new scientific studies that confirm the importance of hope, belief and positivity during the healing process....

 

Also, so many people here have trauma in their past, which tends to come up intensely during withdrawal and recovery. Without gentleness, it seems to me we're just reinforcing those original wounds. I appreciate very much that this thread tries to promote safety and kindness.

 

 

[[so...]]

Benzogirl,

 

Love you, my friend.

 

Sofa

[[so...]]

Wildflower,

 

You pack your posts with such deep understanding, not only about what’s happening in withdrawal, but of the “human condition.”  Thank you for the peace you give all of us.

 

Sofa

[Guest [so...]]

Sofa, are you alluding to my post when you mention people on your thread who post to "cause trouble"? It feels sort of passive aggressive and I'm unsure why you would want to talk like that. I liked your original post enough to show it to my neurologist. He asked if you had research to back up your assertions. I posted that question. Mods are always admonishing members who write as fact without evidence to back it up, as that hasn't happened here i assumed you would have the research to hand. No problem if it's anecdotal, but it needs to be stated clearly on the original post, that's all.

 

I wish you peace and healing.

[[Do...]]

This is absurd.  Southern is just asking for clarification so that she can provide her Dr. with accurate information.  And you accuse her of causing trouble??  Southern is in a fight for her life.  She shouldn't have to be trying to figure out what your issues are in order to get information.

 

Sofa, You need a break from the forum.  This thread isn't about you. It's not your blog. You seem to be personalizing all over the forum.  We need the spirit of healing back into this place.

 

Peace

[[Ch...]]

‘Four Phases’ is anecdotal, as is much of benzodiazepine withdrawal and recovery.  Colin and the administrative team found this piece worthy enough to become a ‘sticky’ topic.

 

No one has all the answers, not anyone here nor anyone in the medical field. We all do the best we can with the information on hand.

 

There are many who have found this thread helpful over the years, but if one finds no personal value in a particular thread, it’s always best to move on. The team is spending way too much time putting out fires when there are lots of new members with taper and support needs far more important than petty squabbles between folks here who should know better than to start and/or continue them.

 

Please allow the thread to go back to topic now.  I get that everyone wants the last word so I would appreciate no ‘last posts on this subject’.

[[so...]]

Thanks for your post, Challis.  I appreciate your presence on this forum.

 

Sofa

[[no...]]

...  As was stated in the original post, the Four Phases is an observation of the recovery process based on anecdotal evidence collected from hundreds of members’ posts who report on a daily basis what they are going through.  Not everyone follows this progression to a T because there is no T.

 

No “scientific research” exists that explains, without question, exactly what is happening inside us.  If properly conducted research did exist, we would be much closer to the “truth” than we are today.  Sadly, we are not.  I’m not sure if anecdotal evidence will ever lead us to a cure for withdrawal, or to a better way to mitigate these symptoms, but that’s not the purpose of this thread.

 

The purpose of this thread is, and always has been, to give people reassurance that this is a process that, over time, will culminate in full recovery.  It is a beacon of hope for those who are surrounded by darkness.  If we don’t hold onto hope that this all ends someday, this journey can be absolutely unbearable.  When you are groping in the dark, fear takes hold and fear, on top of the physiological organic fear we already have during this process, is like kerosene on a fire.  We need to stay calm to keep our CNS stable and ourselves sane. 

[[no...]]

Hi my dear friends,

 

I wanted to share with you an image I have about this healing process.  About what’s going on inside us.  Maybe it will give you renewed hope in the power your body has to make things right and to completely heal you.

 

Picture your body as a map.  When we are born, the map is pure white.  Pristine.  From infancy, through childhood, through teenage years, through adulthood, we take a black pen, with the foods we eat, with the toxins we are exposed to, with hormonal changes, with the stresses we endure from life’s ups and downs, and we dot the pristine landscape of our bodies with black and gray ink spots.  These darkened areas start manifesting symptoms.  We go to the doctor complaining of ailments.  The doctor prescribes benzos.

 

Now the tragedy begins.  We take the benzos as prescribed. Instead of fixing the symptoms we went to the doctor about to get resolved, the benzos blackened the landscape of our bodies even further.  So much further that we tip the scales of balance (tolerance occurs).  Now the symptoms step out in front. We are officially out of kilter.  The doctors are stumped. They increase the dosage—the opposite of what should be done.  The landscape is further blackened.  Now stand back.  Look at the landscape of your body.  That little pristine infant body is now an ashtray of black, grey and white areas.

 

We research the internet because our doctors are no help.  We find various sites like BB that tell us THE DRUGS ARE CAUSING THIS. 

 

So we remove the drugs.  Some cold turkey, not knowing they shouldn’t.  Some taper, having found BB.  We assume that, if we remove the drugs from our bodies, all will be hunky dory.  We don’t realize that the black and grey dirty areas of our body’s landscape has been accumulating since our infancy.  There’s a lot of repair work to be done and just removing the drug won’t suddenly wipe our slates clean

 

Here’s what happens when you remove the drug.  It kicks your system into TURBO REPAIR MODE.  Now the “fun” begins.  The gates of hell open up.  You are in repair mode now.  Hang on for the ride of your life.

 

Step back and look at the map of your body.  All the black, grey and white areas.  The symptoms you feel are coming from the black and grey areas of your body where you’ve damaged over the years quite a bit.  The white areas of your body are the symptoms you don’t get that other people complain about.  Genetically, you’re just more resilient in these areas.  That’s why there are 322 reported symptoms and nobody gets all of them. 

 

Think of the symptoms that plague you the most, and usually stay with you for the  entire healing process or at least months/years.  Those are your really black charred areas.  Lots of clean-up work to be done there.  The grey areas are not as thick and persistent and, just like a sponge scrubby, the grime will lift faster than the deeply stained areas you’ve really got to scour to get clean.  Lots of elbow grease.

 

Your system is scouring your landscape.  Sometimes it takes breaks (windows occur).  Then it revs up again (waves occur). Regardless of whether you have a windows and waves healing pattern or you don’t (like me), the end result is the same:  a pristine kitchen sink, like in infancy, you are reborn with a squeaky clean landscape.  You have a second chance at life. You won’t be standing in line at the pharmacy, walking out with bagfuls of drugs like the other poor souls in line.  You will be drug free, eating healthy, exercising, traveling and enjoying your loved ones.  One foot in heaven.  That’s what you walk away with.  It’s the reward you get for walking through hell.

 

Sofa

i adore this. thank you so much for putting it into visuals with your wordsmithing! (copypasting to my bblog for later reference)

[[es...]]

I agree. Fantastic post. I am proud to say that my nervous system never has to take a break from the repair work. A window for me, would just make it seem lazy. So lucky! Espy

[[no...]]

I agree. Fantastic post. I am proud to say that my nervous system never has to take a break from the repair work. A window for me, would just make it seem lazy. So lucky! Espy

lol! well i gotta hand it to you for transforming that "negative" into a positive with your sense of humor and obviously resilience too. i do hope it lets you have a window soon tho, just for all the hard work you've done. 

[[es...]]

Nothing could be more unfair than what we are going through. I am constantly bargaining, even though there is no chance of a negotiated settlement. Espy