Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[an...]]

 

Oh by the way, I am a she and not a he.    But, it's all good.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

Ah ha! You have revealed your secret! Now how about you go into your profile and select "female" so all of us benzo-brains remember it! 

 

And best wishes to you, too! WE CAN DO THIS!

 

Hey Gardener,

 

I was not really focused on it until I got called a boy instead of a girl.    I will take your advice and complete my profile.  I guess when I joined my main focus was/is on getting this yucky stuff out of my system.

 

I hope that your taper is going well.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

[[an...]]

 

 

I needed to read these.  Fear of the WDs and being unable to function keeps me from taking action.  I never want to updose. I have one shot at this in my mind. I have had an emotional week. Reading any threads other than this one terrifies me.  Some of you are close to finishing your tapers. I am so happy for you. You rock.  Shaani 

 

Shaani, I read about three threads on this forum and just force myself to ignore the rest. I'm done gathering information, so there's no point in reading any more horror stories. The people who suffer the most are a small but understandably vocal minority. My heart goes out to them but I'm not in any kind of condition to be immersing myself in negativity and misery. At this point, I need to focus on the positive so I can get better.

 

BTW, I up-dosed slightly once after a stupidly huge cut, stabilized (took 3 very miserable weeks), and went on again. I think with the micro-tapering, I will more likely need to hold than to up-dose. But, even if I have to again, it's not a failure. It's a bump in the road. There will be bumps, but, remember we are on the right road and that's what matters!

 

Yeh, Shaani. I'd say don't read any of the other things on BB (or anywhere). None of it matters anyway. You're educated enough by now. You know what to do, so just go for it and take it slow. Nobody else in any other thread can control your mind. I made the mistake of reading other BB threads and practically freaked. My wife went through a killer bout with cancer over the past two years, and she told me that the people that do poorly with cancer (or anything, for that matter) usually do so because they don't follow a known workable protocol and end up feeling horrible and then go online and complain about it, or whatever. In other words, the people that do the worst because they don't do something the correct way...well, those are the ones that tend to go online and hash it out. You and I just need to take it one day at a time, and spend the majority of our time focusing on something else other than THIS. We're not going to let some drug control our lives anymore!!!!! WE'RE in control. Live life. Just titrate for a while as you live it, and soon the titration will be a thing of the past and life will go on. Today I did some volunteering, worked in the yard, and talked to some really nice neighbors. I forgot I was even on a drug!! Get rockin' and you'll do great. You'll see.  Hugs to ya!

 

Shaani,

 

Ultra and Gardner are both giving good advice here. Everyone's situation is different.  Some people are on more than one type of drug, some have stopped the drug cold turkey, some have other medical problems, some are already in tolerance, many make very large cuts, etc. In this group people are micro tapering. They are decreasing by very small amounts each day. I had a very successful taper back in 2007.  I tapered slowly (like a turtle) making daily cuts and had no problems during or after my taper. I was completely healed before I finished the taper.  I just started this taper on June 1, and I am doing very well.  Small daily cuts are the key. I know that I would feel terrible if I made a 10% cut in one day, but I am able to make that 10% cut every two weeks by cutting small amounts each day. It gives the body time to catch up.

 

[bold]Gardner,[/bold] I am glad to see you have started your taper.  You have it under control. As for the plastic, I used plastic to store and prepare my lorazepam doses during my first taper.  I had no problems at all.  The only reason I switched to the glass containers for this taper is because the plastic containers I used before would sometimes leak into my purse. They also leaked when I shook them.

 

Doodle dog, I am happy to hear that you are ready to start the taper. Sorry about the confusion in the beginning, but you have it right now.

 

I wish everyone a wonderful weekend!!

 

Anne

 

 

[[mf...]]

Hey Shaani

 

I think we have all been in your situation, fear of taking action because of WD is pretty common, I have been at BB since 2013 and still here, this thread by far is the most positive around probably due to the fact that daily micro tapering works. It is so much easier on the body than cut and hold ( been there done that). My last hold was  1 year because of the fear. I only started daily taper in April going slow but slow is better than stagnant. This is not a race or a competition. Go at your own pace we are all individuals with our own unique set of problems. Support of each other and encouragement is the name of the game on this thread

 

Luv n hugs

 

Gypsy

 

This is so true. I had to stop reading BB because it left me in total terror which increased my stress and directly impacted my taper. I was actually getting worse not because of the taper but because of the massive fear and stress I had. To be specific, after learning all about benzos within the forum and all about tapers and w/d plus my own round of acute w/d from irregular use of benzos as a PRN this was what happened to me:

 

I was terrified of taking the benzo

I was terrified of w/d

I was terrified of tapering because I didn't want to end up with bad w/d

I was terrified of all the things that could happen because other people were experiencing them and posting all about them even though 90% of them had to due with fast tapers and c/t which I was not part of that group.

 

All of that terror cause excessive stress where my body could no longer handle tapering and that amount of stress which did not subside while I was thinking about all of this. My only option was to stop reading and thinking about all this stuff and find things that relaxed me. Part of that was to actually stop tapering at one point because I could not handle the stress of it (psychological with stress contributing to w/d quite a bit) when I saw I was living in terror, I am not kidding. My friend and I were just talking about it yesterday and she was saying she could see how scared I was and how I just couldn't let it go back then. So I stopped everything taper and benzo related and held for months. During that hold I realized I could not deal with any of stress of it because the fear was just too much. I think at one point I decided I would just accept staying on the med and maybe cut a tiny bit here or there IF I FELT LIKE IT. That 'if I felt like it' was key for me. It was like I was finally being gentle with myself and accepting that I had to do what felt best for me no matter what most of the threads in the forum were saying.

 

During my time off from the taper I got preoccupied with other things and started relaxing. I went through a phase where I could feel my body needed to stretch because of all the tension that was bound up in it. I would just stretch in my bed (I wasn't active during all of this - I could barely do anything!) and feel all the tension unlike anything I ever felt before. Suffice to say that once I got away from all the scary stuff I started realizing that the scary stuff was more a problem than taking the med or the taper. Part of my issue was I had been in acute w/d before I even started my taper so that really impacted just how fearful I was because I had seen how bad it could get, but for that, I just realized that it was not something that was out of my control. I CAUSED IT and I know know better. I learned from it.

 

In the end, I threw out most of what I had read in the forum because that stuff was from people doing tapers too fast for them or c/t and all of them were scared too. What happens when you have a bunch of people in w/d getting together and dwelling on their w/d? Nothing good! It's like a festival of crazy because people in w/d (and I can say this having been in some bad w/d) are not generally reasonable or rational or even logical. Add in that mess that some of them were clearly in acute or borderline acute w/d, often from tapering too fast, but either unaware of it or refusing to admit it - well, they are the most reactive people you'll find. And a lot of them start their own fear propaganda without even realizing it or the harm it can do. Nothing good can come of that. And when you are reading it, it gets to you even if you don't share their views or beliefs. They still get into your head.

 

If you are going to be here, stay away from the w/d part of the forum and all the areas that promote the disturbing aspects of benzos and benzo tapers. It seems like those areas are filled with people who are tapering too fast for what their bodies can handle or are recovering from c/t or rapid tapers. And while doing that they are clearly experiencing fear, stress and anxiety from all this awareness of the scary stuff which only adds to their w/d. It's like adding oil to a fire. But the truth is that if you taper according to your w/d where if you pay attention to what you are experiencing symptoms wise and respond to that so you go slower if you are feeling more w/d then sure, your taper might be longer, but you will not end up with bad w/d that is stressing you more. You will not be part of that group dealing with the worst of it and none of what they experience will be true for you. If people weren't in such a hurry to get off this stuff, most of the suffering would be greatly diminished. But there is so much fear about being on benzos that it seems to me like a lot of people rush to get off them not realizing that this exasperates one of the biggest reasons why benzos are not good - the addiction factor and that getting off them can prove difficult for a portion of people. So they are doing the very thing you do not want to do in an attempt to avoid the very thing they want to avoid only what they are doing becomes the cause of the problem rather than the solution.

 

Tapering at a rate your body can handle is the key to success. Don't worry about any of what you have read. Tapering at a rate your body can handle makes most of what you have read irrelevant. It took me a very long time to realize that and to get over the fear propaganda I read in the forum from people who were in hell and didn't understand that for most people this can be avoidable.

 

I apologize for the length of this post. It's just that I always want to chime in whenever I see someone dealing with fear and stress over all of this having been through hell and back because of the same thing. We need more voices of reason and calm but in an addiction forum where the majority is experience w/d and some at very acute levels, that might not be easy to find.

 

semi rant over 

 

Morrigan

[[sh...]]

Can y'all please read the post from kris1967 on the titration board and help her.  I have to be with my family right now and she is reaching out for help and messaged me.  I'm ok but my family needs me I will explain later. I will try to check in tonight and help too.

[[bu...]]

 

Mercy! From all of my physiology and chemistry labs I had when I went back to graduate school at my old age (Lord only knows how I managed to complete the masters degree while being on boat-loads of K as well as other psychotropic meds), I learned one hard lesson...ALWAYS use glass. I do know that plastics mess with various solvents and meds, not to mention the toxins released by the plastic into the solution. For what it's worth...

 

Ultra, I store my liquid alprazolam and its dilution in glass bottles. But, after supper each day, I draw up my bedtime and the next day's alprazolam into 6 separate syringes, one for each dose. My son is there to check to make sure I do it right. I have serious cog fog. I need to do this when I know I can focus and get it right. The syringes have little caps. I can grab one and go if I need to leave the house. The med is in the syringe for 3-24 hours depending on the dose. Do you think keeping the med in the plastic syringe that long is risky? The manufacturer said not to do it. Another person on BB said she does it all the time.

  Storing your med in plastic syringes will not cause any problem.  And as discussed previously, storing for up to 24 hours (or even longer) will not cause any problem.  But I'm not sure I see any real advantage in using 6 syringes to store a day's doses.

[[an...]]

Will do Sharkey.  I hope everything is okay.

 

Anne

[[...]]

Your dose is 1.08mg K and you want to spread a 5% cut over 21 days.  5% of 1.08mg is .054mg.  Divided up into 21 parts is .0026mg per day.  Check!  And I can tell you that is a very reasonable cut at your dose.

 

Yes, I'm starting by shortening the hold time between cuts so it bumps it up a little faster. As a rule, my symptoms in a cut and hold would peak around day 10-14 (but at this cut they were minor) and would be gone by week three. I was holding that extra few days for 'security'. But I think with a MCT that would be smoother because it's not even 1% daily. I would suspect if there was an impact it would actually take longer to feel it since I wouldn't even arrive at the actual 5% until the 3rd week when I was ready for my next calculation. If I'm right, I wouldn't really experience w/d with an MCT or it would take longer to feel it (but that is adjusted for because my body is not reacting to a sudden larger cut).

 

At one point I was doing 5.5% with some low level w/d but I had a lot of stress, anxiety and fear of the taper as well as fear of the w/d and fear of taking the med - all that crazy stuff. So I think that now that I feel much calmer about the whole thing and have come to terms with all of it I might be able to get to that 5.5% and maybe even a little higher. I'll play it by ear. The good things is that MCT doesn't really blind side you. You can adjust as you go and hold rather than a big blindside from too big of a cut. You nip it in the bud with MCT before those sxs reach a higher level like with cut and hold method. That's my logic anyway.

 

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

[[mf...]]

Your dose is 1.08mg K and you want to spread a 5% cut over 21 days.  5% of 1.08mg is .054mg.  Divided up into 21 parts is .0026mg per day.  Check!  And I can tell you that is a very reasonable cut at your dose.

 

Yes, I'm starting by shortening the hold time between cuts so it bumps it up a little faster. As a rule, my symptoms in a cut and hold would peak around day 10-14 (but at this cut they were minor) and would be gone by week three. I was holding that extra few days for 'security'. But I think with a MCT that would be smoother because it's not even 1% daily. I would suspect if there was an impact it would actually take longer to feel it since I wouldn't even arrive at the actual 5% until the 3rd week when I was ready for my next calculation. If I'm right, I wouldn't really experience w/d with an MCT or it would take longer to feel it (but that is adjusted for because my body is not reacting to a sudden larger cut).

 

 

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

[[...]]

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

 

I think we always heal at the same rate and I assume that never changes.  That's what seems to make sense anyway.  So yes, it is that as the dose gets smaller the cut needs to be smaller.  "Percentage" seems to approximate this, but I don't think it is actually following this rule.

[[ga...]]

I just realized how close we are to Independence Day!!  I think im going to hold at 1ml on Friday so my Benzo Free day is on July 4th!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL  how cool is that 

 

I don't know whether to cry from happiness for you or from sadness for us. You're not leaving us, are you?!

 

If he ever left us, then we'd begin a huge man-hunt! Sharkey, you're on a 3-year contract with me (since I have so far to go).  You're not allowed to leave any of us    Hang tight, all!!!!!

 

You tell him, Ultra!! And at the rate I'm going, I may need that 3-year contract, too. Ugh!

 

You're THERE, Gardener!! Just keep rockin' it slowly and you'll be just dandy. I've learned two things: we all start somewhere, and slow is good. Like SG has said so often...go slow enough for the brain to heal so withdrawals won't be a problem (for the most part) and "recover" at the end will be mostly done. You're all good!!

 

Thanks for the reminder, Ultra. The tortoise wins the race! 

[[ga...]]

 

Mercy! From all of my physiology and chemistry labs I had when I went back to graduate school at my old age (Lord only knows how I managed to complete the masters degree while being on boat-loads of K as well as other psychotropic meds), I learned one hard lesson...ALWAYS use glass. I do know that plastics mess with various solvents and meds, not to mention the toxins released by the plastic into the solution. For what it's worth...

 

Ultra, I store my liquid alprazolam and its dilution in glass bottles. But, after supper each day, I draw up my bedtime and the next day's alprazolam into 6 separate syringes, one for each dose. My son is there to check to make sure I do it right. I have serious cog fog. I need to do this when I know I can focus and get it right. The syringes have little caps. I can grab one and go if I need to leave the house. The med is in the syringe for 3-24 hours depending on the dose. Do you think keeping the med in the plastic syringe that long is risky? The manufacturer said not to do it. Another person on BB said she does it all the time.

 

Hey Gardener. Well, I'm sure Sharkey, SG and Builder would have their opinions. I'm pretty weird and pretty sensitive when it comes to ANYTHING that can possibly mess with side effects, W/D's, etc. Personally, I'm sticking with glass because things have been good with that situation. BUT, if you use the syringe with no problems, then I'd say 'let er rip'. I also have read other places on BB that plastic was O.K. for them. I just know that it's not good for ME. Forgive me if I'm wrong (correct me here, Sharkey, if you know differently), but I heard and read other areas online that Valium is most effected by plastic. You have a small amount of med in each syringe, so I bet you'd be O.K. with plastic. Thoughts, SG, Builder, anyone?

 

From what I understand it's only certain types of plastic and. To the ones used for syringes etc.

I mean, some meds are kept IN syringes from production on. And what about the plastic liquid bags used in hospitals?

Also, Roxanne liquid Valium comes in a plastic bottle.

I remember there was this question on the Valium  thread last year so I recall it doesn't go for every kind of plastic...

 

I have my main supply in a glass jar . Don't want to store it in plastic for weeks or days . But I do fill my syringe for the next morning to put on my night stand and leave it overnight in the syringe.

But I would not be comfortable keeping my Valium in any kind of plastic for storage. Either way. 

 

That is interesting because the Roxane liquid Xanax comes in a glass bottle, but it does have a plastic dropper immersed in it. Of course, there are so many kinds of plastic. I'm think I may switch to tiny amber glass bottles (size of little extract bottles) that I can carry in my purse. It may be cheaper in the long run because the syringes wear out so quickly and I use 6 every day. I thought I would just order one big pack of syringes and that would be all I needed because I would be done in a few months.  .

[[Mo...]]

 

Mercy! From all of my physiology and chemistry labs I had when I went back to graduate school at my old age (Lord only knows how I managed to complete the masters degree while being on boat-loads of K as well as other psychotropic meds), I learned one hard lesson...ALWAYS use glass. I do know that plastics mess with various solvents and meds, not to mention the toxins released by the plastic into the solution. For what it's worth...

 

Ultra, I store my liquid alprazolam and its dilution in glass bottles. But, after supper each day, I draw up my bedtime and the next day's alprazolam into 6 separate syringes, one for each dose. My son is there to check to make sure I do it right. I have serious cog fog. I need to do this when I know I can focus and get it right. The syringes have little caps. I can grab one and go if I need to leave the house. The med is in the syringe for 3-24 hours depending on the dose. Do you think keeping the med in the plastic syringe that long is risky? The manufacturer said not to do it. Another person on BB said she does it all the time.

 

Hey Gardener. Well, I'm sure Sharkey, SG and Builder would have their opinions. I'm pretty weird and pretty sensitive when it comes to ANYTHING that can possibly mess with side effects, W/D's, etc. Personally, I'm sticking with glass because things have been good with that situation. BUT, if you use the syringe with no problems, then I'd say 'let er rip'. I also have read other places on BB that plastic was O.K. for them. I just know that it's not good for ME. Forgive me if I'm wrong (correct me here, Sharkey, if you know differently), but I heard and read other areas online that Valium is most effected by plastic. You have a small amount of med in each syringe, so I bet you'd be O.K. with plastic. Thoughts, SG, Builder, anyone?

 

From what I understand it's only certain types of plastic and. To the ones used for syringes etc.

I mean, some meds are kept IN syringes from production on. And what about the plastic liquid bags used in hospitals?

Also, Roxanne liquid Valium comes in a plastic bottle.

I remember there was this question on the Valium  thread last year so I recall it doesn't go for every kind of plastic...

 

I have my main supply in a glass jar . Don't want to store it in plastic for weeks or days . But I do fill my syringe for the next morning to put on my night stand and leave it overnight in the syringe.

But I would not be comfortable keeping my Valium in any kind of plastic for storage. Either way. 

 

That is interesting because the Roxane liquid Xanax comes in a glass bottle, but it does have a plastic dropper immersed in it. Of course, there are so many kinds of plastic. I'm think I may switch to tiny amber glass bottles (size of little extract bottles) that I can carry in my purse. It may be cheaper in the long run because the syringes wear out so quickly and I use 6 every day. I thought I would just order one big pack of syringes and that would be all I needed because I would be done in a few months.  .

 

I get my syringes with my liquid at the pharmacy..

Yes, you do use more of them Than I do. Mine last for mo this and I have about 5 that I alternate with .

I do notice that the outside lining of numbers fade.

[[ga...]]

Can y'all please read the post from kris1967 on the titration board and help her.  I have to be with my family right now and she is reaching out for help and messaged me.  I'm ok but my family needs me I will explain later. I will try to check in tonight and help too.

 

Will do! (Now y'all can resist making comments about the Princess of Paranoia rushing to help someone!  )

[[an...]]

Great job Gardner 

[[ga...]]

 

Mercy! From all of my physiology and chemistry labs I had when I went back to graduate school at my old age (Lord only knows how I managed to complete the masters degree while being on boat-loads of K as well as other psychotropic meds), I learned one hard lesson...ALWAYS use glass. I do know that plastics mess with various solvents and meds, not to mention the toxins released by the plastic into the solution. For what it's worth...

 

Ultra, I store my liquid alprazolam and its dilution in glass bottles. But, after supper each day, I draw up my bedtime and the next day's alprazolam into 6 separate syringes, one for each dose. My son is there to check to make sure I do it right. I have serious cog fog. I need to do this when I know I can focus and get it right. The syringes have little caps. I can grab one and go if I need to leave the house. The med is in the syringe for 3-24 hours depending on the dose. Do you think keeping the med in the plastic syringe that long is risky? The manufacturer said not to do it. Another person on BB said she does it all the time.

  Storing your med in plastic syringes will not cause any problem.  And as discussed previously, storing for up to 24 hours (or even longer) will not cause any problem.  But I'm not sure I see any real advantage in using 6 syringes to store a day's doses.

 

I have to dose Xanax 6 times a day (including one in the middle of the night). I seem to metabolize Xanax like lightening! I measure most straight from my bottle of concentrated liquid. After supper, I draw up all 6 doses into 6 separate syringes for the next day and have my son double check that I got them right according to my tapering schedule and with no bubbles. If I'm really a wreck from lack of sleep, he draws them up for me (while grumbling). Then I cap them and set them aside. My phone alarm beeps and I take my dose without having to measure. If I go out, I grab the correct syringe and carry it with me. I hate dosing 6 times a day. I can never forget I'm on the dang drug. But, at least I don't have to stop and measure 6 times. Once I tried to measure when I was in a  hurry and tired and I spilled the bottle on the kitchen counter! You should have seem me freak out! It was nearly a month's worth of med running across the counter. My son and I scraped it onto a plate with a spatula and then made a little funnel out of a foil muffin cup and poured it back into the bottle. And then I had my Xanax complete with little specks of whatever was on the counter.    But it still worked. 

[[ga...]]

Your dose is 1.08mg K and you want to spread a 5% cut over 21 days.  5% of 1.08mg is .054mg.  Divided up into 21 parts is .0026mg per day.  Check!  And I can tell you that is a very reasonable cut at your dose.

 

Yes, I'm starting by shortening the hold time between cuts so it bumps it up a little faster. As a rule, my symptoms in a cut and hold would peak around day 10-14 (but at this cut they were minor) and would be gone by week three. I was holding that extra few days for 'security'. But I think with a MCT that would be smoother because it's not even 1% daily. I would suspect if there was an impact it would actually take longer to feel it since I wouldn't even arrive at the actual 5% until the 3rd week when I was ready for my next calculation. If I'm right, I wouldn't really experience w/d with an MCT or it would take longer to feel it (but that is adjusted for because my body is not reacting to a sudden larger cut).

 

 

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

 

What I read is that the most damage is done to our receptors at the smaller doses. So as we get lower in our dose, we have more damage to undo. If you were drawing a graph of damage to receptors, the line would go up sharply at first and the more slowly and then level off. It would be a curved line, steeper and the beginning and then leveling off at the higher doses.

[[sh...]]

Your dose is 1.08mg K and you want to spread a 5% cut over 21 days.  5% of 1.08mg is .054mg.  Divided up into 21 parts is .0026mg per day.  Check!  And I can tell you that is a very reasonable cut at your dose.

 

Yes, I'm starting by shortening the hold time between cuts so it bumps it up a little faster. As a rule, my symptoms in a cut and hold would peak around day 10-14 (but at this cut they were minor) and would be gone by week three. I was holding that extra few days for 'security'. But I think with a MCT that would be smoother because it's not even 1% daily. I would suspect if there was an impact it would actually take longer to feel it since I wouldn't even arrive at the actual 5% until the 3rd week when I was ready for my next calculation. If I'm right, I wouldn't really experience w/d with an MCT or it would take longer to feel it (but that is adjusted for because my body is not reacting to a sudden larger cut).

 

 

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

 

What I read is that the most damage is done to our receptors at the smaller doses. So as we get lower in our dose, we have more damage to undo. If you were drawing a graph of damage to receptors, the line would go up sharply at first and the more slowly and then level off. It would be a curved line, steeper and the beginning and then leveling off at the higher doses.

 

:thumbsup:

[[ga...]]

Great job Gardner 

 

Would that be the part about my telling Kris to come over here where the math and dilution gurus will help her or my advice to her about the bf?! (Cuz I'm old I get to say stuff like that about bf's!)

[[Sh...]]

Jeff, Gardner, Anne, Gypsy and Morrigan,

Thank you for your voices of reason.  I know logically that a slow taper will eliminate most serious WDs. I have some tension in my face and jaws already, and at times my teeth are sensitive.  The dentist does not see signs of grinding, but I feel the muscles are tense and ache.  I wonder if this will get worse if I start the taper.  The extremely tense muscles in my neck and shoulders did resolve, so I know what sx can feel  like. This happened after I took a supplement in early May that triggered WD symptoms for a month. I have some insomnia too.  I just have to start the taper and see what happens. I am waiting to hear back on a job offer, and it will be stressful starting a new job, in a new industry and being in charge of people.  Then again, it may be a good distraction.  Anyway, I am all for making this as easy of a journey as possible and not joining into the "ain't it awful band wagon". It does not help at all.  Sure, give encouragement when somone has a rough spell, but I do not want to make it into a horror story share fest. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Have a great weekend!  Shaani

[[Mo...]]

Jeff, Gardner, Anne, Gypsy and Morrigan,

Thank you for your voices of reason.  I know logically that a slow taper will eliminate most serious WDs. I have some tension in my face and jaws already, and at times my teeth are sensitive.  The dentist does not see signs of grinding, but I feel the muscles are tense and ache.  I wonder if this will get worse if I start the taper.  The extremely tense muscles in my neck and shoulders did resolve, so I know what sx can feel  like. This happened after I took a supplement in early May that triggered WD symptoms for a month. I have some insomnia too.  I just have to start the taper and see what happens. I am waiting to hear back on a job offer, and it will be stressful starting a new job, in a new industry and being in charge of people.  Then again, it may be a good distraction.  Anyway, I am all for making this as easy of a journey as possible and not joining into the "ain't it awful band wagon". It does not help at all.  Sure, give encouragement when somone has a rough spell, but I do not want to make it into a horror story share fest. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Have a great weekend!  Shaani

 

Shaani, I didn't show signs of grinding but I clench my teeth during sleep. And I can feel it in my neck and shoulders. And also in the ears.

You could ask for a night mouth guard to be made . It helped me a lot.

[[mf...]]

For a long while when I was tapering imipramine and then during early part of my K taper I clenched something awful. Now I don't seem to be doing it. Even when I got hit with some stronger w/d a month ago because my stress was much lower, I didn't get back to doing it or not for long.

 

I'd recommend doing whatever things you can to relieve stress. Walking is something I really love or even a fun sci fi show or running around in skyrim (video game). Meditation as well and aiming for decent sleep. Every little bit counts! Easing stress now will help with a taper. Most definitely!

[[...]]

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

 

What I read is that the most damage is done to our receptors at the smaller doses. So as we get lower in our dose, we have more damage to undo. If you were drawing a graph of damage to receptors, the line would go up sharply at first and the more slowly and then level off. It would be a curved line, steeper and the beginning and then leveling off at the higher doses.

 

Yes.  Exactly.

 

The curve is very similar to these...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

[[...]]

First, I would like to thank Sharkey, Gardener99, Nova, Wecandothis16, and the rest of the BB that have been contributing lately- I read all your posts, so helpful. Well now I am down to .45mg/24hrs and am micro tapering every other day. I was wondering if any of you have noticed increased difficulty with short term memory while tapering. Like last night I was getting some spices together to cook with and had already taken the Old Bay Seasoning out of the cupboard, but I forgot I did and spent 3-4 min looking for it before noticing it on the countertop. This scares the sh-- out of me and it's embarrassing. I would think my ST memory would be getting better at this point, what is going on? I am scared I'm getting Alzheimers or something. I had no memory problems until this last year prior to getting off Xanax. It seems as I get closer to being off it I'm experiencing a worsening of symptoms at times, tinnitus, depression, insomnia, decreased motivation, fatigue, etc. Will my brain ever recover? Is this normal? I am very freaked out about my memory

                                                                                                                Thank-you all again from my heart,

                                                                                Have a great and safe Independence Day, Rose

[[ga...]]

I think we are always healing 24/7 so the question is how much is done in 24 hours?  Some small fraction of a percent of our receptors can be upregulated in a day.  So we want to make a cut that exposes fewer receptors than this amount.  If our daily cut is below this threshold we are healing faster than we are tapering and the body has no problem keeping up.  But be careful...as we go down the cut that accomplishes this gets steadily smaller.  Cuts get used up.

 

I don't think I understand this. What do you mean by 'cuts get used up'? Are you saying that at lower doses we don't heal at the same rate? Or are you speaking about the basic math where at some point .0026 would be a higher percent than it was before because you are on a lower daily dose than you were when you calculated .0026?

 

What I read is that the most damage is done to our receptors at the smaller doses. So as we get lower in our dose, we have more damage to undo. If you were drawing a graph of damage to receptors, the line would go up sharply at first and the more slowly and then level off. It would be a curved line, steeper and the beginning and then leveling off at the higher doses.

 

Yes.  Exactly.

 

The curve is very similar to these...

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/f3h1ao5ijfj93/papers#0yp2c8pbjrziaab

 

Oh, thanks, SG. That was exactly what I was trying to describe but had no idea how to make and post a graph.

[[ga...]]

First, I would like to thank Sharkey, Gardener99, Nova, Wecandothis16, and the rest of the BB that have been contributing lately- I read all your posts, so helpful. Well now I am down to .45mg/24hrs and am micro tapering every other day. I was wondering if any of you have noticed increased difficulty with short term memory while tapering. Like last night I was getting some spices together to cook with and had already taken the Old Bay Seasoning out of the cupboard, but I forgot I did and spent 3-4 min looking for it before noticing it on the countertop. This scares the sh-- out of me and it's embarrassing. I would think my ST memory would be getting better at this point, what is going on? I am scared I'm getting Alzheimers or something. I had no memory problems until this last year prior to getting off Xanax. It seems as I get closer to being off it I'm experiencing a worsening of symptoms at times, tinnitus, depression, insomnia, decreased motivation, fatigue, etc. Will my brain ever recover? Is this normal? I am very freaked out about my memory

                                                                                                                Thank-you all again from my heart,

                                                                                Have a great and safe Independence Day, Rose

 

 

Don't worry. That is all so typical of benzos. I use benzo-ification as a handy excuse for when I forget the most ridiculous things. Yesterday I put the salad dressing on the table and then hunted and hunted for it in the refrigerator and decided we must be out of it. I was about to make more, when my son pointed to it on the table. I had no recollection I had put it there. My son looks at me like I'm nuts and I just say, "Ah well, benzo-brain strikes again!" This sort of thing used to freak me out, but I guess I'm getting used to it. 

 

Many, many people experience worsening of symptoms as they get on lower and lower doses. Look at the chart SG posted and you will understand why. If the symptoms are really bothering you, you could make your solution more dilute and make smaller cuts.

 

Remember, benzo withdrawal causes anxiety. I am trying to not dwell on my worries because I know they could be completely fake (caused by Xanax, not my real brain). Tell yourself, "This worry is caused by Xanax withdrawal and is a sign my brain is healing." Seriously! When the brain feels stressed, it will up-regulate those GABA receptors to compensate. That's called healing. And then distract your brain with something else. I do puzzles, play word games on my mini, watch old TV shows on DVD, anything not stressful.

 

Yes, you will heal. Scientists are discovering more and more about how adaptable the brain is and how it can heal itself. Eat a healthy, anti-inflammatory diet and do moderate exercise to give it the fuel it needs to heal.

 

We Are Healing and We Can Do This!

 

Speaking of WeCanDoThis, where is that girl, anyway? Anybody hear from WeCanDoThis? Hopefully she is just enjoying a nice vacation somewhere.