Gabapentin or Mirtazapine During Taper?

[[Oc...]]

Benadryl? For what, anxiety, help with a gabapentin/Klonopin taper?

 

For insomnia. Am I missing where the thread has gone? i thought that was what it was about.  Sorry if I'm off base.

 

You are not off base. My fault. Not getting enough sleep to think straight. Looks like I blurred two topics into one. I AM really struggling with insomnia, so I went to this category. The OP mentioned Gabapentin, which is something I am also struggling with. So confused right now. Sorry.

 

Maybe there is a gabapentin thread on this site as it relates/interferes with benzo’s?

[[Mo...]]

I was recently prescribed Gabapentin for a Klonopin taper, taking 800mg at the moment. I didn’t like the side effects of Gabapentin and it did not help with my anxiety or insomnia. I’ve heard it is very hard to get off of, and I tried once to get off, but failed. I also heard that Gabapentin will prolong the healing of those GABA receptors. So for me, Gabapentin is very addicting. With that said, having been on Klonopin for 30 years and Gabapentin for a few months, I would guess it would be easier to first get off the Gabapentin.

 

So it seems I am addicted to two drugs and not sure which drug to get off of first. Anyone here who could share their personal experience with these two drugs would be greatly appreciated. Which drug did you taper off first, the benzo or gabapentin? Thanks.

I have been on .5mg of k for 8 years for pain, 4 years on gabapentin during that time. No wd the first time coming off of gabapentin. The second time I started and stopped gp was Jan of this year. It was horrible for me. I couldn't get off on my own and had to go the VA psych ward. The first three weeks were so much like they describe benzo withdrawals. It took 4 more months before I felt healed from it. I switched over from K to valium and am currently tapering with very mild wd. This is just my exprerience so far. I still have 2 more mg of v to taper off from but had a much harder time tapering gabapentin and I was only on it for 10 days the second time. During the eight years I was on K. I never had interdose withdrawals and never had to updose. Perhaps this is why I'm only having mild wd while tapering. But I'm also doing it slowly. gabapentin also comes in liquid form if you need to microtaper. I had to do this but the withdrawals were so bad for me that I had to go to the VA so I could get off of it and succeed but I got down to 100mg 2x aday before I stopped.

[[Oc...]]

You know they come in capsules so I suppose you can open them up, remove a bit, and so forth. I found it easier when I had my Valium as a backup. But the drug stinks so I think it’s a good decision on your part......

 

Thank you. I’ve opened Cymbalta capsules to create a half dose, so I will definitely open up those gabapentin capsules when it gets hard, maybe around 500mg, I.e. 500, 450, 400...0. I’ve seen people cut gabapentin tablets, so I will ask my doctor for the tablet form.

[[Oc...]]

I was recently prescribed Gabapentin for a Klonopin taper, taking 800mg at the moment. I didn’t like the side effects of Gabapentin and it did not help with my anxiety or insomnia. I’ve heard it is very hard to get off of, and I tried once to get off, but failed. I also heard that Gabapentin will prolong the healing of those GABA receptors. So for me, Gabapentin is very addicting. With that said, having been on Klonopin for 30 years and Gabapentin for a few months, I would guess it would be easier to first get off the Gabapentin.

 

So it seems I am addicted to two drugs and not sure which drug to get off of first. Anyone here who could share their personal experience with these two drugs would be greatly appreciated. Which drug did you taper off first, the benzo or gabapentin? Thanks.

I have been on .5mg of k for 8 years for pain, 4 years on gabapentin during that time. No wd the first time coming off of gabapentin. The second time I started and stopped gp was Jan of this year. It was horrible for me. I couldn't get off on my own and had to go the VA psych ward. The first three weeks were so much like they describe benzo withdrawals. It took 4 more months before I felt healed from it. I switched over from K to valium and am currently tapering with very mild wd. This is just my exprerience so far. I still have 2 more mg of v to taper off from but had a much harder time tapering gabapentin and I was only on it for 10 days the second time. During the eight years I was on K. I never had interdose withdrawals and never had to updose. Perhaps this is why I'm only having mild wd while tapering. But I'm also doing it slowly. gabapentin also comes in liquid form if you need to microtaper. I had to do this but the withdrawals were so bad for me that I had to go to the VA so I could get off of it and succeed but I got down to 100mg 2x aday before I stopped.

 

Thanks for sharing. I know this thread is for insomnia, so I will share a little of my story with gabapentin as it relates to sleep and other problems.

 

I was prescribed gabapentin not just for a Klonopin taper, but for anxiety, SLEEP and nerve pain. So it was supposed to be a multi-purpose drug. In the beginning it did calm me down a bit, and taking it before bedtime helped me to feel drowsy. Overtime it stopped making me feel drowsy, stopped helping with anxiety and never helped with nerve pain. Now, that is just my experience with the drug. It didn’t work for me.  If it helps some folks, that’s great, and it will also keep your doctor happy, as gabapentin seems to be a leading drug to prescribe when getting a patient off a benzo. I’m guessing that Valium is the last drug they would prescribe for a benzo withdrawal, since with all the recent government regulations (this is what they tell me), doctors are way more hesitant to write a script for any benzo.

 

Too bad there are some doctors that feel that way about a valium crossover, as the Ashton crossover method makes so much sense, especially for benzos with a short half-life, like Xanax.

[[Mo...]]

I was recently prescribed Gabapentin for a Klonopin taper, taking 800mg at the moment. I didn’t like the side effects of Gabapentin and it did not help with my anxiety or insomnia. I’ve heard it is very hard to get off of, and I tried once to get off, but failed. I also heard that Gabapentin will prolong the healing of those GABA receptors. So for me, Gabapentin is very addicting. With that said, having been on Klonopin for 30 years and Gabapentin for a few months, I would guess it would be easier to first get off the Gabapentin.

 

So it seems I am addicted to two drugs and not sure which drug to get off of first. Anyone here who could share their personal experience with these two drugs would be greatly appreciated. Which drug did you taper off first, the benzo or gabapentin? Thanks.

I have been on .5mg of k for 8 years for pain, 4 years on gabapentin during that time. No wd the first time coming off of gabapentin. The second time I started and stopped gp was Jan of this year. It was horrible for me. I couldn't get off on my own and had to go the VA psych ward. The first three weeks were so much like they describe benzo withdrawals. It took 4 more months before I felt healed from it. I switched over from K to valium and am currently tapering with very mild wd. This is just my exprerience so far. I still have 2 more mg of v to taper off from but had a much harder time tapering gabapentin and I was only on it for 10 days the second time. During the eight years I was on K. I never had interdose withdrawals and never had to updose. Perhaps this is why I'm only having mild wd while tapering. But I'm also doing it slowly. gabapentin also comes in liquid form if you need to microtaper. I had to do this but the withdrawals were so bad for me that I had to go to the VA so I could get off of it and succeed but I got down to 100mg 2x aday before I stopped.

 

Thanks for sharing. I know this thread is for insomnia, so I will share a little of my story with gabapentin as it relates to sleep and other problems.

 

I was prescribed gabapentin not just for a Klonopin taper, but for anxiety, SLEEP and nerve pain. So it was supposed to be a multi-purpose drug. In the beginning it did calm me down a bit, and taking it before bedtime helped me to feel drowsy. Overtime it stopped making me feel drowsy, stopped helping with anxiety and never helped with nerve pain. Now, that is just my experience with the drug. It didn’t work for me.  If it helps some folks, that’s great, and it will also keep your doctor happy, as gabapentin seems to be a leading drug to prescribe when getting a patient off a benzo. I’m guessing that Valium is the last drug they would prescribe for a benzo withdrawal, since with all the recent government regulations (this is what they tell me), doctors are way more hesitant to write a script for any benzo.

 

Too bad there are some doctors that feel that way about a valium crossover, as the Ashton crossover method makes so much sense, especially for benzos with a short half-life, like Xanax.

When I asked my docs to switch me from klonopin to valium the said "Why would I do that?" I had to bring in the Ashton manual before they would do that. I don't know why they are so resistant to the idea. I have a great neurologist who told me that most people don't have a problem coming off gabapentin but when they do it's horrific. I also told him once I come off of valium I'd never take a GABA drug ever again. He said "good for you". He also wanted to make sure that I was getting help coming off of valium and to do it slowly.

[[Ch...]]

I was recently prescribed Gabapentin for a Klonopin taper, taking 800mg at the moment. I didn’t like the side effects of Gabapentin and it did not help with my anxiety or insomnia. I’ve heard it is very hard to get off of, and I tried once to get off, but failed. I also heard that Gabapentin will prolong the healing of those GABA receptors. So for me, Gabapentin is very addicting. With that said, having been on Klonopin for 30 years and Gabapentin for a few months, I would guess it would be easier to first get off the Gabapentin.

 

So it seems I am addicted to two drugs and not sure which drug to get off of first. Anyone here who could share their personal experience with these two drugs would be greatly appreciated. Which drug did you taper off first, the benzo or gabapentin? Thanks.

 

Hi,

 

Hopefully you didn’t hear that here! If so, please let us know so we can correct that post.  Neurontin (gabapentin) does not affect the GABAa receptors, so it does not prevent healing from benzodiazepines.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686247

 

So that’s some good news!

 

Challis 

[[be...]]

Hear that here. Clever challis99 

[[Oc...]]

I was recently prescribed Gabapentin for a Klonopin taper, taking 800mg at the moment. I didn’t like the side effects of Gabapentin and it did not help with my anxiety or insomnia. I’ve heard it is very hard to get off of, and I tried once to get off, but failed. I also heard that Gabapentin will prolong the healing of those GABA receptors. So for me, Gabapentin is very addicting. With that said, having been on Klonopin for 30 years and Gabapentin for a few months, I would guess it would be easier to first get off the Gabapentin.

 

So it seems I am addicted to two drugs and not sure which drug to get off of first. Anyone here who could share their personal experience with these two drugs would be greatly appreciated. Which drug did you taper off first, the benzo or gabapentin? Thanks.

 

Hi,

 

Hopefully you didn’t hear that here! If so, please let us know so we can correct that post.  Neurontin (gabapentin) does not affect the GABAa receptors, so it does not prevent healing from benzodiazepines.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9686247

 

So that’s some good news!

 

Challis 

 

 

That is good news, thank you.

 

Correct. I didn’t get it from this site, but from YouTube    Prescription drug web sites have this to say about Gabapentin -

 

Gabapentin is an analog of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), a neurotransmitter that slows down the activity of nerve cells in the brain, but does not bind to GABA receptors or affect the production or uptake of GABA

 

 

[[va...]]

Thank you Challis and Ocean fiddle. There's too much misinformation being thrown about carelessly.

[[He...]]

Just a general fyi here from Medscape:

 

Gabapentin is an analog of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), a neurotransmitter that slows down the activity of nerve cells in the brain, but does not bind to GABA receptors or affect the production or uptake of GABA. How gabapentin works and how it relieves pain and suppresses seizures are unknown

 

However, having pointed that out, I would like to add that I took gabapentin in very large doses for (unrelated) pain during my taper, and it was a horrible, horrible drug to get off. Yes, it helped neuropathic pain and it did help me to sleep, but it had its own miserable s/x. I tapered it off after valium.

 

I have never been able to understand why it is prescribed as something that will (maybe) help with benzo w/ds.

 

Anyhow, just sayin' 

 

Katz

 

 

Katz,

 

I agree 100% - The Gabapentin is a horrible drug. I seem to be ok dropping Xanax but I am in tolerance to both and I think the Gabapentin is helping to drop the Xanax. But the last drop on Gabapentin to even out my dose was a miserable experience.  I know I will have to go SLOW.  Glad to hear you are well!

 

Mrs. No

 

 

 

[[tr...]]

Hi - I am the original poster looking for relief from rebound insomnia. At the time the offer from NP was for Gabapentin or Mirtazapine. Potential side effect profile of mirtazapine is still scaring me away. I've worked super hard to control cholesterol through healthy diet and exercise and I don't want to lose that. Mirt. is implicated in weight gain and increased cholesterol. I did try Gabapentin for a short time at 100-500 mg doses. It didn't help with sleep, it did give me constipation, and I think it helped with anxiety - a new rebound symptom that has emerged. Then I tried Silenor at 3 mg and 6 mg, no real relief but some unpleasant side effects, so I have just stopped taking that. A sleep specialist I saw said he heard me talking a lot about anxiety, which he thinks is more than just sleep related anxiety (though that is a huge issue). Of course he recommended CBT-I, which I am pursuing. Now the NP is throwing out all of these names of anti anxiety/antidepressant meds. Suddenly I am kind of freaked out about taking MORE things, but at the same time I have to do something to address this insomnia. I haven't been able to continue my taper because of it. Both Gabapentin and Silenor, though they didn't really help me and I only took them each for less than a month, left me even more sleepless. All I'm taking now is .8 mg clonazepam and marijuana at night. The pot does help somewhat. Without it I wouldn't be sleeping at all. With it I'm sleeping a few hours. I have felt unwell for many days in a row, so distressing. Studies do not point to any clear cut answers about how to address insomnia (and anxiety) during taper. I have been offered trazadone, buspirone, seroquel, and others by the psychiatric NP who is flying by the seat of her pants.

It all scares me now that I've had difficulty during and after two meds that were supposed to help. Advice welcome.

[[th...]]

Hi - I am the original poster looking for relief from rebound insomnia. At the time the offer from NP was for Gabapentin or Mirtazapine. Potential side effect profile of mirtazapine is still scaring me away. I've worked super hard to control cholesterol through healthy diet and exercise and I don't want to lose that. Mirt. is implicated in weight gain and increased cholesterol. I did try Gabapentin for a short time at 100-500 mg doses. It didn't help with sleep, it did give me constipation, and I think it helped with anxiety - a new rebound symptom that has emerged. Then I tried Silenor at 3 mg and 6 mg, no real relief but some unpleasant side effects, so I have just stopped taking that. A sleep specialist I saw said he heard me talking a lot about anxiety, which he thinks is more than just sleep related anxiety (though that is a huge issue). Of course he recommended CBT-I, which I am pursuing. Now the NP is throwing out all of these names of anti anxiety/antidepressant meds. Suddenly I am kind of freaked out about taking MORE things, but at the same time I have to do something to address this insomnia. I haven't been able to continue my taper because of it. Both Gabapentin and Silenor, though they didn't really help me and I only took them each for less than a month, left me even more sleepless. All I'm taking now is .8 mg clonazepam and marijuana at night. The pot does help somewhat. Without it I wouldn't be sleeping at all. With it I'm sleeping a few hours. I have felt unwell for many days in a row, so distressing. Studies do not point to any clear cut answers about how to address insomnia (and anxiety) during taper. I have been offered trazadone, buspirone, seroquel, and others by the psychiatric NP who is flying by the seat of her pants.

It all scares me now that I've had difficulty during and after two meds that were supposed to help. Advice welcome.

 

I hear you about Mirtazapine. I gained about 14lbs in a month on it. Intense carb cravings. My friend is a nurse and mentioned that people that are hospitalized but have no appetite are often given that so they will eat.

 

I've tried Gabapentin but didn't notice any difference, 300mg I think. If it would help with anxiety, I would try it again now that I'm off all other meds.

 

I tried Silenor, but I think it made me really groggy.

 

And weed just puts me in a negative headspace (or just magnifies the negative headspace that I'm in) and doesn't help me fall asleep.

 

I guess I don't have any advice for you... 

[[Ne...]]

Have you tried Benadryl or Vistaril (hydroxyzine )  they are both antihistamines and were helpful--- especially Vistaril.

Blessing and healing

[[or...]]

trode:

 

I have to do something to address this insomnia. I haven't been able to continue my taper because of it.

 

I'll tell you what finally worked for me. After trying EVERYTHING from Unisom to tryptophan to melatonin (I refused the prescription drugs) I discovered marijuana. I tried various combinations and finally found one that worked for me. It works consistently every night with no grogginess in the morning and no craziness in the head. It's a 2:1 CBD to THC strain called Harlequin. And the THC is indica, not sativa. The THC just seems to make the CBD work better. I also make my own tinctures -- I just made a batch of CBD called Blue Genius and a batch of THC/indica called Manga OG. I will combine the two to get a 2:1 when I run out of Harlequin.

 

So, I hope marijuana is legal in your state. It sure helped me a lot. No more Ambien, no more fooling with OTC sleep preps.

 

Oh, and if you want my tincture "recipe" just PM me.

 

Wishing you the best,

 

 

Katz

[[Ra...]]

Thanks to everyone for their replies to the op.  My Dr. asked the same question.  Gabapentin or Mertazapine.  I've actually tried them both BEFORE I started my taper.  I hated the Gabapentin... it revved me up.  The Mirt was ok but I was tired in the daytime.  I guess I could try the 15 mg dose or even 10. I was on 7mg before... slept well but was hungry a lot!!! 🙄🤦‍♀️  Thanks again and good luck to the OP! 

[[wa...]]

I found that gabapentin helps a little with anxiety, but it also makes me very lethargic. I currently take 300mg gabapentin, 100mg trazadone and some melatonin for sleep. The trazadone and melatonin are the sleep aids. You shouldn't go cold turkey off klonopin...taper off. Also when you do big downjumps in dose, you should get depakote or something similar to protect against convulsions.

[[Ra...]]

I think gabapentin also works on gaba receptors so that's something to think about. There are folks here who found it helpful and others who didn't.

 

I can only speak to mirtazapine. It saved my life initially after jumping from Ativan. I wasn't sleeping much or eating and mirtazapine helped with both. However at the higher dose (15mg), the toxic feeling built up quickly after a couple months and I knew I had to taper to a lower dose. Now I'm on 1.5mg and it's still helping with sleep and appetite. With mirt, the lower doses are more sedating since it acts as antihistamine and the higher doses are more activating since it then acts on serotonin.

 

Both gabapentin and mirtazapine need to be tapered off as well. Hope this helps!

 

1.5 mg's of mirt? How do you get that amount? My pills are 15 mg's! I took 1/4th of a pill last night and slept through an hour long tornado siren! My kids were calling all night and thought something was wrong with me! I woke up feeling like a truck hit me!  :'(

[[Th...]]

Here's a novel idea....why reach for any Rx drug for sleep?  Why ask Gabapentin or Mirtazapine?  Why not just let your body learn to sleep on it's own?  Lack of sleep will not kill you...not even close.  I survived for months on very little sleep (5-10 hours per week).  I now sleep 6-8 hours every night.  I literally tried everything Rx and and natural for sleep.  Nothing worked for more than a day or 2.  I toughed it out and sleep returned on its own and I started taking Benzos for some sleep issues.  I know lack of sleep sucks and is a form of "torture," but I survived along with many, many others on this forum and you can too!

[[be...]]

To me, eight hours of sleep per night is not a myth. It’s what my body has always needed. 

[[Th...]]

I used to believe I needed 8 hours of sleep every night as it was "what my body" needed too.  I found out that isn't even close to the truth and anyone can survive on a lot less and live a "normal" life.  I did just fine on 4-5 hours per night for a long time.  Modern science doesn't even know why we sleep...although we feel much better after a good night's sleep.  It's a Myth in the context that if you don't get 8 hours per night something bad will happen to you.  That is a complete Myth.  Sure you might feel better with 8 hours, but that is extremely hard to come by during Benzo WD induced insomnia.  Good luck!

[[Ra...]]

Here's a novel idea....why reach for any Rx drug for sleep?  Why ask Gabapentin or Mirtazapine?  Why not just let your body learn to sleep on it's own?  Lack of sleep will not kill you...not even close.  I survived for months on very little sleep (5-10 hours per week).  I now sleep 6-8 hours every night.  I literally tried everything Rx and and natural for sleep.  Nothing worked for more than a day or 2.  I toughed it out and sleep returned on its own and I started taking Benzos for some sleep issues.  I know lack of sleep sucks and is a form of "torture," but I survived along with many, many others on this forum and you can too!

 

Did you have to work to keep a roof over your head? Did you have to work with no other choice? I have tried the natural approach with no meds other than a tiny amount of Clonazepam now for several months and now have sleep deprivation.  There are MANY studies that state as fact that sleep deprivation is bad for your health and can even contribute to more medical issues if you are older or not a healthy person.  There's too much mis-information here and what works for one may not work for another.  Why don't we all just make suggestions and allow each other the freedom to choose whatever works for us without feeling guilty. I'm really glad that you were able to go days on end with no sleep but some of us cannot.  I would rather take something to help me then be homeless on the street because I could not get or keep a job because of sleep deprivation or another medical problem. 

[[Ra...]]

To me, eight hours of sleep per night is not a myth. It’s what my body has always needed. 

 

Me too. 

[[Ra...]]

Thank you Challis and Ocean fiddle. There's too much misinformation being thrown about carelessly.

 

Too much information and too many suggestions as to what to take or not to take.  It's mind boggling to come here for help.  Everyone is a critic.   

[[Ne...]]

RaquelRocks---

 

How are you doing your liquid titration of clonazepam what's your method or mixture.  Did you use a compound pharmacy if so what's the mixture.

mL's and ingredients etc.

thanks for your help

[[Th...]]

Here's a novel idea....why reach for any Rx drug for sleep?  Why ask Gabapentin or Mirtazapine?  Why not just let your body learn to sleep on it's own?  Lack of sleep will not kill you...not even close.  I survived for months on very little sleep (5-10 hours per week).  I now sleep 6-8 hours every night.  I literally tried everything Rx and and natural for sleep.  Nothing worked for more than a day or 2.  I toughed it out and sleep returned on its own and I started taking Benzos for some sleep issues.  I know lack of sleep sucks and is a form of "torture," but I survived along with many, many others on this forum and you can too!

 

Did you have to work to keep a roof over your head? Did you have to work with no other choice? I have tried the natural approach with no meds other than a tiny amount of Clonazepam now for several months and now have sleep deprivation.  There are MANY studies that state as fact that sleep deprivation is bad for your health and can even contribute to more medical issues if you are older or not a healthy person.  There's too much mis-information here and what works for one may not work for another.  Why don't we all just make suggestions and allow each other the freedom to choose whatever works for us without feeling guilty. I'm really glad that you were able to go days on end with no sleep but some of us cannot.  I would rather take something to help me then be homeless on the street because I could not get or keep a job because of sleep deprivation or another medical problem. 

 

Yes, I worked through my entire WD and took sick days as needed.  I had FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) approved, but never used it.  I am not saying that to shame you or anyone else or make anyone feel guilty.  You have to do what is best for you, but IMO putting more Rx drugs in your body that created the issues in the first place makes no sense.  It's like dumping gasoline on a fire you want to put out!  I don't think anyone has insomnia from a lack of a Benzo in their blood or any other Rx drug that may help you sleep.  I completely disagree with your "mis-information" of the MANY studies that show a lack of sleep causes this or that... I apologize if the previous post offended you.