Jordan Peterson is in rehab for Clonazepam

[[Ja...]]

Are we really bashing Jordan Petersen for being pseudoscience? We do realize that the entire ideology of this forum is based in pseudoscience right? In other words Dr. Heather Ashton = Dr. Jordan Petersen and vica versa. Just sayin.

[[dr...]]

Are we really bashing Jordan Petersen for being pseudoscience? We do realize that the entire ideology of this forum is based in pseudoscience right? In other words Dr. Heather Ashton = Dr. Jordan Petersen and vica versa. Just sayin.

 

As far as I know Ashton was using trial and error and hard work to try to address the suffering that the vast ignorance of the scientific community was leaving all of us in, that even today is not understood by science. Gods work IOW.

 

And Peterson is courting controversy, selling books and getting, and keeping a following.  I don't see the parallels.

[[dr...]]

Really? Because the magazine article he likes comes from a radical leftist publication. Listen, I’m done with this thread. I’m not getting into a twitter war on BenzoBuddies. It’s a sad fact that people won’t put ideology aside for a minute to notice that benzos and health are a bigger issue. And that’s a real shame.

 

I don't see why a thread has to be either about one thing or the other. His ideology is widespread and a thing in the world, as is his problem. He is a big boy and knows that. If he comes on here he will be under a pseudonym anyway. The best outcome, other than avoiding post acute, would be for him to grow from this experience. The people skeptical of him can find him intolerant. Everyone on here grows from this. We just want to know if he will too. 

[[Da...]]

Are we really bashing Jordan Petersen for being pseudoscience? We do realize that the entire ideology of this forum is based in pseudoscience right? In other words Dr. Heather Ashton = Dr. Jordan Petersen and vica versa. Just sayin.

 

You can say it if you want, it doesn't make it true. Ashton had more commitment to science than most doctors, as she wasn't simply concerned about making the case for more drug use and actually wanted to balance harms vs benefits. Most of medical science is not interested in honestly studying harms, let alone quantifying them accurately. Ashton did the best she could with the resources she had. Most "principal investigators", facilitators of randomized trials, professional medical writers and regulators of the pharmaceutical industry are not.

 

As for Peterson, I believe he is ranked in the top 100 academically in his field, so that comparison is pretty generous to Ashton. He is about to go through a worse hell than he has ever been through (after already going through hell with his wife's illness). Whether he learns anything useful from it, and then whether he is honest about his conclusions, will determine if he has any useful criticism of medicine's haphazard use of benzodiazepines. But I wouldn't count on it. He's already endorsed antidepressants and never backtracked after taking them for 20+ years and then coming off fairly quickly (might have something to do with why he can't eat anything other than beef). I'm sure he had plenty of time to look at the actual efficacy of the drugs since then, and learn a thing or two about medical science, but if he has, he hasn't said much about it.

 

Maybe this level of suffering will trigger that curiosity. But I wouldn't expect him to criticize the medical establishment. He seems to really respect doctors and he probably won't be subject to the same gaslighting and lying about the cause of his problems as most on this site are. He'll probably be offered a pretty big settlement, actually...in exchange for signing some sort of non-disclosure agreement.

[[Ja...]]

Geez, I have to admit I misunderstood the definition of pseudoscience. I just looked it up as I donmt use the term often. Yes, I was mistaken, Ashton is NOT pseudoscience. I stand corrected.

However, I agree with Petersen on most everything socially speaking. If he is pro psychiatric drugs then I certainly understand where you are coming from. I guess time will tell what he comes forward about. However, be careful about attacking his ideology. I share most of his ideologies and therefore you are making a personal attack on me and everyone else who agrees with him as well which is about half of the population of the US. Probably half the people on this site.

[[Da...]]

Geez, I have to admit I misunderstood the definition of pseudoscience. I just looked it up as I donmt use the term often. Yes, I was mistaken, Ashton is NOT pseudoscience. I stand corrected.

However, I agree with Petersen on most everything socially speaking. If he is pro psychiatric drugs then I certainly understand where you are coming from. I guess time will tell what he comes forward about. However, be careful about attacking his ideology. I share most of his ideologies and therefore you are making a personal attack on me and everyone else who agrees with him as well which is about half of the population of the US. Probably half the people on this site.

 

Jordan Peterson claims to not have an ideology and has been very critical of ideological thinking because he says it is intellectually lazy and resulted in events like the holocaust and the gulag in the USSR. I'm not attacking any ideology.

[[Ja...]]

All you have done this entire thread is bash the guy and post links to articles bashing the guy.

 

[[Da...]]

All you have done this entire thread is bash the guy and post links to articles bashing the guy.

 

I'll let people read the actual thread and determine if that is true.

[[Ja...]]

Sorry Data Guy, I was mixing you up with someone else. I guess I should just stayed out of this because I am only half paying attention on my phone. I didn’t sleep at all last night and am just stupid and cranky today.

To be clear I am a big fan of Dr. Ashton.

I am also a big fan of Dr. Petersen. I am anti psychiatric meds and disagree with Dr. Petersen in this issue.

Reading the thread over I actually haven’t found too much that I diasgree with at all. I just not on at all today.

[[Fl...]]

Geez, I have to admit I misunderstood the definition of pseudoscience. I just looked it up as I donmt use the term often. Yes, I was mistaken, Ashton is NOT pseudoscience. I stand corrected.

 

Ashton is not pseudoscience, but her field of study is absolutely not mainstream and it is shunned by the medical establishment as a whole. So there is a parallel. And people would do well not to discount that.

 

In another thread someone mentioned that facebook is starting to ban benzo groups. First they ban Nazis, then they come for YOU if you attempt to spread any information that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative. But I'm sure Zuckersperg knows what's best for people who have been harmed by prescription drugs, right?

 

This is exactly what JP is fighting against because he is smart enough to know that they never stop with censoring Nazis.

 

So be careful what you wish for folks. Your ability to speak out and warn others about the harm that has been done to you is in serious jeopardy, whether you realize it or not. And JP is one of the few high profile people who is pushing back against this. But of course, you won't listen because of the media's censorship campaign against him is in full force.

 

See how this works?

[[Fl...]]

If he is pro psychiatric drugs then I certainly understand where you are coming from. I guess time will tell what he comes forward about. However, be careful about attacking his ideology. I share most of his ideologies and therefore you are making a personal attack on me and everyone else who agrees with him as well which is about half of the population of the US. Probably half the people on this site.

 

I have heard him mention the fact that he was on AD's many times and I got the impression that he viewed them as safe and effective. It's the one thing about him that really made me cringe. Lets just hope that this lesson isn't lost on him.

[[Ja...]]

I agree one hundred percent FloridaGuy.

[[Wh...]]

Geez, I have to admit I misunderstood the definition of pseudoscience. I just looked it up as I donmt use the term often. Yes, I was mistaken, Ashton is NOT pseudoscience. I stand corrected.

 

Ashton is not pseudoscience, but her field of study is absolutely not mainstream and it is shunned by the medical establishment as a whole. So there is a parallel. And people would do well not to discount that.

 

In another thread someone mentioned that facebook is starting to ban benzo groups. First they ban Nazis, then they come for YOU if you attempt to spread any information that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative. But I'm sure Zuckersperg knows what's best for people who have been harmed by prescription drugs, right?

This is exactly what JP is fighting against because he is smart enough to know that they never stop with censoring Nazis.

 

So be careful what you wish for folks. Your ability to speak out and warn others about the harm that has been done to you is in serious jeopardy, whether you realize it or not. And JP is one of the few high profile people who is pushing back against this. But of course, you won't listen because of the media's censorship campaign against him is in full force.

 

See how this works?

 

I found that news very frightening for the reason you state.  Before spreading that assertion that one person made about Facebook, I'd want to hear from others who have seen that happen.  I'm not on Facebook anymore so can't validate it myself but would be interested to hear from people who are in Facebook Benzo Groups.

[[Da...]]

Sorry Data Guy, I was mixing you up with someone else. I guess I should just stayed out of this because I am only half paying attention on my phone. I didn’t sleep at all last night and am just stupid and cranky today.

To be clear I am a big fan of Dr. Ashton.

I am also a big fan of Dr. Petersen. I am anti psychiatric meds and disagree with Dr. Petersen in this issue.

Reading the thread over I actually haven’t found too much that I diasgree with at all. I just not on at all today.

 

That's ok, Jack. I hope you are feeling better tomorrow.

[[Fl...]]

I found that news very frightening for the reason you state.  Before spreading that assertion that one person made about Facebook, I'd want to hear from others who have seen that happen.  I'm not on Facebook anymore so can't validate it myself but would be interested to hear from people who are in Facebook Benzo Groups.

 

I would like to know more about it as well. It doesn't surprise me if it is true though because anyone who has been paying attention to big tech's push toward censorship knows that it was only a matter of time before the censorship virus started to spread.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/health/facebook-vaccine-education-bn/index.html

 

If the user is based in the United States, the pop-up window will connect the user to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for credible information on vaccines. If the user is outside of the United States, it will connect them to the World Health Organization.

 

The CDC praised Facebook's latest move to stop misinformation from circulating on its platform.

 

I don't know enough about the anti-vax thing to determine how much truth there is to it but who is facebook to decide what we should and shouldn't see regarding our health?

 

Whether the anti-vaxxers are right or wrong is irrelevant. Once the precedent is set the door is open for anyone with a little money and power to exploit it. Do you think for one minute that big pharma would hesitate to pour some of the billions of dollars they make every year into censorship campaigns to silence anyone who is critical of what they sell?

[[Do...]]

I saw this yesterday on his daughter's youtube channel.  I sent her here which is why I am back because of the great articles and info that I found here.  I am 3 years free.  What a journey.  I am always in wonderment at this idea people have that a one month rehab is all one needs.  Hopefully she can send him this way for REAL support.  Cheers!

[[...]]

I found that news very frightening for the reason you state.  Before spreading that assertion that one person made about Facebook, I'd want to hear from others who have seen that happen.  I'm not on Facebook anymore so can't validate it myself but would be interested to hear from people who are in Facebook Benzo Groups.

 

I would like to know more about it as well. It doesn't surprise me if it is true though because anyone who has been paying attention to big tech's push toward censorship knows that it was only a matter of time before the censorship virus started to spread.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/health/facebook-vaccine-education-bn/index.html

 

If the user is based in the United States, the pop-up window will connect the user to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for credible information on vaccines. If the user is outside of the United States, it will connect them to the World Health Organization.

 

The CDC praised Facebook's latest move to stop misinformation from circulating on its platform.

 

I don't know enough about the anti-vax thing to determine how much truth there is to it but who is facebook to decide what we should and shouldn't see regarding our health?

 

Whether the anti-vaxxers are right or wrong is irrelevant. Once the precedent is set the door is open for anyone with a little money and power to exploit it. Do you think for one minute that big pharma would hesitate to pour some of the billions of dollars they make every year into censorship campaigns to silence anyone who is critical of what they sell?

 

Wow, I wasn't aware of all this happening on FB, I'm quite shocked that this is actually happening to this degree.  Sounds very ominous.

[[no...]]

Are we really bashing Jordan Petersen for being pseudoscience? We do realize that the entire ideology of this forum is based in pseudoscience right? In other words Dr. Heather Ashton = Dr. Jordan Petersen and vica versa. Just sayin.

 

You can say it if you want, it doesn't make it true. Ashton had more commitment to science than most doctors, as she wasn't simply concerned about making the case for more drug use and actually wanted to balance harms vs benefits. Most of medical science is not interested in honestly studying harms, let alone quantifying them accurately. Ashton did the best she could with the resources she had. Most "principal investigators", facilitators of randomized trials, professional medical writers and regulators of the pharmaceutical industry are not.

 

As for Peterson, I believe he is ranked in the top 100 academically in his field, so that comparison is pretty generous to Ashton. He is about to go through a worse hell than he has ever been through (after already going through hell with his wife's illness). Whether he learns anything useful from it, and then whether he is honest about his conclusions, will determine if he has any useful criticism of medicine's haphazard use of benzodiazepines. But I wouldn't count on it. He's already endorsed antidepressants and never backtracked after taking them for 20+ years and then coming off fairly quickly (might have something to do with why he can't eat anything other than beef). I'm sure he had plenty of time to look at the actual efficacy of the drugs since then, and learn a thing or two about medical science, but if he has, he hasn't said much about it.

 

Maybe this level of suffering will trigger that curiosity. But I wouldn't expect him to criticize the medical establishment. He seems to really respect doctors and he probably won't be subject to the same gaslighting and lying about the cause of his problems as most on this site are. He'll probably be offered a pretty big settlement, actually...in exchange for signing some sort of non-disclosure agreement.

 

well put. dr's tend to back up other dr's.

but i do hope he at least learns to help his wd sxs by eating something more balanced.

 

if you only eat meat, no fibrous veggies at all, (as he and his daughter are promoting) i can tell ya from personal experience that it makes you constipated and i mean CONSTIPATED. when i was strict keto (before my  switch to plantbased whole foods), i was so backed up that i literally had to use both daily enemas and over the counter laxatives, malox and miralax etc. which is not natural, not healthy, contributes to body reintoxification from the toxins not leaving the colon regularly/contributes to colon cancer ...and on top of that, the laxatives like malox that contain antacids to stop the cramping etc remove/neutralize much of the medication in the body, so the wd sxs are intensified because it's like you're taking half a dose or less of your medicine. eating nothing but meat is fine for lions. (actually lions eat grass too but i digress) but humans ain't lions. geez louise. dr's are supposed to promote healthy eating habits, not the opposite.

 

maybe his recovery story will include discovering that his diet was horrible and changing it made things uch much better. if it does, then a lot of people will be helped just by hearing him say that.

[[no...]]

All you have done this entire thread is bash the guy and post links to articles bashing the guy.

 

I'll let people read the actual thread and determine if that is true.

 

[[Fl...]]

maybe his recovery story will include discovering that his diet was horrible and changing it made things uch much better. if it does, then a lot of people will be helped just by hearing him say that.

 

A diet that allowed him to lose weight and cured him of lifelong depression and other issues, but since the so called "experts" say it's bad (the same experts that brought you benzos!) it is going to kill him and anyone else who tries it, right?

 

It never fails to surprise me how people who have been harmed by benzos are so quick to discount anything that doesn't jive with other conventional health "wisdom", diet being a prime example.

 

[[Fl...]]

Wow, I wasn't aware of all this happening on FB, I'm quite shocked that this is actually happening to this degree.  Sounds very ominous.

 

I am not a member of any of the FB groups so I don't know anything about it. Hopefully others can chime in to give more details. Matter of fact I think we need a new thread about this. I will start one in Chewing the Fat.

[[co...]]

I am actually more concerned that the rehab will likely try a relatively fast taper on him and he may wind up with protracted symptoms that last a long time and are worse than what he had before.  Generally, rehabs are not advised because they will either try to cold turkey you with other meds to prevent seizures, or do a taper that is way too fast.  Since they are limited in time and coverage by insurance, they typically try to make their treatment fit their time limit, which is far too short.

 

I'm concerned because he said he had horrific symptoms from attempted a cold turkey, so we know he may already be injured and now facing a second round of cold turkey soon.

 

That makes it much more frightening and dangerous for him.

 

So, not sure what the plan is to detox him with but Mikhaila said in the YT video, they will use other medication including short acting benzos to detox him off clonazapam, which she referred to as a long acting benzo. She was under the impression that clonazepam is harder to come off than other benzos too because she apparently easily came off of lorazepam.

 

That makes no sense.  Perhaps the daughter doesn't understand it.  You don't put someone on a shorter acting benzo to detox them.  That is exactly the opposite of what you do.

[[La...]]

As you mention insurance coverage, confuseduser, I'm thinking that Peterson is a Canadian citizen and wouldn't likely have American insurance coverage. He might have money to pay for whatever care he's getting, though. I don't know, but I'm just thinking that might be the case.

 

I do wish him well, but having watched his daughter's video, I find the whole thing rather sad. His daughter doesn't have much in the way of facts. And aside from that, having one's personal life made public might be rather painful. I hope the daughter discussed it with the father before putting out there.

 

I just found this Youtube video made by a New York journalist who is trying to shed some light on the issue and provide some facts. He got some right, which is good -- including the difference between addiction and dependence.

 

[[no...]]

As you mention insurance coverage, confuseduser, I'm thinking that Peterson is a Canadian citizen and wouldn't likely have American insurance coverage. He might have money to pay for whatever care he's getting, though. I don't know, but I'm just thinking that might be the case.

 

I do wish him well, but having watched his daughter's video, I find the whole thing rather sad. His daughter doesn't have much in the way of facts. And aside from that, having one's personal life made public might be rather painful. I hope the daughter discussed it with the father before putting out there.

 

I just found this Youtube video made by a New York journalist who is trying to shed some light on the issue and provide some facts. He got some right, which is good -- including the difference between addiction and dependence.

 

 

he started out right, but then near the end says going into rehab for clonazepam dependence is the "right choice for a mature responsible adult"...

 

um NO. i know what they do to you in mental hospitals/rehabs and it is NOT what i'd wish on anyone needing help to come off of a benzo ...unless i wished them the worst hell on earth via a rapid taper or a week or up to a month (depending on insurance) of tapering off, which leaves the patient then on their own for the real withdrawal hell which occurs at home with nobody to explain what the hell is happening to them. also rehabs and mental hospitals tend to add on other meds to "make the taper process easier" which, as those of us who've been thru this process already know, is not helpful but rather harmful to the patient, as this just adds more drugs for the patient to then have to come off of in addition to the original benzo.  even then, if they just got rapid tapered off in a week to a month's time in rehab, they are gonna suffer tremendously from that. i can't reccomend this guy's video (other than the point you made Lapis that he DID explain the difference between dependance and addiction well). but most people watching this video will think "mature responsible adults" ie SMART people will go to rehab for benzo withdrawal. which isn't helpful. maybe somebody else will make a better video.

[[La...]]

I don't have any experience with that, but I have certainly read similar stories around here. Of course, we have no idea how the particular treatment centre that he is attending works, so we can only cross our fingers and hope that he is getting appropriate treatment and advice.

 

What's puzzling to me is why he chose to go to New York for whatever treatment he is getting. The University of Toronto is about two blocks from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH), as well as other excellent general hospitals (including teaching hospitals associated with the University of Toronto) in the downtown area of the city. Treatment under the care of any of these hospitals would be covered by his provincial health care plan (i.e. without any out-of-pocket expenses).

 

I'm just curious about that.

 

CAMH has some good information about benzodiazepines. I wonder if he received or looked up such information before he began taking them -- especially since he's a psychologist.

 

https://www.camh.ca/en/health-info/mental-illness-and-addiction-index/anti-anxiety-medications-benzodiazepines