Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

Hello all,

 

 

 

If I dilute 90ml water with 10ml valium at 5:5 strength, that makes a 10:1 solution. I'm at 7.7mgs valium. So I take 7mgs in pill form, and 7ml on the 10 ml syringe correct to equal .70mg?

Correct.

 

And if I use the smaller 1ml syringe, every .1ml would be a .01mg cut correct?

Correct.

 

Just looking for some clarification. Thank you, my best to you all

 

Hmm, I thought I answered this in a PM, but I guess I didn't.

[[fi...]]

Thanks Builder,

I reached out to you one more time in a PM but didn't hear back, which is totally cool, you're not here to serve me. I always appreciate any help you can provide, Guru.

[[Gr...]]

I've been using soy milk taper klonopin, is that a suspension or solution? 

[[Ar...]]

I think I cut too fast...I have been taking 3ml x2 a day of milk tit Ativan in a bottle containing 40 ml...with one mg pill ground up into it. I cut to 1.5 ml x2 a day and now symptoms are starting to get bad again ..namely jerking awake unable to fall asleep...heart pounding etc...I did this cut three days ago..would it be bad to go back to 3ml x2 a day again? Or would it be okay? I'm kinda worried this is gonna get worse...but that could also just be the anxiety. Any advice would be helpful thanks. Up until now I was doing good.

[[Su...]]

 

 

Can someone explain to me the science behind going from dry to liquid.  I've been told it would feel like a cut and it definitely has!!!  I've been super lightheaded...not something I tolerate well.  I'm on Day 6 of liquid.  Wow...just wow...this stuff is really evil.  Guess I should be grateful I don't have other symptoms.  Sure hope it passes...no way I can taper down right now.  Did this happen to you GARD when switching from dry to liquid?

 

Hi there insofar,

I too found going over completely to liquid almost unbearable,  as if I wasn't getting enough medicine.  I stopped after a few days and returned to pills only.

I now only do a small part of my daily dose in liquid, the rest dry and it works very well. A pharmacist I spoke to agreed that the body can respond to liquid medicine differently than dry.  Lots of people have some issues with it, and some none at all. 

Just an idea....

wishing you the best

SS

 

Hi Suffering Sixty.

are you taking only one dose a day?

Im working on this annoying mirtazapine with a liquid home brew. It was easy no problem cross from dry to liquid per Builders math. And mostly easy cutting. It only gets tough when Im near the 10% or some under it. I have to take a smaller cut.

But Valium and the benzos. IDK my last dry cut taper last year to may of this year was rough and ended badly and had to back dose to 4mg from 6mg. Though I cut from 45mg several years ago to around 6mg.

One thing Builder says is the 2mg tablets of Valium better to dissolve it whole in home brew if using that, than cut 1mg as the medicine particles may not be evenly distributed in the 2mg tablet. So 1mg or less might have none, some or most of the med. So IDK. Its trial and error sometimes.

 

Hi I dose 5x a day....4X with Valium and once at bedtime with Xanax and Mirt.... I've tried to reduce that but that works well for me atm...

 

[[Li...]]

Hi Suffering Sixty....The post about the science behind dry to liquid was originally from me....I don't know how to highlight stuff on here...lol.  I do remember you saying you had a hard time switching.  My med is a capsule so will just have to deal with it.  Felt like an updose at first and now feels like I'm not taking anything.  I can handle it tho...not too bad and gets a little better each day I suppose.  I was told to hang in there so I will.  Dang evil med. 

 

GARD...as always thanks for your response!  I'll brave the alcohol! 

 

Insofar....thanks for your comments..I will definitely give it more time to stabilize. I just called my pharmacist and they said taking it by liquid should feel the same and that I may be feeling effects due to some of the powder being left in the jar.  I know I don't leave any powder plus I put my capsule back together and take it too.  Oh well! 

[[Gr...]]

Hey Lib18 - it's really not supposed to be any different going to from dry to liquid.  I actually have no problems switching between the two. 

[[Li...]]

GreenCup...good to hear!  I know of others who haven't had issues but of course I would be one of the unlucky ones...tho it's very tolerable.  Just hoping I can stabilize.  The only symptom I'm having is lightheadedness...boaty kinda feeling.  But I'm also dealing with very low hormone levels as I simply can't tolerate hormones right now.  This is not going to be easy. 

[[ga...]]

 

Can someone explain to me the science behind going from dry to liquid.  I've been told it would feel like a cut and it definitely has!!!  I've been super lightheaded...not something I tolerate well.  I'm on Day 6 of liquid.  Wow...just wow...this stuff is really evil.  Guess I should be grateful I don't have other symptoms.  Sure hope it passes...no way I can taper down right now.  Did this happen to you GARD when switching from dry to liquid?

 

 

Hi info. I'm really sorry this has hit you so hard. Some people do report this effect when switching to liquid but no one seems to know exactly why. I was so symptomatic when I originally switched I don't know if I would have noticed a difference! Like Sixty, I take my dose part dry and part liquid. I had the smallest capsules available prescribed so I could do this. That made my switch less dramatic.

 

The reason for switching to liquid is it is much simpler to make small accurate cuts when dealing with a liquid than a solid.

 

I'm sorry I can't help with the math. I seem to have misplaced part of my brain.  

 

I think you are right to hold and not cut if you are feeling really symptomatic. I've never updosed, but I know others who have. It seems the sooner you do it the more likely it is to work. It's not instant, though. When the brain gets destabilized it takes a while for it to right itself. But it does. It seems like it won't, but it does. Hope you get some relief soon.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

Hello all,

 

I'm just trying to reach out to get some clarification and buddy support. My life has been a nightmare for 9 months due to really large dose of prednisone given in ER. I don't actively post but I've read thousands of pages and posts as of now. Thought it's maybe time to chime in. I originally was put on ativan up to 2.5 mgs a day after panic set in after the ER, and trazodone up to 150mgs. Eventually hit tolerance withdrawals, switched over to valium 25mgs by my request and began the terrible Ashton cut and hold taper. Tapered down from 25mg to 9mg, landed in psych ward for 3 days voluntarily for withdrawals (I'm a former medic, that place is terrifying, I've dropped off so many there). Told I was being non-compliant by not wanting to take any of the meds they offered, got released. Settled on remeron and got a very great psych. I also recently got liquid valium and pills. Trying to taper off using the daily liquid taper style small cuts. Builder has been of great help but I hate to keep bothering him.

 

If I dilute 90ml water with 10ml valium at 5:5 strength, that makes a 10:1 solution. I'm at 7.7mgs valium. So I take 7mgs in pill form, and 7ml on the 10 ml syringe correct to equal .70mg? And if I use the smaller 1ml syringe, every .1ml would be a .01mg cut correct? Just looking for some clarification. Thank you, my best to you all

 

Welcome, Fishy. Hope to see you posting again. It's good to post questions on the thread because others read and learn, so ask away.

 

I doubt you will ever approach my level of pestering of builder (and gang) when I was new here. Nobody kicked me out, so no worries about asking too much!

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hi gardenlady.    I think going to partially dry will ease the transition to liquid. Wouldn't hurt to wait a week or two after the switch to see how it affects you. Sorry you haven't gotten a math answer yet and that I don't do math (lest I mess somebody up).  Sharkey (look back a bit, he posts on this thread) has offered to help people who PM him. You could just tell him you posted a math question on the thread and ask him to take a look. Or you could wait for builder, but he is very busy! We keep him hopping!

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I've been using soy milk taper klonopin, is that a suspension or solution?

 

Green, I have heard that benzos dissolve in fat, also, so if it is high fat milk it is likely a solution.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hi gardenlady.    I think going to partially dry will ease the transition to liquid. Wouldn't hurt to wait a week or two after the switch to see how it affects you. Sorry you haven't gotten a math answer yet and that I don't do math (lest I mess somebody up).  Sharkey (look back a bit, he posts on this thread) has offered to help people who PM him. You could just tell him you posted a math question on the thread and ask him to take a look. Or you could wait for builder, but he is very busy! We keep him hopping!

 

Gard

Thanks for the response, Gard!  Sometimes I get antsy when I post and no one answers for awhile.

 

I just plopped two 5 mg valium tablets in 20 ml of propylene glycol...it's been about 15 min...and they're not dissolving.  Any idea, anyone, what the problem is?  Others told me that I didn't need to crush them if I was using PG.  Did I do something wrong?  The plan is to add 80 mls of water after they dissolve.  Thanks, buddies, for any advice!

[[ga...]]

I think I cut too fast...I have been taking 3ml x2 a day of milk tit Ativan in a bottle containing 40 ml...with one mg pill ground up into it. I cut to 1.5 ml x2 a day and now symptoms are starting to get bad again ..namely jerking awake unable to fall asleep...heart pounding etc...I did this cut three days ago..would it be bad to go back to 3ml x2 a day again? Or would it be okay? I'm kinda worried this is gonna get worse...but that could also just be the anxiety. Any advice would be helpful thanks. Up until now I was doing good.

 

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. It does sound like you cut too fast. All I know about up-dosing is the sooner you do it the more likely it is to work.

 

I see you also asked on the Long Hold thread. That is a great place to get advice about severe symptoms.

 

Hope you start to feel better soon.

 

Gard

[[ga...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hi gardenlady.    I think going to partially dry will ease the transition to liquid. Wouldn't hurt to wait a week or two after the switch to see how it affects you. Sorry you haven't gotten a math answer yet and that I don't do math (lest I mess somebody up).  Sharkey (look back a bit, he posts on this thread) has offered to help people who PM him. You could just tell him you posted a math question on the thread and ask him to take a look. Or you could wait for builder, but he is very busy! We keep him hopping!

 

Gard

Thanks for the response, Gard!  Sometimes I get antsy when I post and no one answers for awhile.

 

I just plopped two 5 mg valium tablets in 20 ml of propylene glycol...it's been about 15 min...and they're not dissolving.  Any idea, anyone, what the problem is?  Others told me that I didn't need to crush them if I was using PG.  Did I do something wrong?  The plan is to add 80 mls of water after they dissolve.  Thanks, buddies, for any advice!

 

Well, I never used PG. The time I water suspended my Q tablets, I always crushed them first even though they did fall to bits in water. I wanted the bits more even, so I crushed until they were. I used a glass mortar and pestle. If you decide to go the crushing route, I can tell you the method I learned from Anne that worked pretty well.

 

Off to O.T. I go now. Probably will get scolded. Not supposed to be on the keyboard so much with my tendonitis. Bad, bad Gard!

 

Gard

[[Gr...]]

I've been using soy milk taper klonopin, is that a suspension or solution?

 

Green, I have heard that benzos dissolve in fat, also, so if it is high fat milk it is likely a solution.

 

Gard

 

This makes sense to me, because I originally was using just water, but I even with shaking it up vigorously, I never felt completely sure that my measured amounts were what they were supposed to be.

[[Su...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hi gardenlady.    I think going to partially dry will ease the transition to liquid. Wouldn't hurt to wait a week or two after the switch to see how it affects you. Sorry you haven't gotten a math answer yet and that I don't do math (lest I mess somebody up).  Sharkey (look back a bit, he posts on this thread) has offered to help people who PM him. You could just tell him you posted a math question on the thread and ask him to take a look. Or you could wait for builder, but he is very busy! We keep him hopping!

 

Gard

Thanks for the response, Gard!  Sometimes I get antsy when I post and no one answers for awhile.

 

I just plopped two 5 mg valium tablets in 20 ml of propylene glycol...it's been about 15 min...and they're not dissolving.  Any idea, anyone, what the problem is?  Others told me that I didn't need to crush them if I was using PG.  Did I do something wrong?  The plan is to add 80 mls of water after they dissolve.  Thanks, buddies, for any advice!

T

try stirring it around a bit?  I've only used alcohol and the pills dissolved almost instantly....

SS

[[ga...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hi gardenlady.    I think going to partially dry will ease the transition to liquid. Wouldn't hurt to wait a week or two after the switch to see how it affects you. Sorry you haven't gotten a math answer yet and that I don't do math (lest I mess somebody up).  Sharkey (look back a bit, he posts on this thread) has offered to help people who PM him. You could just tell him you posted a math question on the thread and ask him to take a look. Or you could wait for builder, but he is very busy! We keep him hopping!

 

Gard

Thanks for the response, Gard!  Sometimes I get antsy when I post and no one answers for awhile.

 

I just plopped two 5 mg valium tablets in 20 ml of propylene glycol...it's been about 15 min...and they're not dissolving.  Any idea, anyone, what the problem is?  Others told me that I didn't need to crush them if I was using PG.  Did I do something wrong?  The plan is to add 80 mls of water after they dissolve.  Thanks, buddies, for any advice!

T

try stirring it around a bit?  I've only used alcohol and the pills dissolved almost instantly....

SS

I crushed and stirred them with a grapefruit spoon....odd that they didn't dissolve on their own after an hour or so....they were soft and broke up easily with the spoon, but now I'm wondering what I did wrong.  Also, there is sediment at the bottom of the jar.  I still haven't added the 80 mls of water yet as I was hoping the sediment would dissolve, but it hasn't.  Any ideas anyone?  Thanks!

[[ga...]]

 

I crushed and stirred them with a grapefruit spoon....odd that they didn't dissolve on their own after an hour or so....they were soft and broke up easily with the spoon, but now I'm wondering what I did wrong.  Also, there is sediment at the bottom of the jar.  I still haven't added the 80 mls of water yet as I was hoping the sediment would dissolve, but it hasn't.  Any ideas anyone?  Thanks!

 

There will be binders and fillers in the tablet that won't dissolve and will always be sediment. You don't need to worry about them. You just need to make sure your tablet has disintegrated (crush it, mash it, stir it, whatever works) so the benzo can come in contact with the solvent. I think there are people who let their tablet soak overnight and say that works for them. Probably depends on the solvent.

 

The benzo will dissolve if you have enough solvent. (I just go by what builder says for that.) I just dump out my capsule into my jar with my measured alcohol. I don't have to crush anything. The benzo is definitely in contact with the solvent and dissolved but I still have sediment because of the fillers in the capsule.

 

Gard

[[bu...]]

I've been using soy milk taper klonopin, is that a suspension or solution?

 

Benzos a re highly lipid (fat) soluble.  They form a true solution when mixed with fatty liquids.

[[bu...]]

Hey Lib18 - it's really not supposed to be any different going to from dry to liquid.  I actually have no problems switching between the two.

 

I actually learned about liquid tapering on the old BDR board.  Everyone there was doing some form of liquid taper, and no one ever reported any issues switching to liquid.

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

I just plopped two 5 mg valium tablets in 20 ml of propylene glycol...it's been about 15 min...and they're not dissolving.  Any idea, anyone, what the problem is?  Others told me that I didn't need to crush them if I was using PG.  Did I do something wrong?  The plan is to add 80 mls of water after they dissolve.  Thanks, buddies, for any advice!

 

Some mfgr's use a coating on tablets that slows down the disintegration of the tablet.  If you have tablets like thaen just crush them first, then add the solvent.  The benzo will still readily go into solution.

[[sh...]]

I am planning on starting a DLMT tomorrow.  I am at 2.5 mg valium and have been dry cutting...the last one from 3 mg to 2.5 mg was brutal.  If I do a combo dry and liquid, do you think I'll feel the crossover?  My plan is to take 2 mg dry and then taper .5 mg in liquid and try for .03 mg cut per day.  My solution will be 10 mg valium mixed with 20 mls PG added to 80 mls water.  This yields a 10:1 ratio where 1 ml = .1 mg.  So, my cuts should go as follows:

 

Day 1:  2 mg dry + .47mg as 4.7 mls

Day 2:  2 mg dry + .44mg as 4.4 mls

Day 3:  2 mg dry + .41 mg as 4.1 mls

 

Does this seem to make sense?  Wondering if I will feel the switch from all dry to partially dry.  Would love to know of others' experiences.  I realize this is an aggressive rate and I may not be able to sustain it, but I won't know unless I try.  I really need off this stuff as I have felt terrible the whole time.  I didn't stabilize even with a 4 month hold at 5 mg. 

 

Thanks in advance and wishes for successful tapering to all!

 

Hey gardenlady,

 

Your plan looks great to me.  The math is correct.  <Corrected> 20ml PG for 10mg Valium is the correct ratio. As far as knowing if the pill is dissolved, Gardner already said it, the benzo will dissolve quickly without having to crush it.  The fillers of the pill will settle to the bottom and will never dissolve.

 

I think you will do fine be switching partially to liquid.  Just switch to liquid and stay at .5mg for about 3 or 4 days and may sure there are no bad effects before you start cutting to make sure.  You may also want to work up to .03mg a day and build some confidence.  Do .01mg for a few days then .02mg for a week then try .03mg a day.  Just feel it out.  You will find a rate you are comfortable with.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[bu...]]

 

 

  I think builder said 1ml PG per 1mg of Valium.  So 10ml of PG for 10ml of V should be fine. Then add 90ml of water. 

sharkey

 

Just FYI, builder always recommends 2ml solvent for each mg of benzo.

 

Ex:  10mg V + 20ml PG + 80ml water.

[[sh...]]

Hello all,

 

I'm just trying to reach out to get some clarification and buddy support. My life has been a nightmare for 9 months due to really large dose of prednisone given in ER. I don't actively post but I've read thousands of pages and posts as of now. Thought it's maybe time to chime in. I originally was put on ativan up to 2.5 mgs a day after panic set in after the ER, and trazodone up to 150mgs. Eventually hit tolerance withdrawals, switched over to valium 25mgs by my request and began the terrible Ashton cut and hold taper. Tapered down from 25mg to 9mg, landed in psych ward for 3 days voluntarily for withdrawals (I'm a former medic, that place is terrifying, I've dropped off so many there). Told I was being non-compliant by not wanting to take any of the meds they offered, got released. Settled on remeron and got a very great psych. I also recently got liquid valium and pills. Trying to taper off using the daily liquid taper style small cuts. Builder has been of great help but I hate to keep bothering him.

 

If I dilute 90ml water with 10ml valium at 5:5 strength, that makes a 10:1 solution. I'm at 7.7mgs valium. So I take 7mgs in pill form, and 7ml on the 10 ml syringe correct to equal .70mg? And if I use the smaller 1ml syringe, every .1ml would be a .01mg cut correct? Just looking for some clarification. Thank you, my best to you all

 

You are correct!  Looks like you are on your way!  Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

Stay strong!

Sharkey