Rant : What about not scaring everybody with our own singular experience ?

[[Fl...]]

First of all, I’ve yet to see any one “truth” being posted on BB where everyone is told this is how they will suffer or how long they will suffer for. No one knows the answers to those questions, so how can there be one “truth” being posted. I suppose if you are going to read the protracted withdrawal section you might be lead to believe that is standard for everyone, but there are a lot of other sections to BB where you can read a larger variety of experiences.

 

I totally get that some people are fragile, especially early on, but as you pointed out there are many boards and many threads on BB that are not based on worst case scenarios, and at some point we have to remind ourselves that we are all adults here and it is as important to freely exchange information about this condition as it is to avoid upsetting people.

 

Where is the line? I mean, some might say that any mention of horrible or protracted symptoms could be upsetting to some, and I am sure it is. But what is the cost of stifling information? What if someone claimed that all of this is too upsetting so we shouldn't talk about it at all and the benzo support community should cease to exist? Then where would everyone be?

 

My point is that everyone needs to be mindful that there is a price for some people from seeking support just because it might upset others.

 

 

[[Sh...]]

The insinuation that the "horror stories" must have something else wrong with them other than protracted withdrawal isn't exactly the "positivity" that we're looking for on BB.  It would be quite convenient to conclude this, but it isn't the case for everyone...please keep in mind that those of us (I am living this, 24 hours a day for three years, with my bedridden partner) who are, indeed, "horror stories" are the very reason that benzo use is like Russian roulette.  There are many, many lucky ones, but those who get the bullet shouldn't written off as simply exceptional cases that must have other "problems." 

 

I don't believe anyone on here is going to feel better about their own situation by dismissing others in this way... 

 

Cali,

 

I think one of the reasons is that the majority of people of here have been on moderate doses. Your boyfriend has been on a MASSIVE dose of 40mg valium for 17 years. So his symptoms are going to be a lot worse and carry on for a long time afterwards. I think people have trouble relating to that and when they hear about some of the ongoing issues people face, it puts them off.

[[Fl...]]

Cali,

 

I think one of the reasons is that the majority of people of here have been on moderate doses. Your boyfriend has been on a MASSIVE dose of 40mg valium for 17 years. So his symptoms are going to be a lot worse and carry on for a long time afterwards. I think people have trouble relating to that and when they hear about some of the ongoing issues people face, it puts them off.

 

This is not necessarily true. Dosage and length of time on the drug is only loosely correlated with intensity and duration of symptoms. There are plenty of people who were only on a small dose for a relatively short time who have a difficult withdrawal and there are plenty who were on larger doses for longer periods of time who don't have anywhere near the issues that some of the more severe cases have.

[[Di...]]

Cali,

 

I think one of the reasons is that the majority of people of here have been on moderate doses. Your boyfriend has been on a MASSIVE dose of 40mg valium for 17 years. So his symptoms are going to be a lot worse and carry on for a long time afterwards. I think people have trouble relating to that and when they hear about some of the ongoing issues people face, it puts them off.

 

This is not necessarily true. Dosage and length of time on the drug is only loosely correlated with intensity and duration of symptoms. There are plenty of people who were only on a small dose for a relatively short time who have a difficult withdrawal and there are plenty who were on larger doses for longer periods of time who don't have anywhere near the issues that some of the more severe cases have.

 

I totally agree with this. It all comes down to the individual's sensitivity to the benzo. I was on a relatively low dose of 5mg V for a total of about 10 months before I started tapering. Yet I will hold my taper up as being as difficult, or more so, than others who have been on higher doses for longer.

 

Other factors also need to be taken into account, eg hormones. I had to contend with not only a benzo withdrawal but also menopause, and that is NOT a fun combination, trust me.

 

There is also numerous people on BB who were only on their benzo for a matter of weeks, literally, but had to do incredibly slow tapers to get off. It's all very individual. There is no "one size fits all" with benzos.

[[ca...]]

Cali,

 

I think one of the reasons is that the majority of people of here have been on moderate doses. Your boyfriend has been on a MASSIVE dose of 40mg valium for 17 years. So his symptoms are going to be a lot worse and carry on for a long time afterwards. I think people have trouble relating to that and when they hear about some of the ongoing issues people face, it puts them off.

 

This is not necessarily true. Dosage and length of time on the drug is only loosely correlated with intensity and duration of symptoms. There are plenty of people who were only on a small dose for a relatively short time who have a difficult withdrawal and there are plenty who were on larger doses for longer periods of time who don't have anywhere near the issues that some of the more severe cases have.

 

Unfortunately, this inconsistency is the case...I've read a number of fairly recent success stories that, objectively, were far "messier," much larger doses and much longer than my partner's history.  And at least one of them had almost completely healed during his taper and the others had healed within a year or so!  If we only saw stories like this, it would feel like an incredibly hopeless situation for those who aren't out of the woods...thankfully, there are lots of "scary" stories with happy endings. 

 

It is hard to read the bad stuff, especially when starting this process...but the support here is meant to help us process this information.  If we start sheltering people from information that might scare them...what if it's the same information that they will need to keep going in the face of terrible pain?   

[[ly...]]

 

I wasn't going to stick my head up again, but my words have been distorted over and over.

 

My post on "positivity" merely asked people who are doing well to please post.  Nothing about anyone not posting or editing/refraining.  The fact that "good" posts may be upsetting to protracted sufferers is just another side of the same coin being discussed here.  I, for one, would like to hear the good as well as the bad.  I already think twice about posting "good" taper experience.  Now we hear that people still in taper or short-term users don't have the requisite experience to comment.  This, I can only assume, is due to the "truth" that things get much worse as taper draws lower and that protracted hell has yet to hit them.

 

Isn't the journey much a part of this process?

 

One of the above comments/truths comes from an individual who has posted, as fact - with no qualifiers whatsoever - that no healing occurs for 2 yrs post taper.  I'll choose another "truth"...until proven wrong.

[[Co...]]

Hi all,

 

These tensions are just failures in communication stemming from failing to understand that our personal experience of benzodiazepine withdrawal is not always a good template to judge the experience of others going through the same thing. Some people are so desperately ill, all they can do is write about how poorly they feel. To others, this might seem as not the best attitude. Alternatively, when others write more positively (either because their experience is different, or because of a different personality type), others 'going through hell' mistakenly take this as some kind of attempt to 'kick them up the arse into a better attitude'. In the main, members' intentions in such writings (either way) are well intentioned. But sometimes it is more than that, and it is those times which concern the moderation team. (Even for us, it can be difficult to determine true intentions). Members should accept that other members will use BB differently to them, either because their experience is different, or simply because the person is different. Then there is the further complication that during withdrawal it can be very difficult to remain calm and/or step outside of ourselves to consider the perspective of others. There is something of a truism I came across many years ago within benzo-circles: running a benzo-forum is like trying to herd cats. It is not always easy being a member of a benzo-forum either.

[[Fi...]]

Colin--I think sometimes it can be a bit like other support groups.  Can you imagine how fast you get kicked out of an infertility support group if you get pregnant?  Instantaneously!  The process of success is slower in healing from benzos--you never hit a point where you can take a test and it comes up positive for healing.  But people sick and suffering and watching other people heal clearly find it difficult to be gracious.  I'm disturbed by how often the word "lucky" is hurled at others with bitterness, and how entitled some people seem to feel to indulge in vicious name-calling as long as they perceive that the person they're attacking is feeling the tiniest bit better than they are themselves.

 

I feel bad for these newbies who waded into Chewing the Fat believing the description that this was a place to discuss things.   

[[Fl...]]

Hi all,

 

These tensions are just failures in communication stemming from failing to understand that our personal experience of benzodiazepine withdrawal is not always a good template to judge the experience of others going through the same thing. Some people are so desperately ill, all they can do is write about how poorly they feel. To others, this might seem as not the best attitude. Alternatively, when others write more positively (either because their experience is different, or because of a different personality type), others 'going through hell' mistakenly take this as some kind of attempt to 'kick them up the arse into a better attitude'. In the main, members' intentions in such writings (either way) are well intentioned. But sometimes it is more than that, and it is those times which concern the moderation team. (Even for us, it can be difficult to determine true intentions). Members should accept that other members will use BB differently to them, either because their experience is different, or simply because the person is different. Then there is the further complication that during withdrawal it can be very difficult to remain calm and/or step outside of ourselves to consider the perspective of others. There is something of a truism I came across many years ago within benzo-circles: running a benzo-forum is like trying to herd cats. It is not always easy being a member of a benzo-forum either.

 

One thing this experience has really underscored for me is that different people have different ways of coping with illness and adversity and we need to try to be tolerant of different recovery styles.

 

I am the kind of person who needs to keep it real and some of the stuff that is overly optimistic to me feels like it insults my intelligence.  This might come off as "negative" to some but I take comfort in looking at the situation realistically.

 

Other people are just the opposite. They need to reassure themselves that everything is going to be ok, even if that means putting an overly positive spin on a negative situation.

 

Throw in the fact that this experience is as different for each person as it is similar and you have a recipe for some conflict when it comes to healing styles. No reason why we can't all get along though, and discussions like this help everyone understand where others are coming from.

[[Ja...]]

Colin I'm starting to feel sorry for you for having to herd in all of us cats. But I thank you for doing so

[[ly...]]

 

FloridaGuy,

 

That is about the most insulting post that I have read here on BB.

 

Let's see:  I am not keeping it real to the extent that I insult your intelligence.  You are realistic and I am unrealistic.  I have to exaggerate/spin things as overly optimistic as a coping mechanism.  I have a different style of healing that, basically, bears no semblance to fact or truth.

 

Did I miss anything?

[[Ja...]]

Lynn33. I, like you would love to hear some positive outcome stories. And yes, I thought this was the topic as well.

[[Bl...]]

Hi all,

 

These tensions are just failures in communication stemming from failing to understand that our personal experience of benzodiazepine withdrawal is not always a good template to judge the experience of others going through the same thing.

 

One thing this experience has really underscored for me is that different people have different ways of coping with illness and adversity and we need to try to be tolerant of different recovery styles. 

 

Thank you both, Colin and FloridaGuy, for taking the time to post the above comments. I appreciate all the energy, effort, time that you both devote towards a very misunderstood condition….caused by legally prescribed drugs.

 

By extension I want to thank all the moderators, as well as anyone who assists Colin in making BB a place possible for people to get support and information on this subject.

BlueRose

[[Di...]]

 

FloridaGuy,

 

That is about the most insulting post that I have read here on BB.

 

Let's see:  I am not keeping it real to the extent that I insult your intelligence.  You are realistic and I am unrealistic.  I have to exaggerate/spin things as overly optimistic as a coping mechanism.  I have a different style of healing that, basically, bears no semblance to fact or truth.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Yes, you totally missed the intent of Florida's post. If you think that is "about the most insulting post" you've read on BB you really haven't read a lot of posts here. There was nothing insulting in what he said. It was purely an opinion. It's no wonder these threads get so totally off track when people take what other people say so far out of context.

 

It happened to me a few pages back where someone took a quote of mine, and tried to put an "insulting" spin on it (even though what they posted is clearly not insulting). They didn't actually name me, but I know the reason behind why they did it and that's because they don't like it when people don't automatically agree with them. I chose to ignore it, because I'm better than that.

 

You've gotten upset because you say people have taken you out of context on your positivity thread, but you are guilty of doing exactly the same thing.

[[Ja...]]

Please!  Can we all stop this. It's not helping any of us. Imo time to move on

[[ly...]]

 

 

I agree with that Jayne!

[[Co...]]

Colin--I think sometimes it can be a bit like other support groups.  Can you imagine how fast you get kicked out of an infertility support group if you get pregnant?  Instantaneously!  The process of success is slower in healing from benzos--you never hit a point where you can take a test and it comes up positive for healing.  But people sick and suffering and watching other people heal clearly find it difficult to be gracious.  I'm disturbed by how often the word "lucky" is hurled at others with bitterness, and how entitled some people seem to feel to indulge in vicious name-calling as long as they perceive that the person they're attacking is feeling the tiniest bit better than they are themselves.

 

I feel bad for these newbies who waded into Chewing the Fat believing the description that this was a place to discuss things. 

 

Urgh. I think your analogy is poor. And in any case, I would have hoped that if someone joins a fertility group because of problems with getting pregnant, but they do actually become pregnant (this must happen pretty often), it would be better to celebrate that. After all, infertility describes a spectrum; rarely is it an absolute situation (in practice at least, if not technically (surrogates, donors, etc.)). I am not talking about rubbing people's noses in it. We've had one or two account holders (trolls) do this over the years, and their accounts are banned. That's not what's happening here.

 

 

FloridaGuy,

 

That is about the most insulting post that I have read here on BB.

 

Let's see:  I am not keeping it real to the extent that I insult your intelligence.  You are realistic and I am unrealistic.  I have to exaggerate/spin things as overly optimistic as a coping mechanism.  I have a different style of healing that, basically, bears no semblance to fact or truth.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Yes, it seems quite evident that you did. FloridaGuy totally 'owned' his words; he did not attempt to project his views and attitudes upon other members and expressly commented to the contrary of your assertion:

 

One thing this experience has really underscored for me is that different people have different ways of coping with illness and adversity and we need to try to be tolerant of different recovery styles.

 

I am the kind of person who needs to keep it real and some of the stuff that is overly optimistic to me feels like it insults my intelligence.  This might come off as "negative" to some but I take comfort in looking at the situation realistically.

 

Other people are just the opposite. They need to reassure themselves that everything is going to be ok, even if that means putting an overly positive spin on a negative situation.

 

Throw in the fact that this experience is as different for each person as it is similar and you have a recipe for some conflict when it comes to healing styles. No reason why we can't all get along though, and discussions like this help everyone understand where others are coming from.

 

Again, members need to accept that BB is a broad community of people who experience withdrawal differently, with their individual particular ways of coping. It also should be understood those experiencing few or no difficulties are highly unlikely to frequent this support group.

[[Fi...]]

Urgh. I think your analogy is poor. And in any case, I would have hoped that if someone joins a fertility group because of problems of getting pregnant, but they do actually become pregnant (this must happen pretty often), it would be better to celebrate that. After all, infertility describes a spectrum; rarely is it an absolute situation (in practice at least, if not technically (surrogates, donors, etc.)). I am not talking about rubbing people's noses in it. We've had one or two account holders (trolls) do this over the years, and their accounts are banned. That's not what's happening here

 

Infertility is not a "spectrum" in the sense that once you get pregnant, you are immediately out of that class defined as infertile. You have come out a  winner.  And of course it "would be better" to celebrate that.  My point is, that's not how people always behave.  Some people feel like good news for others is bad news for them, when really, good news for somebody is good news for everybody.

 

I've actually thought a lot about what I went through with infertility in going through benzo withdrawal, because although benzo withdrawal can seem endless and hopeless, we are all promised that the end of this is a return to health for everybody.  This is not the case with infertility.  With infertility you can be putting in years of trying, with everything that entails in terms of repeatedly dashed hopes, high medical bills, people asking you why you don't just give up and tut-tutting over your ill-considered determination and, in the end, plenty of people never do get pregnant, even after all this.

 

Anyway, this is just a story I've reminded myself of as I've been going through benzo and opioid withdrawal.  I believe in behaving as if you believe that in any given situation a positive outcome is imminent.  It may not be, but anybody who assumes a bad outcome and gives up...well, for sure they won't reach their goal, right?     

[[Co...]]

Urgh. I think your analogy is poor. And in any case, I would have hoped that if someone joins a fertility group because of problems of getting pregnant, but they do actually become pregnant (this must happen pretty often), it would be better to celebrate that. After all, infertility describes a spectrum; rarely is it an absolute situation (in practice at least, if not technically (surrogates, donors, etc.)). I am not talking about rubbing people's noses in it. We've had one or two account holders (trolls) do this over the years, and their accounts are banned. That's not what's happening here

 

Infertility is not a "spectrum" in the sense that once you get pregnant, you are immediately out of that class defined as infertile. You have come out a  winner.  And of course it "would be better" to celebrate that.  My point is, that's not how people always behave.  Some people feel like good news for others is bad news for them, when really, good news for somebody is good news for everybody.

 

I've actually thought a lot about what I went through with infertility in going through benzo withdrawal, because although benzo withdrawal can seem endless and hopeless, we are all promised that the end of this is a return to health for everybody.  This is not the case with infertility.  With infertility you can be putting in years of trying, with everything that entails in terms of repeatedly dashed hopes, high medical bills, people asking you why you don't just give up and tut-tutting over your ill-considered determination and, in the end, plenty of people never do get pregnant, even after all this.

 

Anyway, this is just a story I've reminded myself of as I've been going through benzo and opioid withdrawal.  I believe in behaving as if you believe that in any given situation a positive outcome is imminent.  It may not be, but anybody who assumes a bad outcome and gives up...well, for sure they won't reach their goal, right?   

 

Just wanted to give you a hug. It seems awful going through that.

[[no...]]

 

If you think that is "about the most insulting post" you've read on BB you really haven't read a lot of posts here.

:laugh:

 

 

Before the 'shit hits the fan''  I'm not laughing at anyone but at the ironical truth of the above line by DP, its funny because its true. I also like other people have a sense of humour, even if it is hard to access on times . Laughter is precious in times of suffering and I'm not wasting it for no one. 

 

 

love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[Mo...]]

 

If you think that is "about the most insulting post" you've read on BB you really haven't read a lot of posts here.

:laugh:

 

 

Before the 'shit hits the fan''  I'm not laughing at anyone but at the ironical truth of the above line by DP, its funny because its true. I also like other people have a sense of humour, even if it is hard to access on times . Laughter is precious in times of suffering and I'm not wasting it for no one. 

 

 

love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

I'll join you nova  :laugh: ..obviously the OP aint seen

nothing yet....

 

FG insulting someone ?.....come on ...give me a break, never.

[[no...]]

 

If you think that is "about the most insulting post" you've read on BB you really haven't read a lot of posts here.

:laugh:

 

 

Before the 'shit hits the fan''  I'm not laughing at anyone but at the ironical truth of the above line by DP, its funny because its true. I also like other people have a sense of humour, even if it is hard to access on times . Laughter is precious in times of suffering and I'm not wasting it for no one. 

 

 

love Nova xxx  :smitten:

 

I'll join you nova  :laugh: ..obviously the OP aint seen

nothing yet....

 

FG insulting someone ?.....come on ...give me a break, never.

 

 

New thread topic : ''If you think that's insulting, wait until you read this f-in lot!!!   And all paste and copy the ''the best  of our worse'' replies from our time on the forum. 

 

 

love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[co...]]

Here are some funny insults Nova. Enjoy!

[[no...]]

Here are some funny insults Nova. Enjoy!

 

 

 

Cheers mate 

 

Love Nova xxx  :smitten:

[[co...]]

Nova, whenever you're feeling down,I want you to always remember this: You may not be the smartest or best-looking person in the world, but if you were a monkey you'd be really special.