The Klonopin Klub#2

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Hey Flibberty,

 

Don't feel guilty for feeling good, please just enjoy it. Hopefully you will be able to taper slowly all the way without any problems. That would be wonderful and actually uplifting for us to see someone do well.

 

In order to quote someone all you have to do is, before you hit reply, go to the post you want to quote and in the upper right hand corner of the post it has a button that says quote. When you hit that it creates a reply with the quote inside it. Just scroll to the bottom and start your reply under the last line. Hope that helps.

 

I've done the whole lose your post after spending so much time crafting it too. After I joined the Long Hold Support Group I saw what MiYu and some others were doing and copied them I haven't lost anything since then, knock on wood 

 

I'm so glad things are going well for you.

 

Hugs and healing 

T

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Hi MiYu,

 

I'm glad you went to SA to ask for help in this Benzo craziness. When I changed my doses from two to three a day Wellness was the moderator and she and I created a tapering plan that had me slowly pulling amounts from the times and changing the times and amounts once a week. You could do something similar with your change from three to four doses a day. I still ended up having w/d's from changing it over really slowly but it probably wasn't as bad as it could have been. I'll scroll through my thread to find it then I'll post it on here.

 

I'm really anxious about starting to taper. I was stable but then went into a wave again but I've just gotten impatient with wanting to move forward. I'm looking at so many years to taper off this med. I know they say that after a long hold we should be able to taper more easily but that generic change really smacked me. Of course I have no idea how much of a change it was. I even tapered over from one generic to the other so I really hadn't expected to be hit by w/d's from it.

 

It sounds like we both have super sensitive CNS's from other causes than the benzo's. Then we just added insult to injury.

 

I use cashew milk and I make it myself. I am only using 66mL with 1.25mg of medication to make my solution and I am tapering from that. Actually I make two days worth of doses so I don't have to cut the pill since it always seems to crumble instead of cutting. I use 132mL of milk and 2.5mg of K. The excel spreadsheet has been amazingly helpful in knowing how much to taper. I would be lost without it.

 

Let me go find that schedule I used to change my doses around. 

T

 

 

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Hey MiYu,

 

I found the info on my thread.

 

"tntd,

 

if you want to split the doses in three, that could be an alternative.  If you want to split the dose, it would mean that you would never get the large peak in concentration that you get in the evening. Splitting the doses is a bit like making a small cut in dosage because of it.

 

If you want to split the dose so that you would eventually take 0.25 mg three times a day, you would probably want to eventually take them equally spaced, like 8 hours apart.

 

If, when you start splitting the dose, you start by taking 0.5 mg in the AM, then 0.25 mg an hour before bedtime, then 0.50 mg at bedtime, then you can slowly migrate your 0.25 mg doses towards the times you want to take them, it makes the transition more gradual.  It could look something like this: 

 

Step 1  Morning 0.50 mg,  1 hour  before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 2  Morning 0.50 mg,  2 hours before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 3  Morning 0.50 mg,  3 hours  before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 4  Morning 0.50 mg,  4 hours before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

 

until you have the doses when you want them.

 

It may be a bit tricky determining what would be the best times to take your doses but evenly spaced is what you might want to aim for."

 

"Hi Wellness,

 

I am aiming for eight hours apart. Would you recommend the slow change of times over just making the change to an eight hour split?

 

Also how long would I hold at each new time one day, one week?"

 

 

"TNTD

 

a gradual change is always better. 

 

If you do a gradual change of your dosing time, and if you do the change in dosing time one hour at a time, it would take about 4 days for each change to fully come to equilibrium in your blood, but by the second day you would probably have a good idea if you were going to feel any different. So anywhere from 2 to 4 days for each one hour interval would probably be enough.

 

What times are you currently taking your doses ?

What times do you think would be good times 8 hours apart?

Are you using 0.5 mg tablets?

 

Here is another option to consider.  What if... we divided the total dose that you are currently taking by three and split the dosing time to 8- hours interval.  Here is what I mean.

 

Your total dose is now 1.25 mg, so we divided it by three, it is about 0.4 mg per dose.  So then we would take 0.1 mg from the morning dose and 0.3 mg from the evening dose and slowly migrate them to the afternoon dose.  Here is what it might look like:

 

If you are planning to take your doses at, say, 7 am, 3pm, and 11 pm for example.

 

Step 1,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 8  am, and 0.3 mg at 10 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

Step 2,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 9  am, and 0.3 mg at 9 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

Step 3,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 10am, and 0.3 mg at 8 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

.

.

.

Step 8,  0.4 mg at 7 am, (0.1 +0.3) mg at 3 pm, and 0.4 mg at 11 pm"

 

If you have any questions about this let me know. I also physically wrote a plan out in my daily journal. I will look for it as well to see what I wrote in case you have any questions it might help me.

 

Hugs,

T

 

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Thank you, tntd, for all!  I love my friends and they are so supportive, but there's no substitute for people who've been there!  A very good friend said, when I mentioned that I was scared about tapering, "Could you just take some xanax to get you through?"  I laughed and told her the scoop; she laughed, too, and took it in the best possible way.  It's really sobering, though, to see how far there is to go toward educating people about benzos.

[[fl...]]

Oh, MiYu, I forgot to say that I'm doing the weight method like Ben Zo demonstrates on Youtube, except I'm using a jeweler's scale because of my smaller measurements.

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Hey MiYu,

 

I found the info on my thread.

 

"tntd,

 

if you want to split the doses in three, that could be an alternative.  If you want to split the dose, it would mean that you would never get the large peak in concentration that you get in the evening. Splitting the doses is a bit like making a small cut in dosage because of it.

 

If you want to split the dose so that you would eventually take 0.25 mg three times a day, you would probably want to eventually take them equally spaced, like 8 hours apart.

 

If, when you start splitting the dose, you start by taking 0.5 mg in the AM, then 0.25 mg an hour before bedtime, then 0.50 mg at bedtime, then you can slowly migrate your 0.25 mg doses towards the times you want to take them, it makes the transition more gradual.  It could look something like this: 

 

Step 1  Morning 0.50 mg,  1 hour  before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 2  Morning 0.50 mg,  2 hours before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 3  Morning 0.50 mg,  3 hours  before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

Step 4  Morning 0.50 mg,  4 hours before bedtime 0.25 mg, bedtime 0.5 mg

 

until you have the doses when you want them.

 

It may be a bit tricky determining what would be the best times to take your doses but evenly spaced is what you might want to aim for."

 

"Hi Wellness,

 

I am aiming for eight hours apart. Would you recommend the slow change of times over just making the change to an eight hour split?

 

Also how long would I hold at each new time one day, one week?"

 

 

"TNTD

 

a gradual change is always better. 

 

If you do a gradual change of your dosing time, and if you do the change in dosing time one hour at a time, it would take about 4 days for each change to fully come to equilibrium in your blood, but by the second day you would probably have a good idea if you were going to feel any different. So anywhere from 2 to 4 days for each one hour interval would probably be enough.

 

What times are you currently taking your doses ?

What times do you think would be good times 8 hours apart?

Are you using 0.5 mg tablets?

 

Here is another option to consider.  What if... we divided the total dose that you are currently taking by three and split the dosing time to 8- hours interval.  Here is what I mean.

 

Your total dose is now 1.25 mg, so we divided it by three, it is about 0.4 mg per dose.  So then we would take 0.1 mg from the morning dose and 0.3 mg from the evening dose and slowly migrate them to the afternoon dose.  Here is what it might look like:

 

If you are planning to take your doses at, say, 7 am, 3pm, and 11 pm for example.

 

Step 1,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 8  am, and 0.3 mg at 10 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

Step 2,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 9  am, and 0.3 mg at 9 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

Step 3,  0.4 mg at 7 am, 0.1 at 10am, and 0.3 mg at 8 pm and 0.4 mg at 11 pm

.

.

.

Step 8,  0.4 mg at 7 am, (0.1 +0.3) mg at 3 pm, and 0.4 mg at 11 pm"

 

If you have any questions about this let me know. I also physically wrote a plan out in my daily journal. I will look for it as well to see what I wrote in case you have any questions it might help me.

 

Hugs,

T

 

OH lord , I can't get my benzo brain around that ! Thank you so much fro posting it fro me though.....I kinda get the idea ....I've been so all over the place really with this cross and dosing times , that at this point I'm not sure how much difference it will make to my symptoms .

I had less anxiety today , but more physical stress and fatigue symptoms . I have kind of split me morning dose now to 3 am and 9 am , instead of one dose at 6 am .

Then I took one at 3 pm , which is close to my former 2 pm dose , Dan will take another at 9 pm , which is only an hor I away from my former 10 pm dose .

Hoepfully I won't add insult to injury .

 

 

I'm sooo tired all the time .... I'm hoping this will let up a bit and turn out to be WDs .

The V was making me so sedated which is one reason I wanted to switch.

So hoping things will level out .

 

Love,

MiYu ❤️

[[fl...]]

I'm wishing I could help everyone who's really struggling right now feel better, but since I can't, I will just say what has made me feel better---at least for now---and maybe some of it might help you, too.  Fuzzy, I thought 2 1/2 years of hell was more than a person could bear! I am hoping you find relief soon.  I liked your list of tips, DMW; I swear by many of them, too.

 

I thought I wouldn't be able to handle the depression and anxiety I was feeling this past winter much longer; I couldn't wait to start Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.  I read piece after piece on the internet about how it had miraculously cured people's depression.  I finally started it in March.  After six weeks, all I had gained was tinnitus and the feeling that I could never clear my ears, plus even worse anxiety and no relief of depression.  That was my final flirtation, I hope, with miracle cures.  Several months later, in early summer, I was listening to "The People's Pharmacy" and heard Kulreet Chaudhary talking about her book, "The Prime."  She's a neurologist and Ayurvedic practitioner.  You may know that in Ayurveda it is believed that good health is gained through good digestion. (I'm way simplifying here).  Having been constipated and anxious since 1955 when my father died, I was really interested and bought her book and read it multiple times and incorporated many of her suggestions into my daily routine.  Things started to turn around for me.  Here's what I do:

 

1) Bone Broth, so wonderful, calming, nourishing.  I have made it myself a number of times; it is easy, if you're not feeling too bad, and cheap, or I buy it locally, which is not so cheap.  Organic, made by a person, not store bought.

 

2) CCF tea.  Cumin, coriander, and fennel seeds, 1/2 tsp each boiled together in 4 cups of water for ten minutes and sipped warm in a thermos all day.

 

3) Daily sesame oil self-massage; you can find directions on the internet.

 

4) Triphala, enough to relieve constipation so that you don't have diarrhea, but poop every day.  It does have one berry in it that may affect GABA, but I am totally confused about all that so I am not going to worry about it.  Being constipated seems the far worse thing to me as we learn more, as some of you have mentioned already, about the relationship between the gut and the brain and anxiety and depression.

 

5) Meditation, yeah, my mind wanders all over the place and I cry often, but I persist because of all the statistics about how good it is for the brain.  When my commitment falters, I read about its anti-aging benefits.  :  )

 

6) I eat according to my dosha, or body type.  You can take a quiz on-line to determine yours if you're interested.  I know that Paleo is all the rage and some people are still thinking low-fat is the way and, of course, some people have sensitivities, but my body needs grains and healthy fats; they make me feel good.  The thing that started me on the path to hell was a stressful time plus a three-day watermelon fast.  I became so anxious I lost 18 pounds in three weeks---that was when I was prescribed xanax.

 

7) I stopped drinking alcohol.  Chaudhary doesn't ban any foods, (she feels like the healthier you get by following her suggestions, the less you will want to eat sugar, etc.) but I recognized that alcohol no longer had the calming effect that I'd always enjoyed, and in fact, it had the opposite effect, making me more anxious and depressed, and interrupting my sleep.  It was hard; I felt deprived; I got used to it; now it is easy in most situations.

 

7)  Go to bed at 10 o'clock.  Whoops, it's almost 11.  Best regards to all of you!

 

 

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Thanks to you, tntd and MiYu, for your words of support!  I wanted to get back to you, MiYu, about my tapering; longer post later.  I'm doing a liquid titration with propylene glycol.  I may have said this already, but I was planning to do .001 a day but I just couldn't stand the thought of dragging it out so long; I will see how I go along.  Third day, so far, so good.  It's hard not to feel guilty about feeling better when so many of you are suffering.  My thoughts go out to you today.  Last night I wrote about what has helped me, but I lost the post.  I kept going back and forth to see what different people had said so I could refer to it, and when I returned to what I was writing, it was gone.  I may try to write people individually to avoid that or do quotes, if I can figure it out---just tried, but need to go back and read how to do it.  Any advice welcome!  Best to you all, Flibberty

 

Hi Flibberty ,

I've had that happen too with loosing posts , so annoying . I always make sure to select all and copy of I'm going somewhere else before  I post it .

Hopefully your taper will be smooth !

I don't like the idea of propylene glycol .... Seems like it might be toxic for me .

 

I knwo you can get food grade , how much of tindomyounuse in your solution ?

 

Did you just add a signature ? I think so , thanks for that , always good to knwo where someone has come from and what they've been through .

 

We all have a story don't we.

 

I'm still wondering TNTD , if you see this , what kind of liquid you are using ... Compounded or your own mix?

K is not water soluble , so , some people seem to do alright if they give it a good shake , but I don't want to take any risks .

I did use vodka and water when I crossed from K to V , it seemed ok , but I think I was less sensitive then than I am now . Not sure if I even want to risk a little vodka .

Anyway , getting ahead of myself as I am not there yet . Got some Time  to figure it out . Like you TN , I want to be able to make every tiny reductions when I do start . I can figure it out with as scale , but it's a bit iffy with the measurements, and not as smooth as liquid . K isn't really soluble in vodka either , I guess it helps the suspension though ?

 

Love, MiYu 

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Flibberty, there's a little "quote" square in the top right corner of someone's post that you want to reply to , click on that and it'll take you to a new message box along with the quote

[[fl...]]

Thanks, MiYu (and tntd) for the quote instructions!  I've been taking photos of posts so I can refer to them when I post.  :  )

 

Yes, MiYu, I am leery of the propylene glycol, too, but the milk sticks to the container so much which worries me with such a tiny change in dosage and some people have said that you should leave it in the milk overnight to dissolve---I'm just barely keeping up with making my doses at the moment, so haven't been able to do that.  Also, I am going out of town for ten days and don't want the bother of having to refrigerate.  When I come home, I will rethink the prop gly given what alcohol does to me, not that they're the same, but I may have a sensitivity over time.

[[...]]

Thanks to you, tntd and MiYu, for your words of support!  I wanted to get back to you, MiYu, about my tapering; longer post later.  I'm doing a liquid titration with propylene glycol.  I may have said this already, but I was planning to do .001 a day but I just couldn't stand the thought of dragging it out so long; I will see how I go along.  Third day, so far, so good.  It's hard not to feel guilty about feeling better when so many of you are suffering.  My thoughts go out to you today.  Last night I wrote about what has helped me, but I lost the post.  I kept going back and forth to see what different people had said so I could refer to it, and when I returned to what I was writing, it was gone.  I may try to write people individually to avoid that or do quotes, if I can figure it out---just tried, but need to go back and read how to do it.  Any advice welcome!  Best to you all, Flibberty

 

 

 

Hi Flibberty ,

I've had that happen too with loosing posts , so annoying . I always make sure to select all and copy of I'm going somewhere else before  I post it .

Hopefully your taper will be smooth !

I don't like the idea of propylene glycol .... Seems like it might be toxic for me .

 

I knwo you can get food grade , how much of tindomyounuse in your solution ?

 

Did you just add a signature ? I think so , thanks for that , always good to knwo where someone has come from and what they've been through .

 

We all have a story don't we.

 

I'm still wondering TNTD , if you see this , what kind of liquid you are using ... Compounded or your own mix?

K is not water soluble , so , some people seem to do alright if they give it a good shake , but I don't want to take any risks .

I did use vodka and water when I crossed from K to V , it seemed ok , but I think I was less sensitive then than I am now . Not sure if I even want to risk a little vodka .

Anyway , getting ahead of myself as I am not there yet . Got some Time  to figure it out . Like you TN , I want to be able to make every tiny reductions when I do start . I can figure it out with as scale , but it's a bit iffy with the measurements, and not as smooth as liquid . K isn't really soluble in vodka either , I guess it helps the suspension though ?

 

Love, MiYu 

 

Hi MiYu,

 

I use Cashew milk, I've never liked the flavor of milk.  I dissolve two doses at a time so I only have to prepare it every other day. As to Flibberty's point of the milk sticking to the container I havn't had that problem. I do make sure to rinse the container a couple of times and drink the water I rinse it with just to make sure I get all of the medication.

 

I think that you are doing a slow change of time to your dosages that looks good. You have to do what works for you. I know I look at a lot of stuff that I can't wrap my head around too. As I was posting all of that I was wondering if it would makes sense. I've used it and it barely made sense to me

 

I did that one tiny taper and am feeling worse today but I wrapped the tape on my syringe funky and I have a hard time reading where the marking is for .4mL so I'm going to taper again tonight. I'll see how I feel on Thursday and decide if I'm going to just hold there or not. Part of the issue might just be hormonal and that makes this whole tape thing a lot harder 

 

I hope today is finding you feeling a little better.

 

Hugs 

T

[[...]]

Thanks to you, tntd and MiYu, for your words of support!  I wanted to get back to you, MiYu, about my tapering; longer post later.  I'm doing a liquid titration with propylene glycol.  I may have said this already, but I was planning to do .001 a day but I just couldn't stand the thought of dragging it out so long; I will see how I go along.  Third day, so far, so good.  It's hard not to feel guilty about feeling better when so many of you are suffering.  My thoughts go out to you today.  Last night I wrote about what has helped me, but I lost the post.  I kept going back and forth to see what different people had said so I could refer to it, and when I returned to what I was writing, it was gone.  I may try to write people individually to avoid that or do quotes, if I can figure it out---just tried, but need to go back and read how to do it.  Any advice welcome!  Best to you all, Flibberty

 

 

 

Hi Flibberty ,

I've had that happen too with loosing posts , so annoying . I always make sure to select all and copy of I'm going somewhere else before  I post it .

Hopefully your taper will be smooth !

I don't like the idea of propylene glycol .... Seems like it might be toxic for me .

 

I knwo you can get food grade , how much of tindomyounuse in your solution ?

 

Did you just add a signature ? I think so , thanks for that , always good to knwo where someone has come from and what they've been through .

 

We all have a story don't we.

 

I'm still wondering TNTD , if you see this , what kind of liquid you are using ... Compounded or your own mix?

K is not water soluble , so , some people seem to do alright if they give it a good shake , but I don't want to take any risks .

I did use vodka and water when I crossed from K to V , it seemed ok , but I think I was less sensitive then than I am now . Not sure if I even want to risk a little vodka .

Anyway , getting ahead of myself as I am not there yet . Got some Time  to figure it out . Like you TN , I want to be able to make every tiny reductions when I do start . I can figure it out with as scale , but it's a bit iffy with the measurements, and not as smooth as liquid . K isn't really soluble in vodka either , I guess it helps the suspension though ?

 

Love, MiYu 

 

Hi MiYu,

 

I use Cashew milk, I've never liked the flavor of milk.  I dissolve two doses at a time so I only have to prepare it every other day. As to Flibberty's point of the milk sticking to the container I havn't had that problem. I do make sure to rinse the container a couple of times and drink the water I rinse it with just to make sure I get all of the medication.

 

I think that you are doing a slow change of time to your dosages that looks good. You have to do what works for you. I know I look at a lot of stuff that I can't wrap my head around too. As I was posting all of that I was wondering if it would makes sense. I've used it and it barely made sense to me

 

I did that one tiny taper and am feeling worse today but I wrapped the tape on my syringe funky and I have a hard time reading where the marking is for .4mL so I'm going to taper again tonight. I'll see how I feel on Thursday and decide if I'm going to just hold there or not. Part of the issue might just be hormonal and that makes this whole tape thing a lot harder 

 

I hope today is finding you feeling a little better.

 

Hugs 

T

 

Hi dear T , thank you , I think you may have answered me before about the milk , so I'm sorry if I had you repeat it again ....

I have no doubt hormones make this whole thing a lot harder .

I think it was stres and hormones that got me in this mess in the first place . And doctors who were clueless about what was going on with me.

 

Yesterday was really rough ,im sure with all the changes my brain and nervous system is very confused . This morning I feel a it better , though I woke up with huge cortisol surges twice . The second one I was literally shaking from . I need to look at those links you lasted again .

I get scared that my adrenals won't be able to handle it , but hopefully they will settle down as I get more stable .

 

I'm sorry you're feeling the tiny reduction .....me hope it passes soon a nd you can find some kind of rythym that works for you . It's so frustrating not to feel Ike we are making any progress .

 

Hang in there ,

Love, MiYu 

 

[[...]]

Thanks, MiYu (and tntd) for the quote instructions!  I've been taking photos of posts so I can refer to them when I post.  :  )

 

Yes, MiYu, I am leery of the propylene glycol, too, but the milk sticks to the container so much which worries me with such a tiny change in dosage and some people have said that you should leave it in the milk overnight to dissolve---I'm just barely keeping up with making my doses at the moment, so haven't been able to do that.  Also, I am going out of town for ten days and don't want the bother of having to refrigerate.  When I come home, I will rethink the prop gly given what alcohol does to me, not that they're the same, but I may have a sensitivity over time.

 

Hi flibberty,

I don't knwo that K really dissolves in anything Except solvents, so I think it's more of a suspension that other people are making with milk , or vodka , or even just plain water . I think milk may help the suspension better . I was using hazelnut milk for a while for my Valium , I think it worked ok so I may try it again . Of course that has things like carrageenan and guar gum in it , plus added vitamins , which I also don't like !

I hope your trip goes well and that your taper continues to be easy , or at least manageable .

 

MiYu 

[[...]]

 

Hi DM ,

I was just wondering .... So you make a batch and it keeps for a few days? Do you keep it in the fridge ?

Hope you're doing well .....?

MiYu

 

miYu, yes I make .30 ml at a time which equals 3mg, at first, I made every 3 days, but since I am on a lower dose, its last at least 6 or so. I use the vodka formula, so I do not keep it in the fridge.  I bought the syringes from amazon. I'm about to start using the smaller ones.  This is easier than the cutting and weighing method for me. Much quicker for sure.

 

Thank you DMMS ,

I'm glad you are having a successful taper !

 

Love

MiYu

[[...]]

Fuzzy , thinking if you and sending you love and healing thoughts for your wellbeing , and solutions for you to move forwards .....

How a re you ?

Love, MiYu

[[...]]

Hi ago an T , I was just looking at one if your previous posts , you are using 66 mls fro your total dose ?

So if you take out only one ml , that would be 1.5% all in one go . Or are you dividing that over the month with a 1 ml syringe ? Just wondering as I think if it was me 1.5. % all at once would be too much .

 

MiYu 

[[fl...]]

Dear MiYu and tntd

 

About this whole whole milk thing.  I think I won't be so nervous about the sticking milk thing when I make up a bunch of batches at a time.  It's just this **** tiny taper thing that is rattling me.  I do think with small tapers that doing it weight-wise might be more accurate---if the scale is right (yikes)!  Not so vision-dependent.  One tiny drop from the smallest syringe changes the weight quite a bit.

[Guest [Fu...]]

Wish I had something better to report but I'm hurting bad. I've never felt so bad physically, mentally or emotionally. I just sleep all day because I don't know what else to do.

[[fl...]]

I'm so sorry, Fuzzy!.  I'm thinking of you!

[[fl...]]

Dear tntd,

 

Let me know how your taper goes tonight; I hope it goes better.  And thanks for the tip about the different klonopins.  I will make sure I get the same kind each time.   

[[...]]

Hi ago an T , I was just looking at one if your previous posts , you are using 66 mls fro your total dose ?

So if you take out only one ml , that would be 1.5% all in one go . Or are you dividing that over the month with a 1 ml syringe ? Just wondering as I think if it was me 1.5. % all at once would be too much .

 

MiYu 

 

Hi MiYu,

 

I'm feeling even worse today after doing the second taper. It's amazing that only a total of .0038mg over three days can increase the symptoms so much  :'( I'm going to just stay put here for a few days. I may try to do a tiny taper each week just so I can move forward. At this rate, tapering .0038mg a week I'm looking at about 5 1/2 years to finish my taper. That's better than 14 years but it doesn't include any holds I might incorporate as well, sigh.

 

Anyway, yes I'm using 66mL and adding 1.25 mg of K into it but I only reduce by .1mL which equals only .0019mg of my dose.  I am currently down to 61.5mL, so a reduction of 4.5mL. I started tapering in November of last year and then started holding in February. I think I had tapered about 6% at that point and I was in a really bad place. I've snuck in a .1mL cut three times over the course of the seven months. It never really affected me but this new cut that I just did has. I wonder if it's because it's still so close to the generic c/o. Speaking of which, you are so welcome for that information flibberty. I wish I had known the full extent of the possible cut in a simple generic change. I would have requested my pdoc keep me on what I was taking at the time.

 

MiYu, did you get the link to the spreadsheet that I put in one of my posts? I would be lost without. You can put in all sorts of different scenarios. I'll post it again just in case you didn't see it last time but I'll put it in it's very own post 

 

Fuzzy, I'm so sorry to hear that things are still so rough. At least you can sleep. Sleep is helping your brain and body heal. Are you planning on holding for the time being or are you going to start to taper to see if it helps as you get lower in dose? You are always on my mind. Hang in there. 

 

Hugs and healing to everyone, 

T

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Here is the link to the spreadsheet. I keep saying it's an excel spreadsheet but it's actually a google docs sharable. Just download it to your computer before you make any changes to it

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BOT83q-Avb9NDlIQ-WC5lT8jk_9-RrUDFz1ArGAi51s/edit#gid=0

 

Have fun 

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Thank you TNTD 

I'm sorry you're feeling the cut .... You knwo , I think it's more important to stay as stable as possible , however long it takes . Some of us are just super sensitive and it makes life a living hell if we overdo it.

I am really suffering form this crossover now . Very destabilized . Today is the worst day I've ever had I think . I can feel how I just don't have enough GABA available because of the receptors , and I totally freaked out this morning . I have to stay completely calm and no stress, even moving around can stress me at the moment . I felt a huge wave of symptoms coming on at 2 am last night . I had so many scary symptoms this morning I freaked out .

 

So scary this chemical imbalance . Fortunately a friend walked me through a mindfulness meditation to calm me down . I really felt like I was going to loose my mind .

 

Have you experienced this T?

I also felt so disconnected , like my head was full of nothing and then all these horrible physical sensations .

 

Anyway, thank you so much for everything , the links and fro being here .

 

Try not to worry about the time frame , I know , i do the same thing. But we can only do what we can do . You've made a few cuts , maybe hold a but and see what happens? Hopefully your baseline is better now .

I'm super scared of tapering and how long it will take , but all I know right now is I can't make a move yet. When I look at how long it took me to taper 2 mgs Valium, and that was hell too , I'll be right there with you taking 16 years or something , and that's from my dose !

 

Hang in there , we'll get there one way or another .

Miyu

 

Fuzzy .... I'm so sorry , but it gald you are sleeping , as T says , it's giving your brain healing time . 

 

Hi flibberty .... I'm not sure how accurate the scales are .. It's harder to make smaller cuts that's for sure with it . But you may be fine , I'm using it until I'm ready to taper I guess , then I'll see. 

 

MiYu

[Guest [Fu...]]

I guess I'm holding for now I don't know what else to do. I'm very close to just going to a psych ward even though I've read so many horror stories. I can't go on this way.

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tntd, you have gained weight too? I gained a lot of weight after hitting tolerance on klonopin and since my jump it's not budging. All the other times I quit benzos the weight came off quickly but not this time. I'm trying to find out if there is something to lower cortisol so I can start losing all this weight. Any advice?

 

Hi Red Sky,

 

So nice to hear I'm not the only one gaining weight. I did read that benzo's can slow your metabolism, that didn't make me happy.

 

There are a few things that can help with the cortisol. Following is an excerpt from Surviving Antidepressants thread about morning cortisol surges:

 

I then came across this: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/757599.html

"One of the best known and most effective ways to lower excess cortisol levels is with the nutrient Phosphatidylserine (PS). Phosphatidylserine is believed to facilitate the repair of the cortisol receptors in the hypothalamus. It is believed that the cortisol receptors get damaged by high cortisol levels reducing the ability of the hypothalamus to sense and correct high cortisone levels. Because Phosphatidylserine helps repair the feedback control apparatus, it is useful in correcting both high and low cortisol levels. Phosphatidylserine is also useful for preventing short-term memory loss, age-related dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Typical dosages are one to three 100 mg. capsules per day."

 

I'm trying to find more scientific evidence. So far:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18662395

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11842886

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15512856

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1325348

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2170852

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16118575

 

Most of the studies have to do with exercise, but perhaps this could help some of us who are suffering from morning anxiety?

 

Vitamin C in controlled-release tablets or fresh fruit

 

- Baby aspirin (be sure to take with food)

 

- Vitamin B12 (good for some, not for others)

 

- DHEA (for older women only, see topic on DHEA)

 

- Magnesium -- I would put a little magnesium citrate powder in ice water and sip it when I had a surge of anxiety. Magnesium is "nature's calcium channel blocker." Some people find taking capsules or tablets of magnesium helps the anxiety and aids relaxation. If you take too much magnesium at one time, however, you will get stomach cramps and diarrhea, so start off with a very low amount. I found I could take only 50mg-75mg at a time. Mag citrate is one of the best absorbed and easier on the gut. See this magnesium factsheet.

 

According to the article below, magnesium reduces release of ACTH and the reaction of the adrenals to ACTH.

 

ACTH is the pituitary hormone that signals the adrenals to produce cortisol (see http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/zm2408.asp). Cortisol is the "fight or flight" stress hormone that causes those discontinuation waves of anxiety/despair.

 

From my experience, I recommend small divided doses (or extended release) of magnesium citrate (absorbed well and does not have the diarrhea side effect) throughout the day to combat those cortisol-driven waves of anxiety/despair. I put magnesium citrate in water to sip. A largish dose of magnesium may aid sleep. From what I've read, a maximum of 600mg total magnesium citrate per day is okay.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/33-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes/

 

One of the things that I found really helped was putting black out shades in my bedroom. I started with a sleep mask though and that helped a lot too.

 

I have found some of these things helpful though I still have morning anxiety it varies from day to day now instead of being early and intense. If you do decide to try anything start low and go slow. That's the SA mantra for trying new supplements, etc.

 

Hope you find something here helpful.

 

I wish I could find something to help with the weight gain 

 

Hugs and Healing,

T

 

Thank you so very much for this detailed response! Sorry for the late reply, I must have accidentally turned off notifications for the thread. I was under the impression the cortisol issue contributed to the weight gain. Sad to hear you still haven't found anything helpful for that. No matter what I do it's just not budging. Hugs and healing to you too!