Gabapentin or Mirtazapine During Taper?

[[Ra...]]

Benzo WD induced insomnia is NOT a medical emergency no matter how much anyone wants to claim it is.  Unfortunately facts really don't care about feelings.  I was in 4 different ERs over a 4-6 week period (I can't remember the exact timeline now as it was over 3 years ago) and not once, even after telling the ER staff I only got 5 hours of sleep over 7 days did they say they would admit me because lack of sleep was serious.  Maybe people have had hospital experiences with lack of sleep due to something other than quitting Benzos? I don't know, but I do know hardly anyone gets 8 hours (even with drugs) during Benzo created insomnia.

 

I saw a Benzo-wise psychiatrist for several months and he told me there was no way that a temporary (even up to a year or two) lack of sleep could kill me or do any other "serious" harm to me.  He was the one that told me my body would get all of the sleep it needed (given the fact that my body's gas pedal--glutatmate--was stuck to the floor and my body's brake pedal--GABA--was temporarily broken) before anything bad could happen.  I felt wired and tired all of the time, but could barely sleep for months.  I am glad others can get relief from Remeron, Seroquel, Gabapentin etc. but no Rx drug worked for me for more than a day or two.  I had to survive without drugs.  Micro Sleep and short periods of sleep sustained me (and countless others) until my GABA and Glutamate receptors balanced out.

 

Instead of arguing about how much sleep a person needs or doesn't need because we are all different, just know that whatever sleep a person gets during Benzo induced insomnia is what their body needs at that time.  More is better, but telling people that x amount is required during recovery or else doesn't provide hope and only makes people more anxious about not sleeping...IMO.  One of the moderators on this forum (Leslie Ash) said she got 1-2 hours per night for 2 years and now sleeps more than 8 hours per night.

 

This site is about peer experiences....what worked and what didn't and is more valuable coming from those that made it to the "other side" IMO.  Will that apply to even one person...maybe not?  BUT I do know that one piece of advice that applies to everyone universally is that everyone HEALS to their pre-Benzo baseline or pre-drug health baseline AFTER they are off all drugs.

 

My original post was never intended to tell people what to do or shame them or make them feel guilty about what they need to do personally.  It was just another "option" and only for those that can accept it.  In this politically correct world we live in the magic words to get what you want are not please and thank you, but rather "I'm offended."

 

Are you a Doctor or a trained specialist? Your post may not have intended to do this or that but it came off as "judgemental and condemning" for those of us that are struggling... for those of us that cannot function, for those of us who have lost jobs, friends and quality of life.  Without naming names there are people here that I respect that have made it to the other side of Benzo withdrawal while taking another med and they did it successfully.  A few of those people I respect to the utmost and they have been amazing as far as their advise, suggestions and help while not judging a person who has to get help while tapering a Benzo.  I truthfully don't care if a person made it through their taper without the use of a crossover med, etc. because that person is not me.  Truthfully, I don't wish to interact with you any longer here because you seem to have zero compassion and truthfully you "don't get it". I don't do well with your personality type and avoid it as much as possible.  I feel really bad for some of the people here that are suffering... they are looking for answers and have to read all this bs. I can also see why many outside sources say that this forum can be a very discouraging place to be.  Again a HUGE CONGRATS on your expertise and successful taper without the use of another med.  Good bye.

[[Ra...]]

Whatever..... all I know is I feel like crap ..... can't wait to feel normal.

 

Don't worry about him... you follow your own way of surviving this and do what you need to do for you! You are doing a great job!! 

[[Ne...]]

RaquelROCKS

 

[[Qu...]]

My old tapering doctor told me that gabapentin potentiates benzos, so when you get to lower doses they are more effective. Not sure why this was a good thing, or if it's true, or what that even really means. She actually told me that if she were dropped on an island the one drug she would want to take with her was gabapentin. I was walking out the door and I asked, "not an antibiotic?" She was not a great doctor.

 

Incidentally, my theory on why it is often prescribed for benzos it is because it has the word gaba in it. I think it really is that dumb of a reason. And they don't understand that we (probably) have enough already. And then some doctors prescribe it for neuropathic pain, which I believe it is actually for. And I guess if you have less pain you're more likely to get more sleep? Some people seem to benefit from it. I'm sure other's know better than me why. I took it when I was tapering and I think it might have helped, and it didn't kill me; I took it during withdrawal and it made me feel nuts. But that's just me. I took remeron and doxepine when I was tapering and they helped me sleep very well. I tried them during withdrawal and they were far less effective.

 

Being alive and having a quality of life are two different things. Of course, it would be ideal if we could all stay off all medication. And we just don't know what effect being on something will have on us; this site is ample evidence of how varied we all are especially under our current circumstances. But the simple fact that you won't physically die from the lack of something does not mean that it isn't causing you damage, whether physically or mentally, or in other areas of your life. We all have different thresholds, different things we find vital.

 

You're in a war; you do what you have to do. Sometimes that means enduring suffering; sometimes that means letting the medic stitch you together.

[[Ra...]]

RaquelROCKS

 

 

Much love and hugs!!! 

[[Ne...]]

RR--

Thanks ditto and hugs

[[Ra...]]

My old tapering doctor told me that gabapentin potentiates benzos, so when you get to lower doses they are more effective. Not sure why this was a good thing, or if it's true, or what that even really means. She actually told me that if she were dropped on an island the one drug she would want to take with her was gabapentin. I was walking out the door and I asked, "not an antibiotic?" She was not a great doctor.

 

Incidentally, my theory on why it is often prescribed for benzos it is because it has the word gaba in it. I think it really is that dumb of a reason. And they don't understand that we (probably) have enough already. And then some doctors prescribe it for neuropathic pain, which I believe it is actually for. And I guess if you have less pain you're more likely to get more sleep? Some people seem to benefit from it. I'm sure other's know better than me why. I took it when I was tapering and I think it might have helped, and it didn't kill me; I took it during withdrawal and it made me feel nuts. But that's just me. I took remeron and doxepine when I was tapering and they helped me sleep very well. I tried them during withdrawal and they were far less effective.

 

Being alive and having a quality of life are two different things. Of course, it would be ideal if we could all stay off all medication. And we just don't know what effect being on something will have on us; this site is ample evidence of how varied we all are especially under our current circumstances. But the simple fact that you won't physically die from the lack of something does not mean that it isn't causing you damage, whether physically or mentally, or in other areas of your life. We all have different thresholds, different things we find vital.

 

You're in a war; you do what you have to do. Sometimes that means enduring suffering; sometimes that means letting the medic stitch you together.

 

Very well said and agreed!! 

[[...]]

Following

[[Th...]]

Benzo WD induced insomnia is NOT a medical emergency no matter how much anyone wants to claim it is.  Unfortunately facts really don't care about feelings.  I was in 4 different ERs over a 4-6 week period (I can't remember the exact timeline now as it was over 3 years ago) and not once, even after telling the ER staff I only got 5 hours of sleep over 7 days did they say they would admit me because lack of sleep was serious.  Maybe people have had hospital experiences with lack of sleep due to something other than quitting Benzos? I don't know, but I do know hardly anyone gets 8 hours (even with drugs) during Benzo created insomnia.

 

I saw a Benzo-wise psychiatrist for several months and he told me there was no way that a temporary (even up to a year or two) lack of sleep could kill me or do any other "serious" harm to me.  He was the one that told me my body would get all of the sleep it needed (given the fact that my body's gas pedal--glutatmate--was stuck to the floor and my body's brake pedal--GABA--was temporarily broken) before anything bad could happen.  I felt wired and tired all of the time, but could barely sleep for months.  I am glad others can get relief from Remeron, Seroquel, Gabapentin etc. but no Rx drug worked for me for more than a day or two.  I had to survive without drugs.  Micro Sleep and short periods of sleep sustained me (and countless others) until my GABA and Glutamate receptors balanced out.

 

Instead of arguing about how much sleep a person needs or doesn't need because we are all different, just know that whatever sleep a person gets during Benzo induced insomnia is what their body needs at that time.  More is better, but telling people that x amount is required during recovery or else doesn't provide hope and only makes people more anxious about not sleeping...IMO.  One of the moderators on this forum (Leslie Ash) said she got 1-2 hours per night for 2 years and now sleeps more than 8 hours per night.

 

This site is about peer experiences....what worked and what didn't and is more valuable coming from those that made it to the "other side" IMO.  Will that apply to even one person...maybe not?  BUT I do know that one piece of advice that applies to everyone universally is that everyone HEALS to their pre-Benzo baseline or pre-drug health baseline AFTER they are off all drugs.

 

My original post was never intended to tell people what to do or shame them or make them feel guilty about what they need to do personally.  It was just another "option" and only for those that can accept it.  In this politically correct world we live in the magic words to get what you want are not please and thank you, but rather "I'm offended."

 

Are you a Doctor or a trained specialist? Your post may not have intended to do this or that but it came off as "judgemental and condemning" for those of us that are struggling... for those of us that cannot function, for those of us who have lost jobs, friends and quality of life.  Without naming names there are people here that I respect that have made it to the other side of Benzo withdrawal while taking another med and they did it successfully.  A few of those people I respect to the utmost and they have been amazing as far as their advise, suggestions and help while not judging a person who has to get help while tapering a Benzo.  I truthfully don't care if a person made it through their taper without the use of a crossover med, etc. because that person is not me.  Truthfully, I don't wish to interact with you any longer here because you seem to have zero compassion and truthfully you "don't get it". I don't do well with your personality type and avoid it as much as possible.  I feel really bad for some of the people here that are suffering... they are looking for answers and have to read all this bs. I can also see why many outside sources say that this forum can be a very discouraging place to be.  Again a HUGE CONGRATS on your expertise and successful taper without the use of another med.  Good bye.

 

My post(s) didn't put Benzos in your mouth daily for years.  My post didn't get your Benzo script refilled time and time again year after year.  My posts did not make you take Benzos for all the years you took them.  My post(s) did not cause you to become a person that "cannot function, or lose your job, friends and quality of life."  That all happened LONG before I posted.  The root word of responsibility is "response."  Your response to your current situation is to lash out and call me and others "rude and judgemental" because you are suffering.  Benzos cause you to only read and see what you want to see.  My post(s) is/are not judgmental and condemning.  But offers hope to those that are going through Benzo induced insomnia.  It provides FACTS (not BS) about temporary lack of sleep from a licensed Doctor that has treated Benzo WD and related symptoms for over 20 years!  You followed a doctor's advice then ask "are you a doctor?"  But doctors got you, me and everyone else on this site into the mess you are in now?  I have tons of compassion and almost all of my posts are positive and encouraging.  All you have to do is search for any of my older posts.  The fact that you are in Benzo WD has nothing to do with me or anyone else on this forum!  Your anger and frustration is misguided.  If you want to be upset with someone, be upset with the doctors that prescribed you the drugs and the pharmaceutical companies that make Benzos.  BTW, I said a few times I NEVER tapered, but did a cold turkey, yet your misguided indignation blinds you from seeing the truth or fully reading and understanding any post you don't agree with.

 

I apologize to those I offended by trying to give them hope.  But as I said, in this politically correct world, everyone is offended by almost anything.  In WD, your offense is most likely "fake news" as your Benzo ravaged brain almost always goes to the negative and the worst case scenario!

 

I take full responsibility for my decision to take Benzos even though a doctor told me they were safe.  The entire point of this post and other posts is/was to give people hope and that HOPE is listed below regardless of your hypocritical name calling, judging and rudeness!

1) Get all the sleep you can during Benzo induced insomnia, but know that even with other sleep inducing drugs sleep is hard to come by until you are off all drugs and heal.

2) You might feel like crap, but lack of sleep won't kill you!

3) Even if you don't get 8 hours per night by taking another drug such as Mirt or Gabapentin, you'll be fine even though you might feel like crap or feel like you can't function!

4) Sleep returns after you are off all drugs.  People heal to their pre-Benzo sleep.  If you never had insomnia before Benzos sleep will return.

5) Be grateful for any sleep you do get with or without drugs

6) Live the best life you can while in WD.  It doesn't last forever!

7) You'll get past this and get your life back!

[[va...]]

Theway I see you also had SI? Mine was real bad, especially during the terror filled sleepless nights of zero sleep. That's why I decided to upsose and start gabapentin. I don't regret it because I don't know if I'd be alive. I do enjoy reading your posts in case I ever go into acute again. However you were a short time user. Maybe that makes it easier for the brain to recover?

[[Pa...]]

This has been a lively discussion, but I hope it can get back on track because a lot of good information has been exchanged.   

[[Th...]]

Here's proof that not getting 8 hours per night is a MYTH.  Some on this forum say not sleeping 8 hours per night will harm your health, shorten your life etc., when 8 hours is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get during BENZO induced insomnia.  Even Chronic, long-term insomnia shows no difference in mortality rates versus people that don't have insomnia!

 

Insomnia and mortality: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30529432 (A meta-analysis published in 2019 that included 36,938,981 individuals and found no difference in the odds of mortality for those individuals with symptoms of insomnia when compared to those without symptoms).

 

That's almost 37 MILLION people and there is no increase in mortality if you have chronic insomnia.  Benzo induced insomnia is TEMPORARY, not chronic!

 

Here's a link to a podcast that repeatedly says 8 hours is a MYTH!  FAKE NEWS.  FALSE!  https://insomniacoach.com/busting-sleep-insomnia-myths-jade-wu-ep13/

[[va...]]

My insomnia is a combination of benzo withdrawal and complex trauma. I hated it last summer when I crashed and slept between 0-2 hours most nights for two months. I really like to read you posts The Way because I don't know if your viewpoint is true, however, if I ever crash again, I'd rather believe all this info as it's less scary than to believe that I can die for lack of sleep. However it's very difficult to lead a productive life with zero sleep, raise children and work for instance. You won't DIE, but some can't be on the couch barely surviving. It would be nice to be able to do that though, but it's not everyone's reality.

[[Th...]]

Hi Valiumnomore,

 

I would never tell anyone that getting very little sleep has no impact on their life.  Getting 0-2 hours per night sucks big time and I have been there and done that for months and months.  I wouldn't wish that type of sleep (or lack of it) on anyone.  My point was and is that Benzo induced insomnia (which is temporary) will not kill you, or shorten your life span, or even make you sick.  Sure, you feel a lot better getting 4 or 5 hours or more per night versus 0-2, but it's survivable until it evens out. 

 

I used to believe that if I got a zero night, I needed to stay home on the couch or in bed.  I learned that I could still go to work and function.  I tried to be positive.  I did my best to ignore the fact that I didn't get any sleep and I usually had a decent day.  I think we can make things worse by "convincing" ourselves that we should feel like crap if we get a 0-2 night.  When I was a lot younger I used to purposely get 2 or 3 hour nights because I wanted to stay up.  It hardly bothered me at all the next day except for feeling tired.  I used that as a way to "fight back" against the feelings of doom and gloom during my Benzo induced WD insomnia.  It didn't fix it right away, but it made it easier to deal with.

 

One of the problems that a lot of people experience during WD is that we/they focus on the negative and go to the worst case scenario.  We think every pain or change is a major disease that will kill us.  That's why I believe hypochondria is a WD symptom along with being very negative.  These both feed the cycle of anxiety, depression, etc.  We need to make an honest attempt to feed the positive, this won't kill me, I can do this cycle instead.  This won't stop us from feeling like crap, but will make it easier to accept.

 

Hope you continue to heal and have great sleep!

[[va...]]

Thank you Theway2. It might be true you won't die but if you have to work and drive, it could cause an accident. If someone is sleepless and is forced to work, drive and or parent or all of the above, maybe a sleep aid is safer than going around driving a car with no sleep. I also went many sleepless nights when I was young, but then again, I was young 😊

[[Th...]]

I never felt sleepy enough to nod off while driving or any other time during my Benzo WD induced insomnia and that was after not sleeping for 3 and sometimes 4 nights in a row.  If I could have nodded off, I could have taken a nap, but that was also impossible.  As you may already know, Benzo WD induced insomnia is not the same as insomnia that people get without taking drugs.  I could have nodded off when I was younger and forced myself to say awake, but I had zero risk of nodding off while driving or doing anything else during WD because my brain wouldn't let me.  It won't let most people going through WD either or you would get some sleep.

 

I felt really tired, but was "wired" all the time and couldn't sleep or nap at all.  Today, I sleep well and take naps sometimes on the weekend. 

 

Again, I think too many people try to compare chronic insomnia with Benzo induced insomnia.  They are not the same thing...not even close. 

[[va...]]

I know I know, it's not the same. Nobody tries to compare those two unless they've never got the terror induced bwd insomnia.

[[Ra...]]

Benzo WD induced insomnia is NOT a medical emergency no matter how much anyone wants to claim it is.  Unfortunately facts really don't care about feelings.  I was in 4 different ERs over a 4-6 week period (I can't remember the exact timeline now as it was over 3 years ago) and not once, even after telling the ER staff I only got 5 hours of sleep over 7 days did they say they would admit me because lack of sleep was serious.  Maybe people have had hospital experiences with lack of sleep due to something other than quitting Benzos? I don't know, but I do know hardly anyone gets 8 hours (even with drugs) during Benzo created insomnia.

 

I saw a Benzo-wise psychiatrist for several months and he told me there was no way that a temporary (even up to a year or two) lack of sleep could kill me or do any other "serious" harm to me.  He was the one that told me my body would get all of the sleep it needed (given the fact that my body's gas pedal--glutatmate--was stuck to the floor and my body's brake pedal--GABA--was temporarily broken) before anything bad could happen.  I felt wired and tired all of the time, but could barely sleep for months.  I am glad others can get relief from Remeron, Seroquel, Gabapentin etc. but no Rx drug worked for me for more than a day or two.  I had to survive without drugs.  Micro Sleep and short periods of sleep sustained me (and countless others) until my GABA and Glutamate receptors balanced out.

 

Instead of arguing about how much sleep a person needs or doesn't need because we are all different, just know that whatever sleep a person gets during Benzo induced insomnia is what their body needs at that time.  More is better, but telling people that x amount is required during recovery or else doesn't provide hope and only makes people more anxious about not sleeping...IMO.  One of the moderators on this forum (Leslie Ash) said she got 1-2 hours per night for 2 years and now sleeps more than 8 hours per night.

 

This site is about peer experiences....what worked and what didn't and is more valuable coming from those that made it to the "other side" IMO.  Will that apply to even one person...maybe not?  BUT I do know that one piece of advice that applies to everyone universally is that everyone HEALS to their pre-Benzo baseline or pre-drug health baseline AFTER they are off all drugs.

 

My original post was never intended to tell people what to do or shame them or make them feel guilty about what they need to do personally.  It was just another "option" and only for those that can accept it.  In this politically correct world we live in the magic words to get what you want are not please and thank you, but rather "I'm offended."

 

Are you a Doctor or a trained specialist? Your post may not have intended to do this or that but it came off as "judgemental and condemning" for those of us that are struggling... for those of us that cannot function, for those of us who have lost jobs, friends and quality of life.  Without naming names there are people here that I respect that have made it to the other side of Benzo withdrawal while taking another med and they did it successfully.  A few of those people I respect to the utmost and they have been amazing as far as their advise, suggestions and help while not judging a person who has to get help while tapering a Benzo.  I truthfully don't care if a person made it through their taper without the use of a crossover med, etc. because that person is not me.  Truthfully, I don't wish to interact with you any longer here because you seem to have zero compassion and truthfully you "don't get it". I don't do well with your personality type and avoid it as much as possible.  I feel really bad for some of the people here that are suffering... they are looking for answers and have to read all this bs. I can also see why many outside sources say that this forum can be a very discouraging place to be.  Again a HUGE CONGRATS on your expertise and successful taper without the use of another med.  Good bye.

 

My post(s) didn't put Benzos in your mouth daily for years.  My post didn't get your Benzo script refilled time and time again year after year.  My posts did not make you take Benzos for all the years you took them.  My post(s) did not cause you to become a person that "cannot function, or lose your job, friends and quality of life."  That all happened LONG before I posted.  The root word of responsibility is "response."  Your response to your current situation is to lash out and call me and others "rude and judgemental" because you are suffering.  Benzos cause you to only read and see what you want to see.  My post(s) is/are not judgmental and condemning.  But offers hope to those that are going through Benzo induced insomnia.  It provides FACTS (not BS) about temporary lack of sleep from a licensed Doctor that has treated Benzo WD and related symptoms for over 20 years!  You followed a doctor's advice then ask "are you a doctor?"  But doctors got you, me and everyone else on this site into the mess you are in now?  I have tons of compassion and almost all of my posts are positive and encouraging.  All you have to do is search for any of my older posts.  The fact that you are in Benzo WD has nothing to do with me or anyone else on this forum!  Your anger and frustration is misguided.  If you want to be upset with someone, be upset with the doctors that prescribed you the drugs and the pharmaceutical companies that make Benzos.  BTW, I said a few times I NEVER tapered, but did a cold turkey, yet your misguided indignation blinds you from seeing the truth or fully reading and understanding any post you don't agree with.

 

I apologize to those I offended by trying to give them hope.  But as I said, in this politically correct world, everyone is offended by almost anything.  In WD, your offense is most likely "fake news" as your Benzo ravaged brain almost always goes to the negative and the worst case scenario!

 

I take full responsibility for my decision to take Benzos even though a doctor told me they were safe.  The entire point of this post and other posts is/was to give people hope and that HOPE is listed below regardless of your hypocritical name calling, judging and rudeness!

1) Get all the sleep you can during Benzo induced insomnia, but know that even with other sleep inducing drugs sleep is hard to come by until you are off all drugs and heal.

2) You might feel like crap, but lack of sleep won't kill you!

3) Even if you don't get 8 hours per night by taking another drug such as Mirt or Gabapentin, you'll be fine even though you might feel like crap or feel like you can't function!

4) Sleep returns after you are off all drugs.  People heal to their pre-Benzo sleep.  If you never had insomnia before Benzos sleep will return.

5) Be grateful for any sleep you do get with or without drugs

6) Live the best life you can while in WD.  It doesn't last forever!

7) You'll get past this and get your life back!

 

You just had to come back and have the last word didn't you? I kindly told you I didn't want to have this conversation any longer, said goodbye... yet you just keep arguing.  You are the type of person that has zero respect for the wishes and welfare of other people because you have no consideration for boundaries.  I'm guessing that you don't even know what boundaries are since you keep plowing mine down.  Bottom line... I don't care what you say, how you comment or how many times you reply because your responses are empty and ignorant. You act like a Doctor, or an expert... yet you are definitely not.  You give advise and make comments for the benefit of yourself and not others.  I would NEVER listen to your suggestions or anything you have to say and I just skim over your empty words and meaningless paragraphs... so bye, bye now... I'm not even reading your comments. 

[[Th...]]

The fact that you replied shows you DO CARE what I post and all of things you said about me really apply to YOU and YOU only (unless you're jealous?)...You just had to come back and reignite an "argument" you said you were done with in November!  And to make things worse you came back 75 days after I posted my last comment to you...and yet here you are "attacking" again because it's easier to blame someone you don't know than yourself and your doctor for taking Benzos for decades.

 

I made that post December 2nd, 2019...so it wasn't coming back and starting anything, it was made last year.  It's now February 14...That's 2.5 months later!  And it's all true. I didn't make you take Benzos or put you in WD or cause any of your earlier life experiences.

 

And if you don't read my posts then how are you able to say I "act like a doctor" and that my posts are "empty and ignorant?" And the capper...."I'm not even reading your comments."  LOL!  It's amazing how you're "not reading my posts."  How can you be offended by something you are not reading nor listening to?

 

And if my posts were for me, I wouldn't be here as I have been completely healed for over 20 months.  Not sure why you decided to blame me for your life's problems, for your WD and I am sure it is somehow my fault for things that happened to you early on in your life?  Maybe its an acute form of Misandry?

 

Please, please, please get professional help...maybe start with Anger Management and then move on to Misandry treatment! 

 

[[pi...]]

Hey folks, let's dial it back here.

 

You can agree to disagree but let's do it in a respectful and courteous manner.  Personal attacks and rude comments won't be allowed.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

pianogirl

[[tr...]]

Wowie Kazowie

This sure did draw some interesting dialogue. I am the original poster. Ultimately I concluded that no RX drug was worth the side effects, and none that I had tried was effective against insomnia anyway. The only RX drug that has ever been effective in treating my insomnia is Klonopin, which is why I was prescribed in the first place. Cruel irony. Anyway, if anyone's interested, I have continued an extremely slow taper and am down from 1.5 to less than .6 mg once nightly, with a hefty hit of cannabis immediately following. Sometimes works great, sometimes does not work great, but without it I would be sleeping even less.

Because I went on Klonopin to address severe chronic insomnia, going off it and replacing it with nothing results only in the same and even increased severe chronic insomnia. I'm just thankful there is something that helps some of the time. I get enough sleep to feel clear headed a few nights a week. The rest of the nights, at least 3 per week, my sleep is delayed, fitful, interrupted, just really horrendous and results in days of feeling like crap, like today. Even so, it is better than sleeping zero, so I'm not really complaining. Much. After a very slow start to my day, I will go out for a run, I'll lift some weights, I'll try not to eat everything in the fridge (lack of sleep does that to me). Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia was okay, no miracles, what I took from it was the knowledge that my own hyper arousal makes falling asleep so much more difficult and it's all a vicious cycle. Trying to breath deep, be patient, relax, not catastrophize, all good tools. So is this just the way I'm going to live the rest of my life, feeling like poop 3-4 of 7 days? Don't know. Hope not. Pills I guess are not the answer, for me.