Daily Taper Support Group

[[mr...]]

mrtm I had to hold a month after really nasty s/x. They have cleared up now.

 

FYI my pdoc keeps me 1 prescription (90 days) ahead. I am 50 miles from her so she knows I do not want to run out. For ins'ce pursposes the bottle just reads "Take according to taper schedule" so no ins'ce issues. She trusts that I will not run home and take them all lol. The take-home lesson: DON'T RUN OUT!  Aaargh. My dread.

 

Okatz

Hi okatz,

My mom's dr doesn't like to give out any more than a month at a time and he wants to see the patient.

He is about 90 miles away.

I am going to call him and see if he will renew her script or at least give her enuf to last til the next appt.

That is nice that your dr does that for u.

I would think sometimes it might be too hard for someone to get to their dr.

 

When u held for a month, did that get rid of all sx's or just the really bad ones?

[[or...]]

mrtm my month hold plus my split dose let me get rid of 95-99% of s/x.

 

I was suffering from overwhelming nausea b/c I had no appetite (I lost 30 pounds in 6 monhts), horrid cog fog (couldn't work more than about 2 hours a day), pretty scary ear pressure and pain, and bad nerve pain. So most of those are gone. No nausea but I had to wait over 3 weeks for none. Ditto ear pain and pressure. Cog fog too. Both the split dose (I updosed, too) and the hold fixed those. I am so glad I did both things. Now I am ready to resume the descent.

 

I still have nerve pain -- I take Neurontin for it -- I had it pre-benzos but it just exploded on benzo w/d. Much better now. Tolerable. Oh, I still have tinnitus but I had that pre-benzos too. At least I think I did. I've been on this crap so long I really can't remember.

 

So if the s/x I am left with now are just some tolerable nerve pain and some tinnitus, I am good to go. I'll start tapering again on Sunday.

 

I was never a believer in holds or updosing until I had to.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Okatz

 

 

[[mr...]]

Thanks okatz.

I remember someone saying that they figured it takes a max of 21 days for a dose to stabilize, but can't remember who.

I have a friend that had very low D levels and tinnitus.

After getting her D levels into the optimum range of 60-80ng/mL, her tinnitus went away.

She is on AD's and a few times per year takes a benzo for an mri.

 

 

[[Sm...]]

mrtm my month hold plus my split dose let me get rid of 90% of s/x.

 

I was suffering from overwhelming nausea b/c I had no appetite (I lost 30 pounds in 6 monhts), horrid cog fog (couldn't work more than about 2 hours a day), pretty scary ear pressure and pain, and bad nerve pain. So most of those are gone. No nausea but I had to wait over 3 weeks for none. Ditto ear pain and pressure. Cog fog too. Both the split dose (I updosed, too) and the hold fixed those. I am so glad I did both things. Now I am ready to resume the descent.

 

I still have nerve pain -- I take Neurontin for it -- I had it pre-benzos but it just exploded on benzo w/d. Much better now. Tolerable. Oh, I still have tinnitus but I had that pre-benzos too. At least I think I did. I've been on this crap so long I really can't remember.

 

So if the s/x I am left with now are just some tolerable nerve pain and some tinnitus, I am good to go. I'll start tapering again on Sunday.

 

I was never a believer in holds or updosing until I had to.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Okatz

 

Hey OKtaz

 

I know you were worried about moving to liquid again. Can I ask if/why you are moving all your dose to the liquid equivalent? At your dose you can keep up some tablets with liquid.

 

Smiff xx

[[Sm...]]

Yea MrM: nothing for it but some more valium to get her to the appointment me thinks.

Let us know how you go

[[or...]]

Smiff: convenience, I guess. (Also I'm stupid at math). I would rather just go right to 2.6 mg of liquids than fool around with tablets and liquids. As I have to be out of the house in the pms I would rather take an all-liquid dose with me and chug it down, than fiddle with a tablet and some liquid in the car or in some bathroom somewhere.

 

And last time I went from tablet to liquid I did not updose and that was what started my trip into the weed patch I believe. I would rather updose once -- from my present 2.5 mg to 2.6 in liquids -- than do it now and later on, too. Evidently I am sensitive to crossing from tablets to liquids. My brain must have perceived it as a cut even though it wasn't.

 

Lord, I so badly want this next part of the trip down benzo lane to succeed.

 

But thank you for asking about my reasons. I hope they make sense!!!

 

Okatz

[[mr...]]

Smiff: convenience, I guess. (Also I'm stupid at math). I would rather just go right to 2.6 mg of liquids than fool around with tablets and liquids. As I have to be out of the house in the pms I would rather take an all-liquid dose with me and chug it down, than fiddle with a tablet and some liquid in the car or in some bathroom somewhere.

 

And last time I went from tablet to liquid I did not updose and that was what started my trip into the weed patch I believe. I would rather updose once -- from my present 2.5 mg to 2.6 in liquids -- than do it now and later on, too. Evidently I am sensitive to crossing from tablets to liquids. My brain must have perceived it as a cut even though it wasn't.

 

Lord, I so badly want this next part of the trip down benzo lane to succeed.

 

But thank you for asking about my reasons. I hope they make sense!!!

 

Okatz

 

Hi Okatz,

Did the idea that getting hit with sx could just be underlying ativan w/d's coming thru at a rate  they normally would when benzo free?

I don't see my mom's symptoms always correlating with cuts, so I think it is underlying ativan w/d's poking thru and would come no matter what we do.

It just seems very cyclical because every month around the middle, my mom's breathing has an improvement.

This happens whether she cuts or not.

 

[[Sm...]]

Smiff: convenience, I guess. (Also I'm stupid at math). I would rather just go right to 2.6 mg of liquids than fool around with tablets and liquids. As I have to be out of the house in the pms I would rather take an all-liquid dose with me and chug it down, than fiddle with a tablet and some liquid in the car or in some bathroom somewhere.

 

And last time I went from tablet to liquid I did not updose and that was what started my trip into the weed patch I believe. I would rather updose once -- from my present 2.5 mg to 2.6 in liquids -- than do it now and later on, too. Evidently I am sensitive to crossing from tablets to liquids. My brain must have perceived it as a cut even though it wasn't.

 

Lord, I so badly want this next part of the trip down benzo lane to succeed.

 

But thank you for asking about my reasons. I hope they make sense!!!

 

Okatz

 

Do whatever works!

I can recommend a hold when transferring to liquid too. Your body will adjust but it does have an adjustment phase because the liquid is a different beast

Good luck xx

[[mr...]]

My mom has been getting the internal shaking earlier in the day, instead of just at night.

Anyone know if this means to slow the taper or not?

 

[[Di...]]

I've been saying for a while now that you need to look at slowing her taper. She's probably gotten too low in dose to be able to tolerate those 0.01mg cuts.

[[On...]]

I sure do agree with Diaz-Pam. I would be back in the hospital with her taper rate and I know you don't want to do that again, or have to updose and go at it all over again. I would hold her dose LNG enough to get stable, let her metabolite levels reduce during that hold while her brain heals, and then restart at a reduced daily rate with holds thrown in just to clear her body tissues so his doesn't cause worse issues down the road. Wishing you the best of luck; you're in sight now and we all want to see her have a smooth landing as she approaches the runway. You've been a champ so far; go in for a final SUCCESSFUL last phase. 

[[mr...]]

I've been saying for a while now that you need to look at slowing her taper. She's probably gotten too low in dose to be able to tolerate those 0.01mg cuts.

 

Hi Diaz,

 

I'm not cutting her at .01mg anymore.

I am cutting her at .003mg per day or as close as I can get with holds.

[[mr...]]

I sure do agree with Diaz-Pam. I would be back in the hospital with her taper rate and I know you don't want to do that again, or have to updose and go at it all over again. I would hold her dose LNG enough to get stable, let her metabolite levels reduce during that hold while her brain heals, and then restart at a reduced daily rate with holds thrown in just to clear her body tissues so his doesn't cause worse issues down the road. Wishing you the best of luck; you're in sight now and we all want to see her have a smooth landing as she approaches the runway. You've been a champ so far; go in for a final SUCCESSFUL last phase. 

 

Hi One,

Boy did I miss you!

How in the world are u doing?

My mom's symptoms come and go whether I cut or not.

Holds don't make a huge difference.

She has had some good improvements every month with the breathing issue.

Every month around the same time, her breathing improves dramatically, then does a little step backwards and settles somewhere better than her worst the prior month.

This shows that it will eventually resolve and that is a huge relief!

 

I hope things are going really well for u.

[[al...]]

Hey guys! Well I got down to 0.125mg of clonazepam . But from 0.25mg to 0.125mg was very intense. This is the second time I have attempted it and not stabilized. I seem to get stuck at 0.25mg. I was able to do 1/4 pll cuts my entire taper until 0.25mg (which is half a pill). However it happened the same way at the end of my zopiclone taper. I seem to have a very hard time with the end of the taper.

 

Now my benzo w/d specialist doctor told me that this happens in a minority of people, rough endings. So he suggested I updose back to 0.25mg like I did the last time, as it had been 3 weeks and I am not stable and trying to remain in school so I can't just wait it out like I would normally. So he wants me to stabilize and start titrating the rest. Because I need to remain functional during school.

 

He said to put my 0.25 tablet in water or milk and let it dissolve (do this once a day as I take it once a day) and then take a little bit out (reduce) every day or every other day or whenever I want depending on my ssymptoms. he said they would guide me as to how fast I would go or what my cuts would be. SO I am trying t0 find a starting point.

 

think starting with 100ml is easy because it is easy to measure. So I would put my dose in 100ml and then remove 1ml the first day and drink the rest. This would be an initial reduction of 0.0025. Dose this sound like a good place to start?. Then the next day if it goes well I would remix a silution of 100ml and take out 2ml and drink the rest...etc... If I reduced every day then it would be roughly 100 days to complete it. This is fine with me. 

 

I have  a few questions

 

1. what is better milk, or water....I know some of you use vodka to dissolve the pill in water right?

2. I need to hold and titrate the full amount for a week or two and then start reductions right?

 

3. Did this make a reduction in symptoms flares for you guys or has anyone had difficulties with this?...as I tried something like it when I was at the end of zopiclone but I don't think I was titrating properly and it went quite badly. I tried to do a quarter of a pill which is what I was down to.....and 1/4 of a pill (down from two pills) was usually my cut every three weeks  and I wanted to  daily titrate it  over thirty days instead of cut at once.. It caused the worse flare in symptoms and I gave up after 10 days of being bed bound.

 

 

I need to stabilize first, but any tips or help that is not too complicated as I am quite bad with math would be really great! So ahppy you guys have started this thread...........so nice to know this support is here! Thanks again in advance, bama.xo

[[So...]]

Hey Alabama,

 

I think a daily taper would be great for you!!

 

I am not sure, but I think that Klonopin dissolves in milk. But, you might want to post your question on the tapering board.

 

I do use a tiny amount of Vodka, because Ativan will not dissolve in water. It has had no bad effects on me.

 

Also, SG57 is great with the math stuff and helping to guide you through a liquid taper. He sure saved me!!

 

Good luck!! I wish a smooth daily taper!!

 

Hugs,

 

Nana 

[[Ks...]]

Another member said to use everclear to dissolve because it has a higher alcohol proof but I cannot get that. Bacardi has the next highest alcohol proof. Would this be ok?

[[mr...]]

Another member said to use everclear to dissolve because it has a higher alcohol proof but I cannot get that. Bacardi has the next highest alcohol proof. Would this be ok?

When they stopped selling everclear, here, I had found a russian named product that was 190 proof, but I don't remember the name.

You could call a large liquor store and ask if they have anything that high.

[[Ks...]]

Bacardi is 151, that should be ok no?

 

They don't sell everclear because of the high proof, it is a statewide thing apparently

[[bu...]]

Another member said to use everclear to dissolve because it has a higher alcohol proof but I cannot get that. Bacardi has the next highest alcohol proof. Would this be ok?

 

Alcohol will dissolve large quantities of diazepam.  So you really don't need to worry about finding a high proof liquor.  Here is some data I have posted previiously:

 

"1 ml of 95% pure alcohol will dissolve 41 mg of diazepam.  So 1 ml 80 proof vodka (40% alcohol) will dissolve almost 20 mg of diazepam.  Or restated, .1 ml of vodka would dissolve 2 mg diazepam.

 

So of you used 1 ml vodka for 2 mg diazepam, you have huge safety margin (10X)!"

[[Ks...]]

Ok, I think I saw something like that before, maybe it was your post. It applies to lorazepam too I assume?

[[bu...]]

Ok, I think I saw something like that before, maybe it was your post. It applies to lorazepam too I assume?

 

Lorazepam has poor solubility in alcohol.

[[Ks...]]

Really? That's not what I was told from others...

[[So...]]

I use Smirnoff 80 proof Vodka to dissolve my Ativan/lorazepam pills. I use 2 ml to dissolve four .50 pills for my daily titration. It takes less than 30 seconds, and they are completely dissolved. Have had no trouble with this method.

 

Nana 

[[Ju...]]

http://lib.njutcm.edu.cn/yaodian/ep/EP5.0/16_monographs/monographs_l-p/Lorazepam.pdf

 

"A white or almost white, crystalline powder, practically

insoluble in water, sparingly soluble in alcohol, sparingly

soluble or slightly soluble in methylene chloride."

[[Ks...]]

Thanks again Nana, I take it you're not having problems?

 

Juliea that was not helpful...Sparingly doesn't tell me anything