Peace-loving Atheists in Wd & Recovery

[[ea...]]

Getting off benzos was the most utterly awful thing I have ever gone through. But I am NOT sorry about this, because in the process of healing and recovering from a CT off  Klonapin and Ambien, I slowly came to realize how much BETTER I feel now. I am a helluva lot happier now, minimal anxiety and NO depression. That benzos caused this in me is truly a staggering realization. So, yes, getting off benzos was the BEST thing I ever did.

 

Nomoredrugs for me, "bump" is one of those nerdy words that simply means that if you RESPOND to a thread, it moves it up in line so it will be read by a lot more people. For example: I write an entry in my Blog, and later on read a [post that deserves extra attention. ON that thread I refer them to  my Blog, and then go TO my Blog and make a short entry, just to "bump it up" to the to the top of that page.

 

So much of internet Internet jargon is silly and I always picture a bunch of young men and women sitting around making up silly new words to various functions and processes on the Net...nerdy types. I bet they all laugh their asses off at times, picturing us "normal" people attempting to figure out HOW to do something online.

east

[[no...]]

Baddove

 

bob or boob brain?

 

if it has boobs it's a boob brain or is it boob as in "oh he's such a boob" (dork) ?

 

either way i guess it applies here, since i could'a just scolled back and say we'd had the conversation duh

 

boob with boobs 

 

[[ba...]]

 

Bob brain was actually a joke started by the mods, yes I was a bad influence. Since boob brain means you can’t remember anyone’s name, even your own, we are all Bob. Boob brain has 42 possible permutations, great enhancement of Bob brain. Essentially, it’s an excuse for any stupid thing  we do,

Make them laugh while you explain you put a plastic Tupperware in the oven to defrost a casserole, that’s why the oven is dripping melted plastic. It made sense to your boob brain at the time.

 

-Bob the boob

[[no...]]

 

Bob brain was actually a joke started by the mods, yes I was a bad influence. Since boob brain means you can’t remember anyone’s name, even your own, we are all Bob. Boob brain has 42 possible permutations, great enhancement of Bob brain. Essentially, it’s an excuse for any stupid thing  we do,

Make them laugh while you explain you put a plastic Tupperware in the oven to defrost a casserole, that’s why the oven is dripping melted plastic. It made sense to your boob brain at the time.

 

-Bob the boob

 

now it all makes sense!

[[Mo...]]

I've been thinking more and more about the unforeseen benefits of Benzo withdrawal.  I wonder if this process, like many others that take people out of the ordinary, brings out or augments qualities we already possess.  When I am mindful of it, I strive to be patient, understanding, tolerant, etc.  But when all things are relatively equal, my reactions go elsewhere.  In an attempt to feel more calm, less stressed, and less anxious I have to be less reactive, more tolerant, more patient and more philosophical.  I have to see the effort people are putting forth as opposed to their incompetence.  I have to consider a person's circumstances prior to judging his or her actions.  When someone is inconveniencing me I have to say "she has bigger problems than I do".  And it goes on.

 

Now!  If I can just move on to not judging people who aren't here yet and are reacting like I used to!  BTW, I still have lots of room to grow...

 

Monray60         

[[ba...]]

Great post Monray, thank you.

 

I see humility and wisdom in the folks responding to my query, "How has withdraw changed you for the better."

 

Our shared horrific situation has made us expand and develop compassion and a changed perspective in order to cope. There is a short Ted talks about resilience I appreciate. The primary components are:

 

a) 7:10 - acceptance/acknowledgement of situation as part of life (Life is hard, period, we all encounter trauma.)

b) 8:18 - selections attention (focus on things you can change/ on positive things, e.g. name three things you are/were grateful for)

c) 12:20 - "is what you are doing helping or harming you?" (control over situation/ be kind to yourself/ according to speakers experience - most powerful/useful tool)

 

The speaker also talks about being the navigator of her grief and pain, trusting intuitively in ones own ability to learn to cope, and self reliance, which in my mind, is discovering the depths of strength one has no idea that they have.

 

Here is the link, it's about 15 minutes:

 

Feeling very down today, my 27 year old son (my youngest of 4 children)  has schizophrenia, and has been off his meds for 6 months. The strain is wearing on his 3 siblings, me and my husband. We have exhausted every option in trying to get him to reinstate , he is sliding down the slope of his illness, and it is very difficult for us to see what is happening.

 

As to my own slower than a snail taper, I am looking at the little gains I make, and focusing on those. Also, accepting that it takes time to see change when one makes a reduction. I have cut my first dose by .25, and stopped taking seroquel in the afternoon to get through the withdraw. I choose to look at what I am doing, and how I am adapting to those changes rather than negatives in my taper.

 

Peace out fellow travelers

[[no...]]

I've been thinking more and more about the unforeseen benefits of Benzo withdrawal. I wonder if this process, like many others that take people out of the ordinary, brings out or augments qualities we already possess.  When I am mindful of it, I strive to be patient, understanding, tolerant, etc.  But when all things are relatively equal, my reactions go elsewhere.  In an attempt to feel more calm, less stressed, and less anxious I have to be less reactive, more tolerant, more patient and more philosophical.  I have to see the effort people are putting forth as opposed to their incompetence.  I have to consider a person's circumstances prior to judging his or her actions.  When someone is inconveniencing me I have to say "she has bigger problems than I do".  And it goes on.

 

Now!  If I can just move on to not judging people who aren't here yet and are reacting like I used to!  BTW, I still have lots of room to grow...

 

Monray60       

 

Monray i'm so glad to have you in my life via this BB board!

these revelations are very deep.

 

especially the acknowledgement of realizing your own stage of growth, being patient and trying to understand, to come from a point of understanding instead of judgement, because they/we are all in different stages of oor growth and awareness.

 

thank you so much for sharing this

[[no...]]

Great post Monray, thank you.

 

I see humility and wisdom in the folks responding to my query, "How has withdraw changed you for the better."

 

Our shared horrific situation has made us expand and develop compassion and a changed perspective in order to cope. There is a short Ted talks about resilience I appreciate. The primary components are:

 

a) 7:10 - acceptance/acknowledgement of situation as part of life (Life is hard, period, we all encounter trauma.)

b) 8:18 - selections attention (focus on things you can change/ on positive things, e.g. name three things you are/were grateful for)

c) 12:20 - "is what you are doing helping or harming you?" (control over situation/ be kind to yourself/ according to speakers experience - most powerful/useful tool)

 

The speaker also talks about being the navigator of her grief and pain, trusting intuitively in ones own ability to learn to cope, and self reliance, which in my mind, is discovering the depths of strength one has no idea that they have.

 

Here is the link, it's about 15 minutes:

 

WOW Baddove! this is reallly good stuff, meshes with what onray was just sharing... thank you for sharing the link and your takes from it as well. i'm multitasking right now and will fiish watching it later today. 

 

Feeling very down today, my 27 year old son (my youngest of 4 children)  has schizophrenia, and has been off his meds for 6 months. The strain is wearing on his 3 siblings, me and my husband. We have exhausted every option in trying to get him to reinstate , he is sliding down the slope of his illness, and it is very difficult for us to see what is happening.

 

so sorry you're in despair, my friend. it must be very hard to maintain equilibrium when your baby is in chaos. do you think he may be a healer in the birthing process? it's somethign i initially rejected because i reject all things woo-woo, but recently am rethinking my stance. since i read this :

 

http://themindunleashed.com/2014/08/shaman-sees-mental-hospital.html

 

As to my own slower than a snail taper, I am looking at the little gains I make, and focusing on those. Also, accepting that it takes time to see change when one makes a reduction. I have cut my first dose by .25, and stopped taking seroquel in the afternoon to get through the withdraw. I choose to look at what I am doing, and how I am adapting to those changes rather than negatives in my taper.

 

Peace out fellow travelers

 

those changes may seem slower than a snail's pace, (i can relate) but to me looking from over here, it seems very significant indeed. how much seroquel was your afternoon dose?

 

i'm glad you came to this place to make the journey not so lonely. (handing Baddove a s'more)

[[ba...]]

I concur, the positivity and wisdom and stories of growth people are sharing in here at the best thing since smores.

 

I cut 125 seroquel from the afternoon. I added 100 of it to my night dose so as not to make a big cut on total dosage. I dose several times through the night as I wake up every 2 hours.

 

From much experience, I have learned to go so very slow on reducing the seroquel. If I cut too much, like 50Mg's, I am in the worst withdraw, far worse than a benzo cut. Mostly, I am at a point of just tapering it when I make a xanax cut, it really antagonizes my CNS when I cut seroquel. So I moved it to the night doses, and reduced by 25 Mg's, and cut the xanax by .25 concurrently. 

 

Today I think I am hitting the blowback. It always comes.

 

WD is bad. I will wait, I feel terrible, but that's how it goes, yes? I really want to stop taking it in the afternoon, it leaves me bedbound for the rest of the day. Not something beneficial.

 

This follows the precept to do what you know is helpful. I feel cutting it out in the afternoon is an improvement, but  I will pay for a while. Patience, breathe, accept.

 

So, regardless, sticking with it.

 

I like to cut both drugs (Xanex and seroquel) at the same time, small amounts, so they are still in the same ratio.

 

I will look at your link when my cognition is better. My sons schizophrenia is very bad. He has psychotic breaks that end up in violence. I do appreciate the perspective of other cultures on mental illness, and have actually studied the Shamanistic perspective at length. I have much respect for it, and find it something that would be of great benefit to a percentage of us who are in any kind of mental distress, illness, or crisis.

 

"The last Shaman," is an outstanding documentary on Netflix of one man's journey to seek help in South America, it is fascinating, and similar to books I am reading. I highly recommend it. A great book is "The body keeps the score," a comprehensive list of PTSD treatment dating back to the civil war. When anti anxiety drugs and Ad's and other pharma were introduced, therapists were optimistic, but this particular author, and others, came to a state of horror over the use of these drugs after they had been used for enough time to see the fall out.

 

My therapist (also an atheist) look at every venue with interest, including Shamanic treatment with the various hallucinogenics, we are open to everything. He is part of a group of mental health providers seeking to decriminalize the substances for treatment in the US. I am not advocating using any illegal substances, just to clarify. I do support the work being done in current studies to evaluate the benefit of these substances, and similar organic products,

 

Again, I do not support obtaining anything illegal for treatment, and even when substances are decriminalized, only using them under a skilled therapist or Shaman. We must stay with our course of care as outlined by our pdocs, and adhere to their guidelines for our own safety. Going off the reservation is too risky at this time.

 

I am not anti doctor. They are doing the best they can with the options available to them, especially the good ones. They didn't know, nor intended, to cause harm when starting us on these meds. They wanted to help.

 

Thank you for the smore,

 

 

[[no...]]

for you Baddove, it's a squishy for the stress you're dealing with. Also in case you can't have real s'mores...

 

[glow=red,2,300]I concur, the positivity and wisdom and stories of growth people are sharing in here at the best thing since smores.[/glow]

I cut 125 seroquel from the afternoon. I added 100 of it to my night dose so as not to make a big cut on total dosage. I dose several times through the night as I wake up every 2 hours.

 

sounds like you got this! just remember 25mg from 125mg is still a big cut, you already know how to let your sxs guide you in the speed of your taper. for me, 25mg would be too much, but if you can handle that much, i'm happy for you and support you!

 

From much experience, I have learned to go so very slow on reducing the seroquel. If I cut too much, like 50Mg's, I am in the worst withdraw, far worse than a benzo cut. Mostly, I am at a point of just tapering it when I make a xanax cut, it really antagonizes my CNS when I cut seroquel. So I moved it to the night doses, and reduced by 25 Mg's, and cut the xanax by .25 concurrently. 

 

Today I think I am hitting the blowback. It always comes.

 

WD is bad. I will wait, I feel terrible, but that's how it goes, yes? I really want to stop taking it in the afternoon, it leaves me bedbound for the rest of the day. Not something beneficial.

 

This follows the precept to do what you know is helpful. I feel cutting it out in the afternoon is an improvement, but  I will pay for a while. Patience, breathe, accept.

 

So, regardless, sticking with it.

 

I like to cut both drugs (Xanex and seroquel) at the same time, small amounts, so they are still in the same ratio.

 

you sound like you're really listening to your body's intuition on what it needs as far as the timing of your doses and keeping the synergistic balance of all your meds together. 

 

I will look at your link when my cognition is better. My sons schizophrenia is very bad. He has psychotic breaks that end up in violence. I do appreciate the perspective of other cultures on mental illness, and have actually studied the Shamanistic perspective at length. I have much respect for it, and find it something that would be of great benefit to a percentage of us who are in any kind of mental distress, illness, or crisis.

 

"The last Shaman," is an outstanding documentary on Netflix of one man's journey to seek help in South America, it is fascinating, and similar to books I am reading. I highly recommend it. A great book is "The body keeps the score," a comprehensive list of PTSD treatment dating back to the civil war. When anti anxiety drugs and Ad's and other pharma were introduced, therapists were optimistic, but this particular author, and others, came to a state of horror over the use of these drugs after they had been used for enough time to see the fall out.

 

My therapist (also an atheist) look at every venue with interest, including Shamanic treatment with the various hallucinogenics, we are open to everything. He is part of a group of mental health providers seeking to decriminalize the substances for treatment in the US. I am not advocating using any illegal substances, just to clarify. I do support the work being done in current studies to evaluate the benefit of these substances, and similar organic products,

 

Again, I do not support obtaining anything illegal for treatment, and even when substances are decriminalized, only using them under a skilled therapist or Shaman. We must stay with our course of care as outlined by our pdocs, and adhere to their guidelines for our own safety. Going off the reservation is too risky at this time.

 

I am not anti doctor. They are doing the best they can with the options available to them, especially the good ones. They didn't know, nor intended, to cause harm when starting us on these meds. They wanted to help.

 

Thank you for the smore,

 

agreed, the good doctors didn't mean to hurt us, quite the opposite, but they inadvertently hurt us because of lack of knowledge. i forgave some of my past prescribers who were good doctorsa like that ,that actually weren't taught corect info and were practicing on insufficient and incorrect data.

 

i have the last shaman on pause to play when i finish filling my RX bottles and reminder box for the day!

[[ba...]]

Nomoredrugsforme.  :smitten:

[[Mo...]]

Sorry you are having such a hard time Baddove.  I'm for whatever heals.  You are brave to be coming of multiple drugs at once.  I wish you the best.

 

Nomoredrugs:  Thank you for your kind words. 

 

[[no...]]

Sorry you are having such a hard time Baddove.  I'm for whatever heals.  You are brave to be coming of multiple drugs at once.  I wish you the best.

 

Nomoredrugs:  Thank you for your kind words.

 

[[Lo...]]

I haven't been on BB much over the last several months. I like the idea and the basic premise behind this group. I grew up in a complex family with a lot of conflicting views in regards to religion. That coupled with my life experiences has made ma an Agnostic.

 

The reason I like this group is that, over the course of healing from this benzo injury, my mind has come up with ideas along the lines of being punished by some sort of a Biblical entity, and I had to dig really deep to reject such falsehoods and realize that these thoughts are the result of my traumatized mind, trying to grasp what the heck had happened to me.

 

I'd crossed paths with many religious folk during this journey, and as much as I really appreciated their help and presence in my life (heck, I even prayed many times through this ordeal), but I need to re-establish my boundaries and reclaim "me" again. Basically, in a nutshell.

 

My therapist is not religious. I'd been seeing her since August. It's helped tremendously. I still kick myself for not looking a bit harder for a really good therapist when I was younger. So much of this suffering could have been averted when I was doing way better in life. Like my current therapist says, it's easy to get discouraged when you find a few therapists, and not a single one is a good fit. It's very very easy to get discouraged.

 

I am not a fan of anything 12 step. I feel that the entire society is heavily influenced by the philosophy of such programs. I think this creates a society where the important science of understanding and solving prescribed drug dependence or any kind of chemical dependence is played down & not taken seriously.

 

I feel that our society even views addiction backwards. No, it's not "bad choices" or some wild drug-chasing thrill or just some out-of-control drug use or some incurable "gimme more" brain disease. So much of it is the result of unadjusted, lonely societies where people suffer and don't have friends and can't confide in anyone. I recently read an article on how even a so-called "mental-illness identity" can very negatively influence outcomes for anyone who is said to be experiencing "mental illness".

 

 

[[no...]]

seeing you here make me so happy  you have so much to offer, we're really glad you're in the group.

 

I haven't been on BB much over the last several months. I like the idea and the basic premise behind this group. I grew up in a complex family with a lot of conflicting views in regards to religion. That coupled with my life experiences has made ma an Agnostic.

 

The reason I like this group is that, over the course of healing from this benzo injury, my mind has come up with ideas along the lines of being punished by some sort of a Biblical entity, and I had to dig really deep to reject such falsehoods and realize that these thoughts are the result of my traumatized mind, trying to grasp what the heck had happened to me.

 

I'd crossed paths with many religious folk during this journey, and as much as I really appreciated their help and presence in my life (heck, I even prayed many times through this ordeal), but I need to re-establish my boundaries and reclaim "me" again. Basically, in a nutshell.

 

this is something i really relate to. and i suspect. most of us here. 

 

My therapist is not religious. I'd been seeing her since August. It's helped tremendously. I still kick myself for not looking a bit harder for a really good therapist when I was younger. So much of this suffering could have been averted when I was doing way better in life. Like my current therapist says, it's easy to get discouraged when you find a few therapists, and not a single one is a good fit. It's very very easy to get discouraged.

 

yes, she sounds very aware and wise! was just reading something i wrote back when i saw my therapist last, years back, and she had me believing i had all these different multiple personalities and i was so eager to please her that i went along with the suggestions she implanted and came to believe them as true. when you said the part about wishing you'd looked a bit harder for a better therapist when ou were younger, bells went off for me. that is so great that you got a good one! proof there are some good therapists out there still.

 

I am not a fan of anything 12 step. I feel that the entire society is heavily influenced by the philosophy of such programs. I think this creates a society where the important science of understanding and solving prescribed drug dependence or any kind of chemical dependence is played down & not taken seriously.

 

I feel that our society even views addiction backwards. No, it's not "bad choices" or some wild drug-chasing thrill or just some out-of-control drug use or some incurable "gimme more" brain disease. So much of it is the result of unadjusted, lonely societies where people suffer and don't have friends and can't confide in anyone. I recently read an article on how even a so-called "mental-illness identity" can very negatively influence outcomes for anyone who is said to be experiencing "mental illness".

 

wow, i'm so glad you brought this up, thank you for adding your intelligence to this group! we're kind of a unique group, haven't had any infighting. no need for it since we come from a place of awareness...enlightenment if you will. it's like the people here are sort of "over" the whole argument/debate stage and have moved on to another level. there's so much to talk about! and nice to have (like you said) "friends we can confide in" that we feel safe around. no judgement here. no bashing or moralizing. just a freedom to say whatever is on our minds.

 

[[ba...]]

From Lorazepam free"

I am not a fan of anything 12 step. I feel that the entire society is heavily influenced by the philosophy of such programs. I think this creates a society where the important science of understanding and solving prescribed drug dependence or any kind of chemical dependence is played down & not taken seriously.

 

I feel that our society even views addiction backwards. No, it's not "bad choices" or some wild drug-chasing thrill or just some out-of-control drug use or some incurable "gimme more" brain disease. So much of it is the result of unadjusted, lonely societies where people suffer and don't have friends and can't confide in anyone. I recently read an article on how even a so-called "mental-illness identity" can very negatively influence outcomes for anyone who is said to be experiencing "mental illness".

 

Completely agree. We are not addicts, and we don't fit physiologically or systemically into that category and conventional "addiction" treatment.

 

We are suffering with a syndrome, known as Benzopiazepine Withdraw Syndrome, which is a result of brain trauma from the benzo's.If it was a matter of addiction, we would go through withdraw for a few weeks and be done. I think this is why so many people, both in the medical and lay community, can't understand what is wrong with us. They see us as addicts, and addiction treatment usually makes us worse. The extended distress we experience baffles them.

 

Additionally, I trust the innate nature of my body and intelligence to lead me, not any programs. Of course, I rely on many tools and coping skills, but am and will not be part of any program, not for me. I have learned through experience to listen to my body, to get tougher going through the bad times (par for the course) and accept, distract, stay positive, and foster brain cell growth through exercise, intellectual stimulation, and focusing on the best things I can at the time.

 

I do not have a religious background, so turning to a deity was never on my radar. I love you folks who have moved away from rellying on a higher power to self reliance. This requires taking complete responsibility for our healing and fostering positive behaviors, input and activities that help. I suspect this self reliance has enabled us to move into whole new ways of living, thinking, and coping.

 

I have been through hell, wanting to scream, terrified, hopeless, overwhelmed, stunned by the pain, and as those feelings come now I am better at knowing they will pass. Ride it out with whatever is most effective. Or lay down and breathe for an hour in the dark to calm down.

 

And when I fall into the abyss of darkness and terror, I will come out of it.

 

This is a long haul for many of us. We have to adapt to get through it with both education and commitment to practice those things proven to aid healing (meditation, exercise, a good diet, as much sleep as possible, going on anyway with whatever when we fell bad.)

 

Our healing comes from learning to cope and live NOW, not when we are  healed.

 

Every time I head to the gym, ride my bike, have an appointment, I am afraid. As long as I can function at about 50% or more, I do them anyway.

 

Fear will not decide my activities. Sometimes I intentionally go grocery shopping when I am really bad off. I am teaching myself that I can do things when I think I can't.

 

Some days, I stay home. Usually when I feel hyper sensitive and vulnerable. So I have those "I quit" days when I pull back.

 

We have mostly ourselves to rely on, and hence, we have to practice activities that lead to neuroplasticity in the brain, our best tool.  And, be easy on ourselves on days when we need to retreat.

 

Pursue the positive as much as possible, no matter where it comes from. I listen to Ted talks on every topic under the sun, it's good to learn and be engaged with ideas and new information that have nothing to do with withdraw. We still have our intellect, lets use it as much as possible to feed our brains, and not get sucked into the withdraw monster and it's lies and accusations and guilt.

 

And when life sucks, it's normal. Life sucks for everyone along the way many times. It's a lesson, learn from it.

 

Peace out fellow travelers. I love you for your sincerity, your vulnerability, your journey, your wisdom, and even your pain. What an amazing group of people have found their way in here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ba...]]

This has been floating around a long time. I modified it a bit a few years ago, perhaps it will resonate with you amazing people:

 

Life

You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.

 

You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full time informal session called life. Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant or stupid. You may hate them, or think them a waste of time. You're being short sighted. You will just have to learn them in a different way if you don't get it.

 

Lessons take as long as they take to learn.

 

There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation, The failed experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately work.

 

A lesson is repeated until learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can then go on to the next lesson.

 

Learning lessons does not end, there is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.

 

“There” is no place better than “here.” When your “there” has become a “here,” you will simply obtain another “there” that will again, look better than “here.” Life is about the same no matter where you are-always in the process of learning a lesson. And, the lessons are painful just as often as they are satisfying.

 

You can stagnate, or you can learn. You know what you need, or what you need to do. It’s your choice. It’s your responsibility, no one else’s, and no one knows the best way to get the lesson learned than you. Trust in yourself, and follow your instincts.

 

Many answers often come from outside yourself, or when you're not looking from them. Expose yourself to as much as you can, and learn everything you can. It will culminate with new insights and solutions, without effort. The answers are inside you, you simply have to provide more experience and knowledge to your mind  to see them.

 

You will forget all this. Then, you will start all over again.

 

 

[[Lo...]]

Thank you all for your welcome. Today has so far been exceptionally difficult with a lot of tears and despair. I have made peace with the fact that I need to slow down to a crawl today and understand that the overstimulation and demands of the last month and a half have hit me very, very hard.

 

Must rest today as much as possible.

[[no...]]

This has been floating around a long time. I modified it a bit a few years ago, perhaps it will resonate with you amazing people:

 

Life

You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.

 

You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full time informal session called life. Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant or stupid. You may hate them, or think them a waste of time. You're being short sighted. You will just have to learn them in a different way if you don't get it.

 

Lessons take as long as they take to learn.

 

There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation, The failed experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately work.

 

A lesson is repeated until learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can then go on to the next lesson.

 

Learning lessons does not end, there is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.

 

“There” is no place better than “here.” When your “there” has become a “here,” you will simply obtain another “there” that will again, look better than “here.” Life is about the same no matter where you are-always in the process of learning a lesson. And, the lessons are painful just as often as they are satisfying.

 

You can stagnate, or you can learn. You know what you need, or what you need to do. It’s your choice. It’s your responsibility, no one else’s, and no one knows the best way to get the lesson learned than you. Trust in yourself, and follow your instincts.

 

Many answers often come from outside yourself, or when you're not looking from them. Expose yourself to as much as you can, and learn everything you can. It will culminate with new insights and solutions, without effort. The answers are inside you, you simply have to provide more experience and knowledge to your mind  to see them.

 

You will forget all this. Then, you will start all over again.

 

all of this except for the last line in red...

 

my personal take on this is that, if i can remember what i learn this time around, as i'm going back through the "death" process and in that space of time where i get either lured back into the light by visions of my loved ones or images of a deity or loved pets or whatever trick is used to get me to reincarnate again...if i can retain what i've learned (meaning the part that "i am what i am and require no religious or cultural afterlife" stuff) then i can choose not to recycle/rebirth/relive in this form again.

 

instead i could (theoretically) choose to ignore the light at the end of the tunnel, or whatever trick thet is used to get me to come back here, and instead go to some other  amazing place. what that is, is only imaginable to me, but i know that i've been on this planet/earth experience before and fallen for the trick many times.

 

i agree completely with the whole of what you quoted before the last line in red. totally. i actually feel that i chose this particular life with it's terrible parents and all the abuse i suffered, including my current healing process from polydrugging, before i was born. i chose it because it offered the exact opportunities that would drive me to learning the lessons i need to learn. it explains why i've had a pretty horrible experience in this life, when i look at it in this way. i am not a victim at all, i have placed myself under extreme duress so that i could get the experience, that wouldnt have been possible with an easier/different upbringing and life experience.

 

the great thing about atheism or lack of any spiritual/religious constraining ideology, is that i can have this and many other theories without feeling trapped. like others have different takes on it too, and they don't feel trapped. when i was brainwashed by my religious upbringing (and psychosis) i felt constantly trapped into a duality existence. sin vs purity, heaven vs hell, etc. it was stifling. now i can actually inhale and exhale as all the other animals do. (well, except when i get air hunger and can't exhale completely lol)

 

ps

some people think the light at the end of the tunnel after death is actually the light in the delivery room as seen through the birth canal from a baby's perspective.

[[no...]]

Thank you all for your welcome. Today has so far been exceptionally difficult with a lot of tears and despair. I have made peace with the fact that I need to slow down to a crawl today and understand that the overstimulation and demands of the last month and a half have hit me very, very hard.

 

Must rest today as much as possible.

 

you do you Loraz, we'll be here when you're better.  listen to your body, he's wise

[[Lo...]]

Thank you all for your welcome. Today has so far been exceptionally difficult with a lot of tears and despair. I have made peace with the fact that I need to slow down to a crawl today and understand that the overstimulation and demands of the last month and a half have hit me very, very hard.

 

Must rest today as much as possible.

 

you do you Loraz, we'll be here when you're better.  listen to your body, he's wise

 

Thanks nomoredrugsforme. I remember picking up one of Stephen Levine's books in my early 20's and started reading about ego death and mindstuff and all that. For some reason, I stopped the practice after about 3 years. Went on Prozac. Coped with Prozac + coffee + food. Was still living fairly healthy, but I felt like I strayed from the path that was meant to be mine somewhere as I approached mid 20's.

 

I get constant flashbacks to that period of being 24 years old or so. That year. It kept replaying in my mind so many times. I don't think I understood the significance of it back then. So much trauma that I was not ignoring but just didn't know how to go about solving it. I wish I had a mentor of some kind. Isn't it odd that a year from a little over 20 years ago keeps looping like that in my mind? It's terrorizing and fascinating at the same time.

 

I went down from 0.20mg Ativan to 0.16mg Ativan just a few days ago. Goodness, this is harsh!

[[Lo...]]

Hammock - Cold Front

[[no...]]

Hammock - Cold Front

 

wow that brought a lump to my throat...

 

so the melted ice cubes going in reverse showed her remembering the recent past.. and the sink of bloody water in the beginning shows the lover/loved one commited suicide i guess? and the girl went in and found her lover covered by the blanket?

 

yall this might be triggering stuff, it's portrayed very elegantly however in the video, the blood is almost imperceptible due to the camera work and lighting but the topic of suicide is hard...however the video portrays the girl's remembering the loss and her grieving process and then freedom becasue our soul or whatever you call it is infinite and immortal and so she realizes her loss, though still felt emotionally, is an illusion. and once she realizes that, she is free from the sadness, free to be happy once again, despite her lover/loved one being gone.

 

this was disturbing intitially because i didn't understand what was going on, but i watched til the end and it was profound.

 

thanks for this Loraz. very moving

[[no...]]

Thank you all for your welcome. Today has so far been exceptionally difficult with a lot of tears and despair. I have made peace with the fact that I need to slow down to a crawl today and understand that the overstimulation and demands of the last month and a half have hit me very, very hard.

 

Must rest today as much as possible.

 

you do you Loraz, we'll be here when you're better.  listen to your body, he's wise

 

Thanks nomoredrugsforme. I remember picking up one of Stephen Levine's books in my early 20's and started reading about ego death and mindstuff and all that. For some reason, I stopped the practice after about 3 years. Went on Prozac. Coped with Prozac + coffee + food. Was still living fairly healthy, but I felt like I strayed from the path that was meant to be mine somewhere as I approached mid 20's.

 

I get constant flashbacks to that period of being 24 years old or so. That year. It kept replaying in my mind so many times. I don't think I understood the significance of it back then. So much trauma that I was not ignoring but just didn't know how to go about solving it. I wish I had a mentor of some kind. Isn't it odd that a year from a little over 20 years ago keeps looping like that in my mind? It's terrorizing and fascinating at the same time.

 

I went down from 0.20mg Ativan to 0.16mg Ativan just a few days ago. Goodness, this is harsh!

 

which books do you reccomend from Levine? i saw he has several.

 

do you use a .5ml or 1ml syringe? or other ways to titrate?

remember  now so you will feel the cuts more at the lower doses than at the higher doses.

maybe you ARE your mentor?

[[Lo...]]

Hammock - Cold Front

 

wow that brought a lump to my throat...

 

so the melted ice cubes going in reverse showed her remembering the recent past.. and the sink of bloody water in the beginning shows the lover/loved one commited suicide i guess? and the girl went in and found her lover covered by the blanket?

 

yall this might be triggering stuff, it's portrayed very elegantly however in the video, the blood is almost imperceptible due to the camera work and lighting but the topic of suicide is hard...however the video portrays the girl's remembering the loss and her grieving process and then freedom becasue our soul or whatever you call it is infinite and immortal and so she realizes her loss, though still felt emotionally, is an illusion. and once she realizes that, she is free from the sadness, free to be happy once again, despite her lover/loved one being gone.

 

this was disturbing intitially because i didn't understand what was going on, but i watched til the end and it was profound.

 

thanks for this Loraz. very moving

 

This is what I like. Other people seeing clues in the video that I had missed. I think I get so pulled into the music itself that I don't notice all the visuals. I wondered if this was about the loss of a loved one or maybe just grief and loss of oneself. The scene with the lifting body/sheets/spirit is an especially powerful one to me. It symbolizes facing something that is terrifying but finding peace and newfound strength after having done so. The most favorite part to me is after that scene and the young woman being wrapped in white sheets (clothes) and the layers of foggy darkness coming and going and slowly melting away. The feeling of hope and newfound strength and freedom is so joyful and liberating even though the tension remains until the end of the video/song.

 

I'd listened to this duo since '04 or so, and they must have gone through some heavy personal losses themselves, simply because their music was much more lighter and effervescent towards the beginning of their career. Things must have changed.