False Charge: BB Is Full of People with BPD

[[Ha...]]

Hi MsAtomicBomb! Firstly I wanted to congratulate you on founding Benzodiazepine Information Coalition! Reading and watching Kristine's story should perhaps be compulsory viewing for prescribing doctors? Magnesi's observations regarding HCP just wanting to classify us and medicate etc.  seems to  resonate throughout BB, and certainly has been my own personal experience. Katz also has a very valid point (paraphrasing) that we can't expect medical professionals to provide us what they are not trained to do. In Australia I know medical students are not well trained in pharmacology, heavens knows why, since they write scripts daily!

 

But like you say change is constant. We may not have much of a chance to change the mindset of some recalcitrant healthcare providers who seem to behave in a way that their lofty medical authority is under threat. Such may be fighting an uphill battle with their patient's ever increasing awareness by educating themselves through eminent professionals who affirm their patient's knowledge. No doubt such an uncompromising attitude may well challenge the doctors's limited knowledge. Dare I say "a bitter pill to swallow"   

 

I do think the current (failing) paradigm can be shifted for sure.  Not anti- versus pro- because I think that's ineffective but meeting professionals in reality and letting facts sort behavior.

Great attitude!! We need to find an integrated approach, to groove new pathways and tackle this with as much proficiency as possible. Excuse me if I sound a little utopian   

 

Colin's post had me reflect on my recent visit to a new GP. I went to her for shoulder pain, filled out the mandatory form, told the Nurse Practitioner the reason for my visit, but immediately was questioned by the doctor if I was currently taken any meds and "how she could assist me today". I guess my past experiences and finding myself having to explain railroaded the consultation. I defended my position, proud I had successfully crossed over from X to V and in doing so had reduced my dosage during c/o phase by 20%. She then asked if I was here for a prescription, then even though I said a resounding "NO!" her telling me she couldn't prescribe me V. She then said I could see a psychiatrist and a psychologist (further adding to my distress). With benefit of hindsight after reading Colin's post, I realized she most likely had only been trying to help and knew what I was confidently telling her was beyond her scope.

 

The thing is I think she is most likely a very good doctor (rare here), and I think she did somewhat care to the best of her capacity.

 

I would like to go back to her to see if she is willing to listen (not to me complain about the benzo problem, but so she might be in a better position than me to educate other willing to be educated medical professionals? Any tips would be appreciated 

 

Curious, do you have an affiliate Information Coalition in Australia? The reality of this continuing toxic problem needs to spread in order to expedite change. No doubt I am preaching to the converted 

Harmonee

 

 

[Guest [Sk...]]

Hi MsAtomicBomb! Firstly I wanted to congratulate you on founding Benzodiazepine Information Coalition! Reading and watching Kristine's story should perhaps be compulsory viewing for prescribing doctors? Magnesi's observations regarding HCP just wanting to classify us and medicate etc.  seems to  resonate throughout BB, and certainly has been my own personal experience. Katz also has a very valid point (paraphrasing) that we can't expect medical professionals to provide us what they are not trained to do. In Australia I know medical students are not well trained in pharmacology, heavens knows why, since they write scripts daily!

But like you say change is constant. We may not have much of a chance to change the mindset of some recalcitrant healthcare providers who seem to behave in a way that their lofty medical authority is under threat. Such may be fighting an uphill battle with their patient's ever increasing awareness by educating themselves through eminent professionals who affirm their patient's knowledge. No doubt such an uncompromising attitude may well challenge the doctors's limited knowledge. Dare I say "a bitter pill to swallow"   

Harmonee

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

[[Ms...]]

Thank you for your kind words.  Absolutely should be mandatory viewing, and we are trying to make it so, or at least spread it around on twitter.  Twitter is underutilized for awareness imho.  It's a great source and isn't preaching to the choir as much as facebook can be.  I agree with the classify and medicate.  It seems like many are just trained this way, which is good and bad. Some are so set in their ways and threatened as you say, that changing would be a source of shame I suspect.  But many just go along with whatever is new.  The newer physicians in the USA are being trained that long term benzodiazepine use isn't a good idea usually, but, unfortunately they are not trained on how to get off of them.  Disaster.  We get so many emails from elderly people on benzos 30-40 years and their new doctor wants to take them off, without a clue as to how.  Very sad, but fortunately many do reach out and are able to find someone else to just leave them on, or take them off in a slower way, whichever they prefer. 

 

Hi MsAtomicBomb! Firstly I wanted to congratulate you on founding Benzodiazepine Information Coalition! Reading and watching Kristine's story should perhaps be compulsory viewing for prescribing doctors? Magnesi's observations regarding HCP just wanting to classify us and medicate etc.  seems to  resonate throughout BB, and certainly has been my own personal experience. Katz also has a very valid point (paraphrasing) that we can't expect medical professionals to provide us what they are not trained to do. In Australia I know medical students are not well trained in pharmacology, heavens knows why, since they write scripts daily!

 

But like you say change is constant. We may not have much of a chance to change the mindset of some recalcitrant healthcare providers who seem to behave in a way that their lofty medical authority is under threat. Such may be fighting an uphill battle with their patient's ever increasing awareness by educating themselves through eminent professionals who affirm their patient's knowledge. No doubt such an uncompromising attitude may well challenge the doctors's limited knowledge. Dare I say "a bitter pill to swallow"   

 

I do think the current (failing) paradigm can be shifted for sure.  Not anti- versus pro- because I think that's ineffective but meeting professionals in reality and letting facts sort behavior.

Great attitude!! We need to find an integrated approach, to groove new pathways and tackle this with as much proficiency as possible. Excuse me if I sound a little utopian   

 

Colin's post had me reflect on my recent visit to a new GP. I went to her for shoulder pain, filled out the mandatory form, told the Nurse Practitioner the reason for my visit, but immediately was questioned by the doctor if I was currently taken any meds and "how she could assist me today". I guess my past experiences and finding myself having to explain railroaded the consultation. I defended my position, proud I had successfully crossed over from X to V and in doing so had reduced my dosage during c/o phase by 20%. She then asked if I was here for a prescription, then even though I said a resounding "NO!" her telling me she couldn't prescribe me V. She then said I could see a psychiatrist and a psychologist (further adding to my distress). With benefit of hindsight after reading Colin's post, I realized she most likely had only been trying to help and knew what I was confidently telling her was beyond her scope.

 

The thing is I think she is most likely a very good doctor (rare here), and I think she did somewhat care to the best of her capacity.

 

I would like to go back to her to see if she is willing to listen (not to me complain about the benzo problem, but so she might be in a better position than me to educate other willing to be educated medical professionals? Any tips would be appreciated 

 

Curious, do you have an affiliate Information Coalition in Australia? The reality of this continuing toxic problem needs to spread in order to expedite change. No doubt I am preaching to the converted 

Harmonee

[[Ha...]]

The newer physicians in the USA are being trained that long term benzodiazepine use isn't a good idea usually, but, unfortunately they are not trained on how to get off of them.  Disaster.  We get so many emails from elderly people on benzos 30-40 years and their new doctor wants to take them off, without a clue as to how.  Very sad, but fortunately many do reach out and are able to find someone else to just leave them on, or take them off in a slower way, whichever they prefer. 

 

Yes, the same is happening here in Australia too. About 2 years ago Xanax was re-classified up from an S4 drug to an S8 drug (literally had to be kept in a safe by pharmacies). Now it is only prescribed (usually only from older doctors who have prescribed it long-term, and ready to retire). Xanax (now called Kalma) are now only dispensed in packets of 10 (used to come in packets of 50). The largest dose available is 1mg (used to be 2mg).

 

It's a very good thing for those on the other side of the prescription pad, but leaves others (as I was) in a terrible situation, knowing I just couldn't come off them quickly!  The cost had also tripled. I had been prescribed X  for 22 years (was still on the same dose originally prescribed), so I found myself in a dilemma, suspecting that the Government would be withdrawing all benzos from the market entirely. Again, a good thing but they are all very focused on prescribing SSRI's and they ignorantly believe they are non-addictive drugs.

 

It was good for me personally, as it forced me to independently find a way to finally get off the drug. I had failed numerous times over the past 20 years to find health care providers who I could even talk to about being on the drug (you're treated with suspicion and some have signs on their doors "we do not prescribe medications of addiction"). So I went to see some psychiatrists, everyone of them laughing at me, stating it was an impossibility for me to ever come off X, and instead suggested doubling my dose and adding (numerous) SSRI's  into the mix (apparently I had a chemical imbalance, which I know was not true). I refused to have the scripts filled (thank goodness!). One psychiatrist actually said as he was writing me various scripts this would give him a nice trip to Hawaii!! I hope to this day he was kidding!

 

I talked to a friend of mine who is a doctor (not telling him I was on Xanax of course; too ashamed). His brother is a psychiatrist and he was laughing about how his brother having such status as a psychiatrist was far from level headed and was on every drug known to man!! It made me reflect on the "Hawaiian trip, gadget" psychiatrist who had a strange propensity of showing me his latest new gadgets he said he had been given by pharm reps. He was completely self-focused, also seemed a little "off the air", along with his obsession with his prescription pad. Not here to suggest they are all this way, but thought he was in greater need of treatment than me, as was my friend's brother! I never returned.

 

Moving on to the past few months, I only recently found out about the packs of 10.

 

Realizing this shame, madness had to stop, I found Ashton's manual online. I watched many of her YouTube videos. She seemed to completely understand!! I decided to go with her method and switch to Valium. That was the first "deal" I did with myself; cross over to Valium (now labelled "Antenex"). My doctor told me these benzo's are no longer manufactured by the major drug companies hence the name change). But at least diazepam is still (at the present time) only classified as an S4 drug (not quite as taboo as S8), and I feel sure it too will soon be upgraded to S8. I suspect benzos will be off the market before long, another good thing if it happens, hence my dire need to entirely come off completely (a good thing I know).

 

Took Ashton's manual to my doctor going in well informed and confident, and she supported my taper. I am just a little worried she will retire (she's almost 70) before I am completely off the drug. Doing well so far, no issue with c/o and have managed to reduce, although a long road ahead.

 

I guess you receive these kinds of stories far too frequently? Do you know of any group in Australia of which I can support get the message out? My generation isn't too much into Twitter (although I hear your President is  . No disrespect intended)

 

Harmonee

 

 

[[Ms...]]

That's really scary.  I am afraid of them doing that.  I just learned they are cutting people off in Japan as well.  That will cost many their lives.  I think some are better off staying on forever, depending on how they're doing, but people should choose what they want within their options.  I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect someone with a 10+ year life expectancy to stay on though without being cut off at some point.  I hope we, as an organization, can really make a difference in how this is handled in the USA.  There's so many voices, many of whom are very loud and have 0 experience in this side of benzodiazepines.  All focused on abuse and addiction and unconcerned with compliant patient injury.

 

I hope yours doesn't retire and you're able to just finish this ordeal without any unneeded interruptions.

 

Do you know about Reconnexion (http://www.reconnexion.org.au) in Australia?

 

The newer physicians in the USA are being trained that long term benzodiazepine use isn't a good idea usually, but, unfortunately they are not trained on how to get off of them.  Disaster.  We get so many emails from elderly people on benzos 30-40 years and their new doctor wants to take them off, without a clue as to how.  Very sad, but fortunately many do reach out and are able to find someone else to just leave them on, or take them off in a slower way, whichever they prefer. 

 

Yes, the same is happening here in Australia too. About 2 years ago Xanax was re-classified up from an S4 drug to an S8 drug (literally had to be kept in a safe by pharmacies). Now it is only prescribed (usually only from older doctors who have prescribed it long-term, and ready to retire). Xanax (now called Kalma) are now only dispensed in packets of 10 (used to come in packets of 50). The largest dose available is 1mg (used to be 2mg).

 

It's a very good thing for those on the other side of the prescription pad, but leaves others (as I was) in a terrible situation, knowing I just couldn't come off them quickly!  The cost had also tripled. I had been prescribed X  for 22 years (was still on the same dose originally prescribed), so I found myself in a dilemma, suspecting that the Government would be withdrawing all benzos from the market entirely. Again, a good thing but they are all very focused on prescribing SSRI's and they ignorantly believe they are non-addictive drugs.

 

It was good for me personally, as it forced me to independently find a way to finally get off the drug. I had failed numerous times over the past 20 years to find health care providers who I could even talk to about being on the drug (you're treated with suspicion and some have signs on their doors "we do not prescribe medications of addiction"). So I went to see some psychiatrists, everyone of them laughing at me, stating it was an impossibility for me to ever come off X, and instead suggested doubling my dose and adding (numerous) SSRI's  into the mix (apparently I had a chemical imbalance, which I know was not true). I refused to have the scripts filled (thank goodness!). One psychiatrist actually said as he was writing me various scripts this would give him a nice trip to Hawaii!! I hope to this day he was kidding!

 

I talked to a friend of mine who is a doctor (not telling him I was on Xanax of course; too ashamed). His brother is a psychiatrist and he was laughing about how his brother having such status as a psychiatrist was far from level headed and was on every drug known to man!! It made me reflect on the "Hawaiian trip, gadget" psychiatrist who had a strange propensity of showing me his latest new gadgets he said he had been given by pharm reps. He was completely self-focused, also seemed a little "off the air", along with his obsession with his prescription pad. Not here to suggest they are all this way, but thought he was in greater need of treatment than me, as was my friend's brother! I never returned.

 

Moving on to the past few months, I only recently found out about the packs of 10.

 

Realizing this shame, madness had to stop, I found Ashton's manual online. I watched many of her YouTube videos. She seemed to completely understand!! I decided to go with her method and switch to Valium. That was the first "deal" I did with myself; cross over to Valium (now labelled "Antenex"). My doctor told me these benzo's are no longer manufactured by the major drug companies hence the name change). But at least diazepam is still (at the present time) only classified as an S4 drug (not quite as taboo as S8), and I feel sure it too will soon be upgraded to S8. I suspect benzos will be off the market before long, another good thing if it happens, hence my dire need to entirely come off completely (a good thing I know).

 

Took Ashton's manual to my doctor going in well informed and confident, and she supported my taper. I am just a little worried she will retire (she's almost 70) before I am completely off the drug. Doing well so far, no issue with c/o and have managed to reduce, although a long road ahead.

 

I guess you receive these kinds of stories far too frequently? Do you know of any group in Australia of which I can support get the message out? My generation isn't too much into Twitter (although I hear your President is  . No disrespect intended)

 

Harmonee

[[Ha...]]

Do you know about Reconnexion (http://www.reconnexion.org.au) in Australia?

YES!! I contacted them, was over the moon there was such an Agency! Trouble is I live in a different state (Reconnexion is in Victoria and are funded by their state government). They told me they couldn't help me due to me living in a different state. They said they constantly get calls from all over the world, especially the USA.

 

With such a pandemic I was shocked there are not such Agencies in every major city (several needed really) also regional areas. Like you said, so much focus is on the "abuse and addiction" and "no focus at all on compliant patient injury"!

 

Hoping I might connect with people who seem to have some clue, I recently took part in a Victorian university study (online) which unfortunately was of little help as it was aimed toward people who suffered chronic addictions and their "yes/no" or "choose severity between 1 - 10" questionnaires were (for me) pretty ineffectual. I see they were trying (no doubt had limited funding). To me it wasn't addressing the patient injury problem. I felt one on one or even Skype discussions in small groups may have been more beneficial to their research in that people who are genuinely stuck in this hell could feel they could "reach out" for lack of a better term and receive genuine understanding and help.

 

Your doing a GREAT job! Just read your latest blog at Benzodiazepine Information Coalition!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Rx...]]

I don't give a free pass to health professionals with no heart and incompetent as well.  They almost killed me. 

[[ca...]]

I don't give a free pass to health professionals with no heart and incompetent as well.  They almost killed me.

 

I'm with you on that! When the medical profession does a study with patient participation, they purposely rig it so that the outcome justifies their approach to treatment. Is that scientific? Not hardly!