getting started stopping

[[Re...]]

Hey there, Patty-  You are the first person I've actually begun a conversation with.  I was getting really close to giving up on BB- just trying and trying and as the hours went by I got more and more confused.  I look back on my life (I'm 62) and I see I've been on substances for 50 of those years.  Alcohol from age 13 to 26, then benzos (first just to "take the edge off", then I had to have them).  I was about 27 at that time, and I began with narcotics around then.  I believe I wrote about this earlier.  Methadone and valium for, well still methadone and Klonopin.  I  feel better since I quit smoking cigarettes 20 years ago, and my methadone dose is much less than it was 5 years ago.  It sounds like you got hooked accidently.  Not me.  I wanted to be high, all the time, but there's no way that can happen.  Sooner or later you HAFTA face reality, one way or another.  Hope you get this.  red gibson

[[Pa...]]

Hi Red,

 

Have you figured out what dose you're going to try to stabilize on, and if you'll be able to get enough pills to do a slow taper?  We're here to help you get off the benzo's, so whenever you're ready, let us know.

 

Pam

[[Re...]]

Hello, Pam-  Yes, I'm ready, now , to get clean from all my addictions, no matter how many years it takes.  I guess you know my story- strung out all my life (since age 13 ).  Alcohol from age 13 to 26. The booze was tearing my body down so quickly, I HAD to stop drinking, or die real young.  But I needed something, some chemical in my system.  I just couldn't face life without SOMETHING.  I got started on Percodan (oxycodone, a powerful narcotic), in 1976, benzos came along and I liked them.  I couldn't take narcotic withdrawal after about 500 kickings, so I got on a methadone clinic program.  I felt like I had it made, for a few years, but now I see that I've been on methadone for 30 years and I can't live without benzos. I know that I must kick benzodiazepines BEFORE  I work on the methadone ( I'm at half the methadone dose I was at 5 years ago.  I was at 240 mgs. methadone, now it's a  120 mg. dose/day.  Methadone is no joke.  It's better than illegal narcotics, but it will take time for me to come down from 120 mgs.  I know that BB concerns itself with benzos and that similar class of drugs, not methadone.  That's just my story.  I am concerned with having enough Klonopin to get me thru.  They're more difficult to get all the time.  Juarez, Mexico is where they have always come from, but it's getting really dangerous down there.  Todays paper said "8 murders a day down there"  It's a police state that works with the gangsters.  I know I've said all this in earlier letters to you all, but I'm just doing the best I can.  I need about 8-12 mgs. klonopin per day or I can't think.  I can't face the world.  My memory is not good, but with support I can get thru this.  I quit smoking 20 years ago, and seemed like a snap.  I believe so much of the answer to my addictions is mental.  I took 5 mgs klono today and I can feel the difference.  Funny thing, I slept really well this afternoon for 3 or 4 hrs.  Someday I'll be able to help others, I hope. red gibson 

[[Be...]]

I'm almost 62, been on methadone for 30 years, (a pill-head narco addict, no needles, for 10 years before that) I was a beer drunk for 13 years before that, so I was alcoholic from age 13 to 26 til I couldn't go on, started on Percodan , became an addict, then went to methadone, still on it but after getting into benzos for many years, I realize that for me, the benzos are the most troubling.  I  took 5-10  10mg. Valium for 20 years because they were the easiest to buy over the counter in Juarez, Mexico, no questions asked.  About 15 years ago the methadone clinic put benzos on the "dirty" list, ( they take monthly urine tests), and that's when I found out I was addicted to benzos.  I had to get a legitimet U.S. doctor's prescription ( isn't there always a way around rules?)  I'd gone thru narcotic withdrawal many times before settling on methadone and just kicked it cold turkey, but these benzodiazepines, the withdrawals never seem to end.  I quit cold turkey 5 years ago and stayed off them for a number of months (don't remember exactly how many) but I just about lost my mind.  Could not sleep.  Got more spaced out every day.  I had to go back to them, this time clonazepam, now 6-12 mgs. a day.  I apologize for rambling on, but I kept trying to get on the open forum and kept doing something wrong.  Couldn't get thru.  Hope this long letter succeeds.. So glad to hear there are others out there who may understand.  I dont drink alcohol at all.  Red Gibson

I think you need to set a precise starting dose if you want to taper.  Being on 6-12mg of k means you have no control over the drug and you are just popping them when you feel stressed- you can't taper that way.  Tapering requires diligent control over your baser drives.  I say this totally without judgment.  I was taking unknown amounts of ativan and I had to just pick a number and cross over then taper from there.  You said in another post in this thread that you might take a few k so you could navigate the site-  that's the road to nowhere.  If you want off this beast (benzos) you'll have to take the tiger by the tail and set a schedule and stick to it, and stop thinking about the pills as a way to handle things.  Again, I was in EXACTLY the same mindset you are now in and I can tell you that if I hadn't changed my way of looking at the pills, I couldn't have tapered them. 

I've got a serious jaw problem and I take delaudid and morphine for it when it flares up.  This is usually a few times a year and each time I have to wd from the drugs when my jaw gets better.  I agree with you 100% that opiate wd is NOTHING compared to benzo wd.  I would rather go through opiate wd for a month, than acute benzo wd for a week. 

You sound like a strong person to me and I think you can do this.  The first step, in my opinion, is to nail down how much you are going to start with on your taper, set up a schedule, and stick to it. 

Welcome to healing. 

[[Re...]]

Yes, I know you're absolutely right.  I've lived with the "junkie" mindset for so long I take the drugs when I get the urge.  Well, I'm giving up that urge and going to stabilize myself on the lowest comfortable dose of Klonopin and stay with that for awhile, til feel ready to begin the slow reduction and face life as it comes.  Thank you for helping me to put that into words.  red

[[Be...]]

Yes, I know you're absolutely right.  I've lived with the "junkie" mindset for so long I take the drugs when I get the urge.  Well, I'm giving up that urge and going to stabilize myself on the lowest comfortable dose of Klonopin and stay with that for awhile, til feel ready to begin the slow reduction and face life as it comes.  Thank you for helping me to put that into words.  red

Me too.  That's how I saw it in you 

You can do this.  I read your posts and you are stronger than you realize.  You can beat this and deal with the pain you've been medicating since you were 13. 

[[st...]]

Hi Red,

 

I, too, have faith in you.  Keep reading so you get all the facts.  Please make sure to read the Ashton Manual.  I look forward to following your story.

 

Patty  xo

             

 

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Red,

 

I've asked you this before, but given your addiction issues, do you feel you can taper?  I couldn't have done it, I know me far too well.  Would you be able to do a medical detox?  It's not the best, it's too fast and you're left to hurt for a long time after, but at least they keep you safe and you're done with the pills.  I'm just throwing it out there.

 

Pam

[[Re...]]

Pam- I'm hoping I won't need to go to a rehab type of place.  I know I can do it on my own, if I don't run out of benzos.  I will say that even just a small effort in trying to gain control over these pills caused me to begin to worry about whether or not I'll have enough pills to taper and this developed into an anxiety attack. I felt fear. real, serious fear. So I took 1.5 mg. Klono, 2 hours ago and feel OK now.  If I had to go to a rehab, I would because my family needs me.  My wife and daughter need me.  I have about 3 weeks of 1mg klonopin, and I should be able to get another supply bin a few days, god willin'.  I've never been to rehab before, Iand I desperately don't want to give up my freedom. I'm gonna take things one day at a time and maybe pray a little. ( i'm not a prayin' type of guy, but...)  red

[[Be...]]

Red I'm back to nag some more 

 

Please decide on a set amount to begin your taper before you go get another load of this stuff.  I'm concerned that you are still using the pills 'as needed' (you said you took them when you had a panic attack).  I DO think you can do this but you're setting yourself up for failure if you don't set an amount and a schedule and stick to it like glue. 

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi Red,

 

I know what you mean about your freedom, it's tough to give that up, and I'm sure you need to at least try to do this your way, so I'm behind you all the way!  You probably need to understand that benzo's begin to cause fear and panic when we grow tolerant to them, so the panic you're feeling is because of the drug.  It will be good when you decide what dose you're going to stick to so you can learn to manage your attacks without taking a pill.

 

Keep positive Red, we'll help you get through this.

[[Re...]]

Hi Benzotorture,  What I'm trying do do is locate my level, then take the doses ON TIME, as I do with my methadone.  I've been taking between 8-12 mgs. a day.  I'm aiming for 2mgs. in the morning, the same at mid-day, same in the evening, and again at bedtime.  the is 8 mgs/day.  It may be too much of a drop to stay on.  I won't be taking them when the urge hits me.  This is my first big step.  No more "PRN". Thanks for your help and hope to hear from you soon.  red

[[Pa...]]

All right Red, 8 mgs a day it is, good for you!  Lets see you do this for about a week, then your first cut will be 1 mg, taken out at whatever time of the day suits you best, okay?  It's a little over 10%, but folks who take the high doses can usually afford to cut a little faster in the beginning.  We'll make your next cut a little smaller. 

[[Re...]]

Pam- Thanks for your letter.  I have about 90 1mg. clonos in my safe. This is about 10 days. No, more like 11 days as I will be moving to 7mgs. in 1 week. I've never really worried about getting benzos before, because they've always been available somewhere.  Now that I'm looking at a strict regimen I have a concern-will I be able to find any?  There are usually clonopin around but sometimes it'll be Xanax. I"m familiar with the different benzodiazepines. I would like to get one of the longer acting ones, like Valium, but all of a sudden there nowhere to be found. And I'm NOT going to Juarez!  Xanax is such a short acting drug. Well, I have a few weeks of clonopin and I hope to get some more soon.  I feel better now about things. I'll be taking be taking them even if I don't "have the urge". Thank you for your support, altho I know I have a long, treacherous trip ahead.  If I got in trouble with the law, (I'm not a felon) and got locked up I would probably die in jail for lack of methadone. I'm SO ready to clean up for me, my beautiful daughter, and my wonderful and understanding wife.  Wish me luck! red gibson

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

I'm recovering Red and life is so great when we can get free of our addictions, you're going to love it!  I'm glad you're excited about doing this, this is the right frame of mind to be in.  I'm sure you'll be able to find enough to taper, you're a resourceful guy, and just think, it won't be long before you don't have to do this anymore!

[[Be...]]

I'm recovering Red and life is so great when we can get free of our addictions, you're going to love it!  I'm glad you're excited about doing this, this is the right frame of mind to be in.  I'm sure you'll be able to find enough to taper, you're a resourceful guy, and just think, it won't be long before you don't have to do this anymore!

 

:thumbsup:

 

Pam will never steer you wrong 

 

Red I'd be on the hunt for k right now- 9 days from now you'll be in a full on panic if you don't have a script. 

xoxoxo

I'm so happy to hear you are ready to begin your taper 

[[Re...]]

Good mornning, everyone-  Yesterday was a good day for me, taking my doses as scheduled.  Wife and I went to a string quartette concert and enjoyed it greatly.  If I can keep this program under sail, I feel very optimistic., altho I know that I must keep myself prepared for problems when they arise.  I would so much like to have an M.D. working with me who understands, so I could do this on an outpatient basis.  The very thought of a rehab joint, with their assembly line "cure-all" techniques, where they take you in and keep you on a lock-down basis... I would rather stay on the street, taking my chances of gettin' busted and tossed into the clink where I'm pretty sure I wouldn't survive. (Talk about lock-down!)  It's always been pretty easy to score benzos.  But it's a chancey thing.  I don't know if I should inquire about trying to talk to a rehab doc, but they hafta get all your personal information.  It's quite likely they would notify my methadone clinic and that could just about derail my chances of success, if not much worse.  I'm always "on the hunt" for these benzos and sometimes I don't get klono.  It used to be so easy.  You couldn't keep these guys away from you (the benzo "salesmen"). And the street price is just about getting beyond what I can afford.  Thing is, we have Blue Cross/ Blue Shield insurance which covers rehab.  I can't even stand the word rehab. Well, that's me today, so far. Hope you all are getting along OK. red gibson       

[[Re...]]

This is Red Gibson- I'm not very computer savvy, I surf the net for different information (I'm writing a book). I left a letter on this site I've been using and I think I must have messed it up or somethin'. I'm looking anxiously for a response from anyone. Did I succeed in getting my note out there?  I have what Iv'e heard called a "cog fog".  The harder I try to get something to work, the further I get from success.  Pamster, Patty, Benzotorture, anybody. Let me know if it went thru.  I feel kinda dumb.  red gibson

[[Pa...]]

Hi Red,

 

Yes your last post was successful, but no one has responded to it so it didn't come up when you clicked on Show new replies to your posts.  But you can still find your post, and you did by looking under Welcome to the Community.  You're learning to navigate the forum, good for you!

 

I'm glad you're feeling better about taking your doses on a schedule, rather than when you feel you need it, this is progress, this is how people who aren't addicts behave.  I don't get it, but most of the folks on this forum aren't like us. 

 

 

[[st...]]

Once you figure out how you are going to get the Klono's you will feel so much better.  Any ideas how that is going to happen, Red?

 

Patty  xo

[[Re...]]

Hello Patty-  Yes, I should be able to get a supply tomorrow, and I WILL feel better when I know I'll be OK for a month or more.  Much more at ease.  I must say, it seemed so easy to take them on my new schedule rather than taking a handful all at once, getting blasted out of my mind, on top of my methadone dose.  I like reality!  I realize that it's a perilous journey ahead for me, but by god, I'm ready.  My wife and I had a great time at the concert we went to (she said she didn't see me nod off at all).  And I remember the concert!  I've been doing this narco-benzo thing for 30 years. I guess I'll need a little luck, too.  I'll try to write here at this site (anxiety) regularly.  Anxiety is what got me started on wanting to escape reality in the first place, so it will be my first stumbling block, (if somethin' goes awry, I'll have to deal with it somehow). You guys have been so helpful to me.  Plesase stay in touch with me, and I hope you all be well and happy.  red

[[Be...]]

Getting blitzed always feels wonderful in the moment and then later you feel like crap, or you have to up your dose- which leads to the same crap. 

It sounds like you have a supply to use to safely taper for a little while and that you held to your schedule.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

You've spoken fondly of your wife- she deserves and is going to LOVE having you present with her once this stuff is out of your system. 

[[Re...]]

Good morning friends-  I'm going to try 3mgs. mg in the morning, 3mgs. afternoon mg., and 2mgs.before bed.  Still 8mgs. Klono per day. I beleive this may work better for me. red

[[Pa...]]

Good for you Red, it's important to experiment a little to find the best dosing schedule along with the best taper schedule, remaining flexible is a key part of this process.

[[Re...]]

Pam-  Thanks for your support.  You take care of yourself, and I'll keep writing at this site.