Help with starting liquid taper from Xanax and adding Valium

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

Thanks again for your help. It really means a lot! Yes, I will take your advice and hold for now. In fact, I just realized, that after my up dosing for the doctor a weeks ago , I have really only been on .75 for 3 days ( and one of the days was .5!) On wed of last week, I started my first 'cut".625. So, as of today (sunday) it's really only been 4 days since my first cut! It seems like forever! But it has only been 4 days, with today being the 5th day. In hind sight I probably should have done the whole 7 days at .75 (last sunday to this sunday) and THEN started with a cut. But I didn't. Probably because, as I've said, before my crazy week with up dosing twice and attempting ( wrongly) a c/o test with Valium ( I didn't know what to do yet) I had been at .5 for about a month and was holding pretty good.

 

So, one week of up dosing sent me back up to .75! That's not what I want to do!! I didn't want the CNS to get "hooked" on .75 as the "norm", because before my crazy doctor week I was at .5 for a month. Anyway, I thought maybe I could be a bit more aggressive with my last .25 dose, as I had not been on that dose very long anyway, and cut sooner. But maybe not?

 

I like what you said about not over thinking it and being on the plan and soon you will be off the Benzos! I do think about the dose you were on and all and I think , if Juliea can make it, then me with my little ( now.69 dose) can too! Compared with many BB's, my dose is small ( that's what my Doc said too) but , for ME, this truly has been the WORST health "drug" crisis, I have yet to experience. For me, this has been absolutely , terrifying, at times. I NEVER would have gotten involved in this, had I had known.

 

 

But, here we are , right?

[[Ju...]]

You know I consider what you took to get you to the doctor as a rescue dose.  You 'might', emphasis 'might' be able to taper that .25 off in .0625 cuts rather quickly.  But I would listen to my body if I decided to do this.  I remember how quickly your body got hooked on multiple doses, so I'd be careful if I were in your shoes. 

 

Yeah.    How would you like to be starting at 3mg like I did?      It was a long, arduous process.  I took Xanax for insomnia.  So I thought the only thing I would feel in tapering it off was a recurrence of insomnia.  I had zero insomnia during my taper.  That was a shocker. I slept fine that entire 9-months.  My darn symptoms were pain related.  It a body part could hurt, mine hurt.    We all seem to get hit in our weak spots during a benzo taper and everybody has different weak points.

 

You're gonna do fine.  Just be methodical.  I always updated my signature as I got to a lower dose.  That gave me confidence to keep moving forward, when I saw it in black and white.  Plus, since I had my entire taper in my signature at one point, there was no way I was going to up dose and mess up my downward progress.  I was not going backward.  You'll get there if you just keep chipping away at it .... 

 

 

[[...]]

Juliea and BB's

 

Any ideas about how I should go forward with my next cut?

 

My dose is like this .25 morning, .25 late afternoon, and now .19..or so. Was .25 now cut .625.

Next Wed will be day 8 , so I think then I'll try another cut. My question is, how much? and where?

 

Should I cut .625 on my Morning dose? or should I just keep going with my evening cut, and cut another .625 of my evening dose?

 

I've heard that maybe it's good to spread out the cuts ..I should tell you that my morning dose is always very smooth and my evening dose is also pretty smooth too ( I sleep fine, so far)..I get a weird 30 mins of agitation on my 2nd mid day dose, but it goes away.

 

I sort of don't want to mess with my Morning dose just yet ( because it's about 12 13 hours after my evening dose, and I do sleep fine) But maybe I should try it? Ot maybe cut .325? and go slower? I don't know? I was on .5 for a month, then last week or so been at this .75 etc..so, I really want to just get back to my old .5 dose (.25 2x a day) and then really cut ( maybe even .325) from there...

 

Any thoughts?

[[...]]

Juliea

 

Hi, sorry I saw that you wrote something and I had just posted anyway ( still getting used to the forum!)

 

However, I would like your take on this, if you can...

 

Thanks!

[[Ju...]]

Not .625, .0625 --- you're gonna give me a heart attack.  Please add that zero so I know you're safe. 

 

I'm not good with how people do their cuts with respect to multiple dosing.  But I'll tell you what I know.  They usually give each dose a turn to be cut.  The same dose is not cut two times in a row.  If I were doing this I would cut one of my larger doses and then my next cut would also be one of my larger doses.  Knowing me, I would be methodical about my cutting.  Each dose would get it's turn in a round robin fashion.  For example, let's say I started with cutting my first dose in the morning.  Then the next cut period I'd cut the next dose, next cut period the next and so forth till I was back to the AM dose again and I'd cut that one.  In other words, I'd never cut the same dose consecutively and if I were dosing 4X per day, each dose would be cut every 4 taper periods when it was that dose's turn to be cut.

 

So, I'd pick a dose that I felt it would be easiest to cut and cut it down by .0625mg.  That's what I'd do.

 

 

[[...]]

Ha! Sorry Juliea! Yes, .0625! That's what I mean! (Still getting used to this stuff!)

 

Yes, cutting in a round robin fashion is what I was thinking too..So, I guess my next cut of .0625, would be my morning dose..

However, as I don't seem to have a problem with sleeping ( same as you) I was thinking ,maybe, of staying with cutting ( only one more time) the night dose.. so, next week cut night again, at .0625, so I would be at .1250 at night , hold that for a week or so, and THEN try the morning cut etc..and then do round robin etc.. The nights don't seem too bad for me, yet..even before my crazy up dose week..the days are harder.

 

But, I don't want to backfire and up dose any more so, I don't know?...

 

I use a pill cutter to chop a .5 in half and then a razor blade to cut my quarter off, But sometimes it cuts too large and seems to be cut in half. Did you saw it? I think you once said you just used the drug store pill cutter. How can you get so precise? I mean, sometimes, the cuts are off,and that's the only reason I think about doing the liquid thing..but I want to hang in there with the cuts first,at least until I can get back to .5..

 

Thanks again!

[[Ju...]]

I used .25mg pills for the majority of my taper.  They were easy to quarter.  1/4 of .25mg = .0625mg.

 

I snapped the pills in half with my fingers at the score line.  Then I cut the half in half using the pill cutter.  I'd take 1/2 pill and put the tip of the pill into the V of the cutter.  Then, I'd snap it like I meant it.  If I snapped too softly I'd get a lot of powder, so when I got ready to snap the pill cutter, I snapped crisply.

 

What you'd do with .50mg pills is exactly the same except one additional step.  After the tablet is quartered, (4 pieces of .125mg), you'd take a .125mg piece and cut that in half with a razor.  That will give you the .0625mg cut.

 

Here is the cutter I used:

 

[nobbc]http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-deluxe-cut-n'-crush-pill-crusher/splitter/ID=prod6098640-product[/nobbc]    <~~~ deactivated link.  You can copy and paste the link to see the cutter.

 

Hey, I only had access to 1mg pills for a long time in my taper.  I was cutting those suckers into 1/16ths!    You can do this!! 

[[...]]

Thanks Juliea!

 

Your the best! You read my mind because I was going to ask if .0625 was really 1 quarter of a .25 pill. So, it is. Good!

I'll check out that pill cutter too thanks. I'll try it the way you suggested..That may be good. I also have 1mg Xanax too, but haven't been using them..Just my .5's.

 

I took my 2nd daily dose of .25 and had my problem again. It's a full .25 dose too ( the only one I've cut is the evening pill) and the "climb" for the 2nd (mid /late day) dose is hard. I don't know why? This time it took the whole 1 hour to get "stable"..in fact I sort of want another one right now ( almost 1 1/2 hour in)..

 

It is now day 5 since my first cut, so maybe this is the way it is supposed to feel? I don't know? But this last dose sucked! My morning .25 was smooth, but this last one hurt a bit..like 2-3 scale..but maybe it's just the way it is I guess? Maybe I should take a "Benadryl" or try one of my "Vistaril" tabs? I don't know? I do want to wait until I'm a least a full 7 or 8 days in until I "experiment" again. I don't want to go backwards again!

 

Took your advice and updated my signature too.

[[...]]

Juliea

 

Checked out the pill cutter..I think this is the one? The blue one with the cup? It doesn't look like the other ones, right?

Well, that's what the link sent me too anyway...not sold in stores they say...

 

I'll probably buy one.

 

Thanks

[[Ju...]]

That's the one.  I found mine at the drugstore.  It was either Walgreens or CVS. 

[[...]]

Hi Juliea!

 

 

Just want to ask, how do we know when to make another cut? I know waiting at least 7 -14 days is what they say. And for me day 8 of my first .0625 cut will be this Wed.

 

However, I'm still getting WDs. They are not too bad (2-3) and I used to only get them midday, now I get them in the morning too. I'm 6 days in to my first cut now. And the WD's have started 3 days ago. Dose this mean my cuts are "working"?

 

I want to ask, should one wait until all symptoms are gone from each cut and THEN proceed to the next cut?

 

Or should you just stick with it and every 8 days or so plan a cut no matter what you feel? within reason of course?

 

As I say, my WD's are not too bad, but I do have them now, and as each day passes, since my first cut, they seem to be popping up a bit more and sooner.

 

So, when to cut next?  And as you know, I used to only take .5 ( for a month) and now am at .69 or so for the past week or so, and don't want to get "hooked" on my higher dose. I feel the longer I hold , the more I'm hooked on that extra .19. So, I kind of want to push it a bit on this last .19, get rid of it and then slow down with my main .5 taper. I hate that I had to add that extra .25, now .19. However, I am getting WD's. So, what to do?

 

I want to make another cut Wed (day but is the "right" way to proceed to WAIT and hold, until any WD'S go away?.THEN make a new cut? Or do you just "stick with the plan" and cut every 8-14 days, even if you feel some WD's?

 

Any thoughts?

[[...]]

Juliea

 

 

One thing thats been bugging me, I'd like your take on...

 

I used to dose 1mg of Xanax 4 days a week..Mon, Tues, Friday, and Saturday. That was it. I did that for about 6 months. I used it as a sleep aid too and hang over "cure". Before then I really only used it when I needed to "go out" or fly on an airplane etc.And .5 was my dose. One 30 days of .5 mg of X would last me 4 months, I never got more then 3 refills a year.

 

All that changed in July 2013 until Jan 8th 2014. Then I started doubling up to 1mg and using it as a sleep aid etc, because I thought it was "safe". And for me , it was for the first 4 years. Never had a WD ever.

 

In fact , I still couldn't believe I was getting WD's from the X. But I was. I just didn't know it yet. I thought I was just going more crazy! That I should start taking Lexapro or something. ( I never did).

 

My WD's durring that last 6 month period were different then now. I would get "brain zaps" couldn't sleep really..etc.But they would come and then be gone. AND I could go a few days without taking any X. I really could. I didn't really feel like I was "addicted" you know?

 

Then I got on BB's and some told me to "spread out my doses" etc. So, I cut my dose back to .5, and was fine. Still trying to hold at 4 times a week. But some BB's told me not to..So, I then did .25 2 x a day. Now, I'm taking X EVERYDAY. I never used to. And that bothers me. Yes, it's less the dose ( but at the moment , it's up .69) However, now I'm on this crap every single day and 3 x's a day.

 

I never was before. I'm upset about this. I sort of feel like ( for me, my case) I got bad advice. Now, I am stuck here. I can't go back now. I sort of feel like I'm getting "worse'? But maybe I'm getting better and this is the price we pay.

 

All I know is, up until I got that advice ( to take it everyday) I had felt pretty "normal" and I would go days with out any X.

 

Now I get WD's every 5 hours!!! What do you think? Have I made it worse?

[[Ju...]]

I varied the time I would hold and cut.  I even held longer than 14-days a time or two and the earliest I ever cut was on day 8 after a cut was made.  I was never completely symptom free.  But there was a rhythm/pattern to my hold periods.  I did not recognize my rhythm until I had made 3-4 cuts.  By then I began to notice my pattern.  My pattern:  I'd cut one night, then about 4 to 5 days later, I'd get hit with a distinct uptick in symptoms.  Then, after a day or two the symptoms would start to settle down again.  It was only after the symptoms from the cut settled down, that I'd cut again.

 

I had about two cuts that I did not feel the uptick in symptoms.  This kind of threw me because I wasn't expecting not to get hit, as usual.  When this happened, I held longer waiting for my usual hit.  When it didn't show up by day 12-14, I figured I was home free with that cut and cut again.

 

This is something that can only be gleaned by the person tapering and like I said, it took me 3 to 4 cuts before I figured it out.

 

If your increased withdrawals started 3 days ago and you're 6 days into your cut, my guess is that your lag time for this cut may be 3 days.  This isn't good or bad, it just is how your body is processing out the Xanax, (noticing the cut).  I've known several buddies who started feeling their hit on day 3.  What I would do is wait until I felt this uptick in symptoms settle down again.  I'd then wait yet another day or two for the all clear and then I'd cut again.

 

This process teaches us to listen to our bodies better than anything I can imagine.  Headaches were one of my symptoms that I'd get when I got my hit.  If I even had a headache on a day I planned to cut, (because I got the all clear the day before), I'd wait until the next day to cut. 

 

My body showed a remarkable ability to heal during my taper.  On the days I got hit, I wanted to crawl up in a ball.  But a few days later, I was not feeling that way anymore.  I felt better.  I told a friend that it felt like a little man was hiding behind the door and would slam me with a two by four --- bam, hit.  Then a day or two later, it was over.  And I cut again and again and again and again, etc. and waited for the little man to slam me until finally the little man disappeared.  In fact he disappeared the lower I got in my taper.  I believe my experience of not having to deal with acute withdrawal after I jumped was due to always waiting until I restabilized prior to cutting again.

 

Listen to your body.  If I still had increased withdrawal symptoms, I would wait until they settle back down prior to cutting again.  This will help you in the low doses and also post taper, in my opinion. 

 

I see you've posted again.  Let me post this and I'll read what you just posted.

[[Ju...]]

I know how you feel about the way you were accustomed to dosing and then changing your dosing based upon some advice and then that dosing stuck and now, we'll you're stuck with it every day.  I would be angry too.  But so many people do suffer from interdose withdrawal and many people do advise people to change up things when they get here due to the interdose withdrawals.  I think it all boils down to the fact that since we're a peer support forum, we should always take the advice of the person giving it as their best advice based solely from their experience.  Since no two people have the exact same experience, it can be very tough on a newcomer landing here to recognize that what is good for one person may not be the greatest for another.  This is why it is very important to hone our intuitive skills during this process.

 

Whatever happened in the past is the past now and all you can do is keep moving forward.  You'll be an expert on your taper before you know it.  One day all of this will be but a distant memory.  On Feb. 2, 2013, I was at the dose you're at now.  By April 25, 2013, I was free.   

[[...]]

Wow! Great post. Thank you again , so much.

 

Yes, your WD's sound similar to mine now, it seems like it took about 3 days in, from first cut, to start. I am going to take your spot on advice and wait until, my little man with the stick goes away for a while too, before I cut! It has only been six days .

 

I started getting headaches now too. I never get them. Yes, what you say, makes such sense. Make a cut, then wait, you will feel some symptoms, but just hold until, they settle down, then maybe even hold one more day, just in case, then cut again.

 

Wash, rinse, repete!

 

I guess that's how we've got to do it , right? I like what you said about the little man behind the door! That's great. Or I call it a "beast" or "mad dog" that your slowly cutting down his food supply, but just so slow he wont notice, so he wont attack! Then as it gets smaller and smaller, he goes away!

 

The "post withdrawals" are something I do think about too. So, you think taking it slower and totally listing to your body helps there as well? It makes sense.

 

Thank you again. You've given me some piece of mind and a good idea going forward. Thanks! I guess, I'll wait until I feel ready for the next .0625 cut! But, I do hope it's this week!!

 

See you've answered another post..I'll post this then read what you wrote next!

[[...]]

Yes, I thought you would say that! What else, can be said right? This is where I am and so, I've got to live with it and go forward now. I do think the advice I got would have made sense had I had been like most people who take this stuff, they take it every day. Then I think that would have made sense..but, I never did..So, I almost feel more "drugged" now then ever before. But, I was scared, and new to all of this ( and didn't have your good advice yet!)

 

I didn't know what to think..

 

I like what you wrote about being at the same dose as me on Feb 2, and how you made it! You really give me some hope! I do think "my gosh, if Juliea can make it off YEARS and at 3mg a day!! wow! I've got nothing to worry about compared to that!!"

 

But, as you know, when it's all new to you, it's so scary..and you feel so alone. I sure pray I can kick this in 3 months! That would be beautiful!!

 

Thank you again!!

[[...]]

Hi Juliea

 

I think I may have solved the mystery as to why my midday second dose of .25 is always a difficult "climb". it would give me "agitation" and last the first 40-mins in , then calm down and be fine. I think I know why...I used the pill cutter to split my .5 in half. And would take the biggest one as my first .25 dose, then later take the other half as my mid day, then at night my cut dose .19 or so, that I did with the razor, not cutter. Anyway, sometime my cutter splits bad, and I leave dust, and even some tiny shavings on the cutting floor.

 

I would never take that. I would throw it all away. But, now that I've been cutting one of my doses, these little shavings and dust, may add up to something my body is expecting!

 

And when I don't take all of it, and in addition now intentionally cutting .0625 of a dose, it could be adding up as MORE then .0625! Maybe that's why I'm getting a bit agitated on that mid dose? Because it's not quiet .25? Even though I thought it was! Maybe that explains it!!

 

So, now two ideas..One, on my second dose, take the .25 BUT also now, eat all the dust and shavings too, Or don't change? just keep it as is (but at least I know why I feel that feeling on that one dose)

 

Maybe in the end my cuts were really 0725 or more not 0625?!)

 

I'm due for my next mid dose, and I'm going to eat all the "scraps" this time. I think! But maybe I shouldn't? Ha!

 

 

[[Ju...]]

Oh yes, Xanax is very potent.  Right down to the crumb. 

[[...]]

Juliea and BB's

 

Yep! Here to report the results of my test..It was the missing dust all right! I just had my half .5 dose (.25) like I always do but this time, I ate all the dust and tiny crumbs from the cut.

 

Smoothest "climb" yet. Fine. Stable very quick ( as you would normally expect). It worked. I think I solved the mystery!

 

I think I've got to eat all the crumbs when I cut in order to get the 'full" dose. Well, now I know!

 

Feel great.

 

One more thing I do need to test..I ate this dose on a empty stomach. I usually would eat a light meal ( if I could) and then have my late day dose, but sometimes, after eating I would feel "agitated" a bit..So, this time I didn't eat a thing.

 

It could be that the food made me "agitated" ( but it's healthy, low carb, no salt etc,light protein) so, tomorrow, I'll eat first and then take the .25 dose but eat up all the crumbs and dust again.

 

And we'll see. But so far, so good. I think I was just missing some of that pill.....

 

Crazy, how we've all got to be little Guinea pigs on our selfs, and test stuff out, but how else can one find out, right?

[[Ju...]]

Amazing! I'm so glad you figured it out. 

[[...]]

I know, right!

 

Now the question is...well, do I stay and "lick the dust" or , go back to the way it was..and just leave it?

 

Because, actually, I was getting a bigger cut then .0625 after all. And it wasn't too bad...however, I did feel "something" on that second dose...not WD's but "agitation,jumpy" It would always go away, but it took sometimes the full hour to stop.

 

I don't know?! Maybe I shouldn't eat the dust after all?...

 

We are trying to kick this junk! Now I feel like I up dosed sort of! I know I didn't really but...

 

What do you think? Ha!

 

 

[[Ju...]]

Well, the thing I would do is I'd be consistent about it.  I'd either use the powder or not use the powder.  I would not, not use it one day and then use it the next, for example.  This is the same principle behind titration.  Consistency of method is very important.

 

Another example is my pill cuts.  I always lined my pill pieces up from larger to slightly smaller.  I used the larger pieces at the beginning of the hold period and the smaller one's towards the end of the hold.  I thought I could feel the difference.  Xanax is that strong.  This also enabled me to kind of slide into my next .0625 cut.  I precut my pills for each estimated hold and put them into a medication organizer, the Sun-Sat kind.  That helped me not obsess over cutting pills each day.

[[...]]

Yes, I agree with staying consistent. Either eat the powered or don't. I just had to "test" it out today to solve the mystery. And I think thats it.

 

Yes, pre cutting and lining up from big to small is what I've been doing since I started my first cut ( a whopping six days ago!) .

That's how I found out that something was wrong, because my cuts were pretty consistent. It was the dust left over from my .25's that was messing me up. But at first I thought, maybe it was the cuts.

 

I line them up and write a circle around what's left and say, (mon, tues, etc..) So, I can check how big of a chunk compared to the next. I started with the biggest first, then, now getting smaller, slowly. Same as you, I think.

 

Now, I just have to decide, do I keep dipping the powder or not? I do feel better today.

But is it because it's finally day 6 of my cut and I'm adjusting? Or is it because, I just got a bit more of the Benzo?.....

 

Ahhh, the struggle continues...

 

 

[[...]]

I mean to say, that I pre cut my pills and start with the largest first, then slowly take the smaller..as I feel it. But I also, save the little chunk of what's left, the part I didn't take. And I write a little circle around that and list the day..I also check the size of each left over cut to remember what I took the night before..

 

Just to be clear.

 

I've got to get one of those M-Sunday pill boxes!

[[...]]

Well, I guess I have to ask...

 

Did you use the powder from your cuts? Or do you just leave it?