Discussion: Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

[[so...]]

Hahaha sweet Rabbit. 

 

I always guess Cole Porter, the Gershwins or Hammerstein to cover my bases when I’m completely ignorant.

 

Thanks for the Doolittle source.

 

Sofa

[[be...]]

 

Old Fart yourself .

 

Good ole Prof. Higgins to Eliza . Rex Harrison couldn't carry a tune and sort of 'talked ' his way through ' My Fair Lady '.

 

Love ya Sofa. Sweetie darling . Who said that ?

 

Figi

[[so...]]

Thanks, Bets.

 

FIGI.

 

That’s my answer.

 

Sofa

[[be...]]

 

See I’m not that stupid lol 😆

[[br...]]

 

 

I'm stupid.

 

W.T.F. is FIGI . I always thought FIGI was something Brit. Christians ate over Christmas . Or is that pudding ?

 

They LORD !!!!!!!!! . The benzos did mess with my brain  :o

[[be...]]

That’s figgy pudding

[[Ap...]]

a k a Plum Puddin' in Canader!!!! 🎄

[[so...]]

Below is a post I wrote on another thread regarding withdrawal “facts” (which, by the way, do not exist):

 

“When you talk of percentages and use words like ‘definitely,’ you are making assumptions of fact.  There are no facts when it comes to withdrawal.  There is no ‘data’ that is at all reliable.  You are members of one forum.  Throughout the world there are thousands of forums less well-known than benzobuddies.org.

 

We have had this discussion thousands of times on this forum.  People trying to figure out if we are very rare cases; trying to guess timelines and percentages; trying to correlate dosages, years taking the drugs and their influence on how long we will be in withdrawal; which drugs nail you more than others.  The list of things we keep obsessing about it endless.

 

Your body will keep in repair mode until it’s damn well finished.  Each of us is unique.  We cannot compare ourselves to others.  This guessing game we play is a result of the mental ruminations we experience because we want a specific DATE we can count on when this will all stop.  It does not exist for a ‘group’ or a ‘majority’ of people.  Each individual end date is as unique as a fingerprint.

 

Sofa”

 

Everyone,

 

I know one of the most frustrating aspects of this journey is we don’t know “when this will end.”  We keep asking the same question because we want desperately to know the DATE when this shit will disappear.  We keep trying to take anecdotal stories and make them hard statistics (that’s a big mistake).  All these discussions of how “rare” and “unlucky” we are make most of us feel worse, and definitely broken.

 

I have read many stories over the years and I’ve had discussions with people who have met with the most famous neurologists in the world.  The most knowledgeable neurologists have stated that we are not unusual at all, nor are we rare exceptions.  Those who go through prolonged difficult withdrawal from benzodiazepines are the “norm.”  The people who take benzos long-term and walk off them with no withdrawal are the rare cases.  Some neurologists say they’ve never seen these rare cases, but that makes sense.  People who walk off these drugs with no problems don’t make appointments with neurologists.  Once again, this is why gathering statistics is impossible.  You need a hard baseline of facts to determine percentages.

 

Guys, please try to let go of thoughts that disturb you and of subjects where there are no answers.  Just know that, when your body finishes it’s repair work, you will be done.  Try not to drive yourself crazy with all this stuff.

 

Sofa

[[br...]]

 

 

Thank you Sofa .

As always , smart , informed , and with  thoughtful posts  showing compassion for the suffering  . 

 

So y'all  listen up to Sofa and trust that the misery will end . The journey is different for everyone because we are all different . Sadly the reality is that we still  are somewhat in the dark ages as to the whole withdrawal experience . This makes predictions almost impossible We are the pioneers and research is only at the beginning stage. What we do know for sure is that recovery will happen for everyone of us . Until it does we fight the beast with every weapon that we have . Most importantly we love each other and stay in the good zone away from the negative people and actual haters .

 

[[so...]]

Great post rabbit.  One for my fridge magnet.

 

Sofa

[[so...]]

Hi Everyone!

 

How are you all doing?  Just wanted to pop in and check on you guys.  Have you got anything new to report?  Have you turned any corners lately? 

 

Most days it feels like nothing’s changed, but when you look closer, you see improvements.  What I’ve noticed about myself is I’m “regulating.”  I am sleeping exactly 7.5 hours every night.  My sleep used to vary from 5-7 hours most nights, with a few nights pushing 9 hours. 

 

Starting with a gum infection July 4th, then a course of ABs, then a stomach virus, then a few food issues, I’ve been in rolling upticks for three months.  It’s discouraging because you realize you’re “still in it,” but you’ve just got to ride it out knowing that the upticks will end and you will get back to a baseline that, historically, is even higher than before.  Maybe this pattern of higher baselines will eventually “push you up and out.”

 

Every single day you heal.  You don’t recognize it because it’s so subtle, but at some point enough healing has taken place where you can “feel” it.

 

Keep going everyone.  I stopped reading the success stories years ago.  Tales of early healing started to discourage me as time kept marching on for me.  But when you think about it, everyone is healing the best way for his/her individual chemistry.  The overall message that the success stories yell from the rooftops is WE ALL HEAL.

 

Sofa

[[es...]]

Sofa, you are the voice of hope and hope is the one thing we cannot afford to lose. You are so right about subtle changes. Month four has been my worst, in many ways, and that has caused me to miss a few subtle changes. After I read your post, I began to realize that something has changed. I am bored, and I think that may be a good thing. For over a year, I have been able to stay in a world of total isolation and self protection with an ease I would not have thought possible. But I think my brain is waking up a little. I can think a little more clearly now. The person I was before is still lost to me, but I think I may be starting to have glimpses of her. At least, enough to make me start fighting hard to get over the first of the many big humps. I don’t think I have said this very well. These things really have no language. Espy

[[Ra...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

My angel and mentor through this withdrawal mess is someone who survived benzo withdrawal herself, supported and cared for her husband during his withdrawal, and has observed and supported hundreds of people on BB through this process, all of whom have healed and are out living lives of complete rebirth and utter bliss.  They have all healed.  She has read thousands of posts and followed hundreds of journeys and, as a third party observer, she has concluded there are four distinct phases to this withdrawal process.  I thought it might be interesting to some people (me) to try and figure out where we are in our journey and maybe how much longer we have to do "time" before we're released from our temporary prison.  I also think it may give some people (me) hope that we are progressing and this will, one day, come to an end.  Maybe these phases don't ring true for your withdrawal experience.  Tapering versus cold turkey would likely make our journeys different for that reason alone.  I hope lots of people chime in with their experiences through withdrawal, as the collection of more anecdotal evidence helps all of us.

 

PHASE ONE

This is what we commonly refer to as the Acute Phase, which commences once you jump off the medication.  If you tapered and went through tolerance withdrawal, this phase is likely to be a smoother transition than a cold turkey or rapid withdrawal. 

 

PHASE TWO

This phase is a little easier than Phase One, but is marked by symptoms "morphing" in nature, becoming intermittent, decreasing in intensity and frequency, and even disappearing altogether.  New symptoms may even pop in and out periodically.  Some people start detecting the Windows and Waves pattern beginning.  Others may start seeing relief in the late afternoon and evening.  In this phase, you can pretty easily identify your "core" bugger symptoms versus the auxiliary ones, kind of like a circle within a circle of your close "friends" versus your "acquaintances."  Even if you experience windows, the waves crash down on you for no apparent reason too.  It's still a very hellish phase, to say the least, but it IS progress.

 

PHASE THREE

This phase is better than One and Two because it is more situational and predictable.  It is the Sensitivity Phase.  You might never have noticed you reacted to things earlier in withdrawal, mostly because you were dealing with horrific symptoms all the time and didn't make the sensitivity connection.  How could you?  You were suffering ALL THE TIME.  Now that you are further along in your healing and notice a definite dampening down of symptoms, you'll recognize a big difference when you get upticks and flare ups.  For some people, their sensitivity reaction will come the following day in the form of a wave and they will pull out of it in a matter of hours. This delayed wave reaction and short duration is evidence that your system has healed a LOT.  Others might get hit with a wave that lasts a few days or weeks.  It probably depends on what caused the sensitivity reaction.  Here are just a few things that may or may not cause a sensitivity wave: 

 

1.  You eat something that doesn't agree with you, or contains preservatives or too much sugar.

2.  Caffeine, alcohol, weed.

3.  Missing meals which makes your blood sugar drop.

4.  Too much strenuous exercise, activity or over-stimulation.

5.  Stressful life circumstances.

6.  Antibiotics.

7.  Drugs and supplements.

8.  Chemicals in cleaning and personal products.

 

These are just a few of the sensitivity triggers that may or may not cause a wave.  I'm sure the buddies on this forum could name many others and I HOPE THEY DO, so the rest of us can keep our antennas up.  Bottom line:  These are situational upticks and waves that are not random and come out of nowhere.  You are further along in the healing process.  You'll bounce back and keep moving forward, avoiding the things that trigger your waves.

 

PHASE FOUR

This is the Recovery Phase.  Almost all of the debilitating symptoms that kept you dysfunctional are gone.  The remaining one or two symptoms are more annoyances than anything.  Your systems are still healing, so you need to walk gently into re-entry.  You also need to keep living the healthy lifestyle you've acquired throughout your withdrawal journey.  You will feel better and better each day because your systems are continually healing.  You will KNOW your suffering is over, but you need to keep your antennas up and abstain from your previous vices for another year.

 

So that's it in a very big nutshell.  I'd love to hear feedback from other buddies on whether or not these phases strike a familiar chord, or really don't seem to apply.

 

My own journey has mirrored these phases so far.  I seem to be in Phase Three.

 

Where are all of you in your journey so far?

 

Sofa

 

I started this Benzo tapering journey two years ago because I believed once I got this drug out of my system I would be normal... that I would go back to who I was 15 years ago before Benzo's.  I have done a micro taper for the entire past two years which is tedious.  I am measuring, mixing, and withdrawing through a syringe.  I've spent a lot of money on beakers, syringes, etc.  I made this sacrifice and came all this way believing that I would be healed or better when I finished.  I would like to know who your mentor is because I need one.  I'm not doing well and I am on a very low dose right now with about four months to go.  I have never up-dosed in the last two years but now since I'm at the end I am really suffering.  If these symptoms I'm having are going to get worse I may not be able to finish this as I have to go back to work. I can't even function going to the store let alone work surrounded by people in the medical field.  I am crying (literally) for help and this is the only support I have here... nobody else understands.  It's going to crush me if I cannot finish this taper after all this time and work... but I honestly didn't know before I started that it was going to take this long and now you are saying that there may be months of suffering AFTER I am done.  Omg... please direct me to someone that can help.  I'm so scared... Thank you. 

[[Ma...]]

Sofa, you are the voice of hope and hope is the one thing we cannot afford to lose. You are so right about subtle changes. Month four has been my worst, in many ways, and that has caused me to miss a few subtle changes. After I read your post, I began to realize that something has changed. I am bored, and I think that may be a good thing. For over a year, I have been able to stay in a world of total isolation and self protection with an ease I would not have thought possible. But I think my brain is waking up a little. I can think a little more clearly now. The person I was before is still lost to me, but I think I may be starting to have glimpses of her. At least, enough to make me start fighting hard to get over the first of the many big humps. I don’t think I have said this very well. These things really have no language. Espy

 

Well, I could definitely see you coming back Espy, the help you were while we were swamped with the Lisa Ling newbies.  I am not sure you could have done that a month or two ago.  However, you and that brain kicked butt recently  . You are definitely waking up, my hillbilly cousin.  Love you, Mary 💜💜💜

[[es...]]

Thank you, favorite cousin. RR, I want to tell you that, for me, the end taper was very hard. My whole taper was hard, though. Most will tell you that the lower numbers are challenging. You have done well. Don’t be discouraged. Espy

[[pr...]]

RaquelRocks hang in there you are doing fine and just a little ways to go. I was on the same amount of clonazepam as you, but I was stupid and jump cold turkey into the fire. I would not wish that on anyone so hang in there!

 

PG

[[so...]]

Espy,

 

You are most definitely turning corners!  Congratulations!

 

When your head starts getting clearer, you’ll keep seeing more changes.  It’s your proof that healing is happening.  One day, you’ll look back and wonder how you survived your walk through hell.  It will all be behind you.  Then you’ll realize, DAMN I AM STRONG!

 

Sofa

[[so...]]

Raquel,

 

PM Pattylu.  She is not on the forum much at all anymore, but she gets email notifications from BB when a PM has been received.  She doesn’t support people anymore (I’m the last runt of the litter), but maybe she can give you words of wisdom and encouragement getting off this last bit of K. 

 

This thread is full of the most compassionate people on the forum.  Their knee jerk reaction is to reach out when someone’s in trouble or needs a hug.  You’re in the right place.  This thread is where the gems are hiding in full view. 

 

Sofa

[[Ra...]]

Thank you, favorite cousin. RR, I want to tell you that, for me, the end taper was very hard. My whole taper was hard, though. Most will tell you that the lower numbers are challenging. You have done well. Don’t be discouraged. Espy

 

 

Awe... thank you.  Yesterday was a better day .  Just one day at a time. 

[[Ra...]]

RaquelRocks hang in there you are doing fine and just a little ways to go. I was on the same amount of clonazepam as you, but I was stupid and jump cold turkey into the fire. I would not wish that on anyone so hang in there!

 

PG

 

How do you feel after being so far out after finishing? Is it doable or should I expect hell and homelessness because I have to work.  I have no choice in that.  :'(

[[so...]]

Hi my dear friends,

 

I wanted to share with you an image I have about this healing process.  About what’s going on inside us.  Maybe it will give you renewed hope in the power your body has to make things right and to completely heal you.

 

Picture your body as a map.  When we are born, the map is pure white.  Pristine.  From infancy, through childhood, through teenage years, through adulthood, we take a black pen, with the foods we eat, with the toxins we are exposed to, with hormonal changes, with the stresses we endure from life’s ups and downs, and we dot the pristine landscape of our bodies with black and gray ink spots.  These darkened areas start manifesting symptoms.  We go to the doctor complaining of ailments.  The doctor prescribes benzos.

 

Now the tragedy begins.  We take the benzos as prescribed.  Instead of fixing the symptoms we went to the doctor about to get resolved, the benzos blackened the landscape of our bodies even further.  So much further that we tip the scales of balance (tolerance occurs).  Now the symptoms step out in front.  We are officially out of kilter.  The doctors are stumped.  They increase the dosage—the opposite of what should be done.  The landscape is further blackened.  Now stand back.  Look at the landscape of your body.  That little pristine infant body is now an ashtray of black, grey and white areas.

 

We research the internet because our doctors are no help.  We find various sites like BB that tell us THE DRUGS ARE CAUSING THIS. 

 

So we remove the drugs.  Some cold turkey, not knowing they shouldn’t.  Some taper, having found BB.  We assume that, if we remove the drugs from our bodies, all will be hunky dory.  We don’t realize that the black and grey dirty areas of our body’s landscape has been accumulating since our infancy.  There’s a lot of repair work to be done and just removing the drug won’t suddenly wipe our slates clean

 

Here’s what happens when you remove the drug.  It kicks your system into TURBO REPAIR MODE.  Now the “fun” begins.  The gates of hell open up.  You are in repair mode now.  Hang on for the ride of your life.

 

Step back and look at the map of your body.  All the black, grey and white areas.  The symptoms you feel are coming from the black and grey areas of your body where you’ve damaged over the years quite a bit.  The white areas of your body are the symptoms you don’t get that other people complain about.  Genetically, you’re just more resilient in these areas.  That’s why there are 322 reported symptoms and nobody gets all of them. 

 

Think of the symptoms that plague you the most, and usually stay with you for the  entire healing process or at least months/years.  Those are your really black charred areas.  Lots of clean-up work to be done there.  The grey areas are not as thick and persistent and, just like a sponge scrubby, the grime will lift faster than the deeply stained areas you’ve really got to scour to get clean.  Lots of elbow grease.

 

Your system is scouring your landscape.  Sometimes it takes breaks (windows occur).  Then it revs up again (waves occur).  Regardless of whether you have a windows and waves healing pattern or you don’t (like me), the end result is the same:  a pristine kitchen sink, like in infancy, you are reborn with a squeaky clean landscape.  You have a second chance at life.  You won’t be standing in line at the pharmacy, walking out with bagfuls of drugs like the other poor souls in line.  You will be drug free, eating healthy, exercising, traveling and enjoying your loved ones.  One foot in heaven.  That’s what you walk away with.  It’s the reward you get for walking through hell.

 

Sofa

[[Gi...]]

Sofa,

 

Thank-you for posting that grand scheme overview. You have made it so clear and I’m now looking down on my black, grey and white body and feeling so much more positive.

 

This should be read by all.

 

Your support for me and for all of us has been unending.

 

Thank-you

[[es...]]

This is a post everyone should read. Sofa, you nailed it! What you wrote gave me a lot of insight into my own symptoms. It does seem I am getting the ones I was set up for. I have been waiting to be eventually hit by the rest of the 322, any day now. I am relieved to hear that those other shoes will not necessarily drop. Maybe I have a few white spots left. Espy

[[so...]]

G,

 

As always, I love you.

 

Sofa

[[so...]]

Espy,

 

You won’t get even close to the 322 reported symptoms.  Many of the symptoms on that list, if you look closely, are duplicates.  The list may say “gastric issues,” “benzo belly,” “diarrhea,” “constipation,” “bloating,” etc.  Five symptoms listed, but all are gastric issues.  One symptom listed as five.  There are lots more examples of duplicates.  I think when I was bored one day I crossed out all the duplicates I found and I ended up with about 150 reported symptoms.

 

You won’t get any more major symptoms than you have right now.  The really ugly ones hit you early on.  You may get newcomers in the future, but they won’t last as long as the early stubborn buggers.  You might get a morphing of an old symptom and you’ll think it’s new.  It’s the same horse.  Just a different color.

 

Either way, you’re gonna push through like you always do.

 

Sofa