The Klonopin Klub#2

[[Kg...]]

Miyu:  If it were me and it was, I wouldn't do a wait and see I would go on the higher dose the .40 or even up to .5 mg of the K  - hold there and then cut. Sometimes you have to go up to go down.  What I found is that the added in part is easy to taper from - that is you can go down very quickly to the dose your body is used to, which in your case appears to be the .375.  So the added K is just to make you feel good for a bit - and give your body a well needed break from how awful you have felt. 

 

I will say that for most of us who successfully tapered K we did a steady rate off - for some reason this seems to work better on K but not for many people on Valium.  The lower we got the better we felt.  I do think the benzos all act differently on us and for me like you Valium was a horrible drug.

 

Again good luck and I hope the cross over back to K makes you feel better. 

[[Wo...]]

Hi kgirl, I'm currently using a gram scale and am going down roughly 10% per week and holding longer if I need to. I've noticed my scale being really temperamental and fluctuating a lot. I will weight a few times to try to get the most accurate reading I can but of course there's no way to know if it's reading correctly. I'm just going for it and trying not to worry about accuracy too much to avoid the stress. Any suggestions on how to just keep the faith the scale is working? Congratulations using it all the way down that's really hopeful.

[[Kg...]]

Wonderwoman: What I did is I used one pill as a control all the way down.  I weighed it - and noted the weight- each time I cut my pills I weighed this pill - if it was w/in .001 grams I just cut my pills. If not I then 'tared' the scale until the weight was w/in this.  I then put the cut pills in my daily pill box and did not give it a thought until the next time I cut the pills.  I usually cut one week of pills at a time.

 

To be frank I don't think we have to be that precise - you are only cutting a small amt and so the day to day fluctuations probably don't amt to much.  I think that worrying about the exact weight is more of an issue for some than others.  If you can't abide by knowing about weight fluctuations of your pills have someone else cut them for you. 

[[2t...]]

Hi kgirl, I'm currently using a gram scale and am going down roughly 10% per week and holding longer if I need to. I've noticed my scale being really temperamental and fluctuating a lot. I will weight a few times to try to get the most accurate reading I can but of course there's no way to know if it's reading correctly. I'm just going for it and trying not to worry about accuracy too much to avoid the stress. Any suggestions on how to just keep the faith the scale is working? Congratulations using it all the way down that's really hopeful.

 

I had the same worries and inaccuracy when cutting pills and using a scale on the lower half of my taper so found a compounding pharmacy that made the pills to the exact dose I needed.

I would hold for 14 days give or take a day or so at each cut, so had 21 pills made as a safety.

 

2trusting

 

 

[[...]]

tntd, you have gained weight too? I gained a lot of weight after hitting tolerance on klonopin and since my jump it's not budging. All the other times I quit benzos the weight came off quickly but not this time. I'm trying to find out if there is something to lower cortisol so I can start losing all this weight. Any advice?

 

Hi Red Sky,

 

So nice to hear I'm not the only one gaining weight. I did read that benzo's can slow your metabolism, that didn't make me happy.

 

There are a few things that can help with the cortisol. Following is an excerpt from Surviving Antidepressants thread about morning cortisol surges:

 

I then came across this: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/757599.html

"One of the best known and most effective ways to lower excess cortisol levels is with the nutrient Phosphatidylserine (PS). Phosphatidylserine is believed to facilitate the repair of the cortisol receptors in the hypothalamus. It is believed that the cortisol receptors get damaged by high cortisol levels reducing the ability of the hypothalamus to sense and correct high cortisone levels. Because Phosphatidylserine helps repair the feedback control apparatus, it is useful in correcting both high and low cortisol levels. Phosphatidylserine is also useful for preventing short-term memory loss, age-related dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Typical dosages are one to three 100 mg. capsules per day."

 

I'm trying to find more scientific evidence. So far:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18662395

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11842886

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15512856

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1325348

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2170852

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16118575

 

Most of the studies have to do with exercise, but perhaps this could help some of us who are suffering from morning anxiety?

 

Vitamin C in controlled-release tablets or fresh fruit

 

- Baby aspirin (be sure to take with food)

 

- Vitamin B12 (good for some, not for others)

 

- DHEA (for older women only, see topic on DHEA)

 

- Magnesium -- I would put a little magnesium citrate powder in ice water and sip it when I had a surge of anxiety. Magnesium is "nature's calcium channel blocker." Some people find taking capsules or tablets of magnesium helps the anxiety and aids relaxation. If you take too much magnesium at one time, however, you will get stomach cramps and diarrhea, so start off with a very low amount. I found I could take only 50mg-75mg at a time. Mag citrate is one of the best absorbed and easier on the gut. See this magnesium factsheet.

 

According to the article below, magnesium reduces release of ACTH and the reaction of the adrenals to ACTH.

 

ACTH is the pituitary hormone that signals the adrenals to produce cortisol (see http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/zm2408.asp). Cortisol is the "fight or flight" stress hormone that causes those discontinuation waves of anxiety/despair.

 

From my experience, I recommend small divided doses (or extended release) of magnesium citrate (absorbed well and does not have the diarrhea side effect) throughout the day to combat those cortisol-driven waves of anxiety/despair. I put magnesium citrate in water to sip. A largish dose of magnesium may aid sleep. From what I've read, a maximum of 600mg total magnesium citrate per day is okay.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/33-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes/

 

One of the things that I found really helped was putting black out shades in my bedroom. I started with a sleep mask though and that helped a lot too.

 

I have found some of these things helpful though I still have morning anxiety it varies from day to day now instead of being early and intense. If you do decide to try anything start low and go slow. That's the SA mantra for trying new supplements, etc.

 

Hope you find something here helpful.

 

I wish I could find something to help with the weight gain 

 

Hugs and Healing,

T

[[...]]

Hi Wonderwoman,

 

Here is the chart I shared with the Long Hold Support Group.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDnteV3AFkQ_i0abgnHG7hlnaYs95mHRu8zy76S-Xh8/edit

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

Hugs,

T

[[...]]

Hi group,

 

I was doing horribly emotionally and physically until the last two weeks. For reasons I don't understand, my symptoms started to lessen and I became a somewhat functional being again. I am not working right now, but there are days lately, I almost feel I could. I know this is all unpredictable. That makes it so hard and anxiety provoking, at times. Trying to accept and have patience. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done.

 

Hi Newgirl,

 

I'm so glad to hear that you are feeling a little better. I hope that you continue to feel better and better.

 

Are you still tapering or are you holding?

 

Hugs,

T

[[...]]

Hi everyone ,

I haven't been here before , but I'm about to cross back to klonopin after a year of hell trying to taper Valium , which for some reason has been nearly impossible for me .

I feel so sick on Valium at this point that I need to try something different . Doc is onboard with the crossover .

 

Hoping to get some support here .... Scared but hopeful that I might find some stability with the K that I haven't found with the V .

 

I'd love to hear from anyone who has been back and forth with these two benzos and who might have had a hard time with Valium . My cross from K to V was the worst .... Absolute hell , even  with an up dose of the V  equivelant , so I don't think I ever really settled on it , and trying to taper it has been crazy diifcult .

 

I will be holding for a bit before trying any cuts , but will check in to get to know you all in th K club ,

 

Love, MiYu

Ps anyone have any advice on how to cross ? Should I do it in steps ? Hard to know with valium a long half life if I'll get hit with WDs somewhere down the line ...

 

Hi MiYu,

 

It's so good to see you here. I really hope that a switch to K helps you feel better. I know how hard things have been for you for so long now. I'm so glad that Kgirl happened to stop by. She's great with her information and experience.

 

Big Hugs and good luck with your c/o. I hope it makes a world of difference for you.

T

[[...]]

Hi everyone ,

I haven't been here before , but I'm about to cross back to klonopin after a year of hell trying to taper Valium , which for some reason has been nearly impossible for me .

I feel so sick on Valium at this point that I need to try something different . Doc is onboard with the crossover .

 

Hoping to get some support here .... Scared but hopeful that I might find some stability with the K that I haven't found with the V .

 

I'd love to hear from anyone who has been back and forth with these two benzos and who might have had a hard time with Valium . My cross from K to V was the worst .... Absolute hell , even  with an up dose of the V  equivelant , so I don't think I ever really settled on it , and trying to taper it has been crazy diifcult .

 

I will be holding for a bit before trying any cuts , but will check in to get to know you all in th K club ,

 

Love, MiYu

Ps anyone have any advice on how to cross ? Should I do it in steps ? Hard to know with valium a long half life if I'll get hit with WDs somewhere down the line ...

 

Hi MiYu,

 

It's so good to see you here. I really hope that a switch to K helps you feel better. I know how hard things have been for you for so long now. I'm so glad that Kgirl happened to stop by. She's great with her information and experience.

 

Big Hugs and good luck with your c/o. I hope it makes a world of difference for you.

T

 

Thanks T , it's been a rough week but I'm starting to feel a little better . Something went really wrong with the V .

I have the shakes and I think my nervous sytem is really upset . Thanks for the cortisol post , I've been waking up with surges too , feels awful . I think I'll try the phosphatydylserine .. I have some .

I feel like the cortisol/ adrenaline 'burns 'my nerves too. Irritates them or something .

 

I wanted to ask you about holding and tolerance . Have you ever been tolerant to K ? I know you've done holds, and updosed too? How are you doing now and are you cutting again yet?

 

I hope you're feeling well anyway .... Let me know how you are .

MiYu 

Ps I've made the cross and am on .40 K need to change my sig.

My body is definitely much happier on K 

 

[[...]]

HI all , I'm just wondering how many 'regulars' there are in this group? There must be lots of BBs on klonopin ? I know a new group was started as the old one got too big in pages .....( I already know tNTD and Kgirl)

 

Anyway , hoping there's a few regular buddies here for support .

 

I just made a switch back to K after a year trying to taper Valium and having a horrible time on it.

 

My doc told me to do a direct switch which I did , and on Kgirls advice ( thank you Kgirl ) , a small updose to .40 mgs . ( I had switche d a year ago form .375 k to 10 mgs V )

 

Well I'm feeling  better on the K , the V was so awful for me ! But , I am having some really intense periods of WD Symptoms .....

Waves that come and go , and overall I feel pretty crappy , but at least not toxic from  the V . I feel quite beaten up by this whoLe process !

 

I have some concerns about the direct one day cross , though I feelin was neccesary in my case as I was getting very sick on V , I could barely stand to take one more pill . As V build up in your  system with multiple dosing , like X 5-7 .... That's huge amount of metabolites that have to leave over a couple of months I would think .

I'm a bit concerned about

1. Worsening waves as that happens , already so intense

2. That .40 mgs k can't possibly cover all that build up of V and I'm headed for big trouble .

 

I can't find anyone who was on V as long as me before they crossed back .

Any words of wisdom or thoughts would be most welcome .

 

Thank you!

MiYu 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Hi MiYu,

 

I glad you're feeling a little better on the K. I'm wondering if your updose will help you deal with the V metabolites as they get out of your system. I hope once they are gone you feel a lot better.

 

I have not had any problems with tolerance on the K. I've currently been holding for six months. I was going to start tapering again this week but then Hurricane Irma hit Florida and we have a lot of family there so that was stressful and now my husband is going to be going to New Orleans and that is even more stress. I went into a short wave but I'm starting to feel better again. I don't know if you remember but I went into really bad withdrawl when they changed my generic meds from one company to another so I had to wait to taper because of that too. Before that I was feeling the best I had in many months. I do have another issue that makes it really hard for me to taper. I had to CT from an AD because of a severe adverse reaction. I think the CT and the adverse reaction both really messed with my CNS so I have to be extra careful and taper turtle slow. I know you know all about that!

 

I'm glad you found the cortisol information helpful. I have used a number of the suggestions and though I still do get cortisol surges some mornings they are way down from what they were when I CT'd a little over a year ago.

 

I am feeling well today. I'm hoping I will still be feeling well tomorrow 

 

I really hope that this c/o is the help that you needed to be able to move forward in your taper once you have stabilized. It's good to see you here and I hope that we will have more people become active on this board. There used to be a lot more activity than there is currently but maybe we can get it going again 

 

Big Hugs and healing energy for you  :smitten:  :hug:

T

[[do...]]

I'm on K unfortunately. But I'm chipping away at it. Last week I had heart palpitations, and last couple days, they are gone. Muscle aches and tight head feelings this week.

[[...]]

I'm on K unfortunately. But I'm chipping away at it. Last week I had heart palpitations, and last couple days, they are gone. Muscle aches and tight head feelings this week.

 

Glad to meet you Dmms .......

You seem to be chipping away quite well .... Are you able to stay functional at that pace ?

I don't think I could !

 

As TNTD said , I hope we get some more people on this board , I'm sure  they're out there.

MiYu

[[...]]

Hi MiYu,

 

I glad you're feeling a little better on the K. I'm wondering if your updose will help you deal with the V metabolites as they get out of your system. I hope once they are gone you feel a lot better.

 

I have not had any problems with tolerance on the K. I've currently been holding for six months. I was going to start tapering again this week but then Hurricane Irma hit Florida and we have a lot of family there so that was stressful and now my husband is going to be going to New Orleans and that is even more stress. I went into a short wave but I'm starting to feel better again. I don't know if you remember but I went into really bad withdrawl when they changed my generic meds from one company to another so I had to wait to taper because of that too. Before that I was feeling the best I had in many months. I do have another issue that makes it really hard for me to taper. I had to CT from an AD because of a severe adverse reaction. I think the CT and the adverse reaction both really messed with my CNS so I have to be extra careful and taper turtle slow. I know you know all about that!

 

I'm glad you found the cortisol information helpful. I have used a number of the suggestions and though I still do get cortisol surges some mornings they are way down from what they were when I CT'd a little over a year ago.

 

I am feeling well today. I'm hoping I will still be feeling well tomorrow 

 

I really hope that this c/o is the help that you needed to be able to move forward in your taper once you have stabilized. It's good to see you here and I hope that we will have more people become active on this board. There used to be a lot more activity than there is currently but maybe we can get it going again 

 

Big Hugs and healing energy for you  :smitten:  :hug:

T

 

Thanks TNTD , I'm glad you're here too 

It's encouraging that you haven't gotten tolerant , that scares me , tho we re all so different .

I'm afraid with all the chopping and chnging I've done that I won't stabilize , we'll see . I sure hope so .its been a rough couple,of years .

 

I'd love to get out more , and haven't been able to I. So long .

Yes ,i remember the trouble you had with the generic , I'm sorry . But I'm glad your stable again . I'm  Sorry about your other stressors too and I hope your family is safe .

 

Let's stay in touch , I'll keep posting as I go . love, MiYu  :smitten:

[[do...]]

MiYu, pretty functional. Haven't missed a day of work yet.  Good days, bad days.  I've been staying at reducing .01 mg a day. I've messed up a couple times and lowered .02, trying not to do that again.  I have a log, and a diary notebook.  I feel I have more " better" days now, than I have in the past several years, trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Once I discovered I was in tolerance, I knew, that getting off this would eventually feel better.

[[bb...]]

Hey MiYu! I'm a Klonopin taperer too! This is my third time on Klonopin so I am taking it super slow in coming off this time. It does get much harder each time. I have been on and off 3 or 4 times in the last 10 years. I'm reducing about 5% every 2 weeks. The lower I get the better I feel. It was terribly toxic to me on the full dose I was on. I wish you success in your cross! We are all here for each other! Good to meet you!

[[fl...]]

Well, even though this is not a club I would've ever chosen to join, (could somebody please help me with getting the emoji instead of the word when I click on the emojis?  ), I am so happy to be among such wonderful, supportive people!  And it's great to be with people who are also on k and in the same general vicinity of dosages as me as well as those who have been through it and are off; I feel like I am home.  It will take me a little while to sort out who's who, so I hope you will bear with me.

 

As some of you already know, I am beginning to resume my taper of k.  I began tapering from 35 mg of nortriptyline and 1 mg of k  simultaneously 2 1/2 years ago.  My only symptom until the end was extreme morning anxiety, and now I wish I had plowed on, given the hell I went through then, and the lesser hell of now, when I jumped from the nortriptyline a year ago.  Hindsight is a beautiful thing!  Being realistic, though, I think I would've tapered way too quickly from the k and it may have all ended up the same as it is now.  The thing that got me moving again with the k was finally realizing that I was in tolerance mode, and, as you all know, I was going to have to get worse to get better.  I didn't realize, though I am scared, how relieved I would feel when I made the decision to resume my taper.  And now, with you all by my side, I feel even better.  So, in a couple of days, maybe today!, my scale will come...the very best to you all!  I look forward to sharing your journeys.

[[...]]

Hi Miyu,

 

I have to admit the fear of tolerance is always in the background. I had to hold though as with the CT from the AD any tapering I did put me in the weeds and I was completely non-functional. So far so good 

 

I was housebound for a year before I did my hold. It was amazing when I started getting windows. I remember at one point while I was holding and still feeling bad but not quite as bad I actually felt afraid of getting better. It was just the w/d's lying to me though because as soon as I went into a window I got out of the house. It was amazing.

 

I really hope that this c/o will go well for you and that you will stabilize before too long. I know everyone is different but once I stopped tapering it took three and a half months for me to get any windows. It's all a matter of time.

 

I'm reading a book called The Miracle Mindset by JJ Virgin. It's about how she dealt with her son being the victim of a hit and run accident. He had a serious brain injury. I know our injuries are different but they also said it takes time for the brain to heal and the timeline is different for everyone. I've been amazed at how many similarities I've found in his recovery and in ours.

 

You are so strong MiYu. I've been amazed at how you keep hanging in there.  :smitten: :hug:

T

[[...]]

Hi Bballmom, It's so good to see you and hear that you are starting to feel better as you taper. I've heard that a lot with K. I've heard just the opposite with V. Interesting..... I'm glad you have a good taper rate going too and that you've found what works for you.

 

Hello dmms, Dogs make me smile too I'm glad you have been able to go at a faster rate and that you have been able to slow down when you need to. It sounds like you are doing great though any w/d sxs are not fun. Hopefully the lower you get the less you will have!!

 

Hi flibberty, welcome to the club none of us ever wanted to be a part of  I hope your taper goes well. I definitely know what you mean about being scared and relieved to taper at the same time.

 

I'm hoping to be able to do a small taper this Sunday. I'll have to see how I'm feeling first. I'm doing a symptoms based taper but everytime I get started something happens to make me have to stop. Hopefully everything is all set now and I'll be able to do a tiny taper and get away with it 

 

Hugs and healing, :hug:

T

[[fl...]]

Thanks, tntd!  Good luck with your Sunday taper.

 

I got a package yesterday, thought it was my scale, but it was a fluffy new, all-cotton mattress pad.  That will help, too!  I moved out of the conjugal bed for the duration and into my own little cocoon of a room.  I wouldn't have thought to do it, but my husband got a cold and was hacking away all night.  i can't believe what a difference it makes not to have someone coughing, getting up to go to the bathroom, cats walking in and out, etc.  I feel so grateful to have a quiet space to call my own where I can sleep, or not.

 

Best wishes for a good day to all!

[[...]]

Hey flibberty that's awesome that you have the option to do that. That mattress pad sounds really nice Our son is away in the Air Force right now so we use his room if either my husband or I have an illness. Since our room has the blackout shades and the white noise machine my hubby is the one that moves into the other room. I do have trouble sleeping when he's not there though so I'm not very fond of it. I know lots of people that it works magic for though. Good Luck and enjoy your time to yourself.

 

:hug:

T

[[DM...]]

Hello!

 

I'm new to the forum and to the thread. I've read through it a bit, thought I'd introduce myself and talk a little bit about my experience so far. I have Bipolar 2. I've been through therapy for it and I was medicated; everything was great. Then, I started having panic attacks. One medication, Celexa, apparently has this as a side effect after long-term use (and it also occurs in males ages 25 - 35 ish, of which age group I am a part of). I was put on Ativan, as needed, by my primary care doc. When I went to see my psychiatrist, he upped it to 1 mg x3 a day. We then went on a long, magical search for the right pill to help level out my bipolar 2. This experience took me out of the University I was attending (want to be a doc, ironically - eye doc), made it so I could not work, and after a year, made it so that I couldn't leave the house. I went from a U.S. Military Vet, Ophthalmic Surgical Assistant, and pre-med student to a dude who sits on his duff all day, never knowing what will happen at what time.

 

Fast forward a year later. My stomach decided to pitch into the fun, and I experienced intense reflux. It turns out that your brain and your gut are very much connected! Who knew. So, two things occurred: 1) a feedback loop where my anxiety would cause crazy, nasty reflux, 2) my stomach would become so irritated, that it would trigger my vegas nerve, causing a drop in blood pressure (in spite of a normal to high resting heart rate) - I would faint. Interestingly enough, I haven't had a panic attack for a long time - just these issues with fainting, thank you stomach. My gastro PA was fantastic, put it together right away. I take omeprazole, nortriptyline, and the occasional tums to battle all of that good stuff.

 

I switched mental health providers once I got tired of doing the medication shuffle for a year (and the new doc got the medication right on the first try for bipolar, amazing gal). Now that I am, for the most part, leveled out bipolar wise, I was switched from Ativan to Klonopin by my old psych doc right before I was the new one. This switch was abrupt. I was supposed to take two .5 mg tabs a day, but at that point, I said enough is enough. I limited myself at .5 + 1/4 (or 1/2 if necessary). This is why: my wife and I realized that I've not had a panic attack in a long time. My biggest issue now is the anxiety that causes the reflux (which causes the pass-out episodes). Solution: Propranolol 10mg twice a day (or less) for anxiety.

 

It works. Propranolol lowers my heart rate, stops the sweating in public, lessens the fear of compact spaces with too many people; long story short, it relaxes me, and it does not have the nasty side effect of tolerance. Now, the only thing in my way is the reflux and the Klonopin. The hard part is that when I reduce my Klonopin, an increase in anxiety occurs, and this effects my stomach which then, after a time, triggers my vagus nerve. I experienced this after the switch from Ativan to Klonopin. After a while, it stabilized, and I was 'okay'.

 

I have read about side effects and withdrawl symptoms related to klonopin. I know everyone is different. I use a little bit of my Air Force training and just suck it up - frankly, they put me through worse than this withdrawl stuff. I focus outside of my own body whenever I notice I become hypersensitive to the way I feel. Otherwise, I ignore it. As a cadre of mine used to say, 'it's mind over matter: if you don't mind, it doesn't matter'. I literally tell myself to suck it up multiple times a day, haha. I take propranolol. The only thing that really gets at me is the gastro issues - the reflux that causes fainting, and the constipation/diarrhea.

 

So, upon seeing the new doc (just over a month), I've gone from .5 and 1/4th down to 3/4's of a .5 klonopin tablet a day. I see on the Ashton Chart that you can taper off the 'k' in six weeks, going onto another medication. I don't think I can go that fast to a 0 dosage, but I can do 1/4 every two weeks. Eventually my body (stomach, the biggest issue) gets used to it. Then I go down again. I expect to be off the medication in six weeks, leaving some wiggle room.

 

No insomnia (thanks to that nortriptyline!) and no rapid heartbeat or super-anxiety spells (thanks to propranolol). Sweating, shaking hands, tingling, nausea, decreased appetite, muscle soreness - all there. But it's whatever. 

 

What has helped me:

1) Focus outside of the body, instead of within. Know that whatever your body 'feels' is, for the most part, a lie (haha). Wake up and say, no, I'm not going to die today, and remember that feelings are just feelings. They are not facts. These feelings are informed by past trauma and a fear of the future - neither of those things exist in the present.

2) Do not obsess about dosage. I have heard, through my provider, that people actually split pills with a pill cutter and weigh their doses and stuff like that. For me, obsessing over the pills is the same as hypersensitivity of the body. Focusing on either causes more stress than it relieves. I tried to go down by less than 1/4th, but ended up just going down the whole 1/4th. It's easier to pop the pill and forget about it and deal with the consequences. Besides, I have better things to do, like make sure my cat doesn't rip up my wife's shoes while she's gone. 

3) Doing something constructive - I play a computer game that is complex (for a game) and requires attention. Attention away from the body, there-again. But other stuff, too - working out, cooking, cleaning, writing, reading, playing music - basically, anything that engages my mind. TV is the enemy. The mind is not active. It is being entertained. It will drift back to your own problems. But, if TV is a must, I shy away from the anxiety-causing shows. I LOVE the horror genre, but that causes stress. I stopped watching and reading it, for now.

4) No booze, no caffeine, no mind-altering substances. It's puritanical, maybe, but for me, my 'lifestyle' is not more important than my ability to function without this stupid medication. I will enjoy a beer again, one day, but not today. Not until I'm off this junk. I've heard moderation is key, but for me, all things mentioned set my progress back. My view: if I can't control the intake of things like alcohol and caffeine, how can I expect to control a taper? It's an exercise of discipline. 

5) Know the difference between physical dependence, psychological dependence, and addiction. According to my therapist, I am physically dependent. I'm not addicted; I don't look forward to taking a dose of the medication and I don't want to stay on it. I don't want to sit on the couch and pop a pill and watch Netflix, lol. I don't make it mentally harder on myself than it has to be while trying to get off it (psychologically dependent), and though I do take the pills with me when I go out (wife insists I do), I know I won't need them. If I do end up needing them (almost passed out in Walmart the other day, thanks to reflux - Klonopin reduces the vegus nerve reaction), that sucks. My body simply needs the chemicals at the moment, so I can't throw in the towel cold turkey unless I want to be as cold as a turkey in the ER. Understanding where I am and being honest about it is a huge help.

6) Mindset. I attack the day as best I can. I don't think 'ah, this is happening to me', instead I think 'I'm doing this about it'. It's sort of like playing the victim of circumstance versus making the best out of what you have. I have to have hope and optimism and a touch of tenacity, because otherwise I'm throwing a pity party at a larger party that I'm already attending, which is the party of withdrawl. It's ... how do you say it? It's like fighting against yourself, I guess. Can't do it.

7) I've heard religion helps - I'm an atheist, so that's non-issue for me. However, I have learned that meditation, or something like it, is helpful. There is a course, the science of meditation, on The Great Courses website that talks about it, and a course there also offers a how-to guide. Kind of expensive, but interesting. I got those, then bought a book on it. Some of it is so-so, but some of it does help. They say that meditation stimulates the same centers of the brain that deep, intense prayer does to those with that belief. I don't know about that. I do know that some simple meditation techniques help.

Therapy. I go to a therapist. Talk therapy helps. I also find new tools to combat whatever non-sense I'm going through, etc. Very useful.

 

And that's about all I have, besides telling myself that I've been through much worse. Hopefully I will find some friends here who have experience with all this. Hopefully I gave some people some things to think about, and who knows, maybe I even stirred the pot a little bit - infinite diversity in infinite combinations.  How am I doing so far? Any advice?

[[do...]]

Sounds like you have a good plan DMW, and  great outlook on things. I think we can all learn  from your valuable tips. Thank you for such details. !

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Hi everyone , sorry I've been off the map for a few days . I'm so glad we have a few more buddies joining th Klub none of us want to be a part of ! 

 

I made an error in my crossover calculation from V to K , and needed up with really bad WDs . It was only equal to a 1/2 mg V cut ,mnutnenogh to send me into a real spin .

 

I'm back on track with the dose equivalent . Not feeling much better , a little , but not much . Seems like I have about 2 hours in the morning , after I can drag myself out of bed , where I feel so so , and then it gets really rough .

Im dosing 3 X day , and I notice I do get inter dose anxiety . I dose 8 hours apart .

 

I've been feeling pretty scared that this cross will backfire, that I'll get tolerant , all the usual ,and  that I'll have a horrible taper forever !

 

Anyway , I'm so glad you're all here for support , we need each other !

I need you all I know that .

 

I'm feeling pretty weird on the k rigth now , not good at all . Like I have a film over my eyes, headache, burning pain ( had that with the V too) , chemical anxiety feeling seems worse with K , poor sleep ( was better with V ) , tremors , , concrete feeling in my head .

 

I sure hope I can stabilize , it's only been 8 days and I had that dose snafu too. I'm really in need of a break and I don't know if I should hold a while before i try tapering. I think so. If I get tolerant I'll just have to bite the bullet . I've been all over the place with benzos these last two years , mostly all unbeknownst to me that I was suffering from benzo issues .

 

Valium really turned bad for me , so I'm really praying this cross will help me on my way off .

 

Hope everyone's doing ok , and again , I'm really glad you're all here ! Might take a while fro the benzo brain to get familiar with you all ..

 

 

MiYu 

 

 

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DMW , thanks for your intro .....

I will have to revisit as its long for my brain ! One thing .... Can you write a signature for us ? That'd be great .

MiYu