Methylation Cycle dysfunction a possible part of benzo withdrawal picture

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi Selah

Smiff,

 

Selah, for Spectracell nutritional testing, you do not need to drop your supplements prior to testing. They have a unique process using white blood cells to look at "stored" nutritional status as opposed to urinary excretion.

As for accuracy between Genova versus Spectracell, I'm unsure. They report similarly on some AA's but differently on a few of the B's and on the minerals.

 

Love your "blowing smoke" comment. I experienced the same with one of my practitioners. Argh.

 

How have you been feeling? 

[[Se...]]

Hi Marija and Smiff -

I want to respond with my 23and me results to ask for help but have been overwhelmed to even look at it.

 

I came across this article and need a REALLY INTELLIGENT brain to help me decider it.

I have diabetes type 1, I am smart (not trying to toot my horn but I think a lot of us on here are) my glutathione is shot. AND I have GAD enzyme issues - mostly they are green but 3 yellows and a red.

Is there anybody I can talk to. Marija is your doc knowledgable or willing to do phone calls. This one article sums up the bits and pieces I have been noticing.

 

http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/how-to-increase-gaba-and-balance-glutamate/

 

Thanks. Will try to get to listing my other results in a couple days when not so overwhelmed. Blessings!

Selah

[[Sm...]]

Hi Selah

 

From what I've heard 3 heterozygous and 1 homozygous GAD isn't particularly problematic. From my understanding that is well within normal range.

 

But as that article points out there are a great many things that can relate to glutamate and gaba balance besides GAD. Even if your GAD enzymes aren't particularly bad though, they would clearly be under pressure in a situation like benzo wd.

 

I agree your best bet is to find someone to talk to who can help you figure this out. Red Mountain Clinic/Beyond MTHFR does phone and skype consultations. They might be worth a go?

 

Hope you feel better soon

4mgs was a hard spot for me too

 

love

Smiff

[Guest [Ma...]]

Hi Selah,

 

I agree with Smiff regarding the GAD enzymes.

Glutathione (glycine, glutamate, Cysteine )levels will take a hit during withdrawal. I supplement with cysteine and glycine to try and build. Whey powder too, but cautiously.

 

Check the site www.pheonixrising.net  Some very bright people there that can help glean important information for your tests. If you post your 23andme results, I've found a few senior members more helpful and concise then my physician.

 

Hugs,

Maria

[[Sm...]]

I do reckon gluthathione is a thing

I can't imagine dealing with glycine. Mag glycinate was enough for a wave.

I've used NAC and liposomal gluthathione to get the levels up. Once I wasn't overly reactive anymore I could use some whey powder too.

 

I'm doing better than ever now. Happily healing 

[Guest [Ma...]]

That's great news, Smiff!

 

 

[[wh...]]

I wish I would have been able to understand this thread the first time I saw it months ago. I continue to be shocked by how pervasive glutamate is. It's in not only almost all processed foods, but also most supplements, cosmetics, personal care products, and cleaning products. Waiting for "Excitotoxins; The Taste that Kills" to arrive.

 

Use gloves when washing dishes and cleaning, there are toxins in every dishwashing liquid and cleaning product in my house. And I thought by cleaning with Dawn and vinegar was an improvement, until I discovered what's in Dawn.

 

I now know why I took a nosedive every time I tried to use supplements as well. I have checked, and every single one of them contains offending ingredients. The most shocking one was "Natural Calm" magnesium supplement: it's a great big bottle of citric acid.

 

 

[[Co...]]

Do we need a physician to order the spectracell test? Or can we do it ourselves?

[[Se...]]

Yes u need a physician. Not sure about NutrEval. I thought you could order maybe through Amy Yaskos site but can't remember.

The genetics test for 23and me you don't need a physician for. Just order online $99 at 23andme.com. They send you a spit tube. You spit in and send back they email you the raw data.

Getting interpretation is another story though.

Blessings

Selah

[[Se...]]

Just saw this article on a newly found probiotic strain that boosts glutathione production.

 

http://suzycohen.com/articles/me3_glutathione_lactobacillus_fermentum/

 

Just thought was interesting.

 

"L. Fermentum ME-3"

 

Blessings

Selah

[[ed...]]

I wish I would have been able to understand this thread the first time I saw it months ago. I continue to be shocked by how pervasive glutamate is. It's in not only almost all processed foods, but also most supplements, cosmetics, personal care products, and cleaning products. Waiting for "Excitotoxins; The Taste that Kills" to arrive.

 

Use gloves when washing dishes and cleaning, there are toxins in every dishwashing liquid and cleaning product in my house. And I thought by cleaning with Dawn and vinegar was an improvement, until I discovered what's in Dawn.

 

I now know why I took a nosedive every time I tried to use supplements as well. I have checked, and every single one of them contains offending ingredients. The most shocking one was "Natural Calm" magnesium supplement: it's a great big bottle of citric acid.

 

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to add something to the above bolded comment.

 

I contacted Natural Vitality, maker of Natural Calm, and asked about the presence of free glutamate in their citric acid. Here was their response: "Hi Ed! You are correct, our citric acid is derived from non-gmo sugar beets and therefore does not contain any free-glutamic acid (MSG). Thanks for your question!"  Take that FWIW.

[[Fa...]]

This point is extremely interesting...

I'm a MTHFR C677T Heterozygous and also had small gut dysbiosis so I think I may be having some troubles with methylation.

I'll try to take a multivitaminic supplement that includes processed forms of folates, B6 and B12. It may help my body a lot!

I was also considering Daosin since I seem to be a little histamine intolerant.

I was suggested IV glutathione as well but I really don't want to have injections done!  Maybe N-acetilcysteine and selenium will answer the purpose as well.

[[bu...]]

Hey there Smiff.

 

I've been reading through this and a couple of other sites as well. One thing that I'm still not understanding is if you are saying that you believe that Methylation Cycle dysfunction is the cause of benzodiazepine withdrawal or if you are saying that benzo w/d is deregulating the MC. One thing that I'm sort of worried about is that some people may end up thinking that benzo withdrawal is something that you can go out and get DNA testing for and then it can be "cured".

 

There's a few problems with this. 1) DNA coding turns out to have very little utility in either treating or prognosticating disease with the exception of a very few conditions. That's why the human genome project ended up as being more or less a bust (far more questions were raised than answered) and wound up spawning the current interest in epigenetics. This is particularly true when it comes to the complexity of something like the Methylation Cycle, and while the folks that are offering testing and cures based on the results may be sincere, the scientific backing is well.. this than robust here. 2) While there does appear to be a great deal of overlap in the symptoms claimed to be caused by MC dysfunction and benzo withdrawal, there are enough things that are unique to benzo withdrawal that make them appear to be separate syndromes. Even if we are looking for something that accounts for excess glutamate, the current theory of downregulation of gaba receptors and upregulation of glutamate receptors directly related to benzo use seems to be a far more parsimonious explanation. 3) If supplements and dietary changes are needed to correct MC dysregulation, then it becomes unclear why the vast majority of people recover from benzo withdrawal regardless of diet and then we also have the problem of supplements revving up withdrawal symptoms rather than relieving them.

 

My larger concern is that people might feel like they need expensive specialists, testing, supplements and food to recover when if fact, what is needed more than anything is time and a supportive environment. Just my thoughts 

 

I agree with you jjrosk!

 

Genetic testing can be beneficial. Nowadays you can be tested to see which psych meds are best to take depending on your genetic expressions. I only recently got my genetic test done and I wish I had done it sooner. (five years I have been struggling with these meds). My test revealed much about the psych meds that I was put on and ultimately didn't do well on. Should've never been prescribed for me. I ended up in the hospital with Prozac and it is one of the psych meds that I should not be taking based on my CYP gene expression's. There are also many opioids I cannot take or take at full dose.  I also have methylation issues. However now that I am in recovery, I simply cannot take the supplements. It seems pretty clear to me now after I've read perseverance's blogs here on benzo buddies, that the nerve pathways are trying to repair themselves. Although we might need some of the supplements, we simply can't take them 24 seven. They tend to wear off quickly especially magnesium and B 12 simply through exercise or being out in the sun (getting vitamin D  or by taking a D supplement which uses the magnesium to process the D) etc.. when they are no longer there to calm the nerves down especially magnesium, the calcium channel is once again free to float into an over excited state! Each time we attempt this, especially me if feels like kindling. Withdrawal symptoms are sometimes worse than before.   Also you need to see a specialist, function medical doctor etc. who is appropriately trained to deal with methylation issues.  There is a very difficult balance required with the supplements, and yes they are expensive, and if not monitored symptoms develop like anxiety and depression and pain etc.  Intererstingly enough, if you find the right specialist they will tell you (unless you have some major issues) to start with diet and lifestyle first.  Hmmmm....

 

Give yourself time, eat better unprocessed food and drink water.

 

 

Butterfly65

[[wa...]]

Labcorp only indicates MTHFR with mutations C677T and A1298C for me.  I guess I got a double whammy.  The lab doesn't indicate the following:

 

Homozygous: the same gene passed on from both parents-  can occur if both pass on the 677 mutation, or the 1298 mutation.

Heterozygous: one parent passed on the 677 mutation or the 1298 mutation but the other parent passed on a normal gene.

Compound Heterozygous: one parent passed on the 677 mutation and the other passed on the 1298 mutation.

 

 

Does it matter how one gets both mutations?  W

[[Po...]]

Bump

[Guest [Sk...]]

https://www.judytsafrirmd.com/histamine-methylation-and-mthfr/ 

 

so many things are affected during withdrawal

and it takes some time( often months ) to rebalance our systems

 

 

[[Ba...]]

I have to admit I don't understand this... but do know I have a MTHFR gene that is corrupted, in fact, two of them.

 

Does that mean methyl folate might help me?

Or does that mean don't take any additional vitamins?

 

What sort of dr. knows this type of thing?

 

thanks.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[[...]]

I have to admit I don't understand this... but do know I have a MTHFR gene that is corrupted, in fact, two of them.

 

Does that mean methyl folate might help me?

Or does that mean don't take any additional vitamins?

 

What sort of dr. knows this type of thing?

 

thanks.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Hi BarbaraAve,

 

I have one copy of the MTHFR problem.

 

Watch these videos

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/?tab=wm&ogbl#inbox/KtbxLthpxVxnbfqFBPsBGzNctmstbjnJMg?projector=1

 

I can tell you, I have been taking folate and methyl B12 in the mornings and feel better.  Been doing this for a few days.  I also think the special form of B6 called Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate with zinc at night might be helping me sleep.

 

This multivitamin has them all but not in big amounts so I am also taking separate supplements directly to get a little more folate and Methyl B12 and B6 called Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate.  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FYD2CP8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Note, I only take the B6/zinc at night.  If I take the other stuff at night, it gives me energy and hard to sleep, so I take the other stuff in the morning.

[[Ba...]]

Bob,

Thanks.

So you are taking 3 vites/z?

 

Yes I know double problems with my mthfr gene but no clue on any other ones.

I think I hve sm bottle of methylcobalamine or one other... so those are when you want energy (get up)?

i have regular zinc can take at night. 

 

Thanks for the info!!

[[Ba...]]

Bob,

 

the first link talks about methalyation, but 2nd one is just an add for google..///?

 

Thanks.

[[Ba...]]

Bob, maybe ai will just pm you.  Wondering if the b6 is a separate pill, or you are just takiing that general vitamin?  You siad you took the b6 at night so was wondering, tho...    after the horrendous time I've had certainly think this orth trying.

The 23 and me or genetics...  I have heard don't give your real name as the company just, well, sells your iniformation.  what do you think?

 

thanks.

[[Ca...]]

This is 100%. I spent a fortune getting tests done through a mast cell specialist and it PROVES everything you’re saying. 
 

Benzo withdrawal turned on my CBS and MTHFR genes and now I have several severe autoimmune diseases. I have spent months trying to figure all of this out and your breakdown is exactly correct. 
 

Now to figure out how to fix it. 

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Ca...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.