Mentoring - those who are well (or better) reassuring those who struggle.

[[ja...]]

Please remind me that at 14 1/2 months off it is normal to still have cog fog and some anxiety

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[ra...]]

Nova, thank you so much for your thoughts. You helped me get up the motivation to call another therapist who I think might be more helpful. I've been trying to find someone who is more experienced with benzo addiction/recovery and so far, no luck, but I have only been through a few.

 

Acceptance is such an important thing to have (I was reading Recovery & Renewal again and she emphasizes that, too!) so I really appreciate you helping me to get there. I do what I can every day and try to feel good about it. Good luck to you in your healing journey. Every day, in every way, we are getting better and better.

 

Jackie, I think that is normal! I feel angry and depressed when I see success stories from people after only a few months. But according to Recovery & Renewal the average is 6-18 months. Let's try to be patient with our bodies.

[[Se...]]

Fliprain,

 

Thanks so much for starting this support group.  I've just stumbled upon it and will go back to read what you've posted so far.  I'm just about to start a blog, finally after all these months.  Coming up on my two year anniversary at the end of May and I'm looking for fresh ways to reinvigorate my spirit, it has been such a long, long journey.  My endurance is beginning to falter a bit lately even in the face of my first ever windows this past month.

 

I'm so self contained, and not in a good way.  I realize I need to reach out for help a bit more.  I never envisioned my healing would take this long when I stepped off the z-drug two years ago.  It seems like an odyssey at times.

 

I love your spirit and admire the work you've done to find your path.  I too long to really "love my life again before I die".  I feel lately as if I've abandoned my hopes and dreams in order to simply survive.  I want to thrive again.  Resurrect myself from the ashes.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and experiences and the fact that you are willing to share with us all.  That you are doing well is a light in the wilderness and is wildly encouraging to me.

 

 

SeekingSanity

 

You are not alone Seekingsanity.

 

I don't know if you had the same impression that I had when I first realized that it was the zopiclone drugs causing my problems.

I started reading about the horrors of benzos (and as a side note- the z drugs) almost as if they were not quite as bad.  Well as I and many others including you have experienced,  they are every bit as damaging.

 

I actually believe that they are worse in some areas as they are meant to be taken as a knock you out drug and they are very powerful.

 

I ended up taking z drugs every 4 hours throughout the day! Did myself a lot of damage.

 

I am 3 1/2 years off now.  Doing OK. My brain has returned and that is a big one.

Sleep is still quite an issue but it is improving slowly.

 

I know the feeling of longing to feel normal without having to work at it.

It happens more often for me now that I feel fine. Mostly the evenings

 

Hang in there

 

Start your blog. Build it and they will come.

 

Love Carol

 

Hi Carol & everyone.

 

Thanks so much for the encouragement - it really helped give me some wind in my sails yesterday.  I don't know why, but I hadn't really stumbled upon your blog and realized that you were so affected by the z-drugs.  There are so few of us on the boards in this particular boat.  I'll definitely look up your blog and start reading with a vengeance!

 

I was really encouraged this week when I was at my husband's specialist appointment and he spoke to my husband about the horrors patients were experiencing as a result of the benzo/z-drugs.  He specifically asked my husband, unprompted, if I had been on sleeping pills.  I wasn't in the exam room - how I wish I had been to ask him how he knows.  He is one of our most prominent dermatologists, a full professor of medicine at our large teaching hospital and med school and very, very smart.  Told my husband that it is akin to brain damage and that it can take a very long time to heal. 

 

This was unexpected affirmation for the difficulties we experience and the injury we've suffered.  The word is getting out, not fast enough and not in time to spare me the pain of having to go through the past few years but it is encouraging to hear a prominent doctor speak out.

 

Thanks so much for the shout out and I'm looking forward to starting the blog.  I've entitled it SeekingSanity 2.0 in my mind - I'm busily spec'ing out what my new, improved life will look like in my imagination.

 

Thanks so much for coming back to help, Fliprain.  You've been a real inspiration to me, even though I haven't had the chance to tell you that.  I love your spirit and your writings, they have really helped me in the darkest part of this journey.  I know you too have been in the wars.

 

 

SeekingSanity (2.0! to come ...)

[[el...]]

Well said, Nova...countless times I have been told to 'shake it off and get on with life' like I had a choice.  There are no choices here but heads down endurance and perseverance.

 

You were right on in your comments.

 

Ellen

[[ma...]]

Please remind me that at 14 1/2 months off it is normal to still have cog fog and some anxiety

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

 

Hello dear Jackie

 

Its quite normal to have cog fog and Anxiety this far out, keep going my friend its going to get better.

 

You have come a long way Jackie, recovery wont be too far away

 

Magrita

 

 

[[ja...]]

Thank you rupunzel!! Magrita, I'm hanging in there but today is rough. After I posted earlier,  thoracic back hit real hard, rib pain , swallowing and breathing difficulties too. I haven't had the breathing and swallowing pain in a long time. My midsection feels like its in a vice. Maybe this will be the last time, I can wish I just felt like hearing someone say they went through this and it finally stopped for good. Thank you!!!!!

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[Ca...]]

Nova, thank you so much for your thoughts. You helped me get up the motivation to call another therapist who I think might be more helpful. I've been trying to find someone who is more experienced with benzo addiction/recovery and so far, no luck, but I have only been through a few.

 

Acceptance is such an important thing to have (I was reading Recovery & Renewal again and she emphasizes that, too!) so I really appreciate you helping me to get there. I do what I can every day and try to feel good about it. Good luck to you in your healing journey. Every day, in every way, we are getting better and better.

 

Jackie, I think that is normal! I feel angry and depressed when I see success stories from people after only a few months. But according to Recovery & Renewal the average is 6-18 months. Let's try to be patient with our bodies.

 

When you have been around longer,  you learn to take the early (read: first real feelings of wellness) success stories with an air of knowing that it is usually the first euphoria of feeling well enough to participate in life again. They are more a statement of "it does get better" rather than "I am healed!"

Many many times people post one,  then later either have the normal setbacks and repost about it.

Some people come back quite a long time later and give updates saying "Gee I thought I was healed but it keeps getting better."

 

All good news.

 

It seems that healing has its own agenda. Never quick enough for us.

 

Love Carol

[[ma...]]

Thank you rupunzel!! Magrita, I'm hanging in there but today is rough. After I posted earlier,  thoracic back hit real hard, rib pain , swallowing and breathing difficulties too. I haven't had the breathing and swallowing pain in a long time. My midsection feels like its in a vice. Maybe this will be the last time, I can wish I just felt like hearing someone say they went through this and it finally stopped for good. Thank you!!!!!

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

 

That's how it was for me Jackie, I thought I was going backwards,  old symptoms returning.  You could be right, this may be the last big wave. Whatever happens, your going to come through it.

 

Stay as positive as you can, you will get your life back eventually!!

 

Magrita

[[ja...]]

:smitten: Thank you!!

[[ra...]]

When you have been around longer,  you learn to take the early (read: first real feelings of wellness) success stories with an air of knowing that it is usually the first euphoria of feeling well enough to participate in life again. They are more a statement of "it does get better" rather than "I am healed!"

Many many times people post one,  then later either have the normal setbacks and repost about it.

Some people come back quite a long time later and give updates saying "Gee I thought I was healed but it keeps getting better."

 

All good news.

 

It seems that healing has its own agenda. Never quick enough for us.

 

Love Carol

 

You're so right Carol! I could have been on here after the first four months posting a success story and feeling euphoric, but I didn't know that my toughest times were still ahead (and I had done enough reading to know that a few months was probably a little too soon to expect to be healed). This has been a long wave but at least I did have a window at some point.

 

"Gee I thought I was healed but it keeps getting better":  These are some of my favorites! It would be amazing to see more improvement even after I feel functional again.

 

Healing certainly takes its own time but today has been less painful than the other days. I'm grateful for that. Thanks to all of you for staying in the struggle 

[[pr...]]

My midsection feels like its in a vice.

 

jackie,

 

my midsection and hips still feel like its in a vice. it's easing up some but not fast enough. doubt it will be this long for you. i don't know why some of us take longer than others? anyway, just wanted to let you know you're not alone with that symptom. sometimes it feels like my whole body is in a vice from head to toe. very uncomfortable and i look forward to the day of my release.

 

pretty

[[MT...]]

Well said, Nova...countless times I have been told to 'shake it off and get on with life' like I had a choice.  There are no choices here but heads down endurance and perseverance.

 

You were right on in your comments.

 

Thanks again for all you folks are writing. Right now I feel like all I can do is keep my head down and endure. There's nothing else left for any more fight. I'm trying not to let how I feel hurt the others in my life and it takes so much effort. Right now all I can do is sit. There's so much suffering on BB but also so much courage.

 

Ellen

[[ja...]]

Awww Pretty, thank you for the encouragement. I'm sorry you feel this in your whole body, it really does suck. I don't really understand this whole process and why some can take benzo's and come off like nothing ever happened. No matter we are nearing the end. I just keep believing it will end soon. At the same time when I'm feeling like I am today I'm just glad that I have this forum of others who get it and understand what I'm saying is real. Wishing you healing Pretty.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[pr...]]

Awww Pretty, thank you for the encouragement. I'm sorry you feel this in your whole body, it really does suck. I don't really understand this whole process and why some can take benzo's and come off like nothing ever happened. No matter we are nearing the end. I just keep believing it will end soon. At the same time when I'm feeling like I am today I'm just glad that I have this forum of others who get it and understand what I'm saying is real. Wishing you healing Pretty.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

 

jackie,

 

i actually used to be one of those ones who could come off the benzo's pretty easily. well, usually the withdrawal lasted about a month and then i'd be back to good. this time, is sure isn't. i have to wonder if they're making them stronger or differently or is it's just too many cold turkey's for a body to handle?

[[be...]]

Awww Pretty, thank you for the encouragement. I'm sorry you feel this in your whole body, it really does suck. I don't really understand this whole process and why some can take benzo's and come off like nothing ever happened. No matter we are nearing the end. I just keep believing it will end soon. At the same time when I'm feeling like I am today I'm just glad that I have this forum of others who get it and understand what I'm saying is real. Wishing you healing Pretty.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

 

 

jackie,

 

i actually used to be one of those ones who could come off the benzo's pretty easily. well, usually the withdrawal lasted about a month and then i'd be back to good. this time, is sure isn't. i have to wonder if they're making them stronger or differently or is it's just too many cold turkey's for a body to handle?

 

Pretty, I have wondered the same thing. I definitely was not this ill in my first withdrawal 10yrs ago...took xanax for 13 yrs and was healed in two yrs....6 yrs. later took 50 ativan in 3 yrs....it doesn't make much sense..of course none of this does.

I'm assuming it's kindling.

[[pr...]]

Awww Pretty, thank you for the encouragement. I'm sorry you feel this in your whole body, it really does suck. I don't really understand this whole process and why some can take benzo's and come off like nothing ever happened. No matter we are nearing the end. I just keep believing it will end soon. At the same time when I'm feeling like I am today I'm just glad that I have this forum of others who get it and understand what I'm saying is real. Wishing you healing Pretty.

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

 

 

jackie,

 

i actually used to be one of those ones who could come off the benzo's pretty easily. well, usually the withdrawal lasted about a month and then i'd be back to good. this time, is sure isn't. i have to wonder if they're making them stronger or differently or is it's just too many cold turkey's for a body to handle?

 

Pretty, I have wondered the same thing. I definitely was not this ill in my first withdrawal 10yrs ago...took xanax for 13 yrs and was healed in two yrs....6 yrs. later took 50 ativan in 3 yrs....it doesn't make much sense..of course none of this does.

I'm assuming it's kindling.

 

beulah,

 

yeah, it's got to be the kindling.

[[Fl...]]

I love how this thread has taken a life of its own. Thank you so much to everyone who contributes. There is so much wisdom here. Welcome to the new joiners and followers. Our aim is cohesion and community and unflagging support. Our goal is for weary uncertain people to come here for a bit of a rest and reassurance and it looks like it's happening. I'm very grateful.

 

We are, after all, herding animals. We belong in a group and especially in a group that protects the weaker among us. There have been many times where I have been smack in the middle of the group where the most protection is given. Now I feel strong enough to stand on the outside, face the elements and fiercely protect those in the middle. In time, the ones in the middle right now will be strong enough to move to the outside and stand strong.

 

I do not often go searching for old symptoms, but Jackie, your simple request sent me back in my journal to December 2013 when I was 14 months off. I found this entry. You might take comfort from it.

 

Today was good, not great. I functioned just fine on the outside. On the inside I feel like I have been scorched. My whole insides feel like my mouth feels when I've burned it on pizza. There is a trembling anxiety that seems about ready to rumble loose. It seems chemical, not situational. My back feels twisted and crooked and one shoulder seems locked tight. It's hard to remember just last week when I felt so loose like rubber. Today I'm a board.  My  brain freezes at  the worst possible times. Its hard to imagine it is still benzos.

 

That was then and I'm no longer feeling those things. I have a little arthritis here and there but no residual muscle tightness. I did yoga this week and was as flexible as anyone there, more than most. My arthritis doc says the key to living well is to maintain a strong core and to keep the flexor tendons stretched, so yoga is excellent for both.

 

I am finding life so exciting! I've been absolutely grace-of-god-stroke-of-luck serendipitously dropped right smack down into the community of recovery. More and more opportunities are opening up for me and it is life giving to offer what I have learned in this journey to others. I feel like I'm in Flow some of that time, and during those truly sacred moments, I do not feel discomfort of any kind. If I had a lot of money and didn't have to work, I'd be volunteering in the recovery community until I couldn't anymore.

 

There was a time just 4 years ago, where I didn't commit suicide only because I didn't want to hurt my family. Today, I would live forever if I could. It seems like there is not enough time to crowd in all the lovely things, all the touching of souls, all the grateful looks and words, all the sighs of relief, all the hope, all the shared understanding, all the joy. My greatest desire is to live life until I die and to be engaged, imaginative, involved and connected right up to the last minute. I want to see the beauty in every situation and I believe it is there. Even the benzo journey has its beauty. Right now it probably looks like a crappy dirty piece of dog doodoo to most of you, but I promise that when you emerge from this everything is so sweet that it's practically indescribable.

 

Wasn't it Ghandi who said, "My life is my statement"? That is my fondest desire.

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

Flip, you're amazing.

 

You seem at peace in a profound way.

 

Thank you for sharing that with us. 

[[ja...]]

 

I love how this thread has taken a life of its own. Thank you so much to everyone who contributes. There is so much wisdom here. Welcome to the new joiners and followers. Our aim is cohesion and community and unflagging support. Our goal is for weary uncertain people to come here for a bit of a rest and reassurance and it looks like it's happening. I'm very grateful.

 

We are, after all, herding animals. We belong in a group and especially in a group that protects the weaker among us. There have been many times where I have been smack in the middle of the group where the most protection is given. Now I feel strong enough to stand on the outside, face the elements and fiercely protect those in the middle. In time, the ones in the middle right now will be strong enough to move to the outside and stand strong.

 

I do not often go searching for old symptoms, but Jackie, your simple request sent me back in my journal to December 2013 when I was 14 months off. I found this entry. You might take comfort from it.

 

Today was good, not great. I functioned just fine on the outside. On the inside I feel like I have been scorched. My whole insides feel like my mouth feels when I've burned it on pizza. There is a trembling anxiety that seems about ready to rumble loose. It seems chemical, not situational. My back feels twisted and crooked and one shoulder seems locked tight. It's hard to remember just last week when I felt so loose like rubber. Today I'm a board.  My  brain freezes at  the worst possible times. Its hard to imagine it is still benzos.

 

That was then and I'm no longer feeling those things. I have a little arthritis here and there but no residual muscle tightness. I did yoga this week and was as flexible as anyone there, more than most. My arthritis doc says the key to living well is to maintain a strong core and to keep the flexor tendons stretched, so yoga is excellent for both.

 

I am finding life so exciting! I've been absolutely grace-of-god-stroke-of-luck serendipitously dropped right smack down into the community of recovery. More and more opportunities are opening up for me and it is life giving to offer what I have learned in this journey to others. I feel like I'm in Flow some of that time, and during those truly sacred moments, I do not feel discomfort of any kind. If I had a lot of money and didn't have to work, I'd be volunteering in the recovery community until I couldn't anymore.

 

There was a time just 4 years ago, where I didn't commit suicide only because I didn't want to hurt my family. Today, I would live forever if I could. It seems like there is not enough time to crowd in all the lovely things, all the touching of souls, all the grateful looks and words, all the sighs of relief, all the hope, all the shared understanding, all the joy. My greatest desire is to live life until I die and to be engaged, imaginative, involved and connected right up to the last minute. I want to see the beauty in every situation and I believe it is there. Even the benzo journey has its beauty. Right now it probably looks like a crappy dirty piece of dog doodoo to most of you, but I promise that when you emerge from this everything is so sweet that it's practically indescribable.

 

Wasn't it Ghandi who said, "My life is my statement"? That is my fondest desire.

 

 

Thank you Flip, you are so thoughtful to go back and look up your old sx's to help me and others so that we can keep going forward and have your experience to hold unto, I'm so grateful!!!!

 

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[Ca...]]

Dear Friends,

  I am so grateful this thread was started. The encouragement and spiritual touches are just what my weary soul needs. Thank you Flip....you created a gift for all of us.

 

  You describe a life so like the one I write in my vision pages....a life where beauty and joy is my foundation. I came from that and I will find it again. This darkness is temporary...this thread reminds me of that.

 

  Jackie...sending you love. You will pass through this like you have hundreds of times before. It is nothing new....it is the length of the journey that makes it so difficult. The unpredictable nonlinear pattern is exhausting.

 

  I am near the end of a three year taper and have been very symptomatic. I think it is good I did not know how long this would take when I started. It has taken every bit of strength I can find....I thank all of my friends here. You inspire me every day.

 

Love and healing,

 

Carita 

 

 

[[No...]]

Flip ... thank you for more "good news" ... and yes, as you describe, this is what communities, families, are capable of ... bless you for reminding us ... 

[[Lo...]]

Thanks you for starting this thread. What is still torturing me even though I try to distract is that I had an amazing chance to figure out I was in wd last Thanksgiving holiday. 4 days without a single pill, some weird DP/DR sxs, lots of crying and sweats, but that was all. I keep kicking myself for not just talking a leave of absence right then & there and started healing.

 

Now, the dose I am at seems much more hopeless, I get very little relief from ativan, and although I'm trying as much as I can,  I feel way more tired, and have a lot more sxs. I think the irregular dosing and sheer panic I got caught in Dec/Jan will prolong my healing significantly. I worry about not having enough resources (financial and otherwise) to weather the storm. I have made some headway recently (got below the 2mg/day loraz barrier), but still feel kind of dumb/angry at myself I didn't catch it last November.

 

Finding good Dr. support for a valium c/o has been hard and I am going next week to see 2 of them. Wish me luck.

But for someone who was proud to have a higher than average IQ and a healthy EQ, I feel like such a dummy. The cog fog reminds me of my mistakes every day, and I just want to cry, cry and cry. I knew that benzos weren't exactly innocent pills, but somehow never educated myself on how bad wd can be and how potent lorazepam was. They were all bunch of pams (oxazepam, diazepam, lorazepam, temazepam), so I never bothered to look at loraz actually strength. 0.5mg seemed like a low dose. These feelings of self-hate are strong, and though I keep forgiving myself, I keep getting pounded by them again. How did you deal with those???

[[bo...]]

Hullo...can I pull up a chair?

Only four months in to my taper, and my head is a ball of very tangled wool!

Thank you Nova for telling me about this thread..

Bed time for me 'down under'  as we head into sunday...xx

[[Fl...]]

Bozobertie, it is for you and people just like you that we maintain this thread so, by all means, pull up a chair!

 

Carita, this does take every ounce we have and, sometimes, we aren't very graceful about it. It's helpful to have real life support and, in the good times, to let those people know how grateful you are to them. Mr. Flip was just a rock for me. I'm only now realizing just how solid he was. He did the best thing he could possibly do; he guarded me and kept me safe while I healed. My outcome would be different without him. So I hope you have good boots on the ground support.

 

LorazepamFree, you are beating yourself up needlessly. Changing course last Thanksgiving probably wouldn't have made much difference anyway. It takes time and lots of it for those of us who are here. I think, in time, science will discover some of us should not ever take some drugs, but for now, please know the self recrimination only wastes valuable energy and your energy is precious in this fight. It's important that you love yourself and thank your body every day for the healing it is doing. Treat yourself like you would treat a confused child. Be tender and kind to yourself and a little bit indulgent.

 

Your subliminal mantra is important. I can't overstate this. What you tell yourself becomes either a tool for recovery or a stumbling block. It those most difficult moments, what you tell yourself will either give you peace or it will cause you anguish. It seems like you might be in the anguish category right now. 

 

Most of all, this is not your fault. Like something NovaScotia said in his most excellent post a few pages back that blaming the victim is ridiculous and counterproductive. I'll go find that post and repost it below because it is worth reading again and again.

 

On the topic of IQ and EQ, I want you to know that whatever the deficiencies you perceive, they are not permanent. In fact, it is my belief that your EQ will go up significantly once you have healed. Mine has. I'm far less self centered and more other-focused than I've ever been. I see that in others, too.

 

My psychologist arranged a neuropsyc exam right before my taper ended. I was at .5 mg Valium that day. It was an 8 hour day of testing and I had had a rare 6 hours of sleep the night before, so felt better than usual. My performance on some parts was abysmal, particularly executive functioning. There was one little test where they asked me to name as many words as I could think of that began with the letter S. They gave me one minute. I came up with three. Three words in a minute. This put me in the lower 6th percentile. Two years later, I repeated the test and the outcome was entirely different. I was in the 80th and 90th percentile of every test they gave me except for recreating patterns with blocks. That one was beyond me. Despite all of this, my IQ score was only three points lower the first time around, which is within the margin of error.

 

All that to say I think your perception of your capability is probably faulty and it will change over time. Please try to be at least as kind to yourself as you would be to a spouse who got caught in a medical delimma. This simply is not your fault. Period. Your internal dialog can slow or speed your healing. You may as well opt for self care. 

 

Mindseeker, I really do have peace most days. In thinking back on all of this, I see where I have had the benefit of being in therapy throughout the process. I probably don't even know yet what a gift that has been. Even during the times I was too confused to think logically, at least I was taught to monitor my self talk.

 

OK, a most excellent day to us. It's Farmers Market day! Locally grown cucumbers, beets, spinach, asparagus at least are in my future. I'm developing relationships with the vendors and rather than being way-too-scary-to-talk-to-people, I'm finding joy at moving among the booths and chatting.

 

I'll repost NovaScotias post.

[[Fl...]]

Rapunzelblue  ... "them telling me that I have to work at it if I want to be well" ... hmmm ... to them that have told me the same thing I give a very stout and heartfelt ... bah humbug ...

 

For me, this is classic "blaming the sufferer for their suffering" ... otherwise known as re-traumatizing the victim ... it is cruel and unconscionable for anyone supposedly practicing the therapeutic arts ... my comment to these folks who I have experienced along the way is a heartfelt and resounding "you're fired" ... followed by my dignified and skippy-step exit from the room ... never to return ...

 

We are all doing and being the best we can day to day ... and I have had to learn this lesson over and over again ... to cut myself some slack ... my being sick is a reflection of where I am right now ... it is not a character flaw, some mental or emotional defect, or some excuse ... it is a fact of my life right now ... I am sick ... and it took me a couple of years in this process to get the message to start acting like it ... my pretending that I could "overcome" this journey of recovery by "acting" as if I were well was not helpful and certainly not compassionate towards myself ...

 

This fallacy of magical thinking which I acquired and practiced for many years turned out to be a great disservice to myself ... and it was very hard work to let it go ... for me it belongs on the dust heap of pseudo-therapy ...

 

For me this is where I am right now ... having some good days ... having some lousy days ... all the while recovering/healing ... doing what I can as I can ... and yes there is so much more I "want" to do ... and in the full measure of time I will do them ... just not today ...

 

Be Well ... 

Bump