Peace-loving Atheists in Wd & Recovery

[[ba...]]

Nomoredrugs for me. I agree with everything you wrote. You also stated it extremely well. There is a great science show called "One Strange Rock," on netflix. One of the best I have seen, it delves into so much new science in a beautiful way. Their is an episode on extinction events, I love how it explains death:A circle of exchanging nutrients, matter and energy that is vital for new life.

 

As to Yoga, don't go to a class. Watch some on YouTube and do them at home. I am an avid practitioner, do it almost daily, and I only do YouTube classes. I credit it with greatly calming me down, getting me out of my head in a way that carries into the time I am not praticing it, and helping me sleep. I do my practice late afternoon to loosen all my tightness, calm my CNS, get quality exercise which is appropriate for me on that day. Sometimes Yin with affirmations, almost puts me to sleep, the ultimate calming coping tool. Other days, I want more of a work out, so hit the Vinyasa, very cardio and very hard. Most days are a mix of Hatha (focus on poses at a moderate pace), Vinyasa and Yin.

 

If you decide to try, I can send you recommendations for classes to get started. If not, that's fine.

 

I am going to delete the questionable parts of my post. I was just rambling on as if I was talking to a friend, but I concur, those sections are not appropriate for this thread,

 

And, no more BOB brain, back to Benzo brain.

 

 

[[Lo...]]

Very well put, Nomore

 

... faith board, they have a lot of people who believe in a wide variety of faiths and they are very welcoming to newcomers.

  Oh dear... Anything but THAT. Simply doesn't "work" for me, though I 'grok' they have kind and helpful intent. I lack the "need to belong" most other people have, and when folks are TOO forward with their "Welcome" - I feel a sales pitch coming and BOLT...

 

... fit the requirements of the group: atheist, no mention of any god/goddess/etc or religious beliefs or their "holy" texts, including higher power 12 steps doctrine.

 

Fully understood and agreed. Of one phrase I "had Autism" (meaning / context / approriate?)  on that I PM'd you - for sake of clarity. And rules are a GOOD thing.

 

Kinda feel like Pop-Eye the Sailor (Or John Prine's "Dear Abby").

 

NWTF0 to KPLA tower, holding pattern. Over.

 

LC

[[Lo...]]

Theism and atheism are more like academic subjects to me, things that are interesting to read about or study, but have no bearing on my daily life whatsoever. I knew nobody who went to church while I was growing up. In fact, when I got to college, I was really surprised at how many religious people I met.

 

Hope2, that doesn't sound "wierd" at all.

 

A & T were academeic for me! First Major was anthropology... But they never "came up in real life" - at big University in FL, anyhow.

 

Never a "thing" growing up in Detroit, with architecture everywhere... HUGE diversity. Folks just went where they went (or not, like our family) but nobody made talk of it. Outside 'Bingo' in some basements, kids selling raffle tickets. Pop just bought one the kid was happy. Invitations? "Poor manners to speak of..."  Maybe 'cause Assembly line can't run smoothly, had Stanley been "Pitching a Sale" to Jack on Union lunch?

 

Now, marooned on "Planet Bible Belt" a joke if one's ELSEwhere There's dunkers or driblers, period. The Dialect's riddled with it. What WAS nobody's business is everyone's concern here. Being asked about, or invited to (it's how they "make friends") is a diplomatic challenge. It's even (ISYN) in the workplace? Paddle faster, I hear the banjo...

 

Very grateful there's a "light from beyond the Twilight Zone" here

 

LC

[[Aj...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

[[Lo...]]

... are very old trees.

 

Let's not forget entropy

 

Yeesh I feel like a wimp in here.

[[no...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

Ajusta

 

i dig the chemtrails in your avatar! (well i don't dig chemtrails, but i dig that you're bringing awareness to them with your avatar!)

20years ago my Hubbs thought i was cuckoo for cocoa puffs when i tried showing him the grids and crosses in the sky and he said the byline "contrails" no matter how many times i explained the difference between the 2. now he knows. it still is shocking how many people don't see them or simply refuse to see them. my father in law said the other day, "contrails" after i mentioned wow today is a big spray day and pointed at the crosshatched sky.  i corrected him but got the same cuckoo look and everyone changed the topic quickly.

 

gaslighting is prevalent everywhere, no matter how true the truth is in front of everyone's faces. it does feel alienating.  but i'd rather be enlightened than willfully ignorant. they say ignorance is bliss, i disagree.

[[ba...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

:laugh: :laugh

 

 

[[Wi...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

 

Ajusta, how beautiful! And profound, actually. The ancients would agree with you (as do I). 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trees_in_mythology

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

 

The Wisdom of Trees: Mysteries, Magic, and Medicine (Jane Gifford)

 

Sorry, I don't mean to barge in on this thread, although I enjoy very much reading the discussions. (I wanted to bookmark Ajusta's comment.) I grew up on Enid Blyton, enchanted woods, faraway trees, wishing trees, and Tolkien's Two Trees of Valinor. The tree is a universal, inclusive, life-affirming symbol -- even the smallest child gets the magic of trees.... Deeply rooted in the collective unconscious. Branching out naturally. No labels required.

 

🍂 🌱

 

 

[[no...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

 

Ajusta, how beautiful! And profound, actually. The ancients would agree with you (as do I). 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trees_in_mythology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

The Wisdom of Trees: Mysteries, Magic, and Medicine (Jane Gifford)

 

Sorry, I don't mean to barge in on this thread, although I enjoy very much reading the discussions. (I wanted to bookmark Ajusta's comment.) I grew up on Enid Blyton, enchanted woods, faraway trees, wishing trees, and Tolkien's Two Trees of Valinor. The tree is a universal, inclusive, life-affirming symbol -- even the smallest child gets the magic of trees.... Deeply rooted in the collective unconscious. Branching out naturally. No labels required.

 

🍂 🌱

 

wildfolower

 

this support group is for Atheists, who (as i clearly stated on page 1 and 2 of the posts on this support group thread), do not want any mention of god/gods/goddesses/magic/"pagan or earth-based",other religions/new-agey or 12 step , or any other "deified" practices or dogma or ideology and their texts/holy writings, and that this is our safe space in which to discuss our Recovery and Withdrawing from drugs which harmed us, as has been approved by Colin, the creator of BB and pianogirl, a moderator at BB. you deliberately came in to distract and divert the thread from its purpose, knowing full well that others can see your disparaging comments filled with choice derogatory words about the current moderators (on other threads of BB). i don't appreciate you coming into our safe space and disrespecting the basic tenets laid out clearly in the first page of the thread. you say whatever you wish on other threads, (although there are rules against being hateful on BB) however do not follow me into a safe space support group to stir the pot. we are "Peace Loving Atheists". 

 

since you:

1. are not an atheist, and

2. believe in magic, and

3. are promoting "Sacred mythology" texts, and

4. disrespect moderators of BB, your posts are not welcome here.

 

it would be nice to put the 2nd commercial break behind us, and return to the topic of "Peace Loving Atheists in Withdrawal & Recovery"

 

i believe baddove was talking about how hatha yoga helps to "loosen all my tightness, calm my CNS, get quality exercise which is appropriate for me on that day"? that sounds like a path to go for, something not too cardio, but a little more challenging than just sitting on the floor stretching, lol! (which i do anyway to loosen up the muscles each morning)

[[no...]]

Nomoredrugs for me. I agree with everything you wrote. You also stated it extremely well. There is a great science show called "One Strange Rock," on netflix. One of the best I have seen, it delves into so much new science in a beautiful way. Their is an episode on extinction events, I love how it explains death:A circle of exchanging nutrients, matter and energy that is vital for new life.

 

As to Yoga, don't go to a class. Watch some on YouTube and do them at home. I am an avid practitioner, do it almost daily, and I only do YouTube classes. I credit it with greatly calming me down, getting me out of my head in a way that carries into the time I am not praticing it, and helping me sleep. I do my practice late afternoon to loosen all my tightness, calm my CNS, get quality exercise which is appropriate for me on that day. Sometimes Yin with affirmations, almost puts me to sleep, the ultimate calming coping tool. Other days, I want more of a work out, so hit the Vinyasa, very cardio and very hard. Most days are a mix of Hatha (focus on poses at a moderate pace), Vinyasa and Yin.

 

If you decide to try, I can send you recommendations for classes to get started.

 

cool i'll check out the show. do you have any favorite youtube yoga vids for strengthening muscles but without cardio?...i am really flexible, however my muscles are getting mushy. i'm kinda anti-affirmations but i can get down with the health benefits of the practice of yoga. i'm reading a book a friend sent me about a famous yogi or guru that i am taking it w/a big grain of salt. i reserve judgement until i've read it all. there's so much i don't know! i jsut recognized his name and his face on the bookjacket from you tube clips. i have a natural aversion to all things "guru" or "leader/teacher/preacher etc..so i kinda don't wanna hear what he has to say ya know? but it was a gift so i'm reading it.  i still have a bucnh of religious books from past misadventures but i haven't thrown them out cause they sortof "timestamped" my learing experiences. i write tons of notes in the book margins a\so it's a \fairly accurate log of where i was and how i was feeling and thinking at the time.

[[Wi...]]

 

wildfolower

 

this support group is for Atheists, who (as i clearly stated on page 1 and 2 of the posts on this support group thread), do not want any mention of god/gods/goddesses/magic/"pagan or earth-based",other religions/new-agey or 12 step , or any other "deified" practices or dogma or ideology and their texts/holy writings, and that this is our safe space in which to discuss our Recovery and Withdrawing from drugs which harmed us, as has been approved by Colin, the creator of BB and pianogirl, a moderator at BB. you deliberately came in to distract and divert the thread from its purpose, knowing full well that others can see your disparaging comments filled with choice derogatory words about the current moderators (on other threads of BB). i don't appreciate you coming into our safe space and disrespecting the basic tenets laid out clearly in the first page of the thread. you say whatever you wish on other threads, (although there are rules against being hateful on BB) however do not follow me into a safe space support group to stir the pot. we are "Peace Loving Atheists". 

 

since you:

1. are not an atheist, and

2. believe in magic, and

3. are promoting "Sacred mythology" texts, and

4. disrespect moderators of BB, your posts are not welcome here.

 

 

nomore, my post was clearly a brief aside on Ajusta's remark, and not promoting any particular beliefs in any way. I have enjoyed following the discussions on this thread, which have often centered on people's take on atheism, agnosticism, etc. -- as opposed to just withdrawal. I merely provided a link to cultural traditions from the past regarding the symbolic interpretation (and medicinal uses) of trees, for goodness' sake.

 

I do not presume to label you, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

 

1. You have no idea whether I am Christian, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, or any other label whatsoever, as we have never discussed it.

 

2. You (nor anyone else) do not have a monopoly on the word 'magic'. As defined in the dictionary, synonyms can include 'enchantment', 'captivating', 'wonder', 'charm', etc. -- which was how my post intended it. The word 'ancients' refers to people who lived in distant times, as per any dictionary.

 

3. I am not 'promoting' any 'sacred mythology' texts. I do not see fairy tales and world literature (Blyton, Tolkien, descriptive wikipedia entries, etc.) as falling in that category, and I doubt that anyone else here does. I do not view an intellectual interest in historical world mythologies as religious/'deified'/'new-agey', but as the study of cultural traditions, archaeology, folklore, and archetypal symbolism. I concede that we may have a different view on that, and I'll refrain from posting here again, for that reason.

 

4. I have never disrespected the moderators on this forum. If I disagree with a decision (or feel that a moderator should step in, and have not done so), I state so directly and clearly, before letting it go. I resent your implication that I am 'being hateful on BB'.

 

I wish to make it clear that, in no way, do I discriminate against anyone on the basis of their beliefs. My own beliefs defy facile categorization and I'm comfortable with that. My only criterion is how people act ('peace-loving', compassionate). I couldn't care less about what they profess to 'believe'. I appreciate tolerance and enjoy diversity and stimulating debate, but I understand now that this thread is not intended for that purpose.

 

I am reporting your post, as I don't appreciate being attacked and slandered ('being hateful on BB' and 'disrespecting moderators').

 

Best,

Wildflower

[[no...]]

 

wildfolower

 

this support group is for Atheists, who (as i clearly stated on page 1 and 2 of the posts on this support group thread), do not want any mention of god/gods/goddesses/magic/"pagan or earth-based",other religions/new-agey or 12 step , or any other "deified" practices or dogma or ideology and their texts/holy writings, and that this is our safe space in which to discuss our Recovery and Withdrawing from drugs which harmed us, as has been approved by Colin, the creator of BB and pianogirl, a moderator at BB. you deliberately came in to distract and divert the thread from its purpose, knowing full well that others can see your disparaging comments filled with choice derogatory words about the current moderators (on other threads of BB). i don't appreciate you coming into our safe space and disrespecting the basic tenets laid out clearly in the first page of the thread. you say whatever you wish on other threads, (although there are rules against being hateful on BB) however do not follow me into a safe space support group to stir the pot. we are "Peace Loving Atheists". 

 

since you:

1. are not an atheist, and

2. believe in magic, and

3. are promoting "Sacred mythology" texts, and

4. disrespect moderators of BB, your posts are not welcome here.

 

nomore, my post was clearly an aside on Ajusta's remark, and not promoting any particular beliefs in any way.

 

 

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

 

Ajusta, how beautiful! And profound, actually. The ancients would agree with you (as do I). 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trees_in_mythology

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

 

The Wisdom of Trees: Mysteries, Magic, and Medicine (Jane Gifford)

 

Sorry, I don't mean to barge in on this thread, although I enjoy very much reading the discussions. (I wanted to bookmark Ajusta's comment.) I grew up on Enid Blyton, enchanted woods, faraway trees, wishing trees, and Tolkien's Two Trees of Valinor. The tree is a universal, inclusive, life-affirming symbol -- even the smallest child gets the magic of trees.... Deeply rooted in the collective unconscious. Branching out naturally. No labels required.

 

🍂 🌱

 

so let's get this straight, you came into an Atheist Support Group posting 2 separate links to wikipedia about mythology and axis mundi which deals with heaven and "Mount Kailash, depicting the holy family: Shiva and Parvati, cradling Skanda with Ganesha by Shiva's side"and a book/text promoting ideologies that, by your own admission, you and "The Ancients" agree with, which is anathema to the core tenets of this group...and yet you deny having done so. see your own post quoted above.

 

I merely provided a link to cultural traditions from the past regarding the symbolic interpretation (and medicinal uses) of trees, for goodness' sake.

 

actually...you provided a link to THIS book:

The Wisdom of Trees: Mysteries, Magic, and Medicine (Jane Gifford)

...a book which, by its title alone, gives up the belief that trees have wisdom, including mysteries and magic and medicine.

 

I do not presume to label you, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

 

1. You have no idea whether I am Christian, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, or any other label whatsoever, as we have never discussed it.

 

you're obviously not an atheist because of all the stuff you just posted (and denied posting).  there are plenty of other faiths, on the faith based board, and if there is not one that suits your particular belief system you are free to create a new one. this one was created with much careful thought, and assistance from Colin and pianogrrl, and with advice and help other former/mods/admins.

 

the very same thing that you are doing here, (creating drama, distracting from the group's clearly outlined basic tenets, stirring the pot), is why this group was created. we aren't interested in all of that distraction from our WD, healing and recovery. we wanted a place free of that stuff so we could come and also not be triggered by religious talk INCLUDING magic, earth based religion, deity talk, and the texts or books which deal with the same. there is another atheist support group where the type of debate you enjoy is abundantly available. ~AND ANYWAYS~ you HAVE INDEED disrespected the moderators on BB and now have denied it. i have no respect nor tolerance for that, irregardless of whether you are a theist or atheist.

This is no longer a healing forum -- and the current moderation (if you can call it that, even) is pathetic/non-existent. This is supposed to be a place of healing. It would be laughable if it weren't so heartbreaking and abhorrent.

 

With love,

Ruby / Wildflower

 

2. You (nor anyone else) do not have a monopoly on the word 'magic'. As defined in the dictionary, synonyms can include 'enchantment', 'captivating', 'wonder', 'charm', etc. -- which was how my post intended it. The word 'ancients' refers to people who lived in distant times, as per any dictionary.

 

i never claimed to. it is quite clear what your post intended. we are a pretty intelligent lot on this Support Group. we aren't easily fooled by attempts to divert or deny.

 

3. I am not 'promoting' any 'sacred mythology' texts. I do not see fairy tales and world literature (Blyton, Tolkien, descriptive wikipedia entries, etc.) as falling in that category, and I doubt that anyone else here does. I do not view an intellectual interest in world mythologies as religious/'deified'/'new-agey' (or any other tired old label), but as the study of cultural traditions, archaeology, folklore, and archetypal symbolism. I concede that we may have a different view on that, and will refrain from posting here again, for that reason.

 

well i am so glad to hear that you won't be repeating this as it's become quite tedious going back and copy/pasting/quoting your posts and pointing out the discrepancies in your "story".

4. I have never disrespected the moderators on this forum. If I disagree with a decision (or feel that a moderator should step in, and have not done so), I state so directly and clearly, before letting it go. I resent your implication that I am 'being hateful on BB'.

 

invalidating the work of the current moderators and saying their hard work is "non-existant" and calling them "pathetic...laughable, heartbreaking and abhorrent" ...that's pretty darn hateful in my book. also against BB rules, and also in poor taste. i could add more. i'm being polite about it.

-- and the current moderation (if you can call it that, even) is pathetic/non-existent.

 

This is no longer a healing forum -- and the current moderation (if you can call it that, even) is pathetic/non-existent. This is supposed to be a place of healing. It would be laughable if it weren't so heartbreaking and abhorrent.

 

With love,

Ruby / Wildflower

 

I wish to make it clear that, in no way, do I discriminate against anyone on the basis of their beliefs. My own beliefs defy facile categorization and I'm comfortable with that. My only criterion is how people act ('peace-loving' and respectfully). I really couldn't care less about what they profess to 'believe'. I appreciate tolerance and enjoy diversity and stimulating debate, but I understand now that this thread is not intended for that purpose.

 

BINGO. 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=90318.0

 

hey thank you Colin,

i saw this in the results but it turned into a hatefest towards the religious members, so i wanted to make a new one that's specifically "hater-free", so maybe people would know this one is for atheists who don't want to discuss religion or argue with other non-atheists, just keep it strictly about recovery.

 

is this okay?  there is a need for a nonpolitical/nonreligious atheist recovery support group.

 

and one more last word from our dogged debater of "tree magic, mysteries, the Ancients, heaven, Shiva, Parvati, Ganesha, and various other mythological religions/gods/goddesses etc from wikipedia"  that i'm sure we are waiting with baited breath to receive:

I am reporting your post, as I don't appreciate being attacked and slandered ('being hateful on BB' and 'disrespecting moderators').

 

Best,

Wildflower

 

  you can present your claim of being "attacked" along with your claim of being "slandered", and i'll let your own words in your own posts speak for themselves.

 

[[no...]]

and now, for some much needed brevity and levity: 

 

_{Edit: link removed}

[[Wi...]]

The moderators are well aware of the context of my former comments -- the bullying behaviour displayed towards another BB member (as you well know) -- and they stepped in once they became aware of the situation.

 

I appreciated their intervention, as I realised they had been inundated with dealing with new members (hence the seemingly 'non-existent' moderation at the time). I called the bullying incident 'abhorrent' and 'heart-breaking', not the moderation. Please do not quote me out of context.

 

I have reported your post.

[[Co...]]

Hello nomoredrugsforme,

 

You are the OP, or original/opening poster, or topic starter - this does not mean that the thread belongs to you. Irrespective, your tirade upon Wildflower33 is totally unjustified. There is no suggestion that Wildflower33 was trying push some kind religious agenda. I think it is unrealistic to expect no oblique comments to theistic beliefs in a thread dedicated to atheism. WF's comments relate to a previous post, so there was context.

 

Although we prefer threads to largely remain on topic, we are not hardcore about this. We allow for threads to meander some, especially more chatty (non-support) threads such as this. Even you, nomoredrugsforme, went into what most of us would consider beliefs not based in fact only a few posts before:

 

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

Ajusta

 

i dig the chemtrails in your avatar! (well i don't dig chemtrails, but i dig that you're bringing awareness to them with your avatar!)

20years ago my Hubbs thought i was cuckoo for cocoa puffs when i tried showing him the grids and crosses in the sky and he said the byline "contrails" no matter how many times i explained the difference between the 2. now he knows. it still is shocking how many people don't see them or simply refuse to see them. my father in law said the other day, "contrails" after i mentioned wow today is a big spray day and pointed at the crosshatched sky.  i corrected him but got the same cuckoo look and everyone changed the topic quickly.

 

gaslighting is prevalent everywhere, no matter how true the truth is in front of everyone's faces. it does feel alienating.  but i'd rather be enlightened than willfully ignorant. they say ignorance is bliss, i disagree.

 

Worse, 'chem-trails' is conspiracy theory, a particularly pernicious subset of baseless beliefs. And as such, they are unwelcome at this forum. There are all manner of legitimate reasons for which we might rail against our governments without the need to resort to nonsense.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chemtrails

 

I probably would not have bothered tackling the references to conspiracy theory in this thread if they were quickly dropped. However, when you badger another member for more oblique references to beliefs (particularly when they appear to also acknowledge their literary and/or fantastical origins), it does invite critique of analogous comments which in other circumstances I probably would have let go.

 

I have no idea to what you refer when you mention Wildeflower33's 'derogatory comments about BB moderators' in other threads. If there is something worth reporting/flagging, report/flag it. Irrespective, any such alleged incidents are completely irrelevant to this thread and your disagreement with WF.

[[ba...]]

Much thanks to Colin for stepping in. I missed all the drama, was off BB for a day or two. Everyone please respect what he stated, and lets move on. As a moderator, I support Colin's opinion.  I am not going to get into any argument between posters, and I sincerely hope the two of you choose to go forward in a positive way. Sometimes the things we are thinking about or reading touch on religion, and can be interesting, not proselytizing or even promotional, rather, throwing out an idea. Let it go. Also, we don't always interpret what someone posts in the way they meant it, just human nature.

 

And seriously, you 2 quit reporting each other, save it for infractions of Benzobuddies codes of conduct. This is an opportunity to make peace with each other, would be proud of you both if you choose to do so. You both  have much to offer in this forum.

 

nomoredrugsforme about YouTube Yoga. Most yoga is secular, some references to Prana and Chi, those are not religious topics in nature. Chi is our breath, Prana is the life force that keeps everything going. Chakras and meridians are occasionally brought up, but as a focal point for an area of the body to work on, there is not proselytizing of Hinduism. Some teachers endorse some woo-woo, but it is minimal, and not a distraction.

 

The affirmation s are along the lines of, "Today I choose to Heal." They are to point us in a positive direction as well as remind us we have the power to be positive in the midst of whatever. We are the masters of our minds, and affirmations, like some meditation, can help bring us back to being the boss, not the intrusive and fearful clouds of benzo crap that assault us.  I took that affirmation directly from one of the Yin classes I do quite a bit when I need to get out of dark thinking.

 

I highly recommend you go through Yoga with Adrian, she has many entry level classes, numerous 30 day sessions, and is a delight.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFKE7WVJfvaHW5q283SxchA

 

Next, Psyche truth. It is a Canadian school with many teachers and styles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/psychetruth

 

The creator of the school has anxiety disorder, and has classes on breathing, calming down panic, etc. The range of options is vast. I really like several of the teachers, others, not so much.

 

So Yoga 101.

1. It's about breathing. Here is a class teaching several types of breathing for anxiety and stress by the founder, great easy way to get started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzzp1gxZd0U&list=PLnQJb5upR8D6Mk8U9UeaejH87pM6z_0-y&index=43&t=426s

 

2. It's about relaxing your body, hence calming down your nervous system. This teacher is not affiliated with Psyche truth, but I use a lot of her classes. Yin is very good for this. Here is an example, also a good intro for you into Yin:

 

 

We carry a lot of muscle tension and generally have poor posture, and Yoga is great for loosening and learning better alignment. It is helpful for our chronic tightness. I use it to calm, to maintain muscle strength, to continue increasing strength and flexibility, and to loosen up at the end of the day. I use David's breathing for anxiety classes and others like it to get through bad sxs. I find after an hour of Yoga, my sxs calm down. Seriously. It's also great for a bad mood or panicked thinking or depression.

 

I start with something like Davids breathing class, an "emergency," session, then move on to Hatha or Vinyasa, then wrap up with a Yin class. My sessions are about 1.5 hours, but that's because I spend a lot of time in Yoga. It is what gets me through. On non emergency days, I skip the anxiety classes and just play and have fun. It feels as good as dancing. Some days I only do a 30 minute class , I'm just not in the mood, or too fatigued when the benzo exhaustion hits. . However, I do Yoga pretty consistently because it works for getting me through withdraw, and it works for my fitness. My physical therapist and I often spend our sessions just doing yoga. I am in PT for degenerative discs in my neck, chronic migraines, and arthritis. Exercise, including strengthening are the remedies for working around my physical limitations and allow me to remain active. I am an avid cyclist, gym rat, and Yogi.

 

 

3. It's get strong and get fit  at a level appropriate for each person. Hatha yoga is a good place to start warming up those unused muscles and learning postures. You can find Hatha classes in Yoga with Adrian, Psyche truth, and other places.  This is where you will probably spend most of your time until you feel ready to do the advanced and cardio inducing classes, either Vinyasa or Power Yoga. That wont happen for quite a while. Hatha in itself is enough for many people.

 

Regardless, these teachers will have some of everything on their sites, they present information in a teaching manner, and Yoga does feel good. Yoga not only calms, mostly through breathing, but through distraction and exercise, all very beneficial. And it's versatile. Once you have learned several poses, you can do the ones you like the most when a class presents a pose you don't like. The beauty of doing Yoga via YouTube is that you don't have to follow the teacher and are free to "go off the rails," into your own postures at any time.

 

I love that when I am in a wave of exhaustion, I can still exercise via Yin Yoga. And when I want more of a workout and release, I can do Hatha or Vinyasa.

 

Good luck, let me know how it goes.

 

 

 

 

 

[[Aj...]]

I’ve recently decided that the closest things we have to gods are very old trees.

 

Ajusta, how beautiful! And profound, actually. The ancients would agree with you (as do I). 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trees_in_mythology

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi

 

The Wisdom of Trees: Mysteries, Magic, and Medicine (Jane Gifford)

 

Sorry, I don't mean to barge in on this thread, although I enjoy very much reading the discussions. (I wanted to bookmark Ajusta's comment.) I grew up on Enid Blyton, enchanted woods, faraway trees, wishing trees, and Tolkien's Two Trees of Valinor. The tree is a universal, inclusive, life-affirming symbol -- even the smallest child gets the magic of trees.... Deeply rooted in the collective unconscious. Branching out naturally. No labels required.

 

🍂 🌱

 

 

I loved the Enid Blyton books as a child as well.

 

 

I have just listened to the audio book of ‘The Over Story’ by Richard Powers which is a novel about trees. Very moving. It won the Pulitzer Proze recently so of any of you can read or listen to books I highly recommend it.

 

It contains a lot of science about the intelligence of trees - amazing stuff.

 

I have asked my friends to try to find a way to plant a tree in every country in the world if I die. Ha I g been largely housebound since 1996 I miss the world so much and think it needs more trees.

 

I have had a red Acer in a pit for about 25 years. Live in rented flat so had to keepin a pit.

 

I want it planted and my ashes with it.

[[Aj...]]

Can I ask if any of you had doubts about lack of after-life etc while in WD? When bad and mybrain wants out of my body and terrified of death I had feeling that I was separate from my body and would go somewhere else, and had co e from somewhere else, also had weird demonic stuff.

 

It all terrifies me and made me question my beliefs. Probably al, weird brain stuff.

 

I am aware that ‘religious’ experiences can be created using magnets on areas of brain so I’m sure WD can cause such odd things as feeling there is an evil presence around or in self etc.

[[ba...]]

Ajusta. This is withdraw. Quoting from the Ashton Manual (https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#9):

 

Depersonalisation, derealisation. Feelings of depersonalisation and of unreality are associated with benzodiazepine withdrawal, although they also occur in anxiety states. They occur most often during over-rapid withdrawal from potent benzodiazepines and are, anecdotally, particularly marked on withdrawal from clonazepam (Klonopin). In these states, the person seems detached from his body and seems almost to be observing it from the outside. Similar experiences are described in near-death states when the individual feels that he is hovering above his body, detached from the events occurring below. They are also described by people involved in extreme emergencies and in individuals subjected to torture. They are clearly not specific to benzodiazepines.

 

Such experiences probably represent a normal defensive reaction evolved as a protection against intolerable suffering. They may involve a primitive brain mechanism similar to the "freezing" of some animals when presented with an inescapable danger. Like other benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms, these feelings resolve in time and should not be interpreted as abnormal or crazy.

 

Hallucinations, illusions, perceptual distortions. The benzodiazepine withdrawal symptom that raises most fear of going mad is hallucination. Terrifying hallucinations have occurred in people undergoing rapid or abrupt withdrawal from high doses, but the reader can be reassured that they are exceedingly rare with slow dosage tapering as outlined in Chapter II. If hallucinations occur, they are usually visual - patients have described hallucinations of a large bat sitting on the shoulder, or the appearance of horns sprouting from a human head - but auditory, olfactory and tactile hallucinations can also occur. Somewhat less frightening are hallucinations of small creatures, usually insects, which may be associated with the sensations of insects crawling on the skin (similar hallucinations occur in cocaine and amphetamine withdrawal). Sometimes hallucinations merge with illusions and misperceptions. For example, a coat hanging on the door may give the illusion of being a person. Floors apparently tilting and walls that seem to slope inwards are perceptual distortions.

 

The mechanisms of these bizarre symptoms are probably similar to those which cause delirium tremens (hallucinations, classically of pink elephants or rats, in the "DTs" of alcohol withdrawal). As mentioned in Chapter I, benzodiazepines cause profound perturbations throughout the brain, and abrupt withdrawal may be accompanied by uncontrolled release of dopamine, serotonin and other neurotransmitters which cause hallucinations in psychotic disorders as well as in alcohol withdrawal and cocaine, amphetamine and LSD abuse.

 

Once the hallucinations, which seem real at the time, are recognised as "merely" hallucinations, they quickly become less alarming. They do not herald the onset of madness; they are simply instances of benzodiazepines playing tricks on the brain which will right itself in time. A good mentor can usually reassure and "talk down" a person suffering from benzodiazepine withdrawal-induced hallucinations. In any case they should not worry anyone undergoing slow withdrawal.

 

I had a few severe bouts, many more mild ones.

 

It is not demonic, my sweet, it is withdraw. It is horrifying.  Going to research and see if I can find something that helps.

 

:smitten:

 

[[Gu...]]

Wow...some people just don't know when to stop...the lack of respect is absolutely appalling...what on earth are you people thinking

[[Aj...]]

Thanks Bad dove.

 

I’m on Clonazepam again now as muscle stuff was on benzo for is too bad so probably going to have to go through all that horror again.

 

Terrifying!

 

 

[[ba...]]

Ajusta.

 

First, thank you for telling us what your going through. Even if we can't fix it, we are with you, we care deeply, and we respect your courage at talking about it.

 

Throughout the whole of BenzoBuddies, people report depersonalization and derealization.  I could not find a support group.

 

I did find one article that might help, at the very least, you will know this is withdraw, not anything else. The positive is that it will decrease. In the following link the remedies for coping may not seem like enough, but try them.

 

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/coping/withdrawal-induced-depersonalization-quick-tips

 

At the bottom are 2 boxes, one for Depersonalization and one for Derealization. Click on them both for coping tools and further links.

 

I have learned through 3 years of tapering, and mostly sucking at it, that new symptoms crop up. For a long time, my vestibular system was very bad, and everything was waving, floating or turning upside down. That was awful. After a few months it calmed, but then a new withdraw experience emerged. This has been a pattern. It is a common one. So, your Dp and Dr will pass of their own in time.

 

The crux is how to get through them. We accept. We don't fight it. We accept it is temporary. We believe we will get through what is our body is doing to heal.

 

I now want to give you some immediate peace, and maybe even cry time by having you listen to Baylisa at Bloom in Wellness, She went through this, and now treats people in benzo withdraw. She has several short videos addressing the process, and several meditations. I don't know which one or ones will make you feel understood, so leaving it up to you. I have done her meditations, and the tears flowed (crying releases cortisol and other anxiety inducing chemicals) It felt like I was being gentle nurtured by someone who totally gets it with her meditations.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAW2oQe7UBezwClW_nPyP6A

[[Aj...]]

Thanks! This is not a big problem atm as had to go back on but having horrific paradoical effects,

 

My main problem is muscles as that was why was on Benzos, also all senses are wrong including tactile and mouth sensation, co start frenzied eating and terror of everything g including g touching g things.

 

But it is the spinal and muscle stuff that is preventing g me getting off. Literally crushing spine - shows on MRI.

[[ba...]]

It's rough. For muscle and even skeletal issues I have used physical therapy for years. I find it very effective not only in immediate release of whatever is going on  and hurting me, but ongoing exercise routines and other treatments.

 

Probably worth trying to deal with muscle and spinal issues. I much prefer PT to any surgeries, and the stats show that surgies are not always very effective.

 

As to tactile sensitivity, I am familiar with it, and don't have an answer, but I don't think it's benzo's.

 

As to sxs, it's part of the process. We all have them, they all suck. This is where we move into coping skills and distraction. Breathing exercises absolutely calm down the nervous system. Then comes exercise, but only what one can do without causing injury. Then comes working to a point of acceptance in whatever paths you choose. I read some good books early on, and studied the links in here on the brain and exercise, withdraw symptoms and coping. I then started working with a therapist to help cope. There's no such thing as too many resources and practices to get us through.

 

I too, get a lot of paradox doses, so I share that sxs with you. There is no scientific definitive known cause. I find I have to slightly alter my doses every 2 days to work around a paradox. sometimes by just .12, other times .25.

 

-Peace

 

 

 

 

[[so...]]

I realize that some controversy took place, but I miss Nomoredrugsforme, who started this thread.  I hope she returns for her own support.

 

Sofa