Peace-loving Atheists in Wd & Recovery

[[ba...]]

I watched the video. As a moderator I was watching to see if it was triggering or implied suicidal ideation (we don't go there here, you guys know this.) It's fine.

 

I have 2 of my own favorites, it's the video as well as the music that really moves me. Songs and images full of so much story.

 

You guys let me know if you like them:

 

 

 

(The beauty of this astounds me)

 

I really like dark music, it's the poetic voice of shared distress and hope. I'm a big fan of industrial metal and intense classical music. drunken insane Russian compositions are my favorite.

 

Peace out!

[[no...]]

I watched the video. As a moderator I was watching to see if it was triggering or implied suicidal ideation (we don't go there here, you guys know this.) It's fine.

 

I have 2 of my own favorites, it's the video as well as the music that really moves me. Songs and images full of so much story.

 

You guys let me know if you like them:

 

 

 

(The beauty of this astounds me)

 

I really like dark music, it's the poetic voice of shared distress and hope. I'm a big fan of industrial metal and intense classical music. drunken insane Russian compositions are my favorite.

 

Peace out!

 

that's the good thing about having a mod as a member here cause we don't need to worry about things getting outta control with rules and regulations...we have a "watchdove" in our midst already to help us

 

i like the 2nd video, the Abbadon one at the beginning where the steam/mist/smoke stuff is coming up off of her body like the emotions she is feeling 

 

are you an exballerina too Baddove? you seem to have an inclination towards the same dark, dramatic and classical scores!

[[ba...]]

“Watch dove” love it. I suggest you fellow heathens read the guidelines if you have not done so. They are not cumbersome, rather they are to keep BB a safe nurturing place of comfort.  As admins and mods, our objective is to keep the integrity and benefit of this group foremost.  We respect the highly vulnerable and sensitive nature of buddies, and strive to honor that.

 

 

Yes, I am  a former dancer, never professional, but I love ballet and modern dance. At 56 years old, my body is too shot to make this kind of very physically demanding moves. So, now I’m a yogi. Love yoga. I still dance all over the house, but not as aerobically intense as I could when I was young. My husband is a professional musician, a perfect match.

[[no...]]

“Watch dove” love it. I suggest you fellow heathens read the guidelines if you have not done so. They are not cumbersome, rather they are to keep BB a safe nurturing place of comfort.  As admins and mods, our objective is to keep the integrity and benefit of this group foremost.  We respect the highly vulnerable and sensitive nature of buddies, and strive to honor that.

 

 

Yes, I am  a former dancer, never professional, but I love ballet and modern dance. At 56 years old, my body is too shot to make this kind of very physically demanding moves. So, now I’m a yogi. Love yoga. I still dance all over the house, but not as aerobically intense as I could when I was young. My husband is a professional musician, a perfect match.

 

cool!

 

i wasn't a professional ballerina but i did get to dance with the Hartford Connecticut and Fort Worth Texas Ballet companies in the 80's. for a little girl that was lifechanging stuff. the ballet school gave me a scholarship since we were poverty level income. sadly my stepdad drank away the gasmoney to take me to my classes 6 days a week. so i had to quit at 14. the rest of the girls in my class went on to be in various ballet companies. yoga is awesome! wow ithat's so neat your Hubby makes music! truly a match  if my Hubby could play anything that would be amazing, but his talents lie in other areas haha

 

have you ever danced flamenco style?

[[ba...]]

How wonderful, another person born with that groove thang and loose joints. Its what makes us flexible to move our bodies into contortions. It also leaves us vulnerabe to degenerative disks, loss of cartilage, and tearing everything from our acl to tendons. I think I have sprained and our broken my ankles 15 times, and tore my acl when I was 14. Now I have degenerative discs and almost no cartilage in my knees. So I work on strength to compensate. I’m an avid cyclist as well as yoga practitioner.

 

Yoga is so nurturing for the body as well as strength building. Great for Wd as well. Yoga soothes the parasympathetic nervous system, and cardio (biking or gym) builds neuroplasticity in our brains , enhancing healing. Although I feel fantastic when engaged in cardio, I usually hit a wave after, I suspect it’s the remaining cortisol my body made to sustain the exercise. I don’t care, it’s good for healing synaptic and neuron growth.

 

Sorry about your dad and your loss of the opportunity to be a dancing pro, that hurts.

 

I have not done flamenco, but plan on learning belly dance after watching some amazing performances on you tube. I love middle eastern everything, one of my daughter in laws is from Egypt.

 

I take it you dance flamenco? I see it as passionately aggressive, seductive and ready to fight at the same time. Very sexy and bad ass.

[[no...]]

How wonderful, another person born with that groove thang and loose joints. Its what makes us flexible to move our bodies into contortions. It also leaves us vulnerabe to degenerative disks, loss of cartilage, and tearing everything from our acl to tendons. I think I have sprained and our broken my ankles 15 times, and tore my acl when I was 14. Now I have degenerative discs and almost no cartilage in my knees. So I work on strength to compensate. I’m an avid cyclist as well as yoga practitioner.

 

Yoga is so nurturing for the body as well as strength building. Great for Wd as well. Yoga soothes the parasympathetic nervous system, and cardio (biking or gym) builds neuroplasticity in our brains , enhancing healing. Although I feel fantastic when engaged in cardio, I usually hit a wave after, I suspect it’s the remaining cortisol my body made to sustain the exercise. I don’t care, it’s good for healing synaptic and neuron growth.

 

Sorry about your dad and your loss of the opportunity to be a dancing pro, that hurts.

 

I have not done flamenco, but plan on learning belly dance after watching some amazing performances on you tube. I love middle eastern everything, one of my daughter in laws is from Egypt.

 

I take it you dance flamenco? I see it as passionately aggressive, seductive and ready to fight at the same time. Very sexy and bad ass.

 

i don't do the flamenco now, but still have my ruffled dress in the closet down for repairs. i got into it in 2008 when i first started falling and they said i had MS. turns out it was side effects of all the frikkin srugs they doped me up on, but anyways...when i had to use a cane to get around (first a rolling walker, then a cane) i tried to thin kof a type of dance i could do and use it as a prop and a "stchick" lol...flamenco! and yes, the stomping around is very gratifying. very passionate, angry, uncompromising. only now i don't like the heels although stout/stocky and wide. i spend my days in birkenstocks!

 

the old ballerina feet had to have 2 arthroscopy/plantar fasciotomies, back in 2016. the pointe shoes had really done a number on them, so after years of wearing crappy shoes, my arches began to ache and i got a heel spur. surgery fixed all that, but was really painful .now i wear comfortable shoes/orthopedic or not at all! my feet and toes have spread out to a normal position, and much stronger.

 

yes to the sprained ankles, chronically for years while dancing. then in middle age after the feet surgeries, that faded away as i grew accustomed to walking with my balance correctly placed in the wider shoes with room for toespread. but i had to throw out a lot of gorgeous shoes and boots. sigh. downsizing is a good thing!

 

mostly i do yard or garden work and play with the dogs tho, since during the 2008 falling from "MS"/aka overdrugging, i fell backwards onto a spigot outside the house, messed up some stuff around L4-L5 vertebrae, soe dessication and torn ligament there. has grown into more pain over the years, but i only take ibuprofen if it gets bad. usually stretching and movement keeps it down to a low roar.

 

does anyone else here wake up with contracted back/spinal muscles?

 

i get the tightened drawn up muscls in the mortnings until i get up and moving. some days more than others, seems to coincide with other ramped up sxs.

 

i love watching bellydancers and pretending i am one to the music at home in my yard or kitchen! my dogs dance with me.

 

have you ever done yoga with dogs?

[[ba...]]

Muscle pain/contraction is common. My physical therapist says exercise is the best way to loosen them. She really pushes me to press hard on both my cardio and strengthening. Building muscle helps with getting rid of air hunger and headaches too. Also, the arthritis and neck disaster I have.

 

Look into yoga. I get all my classes free on you tube. Start with breathing classes, then move to beginner. There are many kinds of yoga from Vinyasa (intense) to Hatha (where you will spend most of your time as your body adapts and you "learn") to Yin. Yin is holding poses. It can be restorative and meditative or intense for building muscle. 

 

Here is a fantastic restorative Yin with meditative affirmations.

 

 

Just try it.

[[no...]]

thanks Baddove i just saved it/bookmarked it on youtube

[[ba...]]

Awesome, I love this one when wd gets me down and upset or depressed or frozen. If you don't have blocks, you can use throw cushions or bolsters, eben books. If you think you will like yoga, blocks are super cheap. I have blocks, straps, a rolled map for a bolster , all kinds of gear.

 

Blocks are the first thing to invest in, however. You will learn what you want to acquire to aid your practice if you proceed with yoga. I can always advise as well.

 

If it's not for you, all is well. You will know.

[[Ho...]]

Time to bump this thread up again.

 

I've been involved in a very spirited discussion over at http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231364.0.

 

I'm trying to use my chemistry education to make cogent arguments.

[[no...]]

Awesome, I love this one when wd gets me down and upset or depressed or frozen. If you don't have blocks, you can use throw cushions or bolsters, eben books. If you think you will like yoga, blocks are super cheap. I have blocks, straps, a rolled map for a bolster , all kinds of gear.

 

Blocks are the first thing to invest in, however. You will learn what you want to acquire to aid your practice if you proceed with yoga. I can always advise as well.

 

If it's not for you, all is well. You will know.

 

hey Baddove, which blocks so you reccomend for doing bodywork/yoga to strengthen and support and injured spine ? (L4-L5 specifically)

 

i have pain that i just tolerate, but it only becomes really bad if i am in certain positions, like lying in bed with head elevated to watch tv, or if i'm lying down flat w/out my knees raised slightly.

 

i am pretty dern flexible. but weak. my muscles are becoming mushy. need to do something now, before it's too lat4e... don't wanna get that rhambdolyoisis or however it's spelled...the thing where the muscles tissue dissolves and enters the bloodstream.

 

what block size do you like best?

[[no...]]

Time to bump this thread up again.

 

I've been involved in a very spirited discussion over at http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231364.0.

 

I'm trying to use my chemistry education to make cogent arguments.

 

woohoo! good for you! 

i read thru real fast and commented myself!

 

people considered the "experts" by so many on BB are nevertheless human and therefore not infallible. 

it's funny when people make claims they don't know how to back up on that thread, instead of admitting "i don't know the answer to that question".

what's wrong with just saying "i don't know" ?!

it's not admitting defeat or failing somehow...unless they have built up a big ego that is fragile and teetering on crumbling down at the slightest breeze to blow against it.

 

this process has been so humbling to me and i've really had to check my ego on things that the interactions on BB has brought up. it's actually a gift. i need to learn how to drop my pride at the door so i can move forward and learn something.

[[Ho...]]

nomoredrugsforme I hope I answered your question on the other thread. It's late in the day and I'm either extra symptomatic today or I'm coming down with a cold, so my answer was kind of simple and curt.

 

 

 

people considered the "experts" by so many on BB are nevertheless human and therefore not infallible. 

it's funny when people make claims they don't know how to back up on that thread, instead of admitting "i don't know the answer to that question".

what's wrong with just saying "i don't know" ?!

it's not admitting defeat or failing somehow...unless they have built up a big ego that is fragile and teetering on crumbling down at the slightest breeze to blow against it.

 

 

Yes, I agree. And the bullying behavior is very much a turn off.

[[no...]]

nomoredrugsforme I hope I answered your question on the other thread. It's late in the day and I'm either extra symptomatic today or I'm coming down with a cold, so my answer was kind of simple and curt.

 

oh no, not at all! i was grateful that you even answered my peon question about science! lol

hopefully you will wake up well-rested and tomorrow will be better. 

 

 

 

people considered the "experts" by so many on BB are nevertheless human and therefore not infallible. 

it's funny when people make claims they don't know how to back up on that thread, instead of admitting "i don't know the answer to that question".

what's wrong with just saying "i don't know" ?!

it's not admitting defeat or failing somehow...unless they have built up a big ego that is fragile and teetering on crumbling down at the slightest breeze to blow against it.

 

Yes, I agree. And the bullying behavior is very much a turn off.

 

interesting, this is not the first time that this particular situation has been publicly addressed on the forum over the years, either. i'm glad it's being re-addressed because too many people's lives are affected depending on one laypersons' supposed expertise, when they haven't even the understanding of the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics ect (terms i only undesrstand on the most basic level...but terms that you DO UNDERSTAND and have many years practice with  so i'm grateful that Colin has this in hand. it's probably in the best interest of everyone on the forum, and to prevent any liability. it's one thing to say "this works for me" and outline the details, but quite another to make claims not evidence based.

 

haha! this song is now in my head: https://youtu.be/-FIMvSp01C8 "Good heavens Miss Sakamoto, you're beautiful!"

 

It's poetry in motion

She turned her tender eyes to me

As deep as any ocean

As sweet as any harmony

Mm, but she blinded me with science

She blinded me with science

And failed me in biology, yeh yeh

Now uh, huh huh

When I'm dancing close to her

Blinding me with science, science

Science

I can smell the chemicals

Blinding me with science, science

Science

Science

Mm, but it's poetry in motion

And when she turned her eyes to me

As deep as any ocean

As sweet as any harmony

She blinded me with science

She blinded me with science

And failed me in geometry

When she's dancing next to me

Blinding me with science, science

Science

Mmm mmm, mmm mmm, mmm

I can hear machinery

Blinding me with science, science

Science

Huh, it's poetry in motion

And now she's making love to me

The spheres're in commotion

The elements in harmony

She blinded me with science

She blinded me with science

And hit me with technology

Good heavens Miss Sakamoto, you're beautiful

I, I don't believe it

There she goes again

She's tidied up and I can't find anything

All my tubes and wires

And careful notes

And antiquated notions

But, it's poetry in motion

And when she turned her eyes to me

As deep as any ocean

As sweet as any harmony

Unh, she's blinding me with science

She blinded me with science

She blinded me with

 

Source: LyricFind

Songwriters: Jonathan Kerr / Thomas Dolby

She Blinded Me With Science lyrics © Carlin America Inc, Round Hill Music Big Loud Songs

[[ba...]]

Hey, checking in. In a wave, so not hanging out on forums so much. Still loving this thread.

[[no...]]

awww hi Baddove

 

sorry to hear you're in the sucky part again. comes and goes yeah?

 

what's goin on in your universe?

[[ba...]]

awww hi Baddove

 

sorry to hear you're in the sucky part again. comes and goes yeah?

 

what's goin on in your universe?

 

 

I"m hanging in there, cutting tomorrow. It's been rough, But I go through bad spells quite a bit.

 

I completely missed your question about the blocks. Here is a link to what I use on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.com/REEHUT-Density-Support-Strength-Flexibility/dp/B01M6WVGIA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=yoga+blocks&qid=1572194934&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMjdLT1VVNVlCQjNBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjMyOTM0MUQ2WVlOTDIwWEQ4SSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDk5MzEwMzlESDFVQ1pIRzE2RCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

 

Yoga is great for mush muscles, focus, distraction, endorphins, pain, calming and a great asset for dealing with withdraw. I usually do mine from 5-7 pm, loosen all the days tightness, relax my body for sleep. get some great relief from evening withdraw. I absolutely do not recommend any newby do 2 hours. Start with 20 minutes. You have to learn the breathing techniques, which are crucial, then slowly get your body acclimated to using neglected muscles.

 

Find classes you like, teachers whom you enjoy, and try and do it daily. There are several 30 day class options on Youtube.

 

For me, I like Yoga with Kassandra (she does a lot of Yin which is the best for calming down, as well as Yin with affirmations.)  Another is Yoga with Adrian. She does calming classes and intermediate Hatha.

 

Also psyche truth, which is a Canadian based group with numerous great teachers. The founder has anxiety disorder, and gives talks about it. He also has breathing classes for panic and anxiety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzzp1gxZd0U&list=PLnQJb5upR8D6Mk8U9UeaejH87pM6z_0-y&index=37&t=426s

 

Psyche truth really is the mother load for numerous teachers and styles.

 

One great thing about Yoga, is it can be restorative and calming, even sleep inducing, to intense cardio and muscle strengthening. I mix up my evening Yoga depending on my energy level and muscle fatigue. On gym days, I do intermediate yoga. On non gym days, I amp it up to Vinyasa-difficult, intense work that burns and leaves me drenched in sweat. So, I'm getting both cardio and muscle work in.  I always finish whatever I am doing with something restorative, like Yin or a beginner stretching class if Yin is just to slow for me.

 

 

 

 

[[no...]]

awww hi Baddove

 

sorry to hear you're in the sucky part again. comes and goes yeah?

 

what's goin on in your universe?

 

 

I"m hanging in there, cutting tomorrow. It's been rough, But I go through bad spells quite a bit.

 

I completely missed your question about the blocks. Here is a link to what I use on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.com/REEHUT-Density-Support-Strength-Flexibility/dp/B01M6WVGIA/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=yoga+blocks&qid=1572194934&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMjdLT1VVNVlCQjNBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjMyOTM0MUQ2WVlOTDIwWEQ4SSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDk5MzEwMzlESDFVQ1pIRzE2RCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

 

Yoga is great for mush muscles, focus, distraction, endorphins, pain, calming and a great asset for dealing with withdraw. I usually do mine from 5-7 pm, loosen all the days tightness, relax my body for sleep. get some great relief from evening withdraw. I absolutely do not recommend any newby do 2 hours. Start with 20 minutes. You have to learn the breathing techniques, which are crucial, then slowly get your body acclimated to using neglected muscles.

 

Find classes you like, teachers whom you enjoy, and try and do it daily. There are several 30 day class options on Youtube.

 

For me, I like Yoga with Kassandra (she does a lot of Yin which is the best for calming down, as well as Yin with affirmations.)  Another is Yoga with Adrian. She does calming classes and intermediate Hatha.

 

Also psyche truth, which is a Canadian based group with numerous great teachers. The founder has anxiety disorder, and gives talks about it. He also has breathing classes for panic and anxiety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzzp1gxZd0U&list=PLnQJb5upR8D6Mk8U9UeaejH87pM6z_0-y&index=37&t=426s

 

Psyche truth really is the mother load for numerous teachers and styles.

 

One great thing about Yoga, is it can be restorative and calming, even sleep inducing, to intense cardio and muscle strengthening. I mix up my evening Yoga depending on my energy level and muscle fatigue. On gym days, I do intermediate yoga. On non gym days, I amp it up to Vinyasa-difficult, intense work that burns and leaves me drenched in sweat. So, I'm getting both cardio and muscle work in.  I always finish whatever I am doing with something restorative, like Yin or a beginner stretching class if Yin is just to slow for me.

 

thank you! i ordered 2 of the blocks in purple but got the smaller 3" since my hands are small. bokmarked the yooga dude link too 

[[ba...]]

Awesome.  Hope it is a good experience for you. Remember, if the class is not a good fit, move to another. Yoga should fell good, yet challenging in strengthening and restoring flexibility. Take your time exploring teachers. If you get hooked, your yoga love cave will start looking like a studio with the things you purchase.

[[Lo...]]

I can't claim (truthfully) to be 'Athiest', though I've a harsh aversion to dogma - and all the "join the Pogrom" anitcs etc... It may work for some - to my humble envy - but 'religion' (faith based) eludes my rational Autistic mind 

 

I can't deny Belief in spiritual PRINCIPLES... Honesty, Reason, Humility, Unselfishness, Perserverance, Beauty, Integrity etc. Or C.G. Jung's 'serendipity' - only due to being subject (1st person) to a couple of those inexplicable things...

 

This is the FIRST "Support Group" I've found with thoughtful discourse... In Paragraphs!  About the Principles I NEED if I'm ever to Recover of this Benzo thing. What Benzo's did (and do) to my soul and mind, these I'm powerless over. Still, I must take responsibility to change the things within me that drive "loopy thoughts" or relentless sense of futility that overwhelms every waking moment.

 

I see now Benzo affected Reason long before it "Got me", leading to STUPID life decisions of the irreversible sort ... I can't afford this as I move forward.

 

Would it best if I "lurk along" or may I join in?

 

Thank you ALL for what I've found here 

 

LC

[[ba...]]

I can't claim (truthfully) to be 'Athiest', though I've a harsh aversion to dogma - and all the "join the Pogrom" anitcs etc... It may work for some - to my humble envy - but 'religion' (faith based) eludes my rational Autistic mind 

 

I can't deny Belief in spiritual PRINCIPLES... Honesty, Reason, Humility, Unselfishness, Perserverance, Beauty, Integrity etc. Or C.G. Jung's 'serendipity' - only due to being subject (1st person) to a couple of those inexplicable things...

 

This is the FIRST "Support Group" I've found with thoughtful discourse... In Paragraphs!  About the Principles I NEED if I'm ever to Recover of this Benzo thing. What Benzo's did (and do) to my soul and mind, these I'm powerless over. Still, I must take responsibility to change the things within me that drive "loopy thoughts" or relentless sense of futility that overwhelms every waking moment.

 

I see now Benzo affected Reason long before it "Got me", leading to STUPID life decisions of the irreversible sort ... I can't afford this as I move forward.

 

Would it best if I "lurk along" or may I join in?

 

Thank you ALL for what I've found here 

 

LC

 

Love your post. Yes, we are damaged, we are struggling, but we can still be working towards progress and life as much as possible. IN SPITE OF (list your sxs here.) I completely enjoy being able to communicate as intelligent interesting human beings, and share our stories than complaining. Very healthy. Although, if one of us needs to vent, that is welcome, or seek support when it's very painful.

 

 

There are atheists whom consider themselves spiritual. Not in a new age way, not in a dogmatic belief system, and not in a deity, and certainly not in any established religion. In consideration of what you said, that you are not fully atheist, atheism is a spectrum, were not all clones in our history, our thinking, or our passions.

 

I really don't like the word spiritual, it connotates religious choices, but it is the best and most used term to define what I will attempt to describe.

 

I am one of these. I believe (belief is not fact, need to posit this,) that on a scientific/subatomic level, we are all connected, although not very conscious of it. I suppose this is a Buddhist concept. Additionally, that science does not yet have many answers, and the deeper it extends research into various areas of biology, the brain, and even dark matter and studies of the higgs-boson (those will blow your mind), the more possibilities of interesting explanations for things occur.

 

I keep an open mind to mystery. I do not assign it meaning without credible studies to point it in a certain direction. I don't poo-poo it. I determine it is compelling And it there may be some validity to the broader meanings assigned to this phenomena.

 

My husband heard "angels" singing over his infant brother when they lived in Japan.He was about 10 years old. I accept he had that experience, and others like it. I choose not to invalidate his experience, nor define it. I believe science could provide an explanation, but he is comfortable in the legitimacy of his experience, so I respect it. If I experienced something like that, I would think my mind is being weird, and yet there might be something there. I would not assign a definition to it, such as angels singing.

 

As a very young child, I saw auras around everything that were stunning and gorgeous. I assumed everyone did. As an artist, I tried to draw them. As I grew up, that stopped. Seeing the world that way birthed a great appreciation for nature and beauty that remains with me to this day. As to an explanation, I am a migraine sufferer, and legally blind without my glasses-those could explain it rationally. And if that is what caused me to view auras non stop, I am fine with it. I appreciate what it gave me, the why is not so important. As very young children, our frontal lobes are not very developed. We live in a world of feeling and wonder. Once cognition starts to develop, that early childhood wonder fades away.

 

I am willing to accept that our brains might be more than just the accumulation of experience and information which forms our identity, Perhaps, there are further abilities we can tap into. Not magic abilities, but something softer such as connected energy that impacts multiple people. The full moon is an example. Police get more calls, people seem to go a little nuts. Could that extra gravity affect us on a deep level? And if it does, that is external, not something our brains produced, hence, spiritual under my definition.

 

For me, Yoga is a spiritual practice. Although, I do not believe in the Chakras. But,  I accept I could be wrong-there might be something to it. As is meditation. It calms me, and makes me much more positive in my perception of what will come. Negativity is so ingrained in the withdraw experience, and I do have it. However, the practice of Yoga and meditation have allowed me to grow into a surprisingly positive person in spite of the benzo hell. An example, I was in withdraw, I kind of always am, and wanted to go to the gym. I felt very uncomfortable to be around people in that state. Then, I thought, "everyone is on your side." And off to the gym I was able to go as a result of that thought.

 

Have a good day everyone.

[[no...]]

I can't claim (truthfully) to be 'Athiest', though I've a harsh aversion to dogma -and all the "join the Pogrom" anitcs etc... It may work for some - to my humble envy - but 'religion' (faith based) eludes my rational Autistic mind 

 

I can't deny Belief in spiritual PRINCIPLES... Honesty, Reason, Humility, Unselfishness, Perserverance, Beauty, Integrity etc. Or C.G. Jung's 'serendipity' - only due to being subject (1st person) to a couple of those inexplicable things...

 

This is the FIRST "Support Group" I've found with thoughtful discourse... In Paragraphs!  About the Principles I NEED if I'm ever to Recover of this Benzo thing. What Benzo's did (and do) to my soul and mind, these I'm powerless over. Still, I must take responsibility to change the things within me that drive "loopy thoughts" or relentless sense of futility that overwhelms every waking moment.

 

I see now Benzo affected Reason long before it "Got me", leading to STUPID life decisions of the irreversible sort ... I can't afford this as I move forward.

 

Would it best if I "lurk along" or may I join in?

 

Thank you ALL for what I've found here 

 

LC

 

hello LostCause and welcome to Benzo Buddies! (checked out some of your posts on your profile page and you're obviously a kind and intelligent person!) 

 

also thank you for your respectful questions about this support group. the bolded parts in your post that i copied above i'll address in the 2 posts copied below that come from page 1 and 2 of this support group's thread: (bolded in red as it applies to your questions) i hope this clarifies things.

 

ps

you are welcome here as long as you fit the requirements of the group: atheist, no mention of any god/goddess/etc or religious beliefs or their "holy" texts, including higher power 12 steps doctrine. (your signature says you're a recovering alcoholic & your avatar quote is an AA slogan...but if you are not in the program and you are not promoting a higher power/god, then you are welcome here) if you still want to be a part of a religious support group, i would suggest the faith board, they have a lot of people who believe in a wide variety of faiths and they are very welcoming to newcomers. of course you are welcome to lurk, no judgement. but this is a safe place set up for we who are triggered by the things mentioned in the posts below.

 

 

so i guess you've deduced the intro, that i am an atheist or freethinker...however you want to call it.

 

i am looking for a place where i can get support on this BB forum without having to hear the God or Christianity or other deity based/Higher Power ect rhetoric that people often "well-meaningly" add in. i find it to be very off-putting, and i don't say anything to avoid further offense and to avoid creating an argument or hurt feelings. hopefully this can be that place and others like me who want no mention of deity in their recovery can come to support each other and find support ourselves.

 

if noone has done it yet, i will start off the first post on "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery".

 

this thread is not for those who want to be mean or throw stones at theists or religious people or their books. it is just a safe place to talk about tapering, wd, recovery, healing etc from drugs such as benzos and others without talk of god or any religion....

 

and

 

...So what would we discuss in this thread?

 

hey Hope,

 

well, we can discuss everything in this support group that we discuss in the other support groups minus any reference to god/s, religions/faiths, "higher powers" or verses from the holy books of those (that includes anything by "Bill W." or 12 step books/traditions/etc.) it's a non-political and non-religious shaming version of the other "atheist" support group basically. sort of an atheists without predjudices support group.  that's why i chose the name "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery". i suppose it's for atheists who don't have any beef with the non-atheists. we don't want the drama or distraction, we just want to focus on our healing process, and to feel relaxed knowing that we have a group we can speak freely without the need to say "merry chistmas" or "happy saturnalia" or go on about how we can't do this without "__insert name of deity here__"

 

i am hoping this will be a place where we don't have to deal with religious/spiritual vs scientific/medical dabates or arguments (which are neverending and constantly redirect the focus off of WD and Recovery from these meds onto the arguments themselves)  and minus the digging at people who have different faiths or lack of them.  like a hippie commune for atheists in WD or Recovery minus the new agey spiritualism or any other religious stuff.

 

for myself, to not hear voices anymore- (july 17th will be a year since i last heard a voice of "god" or anything else for that matter) -since my medication dose got low enough, is a great relief! but it was not at first. i was devastated when i first realized there was no one talking back to me when i prayed. i thought i'd done something wrong! but it was evident after a week, that the voice i hasd been hearing ever since i began taking that drug... (seroquel, an antipsychotic that can actually make a non-psychotic person begin to have psychosis) ...was not Divine. it was the voice of seroquel. That drug made me hear a voice, and when the dose was reduced down to a low enough amount, the voice disappeared.  so it wasn't "god abandoning me" it was simply that i'm healing and that the psychosis induced by the drug has stopped. i need a place where people won't tell me "you just have to have faith!", "you need to pray harder", or  "god is testing you", etc.

 

that is my experience. i know others will have different ones of course! but that's why i need a safe place to not be judged and constantly triggered by religious references. i was looking to the other "atheist" support group at first, but it quickly became clear to me that i wouldn't feel safe there either, because so many people are there arguing religion/science and it's a distraction.  so i decided to try making a new group. Colin guided me to make sure i understood what BB stands for and won't stand for concerning religious tolerance/intolerance, and pianogirl helped me get the name changed.

 

so here we are!

 

i posted a link in my signature to my drug and medical history for anyone who's interested. i'm in a polytaper from polydrugs currently. if you read the previous threads, you can see some of my story/why i decided to do a polytaper. the quetiapine is about 2.5% every 4 weeks with HOLDS as needed and the clonazepam is a DLMT at 1% every 14 days for the first 4 months, with HOLDS as needed. then i'll go up to 1.63% every 14 days etc. that puts me into next year, where i'll re-assess (as needed) the rate and speed of my polytaper/s.

 

[[no...]]

... Yes, we are damaged, we are struggling, but we can still be working towards progress and life as much as possible. IN SPITE OF (list your sxs here.) I completely enjoy being able to communicate as intelligent interesting human beings, and share our stories than complaining. Very healthy. Although, if one of us needs to vent, that is welcome, or seek support when it's very painful.

 

 

There are atheists whom consider themselves spiritual. Not in a new age way, not in a dogmatic belief system, and not in a deity, and certainly not in any established religion. In consideration of what you said, that you are not fully atheist, atheism is a spectrum, were not all clones in our history, our thinking, or our passions.

 

I really don't like the word spiritual, it connotates religious choices, but it is the best and most used term to define what I will attempt to describe.

 

I am one of these. I believe (belief is not fact, need to posit this,) that on a scientific/subatomic level, we are all connected, although not very conscious of it. I suppose this is a Buddhist concept. Additionally, that science does not yet have many answers, and the deeper it extends research into various areas of biology, the brain, and even dark matter and studies of the higgs-boson (those will blow your mind), the more possibilities of interesting explanations for things occur.

 

this is how i feel also, that on a energy level as in particles of energy in a scientific way, we are all the same star-matter and just vibrating faster or slower to make what is commonly known as "matter". i also feel that my gray matter is where all of the universe is perceived or "seen" by my pineal gland "third eye" which is the same cells and optical tissue as my visual eyes are made of. the liquids like h2o are vibrating vaster than say rocks. but all made of the same molecules and subatomic particles. some are closer together (solids) and soem farther apart (gases/air). our bodies die, decompose and the matter is converted into food for worms and soil and feeds plants and they feed animals and so on. just a changing of forms, but nothing is lost. in that essence, we are all the same. the fascinating part is how trauma chnages the brain structures, and our perceptions of everything in our lives from thereafter. and even more fascinating, how we are able to alter our perceptions even after trauma, or despite trauma, or because of that very same trauma! we are able to transform the "damage" with our own power. this is the most intriguing mystery in all mysteries, to me! mind over matter?

 

I keep an open mind to mystery. I do not assign it meaning without credible studies to point it in a certain direction. I don't poo-poo it. I determine it is compelling And it there may be some validity to the broader meanings assigned to this phenomena.

 

My husband heard "angels" singing over his infant brother when they lived in Japan.He was about 10 years old. I accept he had that experience, and others like it. I choose not to invalidate his experience, nor define it. I believe science could provide an explanation, but he is comfortable in the legitimacy of his experience, so I respect it. If I experienced something like that, I would think my mind is being weird, and yet there might be something there. I would not assign a definition to it, such as angels singing.

 

As a very young child, I saw auras around everything that were stunning and gorgeous. I assumed everyone did. As an artist, I tried to draw them. As I grew up, that stopped. Seeing the world that way birthed a great appreciation for nature and beauty that remains with me to this day. As to an explanation, I am a migraine sufferer, and legally blind without my glasses-those could explain it rationally. And if that is what caused me to view auras non stop, I am fine with it. I appreciate what it gave me, the why is not so important. As very young children, our frontal lobes are not very developed. We live in a world of feeling and wonder. Once cognition starts to develop, that early childhood wonder fades away.

 

sounds to me like your pineal gland/ "third eye" was seeign/perceiving the auras, which are simply colors of energy surrounding a living thing. Kirlian photography. your visual eyes may be deficient, but your original eye sure aint! maybe the fluoride in the water dimmed the vision of it aas you grew in years? they already know avg I.Q> of children drinking fluoridated h2o is at least 7 points lower than those drinking nonfluoridated h2o.

 

I am willing to accept that our brains might be more than just the accumulation of experience and information which forms our identity, Perhaps, there are further abilities we can tap into. Not magic abilities, but something softer such as connected energy that impacts multiple people. The full moon is an example. Police get more calls, people seem to go a little nuts. Could that extra gravity affect us on a deep level? And if it does, that is external, not something our brains produced, hence, spiritual under my definition.

 

yep the moon contols our oceans tides. it controls our monthly cycles (men and women both) we are at least 70% water. of course it affects us. animals too. plants too. the lower the magnetics the higher the frequency (or perhaps it's backwards i forget) so certain places on the plane(t)?  have lower magnetcs and higher frequencies. explains why certain areas are reported to have more unexplained "spirutal" activity and people are attracted to those areas. 4 corners area usa, stonehenge , the pyramids, etc hundreds or more places. it's actually scientific and explained by astronomy and physics, but ost people don't understand so it becomes woo-woo in nature. magic is just stuff science hasn't explained yet. remember the witch burnings? healers using plants that cured  an ill  were often also feared by people who were religious.

 

For me, Yoga is a spiritual practice. Although, I do not believe in the Chakras. But,  I accept I could be wrong-there might be something to it. As is meditation. It calms me, and makes me much more positive in my perception of what will come. Negativity is so ingrained in the withdraw experience, and I do have it. However, the practice of Yoga and meditation have allowed me to grow into a surprisingly positive person in spite of the benzo hell. An example, I was in withdraw, I kind of always am, and wanted to go to the gym. I felt very uncomfortable to be around people in that state. Then, I thought, "everyone is on your side." And off to the gym I was able to go as a result of that thought.

 

one day i hope i can overcome my fear of the yoga class. i have nightmares of losing my continence or flatulence or..worse! in certain poses. after all your body is super relaxed and whenever i relax, that's when gas and other things tend to exit my body! i am scared of something horrific happening in front of someone close enough to see or smell or hear it! lol but maybe those fears will die down with a little time.

 

I really respect my family members who practice Islam. They pray 5 times a day, those prayers are actually meditation, each one unique. Islam also states that God is not knowable or understandable. I know and am related to numerous Muslims. They are the calmest, kindest, less pretentious and open minded people I know. Muslims do not anthropomorphous Allah, or assign it a gender.  These types of practices quiet the incessant mind chatter, and allow practitioners to see themselves as connected to  divinity, and carry that experience into their expanded consciousness. It is a cultivated practice with an expected outcome, not unlike Buddhist meditation, or The dance of the whirling dervish for the Sufi.  Islam also has several body disciplines, like other religions do, to make one aware of their connection to divinity. The most well known is Ramadon. 30 days of fasting, only eating as the sun goes down. discipline the body to grow the spiritual self is the purpose. Many religions have monks and nuns who meditate ongoing and practice bodily discipline and fasting. From Hindi to Bahai to Buddhist to Islam, even certain branches of Christianity.

My spirituality is seeking to learn. I have recently been intrigued by Shamanism and it's organic medications. A substance that is hallucinogenic, when given under direction, is general not pleasant. It brings up all the nasty things a person stuffs away because those experiences and memories and even their own actions are not something they want to think about, or keep in their memory.  It forces those things into blunt awareness, and from there the person can freak out, or deal with the issues. Later treatments can then proceed once the trauma, shame, guilt and fear have been dealt with. This makes so much sense to me in treating trauma, depression, and other mental distress.  It is not a cure, and legit practitioners do not claim it to be. It is a paradigm shift enabling the patient to tap into their issues and hopefully, come out of the process with a new clarity of the self and one's ability to not be captive to it, hence, ill.

 

Of course, these treatments can make you crazy, but as far as a balanced mental health, I think dealing with our own (perceived) trauma and ugliness can be very beneficial. This can be achieved through various methods, but it intrigues me. Many mental health practitioners in the US and other places are working to make hallucinogenics available for treating patients. It's a process to destigmatize them, and then time to conduct studies to gauge the effects.

 

I do ramble on. Bob brain. Have a good day everyone.

 

 

there is a ton of stuff here i find fascinating and really want to get into, however first i have to remind everyone of the main concept of this support group, which i'll post as a reminder below:

 

so i guess you've deduced the intro, that i am an atheist or freethinker...however you want to call it.

 

i am looking for a place where i can get support on this BB forum without having to hear the God or Christianity or other deity based/Higher Power ect rhetoric that people often "well-meaningly" add in. i find it to be very off-putting, and i don't say anything to avoid further offense and to avoid creating an argument or hurt feelings. hopefully this can be that place and others like me who want no mention of deity in their recovery can come to support each other and find support ourselves. it is just a safe place to talk about tapering, wd, recovery, healing etc from drugs such as benzos and others without talk of god or any religion....

 

and

 

well, we can discuss everything in this support group that we discuss in the other support groups minus any reference to god/s, religions/faiths, "higher powers" or verses from the holy books of those (that includes anything by "Bill W." or 12 step books/traditions/etc.) it's a non-political and non-religious shaming version of the other "atheist" support group basically. sort of an atheists without predjudices support group.  that's why i chose the name "Peace-loving Atheists in WD & Recovery"...

 

i am hoping this will be a place where we don't have to deal with religious/spiritual vs scientific/medical dabates or arguments (which are neverending and constantly redirect the focus off of WD and Recovery from these meds onto the arguments themselves)  and minus the digging at people who have different faiths or lack of them.  like a hippie commune for atheists in WD or Recovery minus the new agey spiritualism or any other religious stuff.

 

as for the shamanistic use of entheogens as medicine, we have to tread lightly about the way we word this, since BB has a policy of no illegal drug talk or promotion, and i'm trying my best to avoid breaking any of the BB rules. i can't say how i truly feel in regards to entheogens, as it would probably get me reported!  lol so i'm just giving a friendly reminder to yall to be careful how ya word things ok?

 

ok everybody feel free to carry on!  this commercial break is over

[[Lo...]]

badd, beautiful post.

 

atheism is a spectrum, were not all clones in our history, our thinking, or our passions.

 

THIS! An excellent parallel with the 'Spectrum' I'm obviously on. So on the Atheist Spectrum by that default - the "Hive" part of my mind is missing. Hence  at "fairy tales" & vapor lock on dogma...

 

we can still be working towards progress and life as much as possible. IN SPITE OF (list your sxs here.)

 

Beyond the sx-list, even IF I can kick Benzo, I must reconsider "life" somehow find VALUE in the spartan void that lies ahead.

 

...belief is not fact, need to posit this...

 

I did this! The impossible "b-word" put my brain into 1/0. So I dug past Webster to Harbrace, Cambridge, Roget then on to aristotle & co. until I derived a working meaning (probably wtf to anyone else ).

 

If your art work is anything like your writing - AMAZE.

 

Bob-brain?  :laugh:

(check your PM)

[[Ho...]]

To be honest even being called an "atheist" is almost too religious a term for me. As weird as that might sound.

 

Theism and atheism are more like academic subjects to me, things that are interesting to read about or study, but have no bearing on my daily life whatsoever. I knew nobody who went to church while I was growing up. In fact, when I got to college, I was really surprised at how many religious people I met.