Rant : What about not scaring everybody with our own singular experience ?

[[Ja...]]

I really think my infrequent use over the last five years (not to mention my daily usage 20 years ago where I got on/off low dose Valium with no issue at all!!) I think that whole history has increased my anxiety, plus having two kids and developing insomnia for the first time in 44 years

My use of Ativan started for sleep.

My anger and anxiety and rage increased

I did damage w a steroid shot that hit my nervous system last January

All of this has complicated things

For the person that posted about infrequent use maybe the best thing is to get on a daily dose and stabilize for several mos then taper down.. I think at least in my experience being on/off Ativan ( I took it 3 times per week for four mos) crested interdose w/d about one month into usage. I thought I had a brain tumor bc I was constantly dizzy, crazy anxious, numbness and buzzing everywhere. I didn't recognize myself. Yes I have sways leaned towards anxiety but not like this..

I think the benzo were/are responsible

If you are struggling w anxiety and it's not benzos then I would really try an AD to help. I am on remeron now and am kicking myself that I should have gotten on sooner than I wouldn't be in this position in the first place.. I think what ppl here are going thru is very real but I also think ppl verbally vomit on here and may be more functional than they seem.

My recovery mentor used to be on here. I asked him if he posted a success post he said no he just one day decided bb was making him more neurotic and he got off successfully in 6 mos. it was hard but he did it

[[En...]]

How simple things can get complicated sometimes. My first post was my own way of "giving", I guess. I never meant to say that people should shut up (waow) or that those who suffer (I do) don't deserve to be listened to. Of course. Does it really need to be explained ? The point is simpler and wiser, if I may. And I'm willing to stick to it. The scariest things that happened to many here, myself included, was to read bluntly, upon arrival or just about, that not only their taper will be very long, but that it will be worse afterwards, a minimum of 18 months, that this is the truth for people who land here etc. I know how it can terrify someone already weakened by many months of struggle. This not being a gift in my own psychological standards, I was suggesting we avoid the promotion of a single "truth" for everyone while talking to each others or to project our own progress onto anybody. It actually seemed important enough to me that I proposed in the past a disclaimer could be added in moderators signature emphasizing the value to take nothing posted here for granted, even from old timers here. it's always been my opinion that hope is a healer and that it does not marry well with those unsupported truth about anyone else's fate. Is that an appalling idea ? A sign of indifference ? I don't think so. Yet, if I offended someone, I would like to ask for forgiveness. I may take a break from the forum for a while. Enzo.

[[ca...]]

The insinuation that the "horror stories" must have something else wrong with them other than protracted withdrawal isn't exactly the "positivity" that we're looking for on BB.  It would be quite convenient to conclude this, but it isn't the case for everyone...please keep in mind that those of us (I am living this, 24 hours a day for three years, with my bedridden partner) who are, indeed, "horror stories" are the very reason that benzo use is like Russian roulette.  There are many, many lucky ones, but those who get the bullet shouldn't written off as simply exceptional cases that must have other "problems." 

 

I don't believe anyone on here is going to feel better about their own situation by dismissing others in this way...   

[[Ch...]]

The insinuation that the "horror stories" must have something else wrong with them other than protracted withdrawal isn't exactly the "positivity" that we're looking for on BB.  It would be quite convenient to conclude this, but it isn't the case for everyone...please keep in mind that those of us (I am living this, 24 hours a day for three years, with my bedridden partner) who are, indeed, "horror stories" are the very reason that benzo use is like Russian roulette.  There are many, many lucky ones, but those who get the bullet shouldn't written off as simply exceptional cases that must have other "problems." 

 

I don't believe anyone on here is going to feel better about their own situation by dismissing others in this way... 

 

Well said Cali. I couldn't agree with you more. 

 

Chinook 

[[no...]]

The insinuation that the "horror stories" must have something else wrong with them other than protracted withdrawal isn't exactly the "positivity" that we're looking for on BB.  It would be quite convenient to conclude this, but it isn't the case for everyone...please keep in mind that those of us (I am living this, 24 hours a day for three years, with my bedridden partner) who are, indeed, "horror stories" are the very reason that benzo use is like Russian roulette.  There are many, many lucky ones, but those who get the bullet shouldn't written off as simply exceptional cases that must have other "problems." 

 

I don't believe anyone on here is going to feel better about their own situation by dismissing others in this way... 

 

 

I totally agree Cali  and for those in protracted to read ''horror stories must have something else wrong with them other than protracted withdrawal'' is perpetuating the very fear that the original poster wrote about. Its also an ironical statement to make.

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[Ja...]]

I feel I have to speak up here. All Enzo is saying is that most people will have very different experiences. Many of us will not experience protracted withdrawal.  No one here is implying that they don't exist. I have the utmost compassion for all of our buddies on the site. No matter protracted or those who had less problems. No matter what we all have to go through this horrible experience. Enzo, imo, is the one being bashed here for simply stating what I and many others have already been thinking. So let's all do our best to support one another in the best way we can. 

[[Fi...]]

You are brave, Jayne.  I admire that.

[[Co...]]

I think it's about the part when someone stated that protracted members have something else wrong.

No they are just unlucky and I also tend to feel the hostility towards the protracted ones. It's awful, we need to aknowledge them.

Because this is the same way ppl don't acknowledge ppl who have small problems from pills. It's an unhappy truth. So yes there are members suffering for plus 10 years.

We do not do anyone justice for ignoring that fact.

A lot of ppl heal relativily quickly yes. Count your blessings.

[[ly...]]

 

 

What was said was that "some" of the people here may have other things going on.  Not all, most, or the majority.  Perhaps "a few"?  Many end up on benzos due to underlying psychological problems/illness.  I know I did.  Maybe, just maybe, a few are dealing with the reemergence of symptoms that had been long held at bay by the benzos .  I believe that is what was meant and there is no intent by anyone to diminish anything or anyone. 

[[Fl...]]

 

 

What was said was that "some" of the people here may have other things going on.  Not all, most, or the majority.  Perhaps "a few"?  Many end up on benzos due to underlying psychological problems/illness.  I know I did.  Maybe, just maybe, a few are dealing with the reemergence of symptoms that had been long held at bay by the benzos .  I believe that is what was meant and there is no intent by anyone to diminish anything or anyone.

 

It would be foolish to deny that underlying issues might contribute to benzo symptoms in some cases but looking around the protracted board I have no reason to believe that anyone there is dealing primarily with a preexisting psychological issue. Most of the symptoms people talk about are classic benzo stuff, and if they did have any of it pre withdrawal it was not of the magnitude they are experiencing now.

 

So although most of us will acknowledge that there is truth to the idea that some people might have other issues that are complicating things, it is still insulting to hear someone point it out because it essentially means that people are skeptical of what you are experiencing. That's not a good feeling, especially after you have been dealing with the same debilitating symptoms for a long time and especially hen it comes from people who have been through it themselves who should understand.

[[Co...]]

 

 

What was said was that "some" of the people here may have other things going on.  Not all, most, or the majority.  Perhaps "a few"?  Many end up on benzos due to underlying psychological problems/illness.  I know I did.  Maybe, just maybe, a few are dealing with the reemergence of symptoms that had been long held at bay by the benzos .  I believe that is what was meant and there is no intent by anyone to diminish anything or anyone.

 

It would be foolish to deny that underlying issues might contribute to benzo symptoms in some cases but looking around the protracted board I have no reason to believe that anyone there is dealing primarily with a preexisting psychological issue. Most of the symptoms people talk about are classic benzo stuff, and if they did have any of it pre withdrawal it was not of the magnitude they are experiencing now.

 

So although most of us will acknowledge that there is truth to the idea that some people might have other issues that are complicating things, it is still insulting to hear someone point it out because it essentially means that people are skeptical of what you are experiencing. That's not a good feeling, especially after you have been dealing with the same debilitating symptoms for a long time and especially hen it comes from people who have been through it themselves who should understand.

 

I feel this way too.

It's like people don't want to look at you or deal with you because you are "the horror story" 

I started as a young teenager so this is why I'm in so much trouble. That doesn't mean that I have an underlying condition. I have conquered my old demons a very long time ago with help of therapy.

My problem is all the MS like symptoms which mean I'm mostly house bound/ bed ridden/wheel chair/ or just some small amount of walking ability.

I've been turned inside out, nothing else is wrong.

That doesn't mean that others will go through this. It just means that I exist and my problems have the same right to exist as smaller/lesser withdrawal syndroms.

[[Ja...]]

That's how I took those comments too Lynn33. Let's stop attacking each other

[[Co...]]

Hi all,

 

I hope this helps.

 

I think this thread was posted with good intentions, but there have been a number of unfortunate comments; or, at least, some posters have not picked their words as carefully as they might. But the real problem is that many members fail to read/consider/understand our Mission Statement. Others fail by posting blanket statements based upon their personal experiences (or, the experiences of self-selecting groups) - this would be a mistake.

 

Anyway, the Mission Statement:

 

Mission Statement

BenzoBuddies: an inclusive, nonjudgmental mutual-support environment for those who wish to withdraw from benzodiazepines.

 

Members of the BenzoBuddies community are encouraged to exchange ideas, information and support during the process of withdrawal and recovery.

 

Although outside of the immediate scope of BenzoBuddies, members are free to discuss their wider medical problems and needs as they relate to benzodiazepine use and withdrawal.

 

Taking or quitting any medicine—including benzodiazepines—should be a personal decision made in consultation with a suitably qualified medical practitioner.

 

Through a peer-support model, we strive to help members achieve their goals.

 

On a side note: I will be tidying up that Mission Statement in the near future.

 

There are some references in some of our Policy Documents (and Rules) about writing style and avoiding making general statements based upon our personal experiences:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=52.0

 

These kind of topics have been discussed before at BB; the following links might prove useful for this discussion (I'll post more if I can track down other related threads):

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=76243.0

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=48083.0

 

My position on this is that we should not question why an individual chooses to join BB. Of course, there will be some discussion around an individual's situation based upon what they write and the questions they ask, but we should remain respectful of 'their reality'. If it is completely reasonable to assume that some members will not have a good grasp upon their true situation (just as in the wider population of non-members), but it also (highly) reasonable to assume that we cannot know the reality of another person's situation and life through their writings at BB. It is fine to ask genuine questions (after all, BB is a discussion forum) and post respectful suggestions, but it is not OK to use an accusatory 'tone'. We should not extrapolate from our personal experience to the general; not should we presume to understand someone else's situation and life batter than they do themselves. To do so would be disrespectful or even arrogant.

 

I am not aiming my comments at any particular posters to this thread. This is more about me explaining a few things about how BB operates, and to relay my own (not inconsiderable) experience in running a benzodiazepam withdrawal support forum.

[[Ja...]]

Thank you Colin. I too feel that the thread was posted with good intentions. We are all suffering in our own and sometimes very similar ways. I truly believe we are all here for pretty much the same reasons. No one but all of us here on bb will ever understand what coming off these poison pills is like. My own husband, who is a surgeon tells me its all in my head. Blah blah blah. No one who has never taken a benzo, much less tapered  off of them will understand us.  So let's not harm each other in this safe place. Just my two cents

[[co...]]

Hi Colin, this site and the people who post here have been a Godsend to me. I found Enzo's original post as well as the ones that followed very thought provoking. But I understand your wanting to tamp down controversy. I think overall the moderators do a fine job balancing freedom of speech and keeping things from boiling over. I hope things don't change too drastically here (Other than radical healing for all!)

[[ci...]]

I understand how some "horror stories" scare some BBs. I understand how protracted members scare some BBs. But those who are suffering severely or are in protracted, need support also. What is so sad is many of our members who suffer have left the site because they do not want to scare or upset other members. Such as Dezlez left, specifically because she was informed that she was scaring others. How sad that is, She needs support , too. She was so supportive and encouraging to us when she shared her success story with us. But when she had a set back, she got complaints that her setback story scared others, So she left. Well, we let her down, we failed her.

 

Enzo, some of us just disagree with you, That's all. But don't leave us, you need us and we need you. I wish you the very best.

 

Always, candy

 

 

[[Di...]]

How simple things can get complicated sometimes. My first post was my own way of "giving", I guess. I never meant to say that people should shut up (waow) or that those who suffer (I do) don't deserve to be listened to. Of course. Does it really need to be explained ? The point is simpler and wiser, if I may. And I'm willing to stick to it. The scariest things that happened to many here, myself included, was to read bluntly, upon arrival or just about, that not only their taper will be very long, but that it will be worse afterwards, a minimum of 18 months, that this is the truth for people who land here etc. I know how it can terrify someone already weakened by many months of struggle. This not being a gift in my own psychological standards, I was suggesting we avoid the promotion of a single "truth" for everyone while talking to each others or to project our own progress onto anybody. It actually seemed important enough to me that I proposed in the past a disclaimer could be added in moderators signature emphasizing the value to take nothing posted here for granted, even from old timers here. it's always been my opinion that hope is a healer and that it does not marry well with those unsupported truth about anyone else's fate. Is that an appalling idea ? A sign of indifference ? I don't think so. Yet, if I offended someone, I would like to ask for forgiveness. I may take a break from the forum for a while. Enzo.

 

I seem to be a late comer to this thread, so a lot has already been said, but to add my two cents worth I have say I am a little surprised by some of the comments. I’m sure Enzo you did have good intentions when you started this thread, but I do have to disagree with most of what you have written.

 

First of all, I’ve yet to see any one “truth” being posted on BB where everyone is told this is how they will suffer or how long they will suffer for. No one knows the answers to those questions, so how can there be one “truth” being posted. I suppose if you are going to read the protracted withdrawal section you might be lead to believe that is standard for everyone, but there are a lot of other sections to BB where you can read a larger variety of experiences.

 

Secondly, this is a support thread, and there are a lot of people who are suffering really badly. I’m sure none of those people really care about upsetting other people’s feelings if they really feel like they need to rant about something. These people are suffering probably more than anyone else here, and they need to be able to rant and to be listened to. They should not have to self-edit their feelings just to please other people.

 

I tend to be pretty forthright with what I say, and that can get me into trouble, but I do get a bit annoyed by some of the posts that get made telling other posters they need to be more positive, or they should be careful about what they post. Thankfully my overall taper was pretty manageable, but quite frankly if I had been suffering as badly as some people here are, and then someone had to audacity to tell me to be more "positive" or that I need to not post certain things for fear of scaring other people, I would have told them to f*** off.

 

 

 

[[Di...]]

I understand how some "horror stories" scare some BBs. I understand how protracted members scare some BBs. But those who are suffering severely or are in protracted, need support also. What is so sad is many of our members who suffer have left the site because they do not want to scare or upset other members. Such as Dezlez left, specifically because she was informed that she was scaring others. How sad that is, She needs support , too. She was so supportive and encouraging to us when she shared her success story with us. But when she had a set back, she got complaints that her setback story scared others, So she left. Well, we let her down, we failed her.

 

Enzo, some of us just disagree with you, That's all. But don't leave us, you need us and we need you. I wish you the very best.

 

Always, candy

 

 

 

I totally agree with you Cindy. I personally don’t know Dezlez, so I can’t comment on her experiences or why she left, but if that’s true then yes she was totally let down by BB and that makes me so sad. I hope she is doing better.

 

This is why threads like this really upset me because we don’t know who’s reading them. Someone who is suffering really badly could be reading this and may feel they also need to leave because their “truth” is that they are suffering “too much”. It would be a sorry state of affairs for that to happen, because BB is one of the few places these people have to feel comfortable and non-judged – yet here they are seemingly being judged and told what they should post. 

 

Just because benzo "horror stories" may be in the minority (as someone's doctor claimed - and don't we all believe everything our doctors say  ), doesn't mean those stories are any less valid that anyone else's story. We need to remember that, and stop all this stuff about telling other people how they should be dealing with their benzo experience.

[[ci...]]

diaz-pam, Amen.

[[ba...]]

Hi all,

 

I'll start with this quote that I read recently.

 

"I also wonder sometimes if what some people are calling “protracted withdrawal” isn’t something else? Once again, please don’t think I’m minimising anyone’s suffering at all, but didn’t all of us have a reason for being on benzos in the first place?"

 

These are the type of comments that are insulting and demeaning.  It made me angry, but I kept my mouth shut.  I don't post often anymore, however, sometimes I need to set my record straight:

 

I still have great difficulty reading and writing.  I walk with a rolling gait.  I can drive, but only for short distances around my large rural town.  Sunshine is especially problematic when it hits the trees and creates patterns of shade while I navigate.  My sound sensitivity is lessening, but the blare of a horn can still make me cringe.  I "wake up" most mornings with the blood coursing through my veins as I pant for release.  My bones and muscles ache, my lips and tongue burn...do I really need to go on about the mental stuff? 

 

I am asking those of you who are relatively short-term (or long term users that have not yet completed a taper) to take a step back and consider what it is like to take these poisons ( benzos) for many, many years while in tolerance withdrawal. How is it that in your "short" course, you have suddenly become an expert on the power of positive healing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[ca...]]

Just a final comment on this...  In the end, these "horror stories" will become the most amazing, Phoenix-like success stories found in the BB archives!!  This isn't just a re-imagining of a terrible situation, but rather the very reason we are here...to find support and hope.  If the worst cases can eventually go on to live normal, happy lives, then there's hope for everyone on here...  Yes, it is incredibly scary to see how far this can go in terms of severity of symptoms, length of time, etc., but the documentation of the process and final success gives us a record of the healing that ultimately occurs.

[[no...]]

I understand how some "horror stories" scare some BBs. I understand how protracted members scare some BBs. But those who are suffering severely or are in protracted, need support also. What is so sad is many of our members who suffer have left the site because they do not want to scare or upset other members. Such as Dezlez left, specifically because she was informed that she was scaring others. How sad that is, She needs support , too. She was so supportive and encouraging to us when she shared her success story with us. But when she had a set back, she got complaints that her setback story scared others, So she left. Well, we let her down, we failed her.

 

Enzo, some of us just disagree with you, That's all. But don't leave us, you need us and we need you. I wish you the very best.

 

Always, candy

 

Hi C  , I wondered what had happened to Dee, it was really terrible what she went through my heart goes out to her And after all that she still helped and prayed for others on here, no matter who they were. That's tragic that she felt she had to go because of others? Everyone has their story to tell, and what some people have gone through is a lot more scary than others but that's life even without benzos or any drugs.

 

Why dismiss the truth? if it wasn't for the ''scary stuff' on here I'd probably be dead now after 35 year's of hell, protracted ,kindled, tolerance withdrwal, poly-drugged, all because I had a bad reaction to an antibiotic when I was a teenager.

 

My ''reason'' for being on benzos, my Doctor got it wrong and nearly all of my life was spent in hell, losing myself, and people I cared for and loved deserted me. Labeled  ''Attention seeking hypochondriac'' ''mental'' and worse by people who should have seen something was terribly wrong, I was a kid too out of my mind on prescription drugs to work it out myself.

 

I went from being a brilliant athlete, highly intelligent,loving, giving, always active, loved life person  to a shell of the  human I once was. But thanks to al the wonderful people that told their truth I now know mine and am fighting and clawing my way back to the person I came here to be, not he ''non' person all those year's and so many drugs but always benzos along side every family of other drug I was given.. ''March 1st 2015', Joined 'BB' Life began again'' .

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[En...]]

About the word « truth » I used in my earlier post on this thread. It’s coming from this quote

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=146588.msg1972797#msg1972797« This is an interesting thread for those who aren't afraid to tell the truth regarding the challenges of being off ». The expression (one of many) « those who are not afraid to tell the truth » triggered my response. That’s for the more technical aspect.

 

I really felt I was stating the obvious, a kind truism almost with starry-eyed, but I never thought it would reveal a furious need to divide the forum into camps : newbies against protracted. Some felt a need to protect the protracted ones (« http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=150741.msg2024914#msg2024914 those who most need our support » or http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=150741.msg2025311#msg2025311 the hostility towards the protracted ones (!)) where I was asking for a bit of understanding (a healthy extra care in picking words for instance) for the newbies who have all the way to go. I know for myself that there was no idea of ignoring what protracted symptoms mean in a human life (I’ve lived 2 years of hell already, why would I see it any other way ?). There must be a human archetype of division to turn that call into a war, displaying a number of times the f..k word with a fake smile, pushing the irony to see more compassion in rejecting my point than in dismissing the fact that the fear and suffering of newly arrived on the forum deserves as much respect and care as any other pain. You would have intended to show me  there is an actual imbalance in favor of the older ones here, you would have not brought your point differently. You are sponsoring my point by trying to nail it. This attempt to blow out a candle with a blaze leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

 

However, I feel responsible for the tone of my first message (being french I tend to sometimes ignore some cultural subtleties of political correctness) and having used the word rant in its title. Certainly a mistake. Yet, it does not compensate for what has been aimed at me around here. « Chewing the fat » becomes a place to avoid for me, if not the whole forum where it will be difficult for me to assume there would be any compassion after having raised so many enemies. In those times of wild fears, the decision to let go of Benzobuddies is probably the wisest move for me. Pondering on that anyway. A pity. 

 

[[no...]]

About the word « truth » I used in my earlier post on this thread. It’s coming from this quote

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=146588.msg1972797#msg1972797« This is an interesting thread for those who aren't afraid to tell the truth regarding the challenges of being off ». The expression (one of many) « those who are not afraid to tell the truth » triggered my response. That’s for the more technical aspect.

 

I really felt I was stating the obvious, a kind truism almost with starry-eyed, but I never thought it would reveal a furious need to divide the forum into camps : newbies against protracted. Some felt a need to protect the protracted ones (« http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=150741.msg2024914#msg2024914 those who most need our support » or http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=150741.msg2025311#msg2025311 the hostility towards the protracted ones (!)) where I was asking for a bit of understanding (a healthy extra care in picking words for instance) for the newbies who have all the way to go. I know for myself that there was no idea of ignoring what protracted symptoms mean in a human life (I’ve lived 2 years of hell already, why would I see it any other way ?). There must be a human archetype of division to turn that call into a war, displaying a number of times the f..k word with a fake smile, pushing the irony to see more compassion in rejecting my point than in dismissing the fact that the fear and suffering of newly arrived on the forum deserves as much respect and care as any other pain. You would have intended to show me  there is an actual imbalance in favor of the older ones here, you would have not brought your point differently. You are sponsoring my point by trying to nail it. This attempt to blow out a candle with a blaze leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

 

However, I feel responsible for the tone of my first message (being french I tend to sometimes ignore some cultural subtleties of political correctness) and having used the word rant in its title. Certainly a mistake. Yet, it does not compensate for what has been aimed at me around here. « Chewing the fat » becomes a place to avoid for me, if not the whole forum where it will be difficult for me to assume there would be any compassion after having raised so many enemies. In those times of wild fears, the decision to let go of Benzobuddies is probably the wisest move for me. Pondering on that anyway. A pity. 

 

 

Enzo  every post regardless of its topic opens up a discussion, discussion open up opinions and thoughts and reflections of views. Its part of the human condition and every human before, now, and after us comes into this world with the other ''human'' things in our ''blue print''. On this forum are many damaged humans , most of who are afraid, you included otherwise this thread would not be here. Don't take off or make it what defines you because of differences of opinion on this thread or any other thread.

 

Believe me, I've had some terrible abuse on here so have others and some lovely comments but there both sides of the same coin,opinion. So lots of people agree and disagree about the same things different things that's life on a Forum not just this one but any Forum, I may not agree with something you say and like wise you with me but that doesn't make us enemies. 

 

A lot of things you said I also totally agree with, and I do not belive your intension meant was badly, but emotions will get hyped up on here when certain subjects come up. I actually think your a really nice guy and as I said about another member in my last post on here why leave because of other people? 

 

If I did that I would be leaving nearly everyday since I joined, no one is your enemy, sure people won't like what you said but its just an opinion, and at the end of he day the only opinion about you personally that matters is the one you have of yourself. Other peoples thoughts are their own business, it matters not whether they love,like, or hate us. 

 

But it really matters that we love or like ourself, that's where true happiness is, our belief about our selves, not others outside us. Lots of people could adore us 24/7 like some God or Goddess, but if we don't feel good about ourself inside it means nothing and matters not at all.

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[Ja...]]

Enzo I for one consider you a friend not foe. Don't leave. Your perspective has certainly helped me and I thank you for it.