Daily Taper Support Group

[[So...]]

Great!! Thanks.

 

So are doing really well with it? What strength is it? Do they have different strengths, or do you have to dilute it eventually?

 

Sorry for the 20 questions. 

 

I just think it would be easier than what I am doing. But, don't know if my Dr would prescribe it.

 

Nana 

[[le...]]

 

Nana,

To answer your questions & KS1994's PM, I'm pasting this from another post.

 

I'm using the liquid form of Lorazepam Intensol, mfg by Roxane Labs, and a micropipettor. It's concentrated to 2 mg per ml, and comes in a 30 ml bottle, and has to be refrigerated. It is suspended in propylene glycol (PG).  I dilute it down to 1 mg per ml so my benzo brain doesn't accidentally mess up the math.

 

I take a 60 ml amber glass bottle, pour in the liquid Lorazepam, then add 30 ml of PG to that. I really like the ease of this, and the fact that there's no waste. Just measure out the dose, squirt it into a little water and drink it down.  As I'm on 3 mg per day, it is refilled every 20 days. (The PG, amber glass bottle and pipettor are all at Amazon.)

 

Due to IDW, I spread dose to 4 X a day, still got IDW so then went to 5 times a day. Now back down to 4X because my body took the 5X a day dosing like a cut. I've been having IDW for the last 4-5 years, so I guess I'm just stuck with them. 

 

KS1994,

I do think you would be better off if you spread out your dose. Although i do still have IDW, dosing 4 X a day has helped. The short half life of Lorazepam causes so many problems with IDW. You just have to find the right dosing schedule for you.

 

Nana,

Having been on this drug for more than 25 years, I should probably have eased over from pills to liquid, but I didn't. I had "shaky insides" for 1/2 a day, and that was it. I haven't had any problems with it at all.

 

I hope this helps,

Lea

[[Ks...]]

How did you start to spread doses? Did you get withdrawal symptoms doing this?

[[le...]]

How did you start to spread doses? Did you get withdrawal symptoms doing this?

 

KS,

 

i was originally taking it 3 times a day, so I spread it to 4 x a day. (See above post regarding my experience with 4 & 5 X a day dosing.)

 

If i were in your shoes, i would spread my dose lickety split.  If you went to 3 doses, then 2mg would be .666 mg each dose.  if you went to 4 doses, it would be .5 mg each dose. I think I would go to .666 3 X a day and see how i felt. 

[[Ks...]]

Well the problem is I have to dry cut and I already started reducing my dose...I don't want to backtrack now...it's taken three weeks to get down 0.05mg...I am trying to see if I can switch to Valium maybe...but I can't just halve my dose one day...I don't know...I see psych tomorrow...

[[Ks...]]

Sorry if I missed the answer but do you get withdrawal symptoms when switching from pill to liquid?

[[So...]]

I did get some very minor w/d. But, that was it.

 

Nana 

[[co...]]

Good idea. So, just the Bioprene, without the Curcumine, will help. I may wait on the Curcumine for now.

 

Hi, I think having  daily taper thread is a good idea. Can you tell me more about what BIoprene and Curcumine do? and how they help the taper? I am familiar with many supplements however those are new to me? Thanks, Concerned

[[So...]]

I haven't tried those yet. I know that Smiff has been using them and has a thread about it in Alternative Therapies.

 

Nana 

[[co...]]

Thanks, i will check that section out, Concerned

[[mr...]]

My mom was showing improvements and then, she gets slammed with an electrical jolt headache on one side of her head that moves for 6 days.

Then she is fine for a day.

Now, she is getting panic attacks more often than just one per night.

Does this mean I need to hold her dose for a while or is just the normal course of w/d?

 

 

[[Ks...]]

I think the standard is hold until stable, or as close to it as you can...otherwise symptoms get worse...

[[Di...]]

My mom was showing improvements and then, she gets slammed with an electrical jolt headache on one side of her head that moves for 6 days.

Then she is fine for a day.

Now, she is getting panic attacks more often than just one per night.

Does this mean I need to hold her dose for a while or is just the normal course of w/d?

 

 

 

You said recently that you were sticking to 0.01mg daily cuts because you didn't want to bother with dilution. I know I replied to you when you made that comment, but I'm not sure if you saw it. If I am to be completely blunt, diluting might make your life slightly more complicated, but I think it will make her life easier.

 

Making a diluted solution is definitely not hard. It only takes a few minutes to do, and now that her dose it well under 1mg, I think making much smaller daily cuts could help. IMO, it's much better to try to address the problems before they arise, rather than waiting for them to arise, and then having to hold.

 

If you want the method I use, it's below in my signature.

[[le...]]

I think if it were me, I would hold for a while to see if things got better. To my way of thinking, holds are also a normal part of all of this. (Whatever "normal" is in this whole, strange process, anyway.) 

Lea

[[mr...]]

I think the standard is hold until stable, or as close to it as you can...otherwise symptoms get worse...

Hi ks,

I have been holding for a day when symptoms rise and then continue cutting.

I think I'm holding enuf, but I don't think her prescription is going to last til her next appt.

What is a normal hold length of time?

[[mr...]]

My mom was showing improvements and then, she gets slammed with an electrical jolt headache on one side of her head that moves for 6 days.

Then she is fine for a day.

Now, she is getting panic attacks more often than just one per night.

Does this mean I need to hold her dose for a while or is just the normal course of w/d?

 

 

 

You said recently that you were sticking to 0.01mg daily cuts because you didn't want to bother with dilution. I know I replied to you when you made that comment, but I'm not sure if you saw it. If I am to be completely blunt, diluting might make your life slightly more complicated, but I think it will make her life easier.

 

Making a diluted solution is definitely not hard. It only takes a few minutes to do, and now that her dose it well under 1mg, I think making much smaller daily cuts could help. IMO, it's much better to try to address the problems before they arise, rather than waiting for them to arise, and then having to hold.

 

If you want the method I use, it's below in my signature.

 

Hi diaz,

Yes, I have considered the titration, but I am just way too lazy to go thru all that.

It would be ideal to find just the exact cut rate and adjust as I go lower.

If she had to be functional, I would do that, but as long as the symptoms are not too debilitating, I will stick with the .01 and holding.

Thanks anyway.

 

[[Sm...]]

MrM

 

You hold till she is feeling better: no more panic attacks.

 

It seems clear she does need a cut reduction. You've suspected this yourself for sometime. A panic attack a day is really rough.

You can reduce the cut rate without dilution if you get a micropippette

 

1ml = 1000ul so you can get very small increments

 

You can buy them on amazon, ebay, maybe a compound pharmacist or this place:

http://www.sciencestuff.com/ctgy/L-PipeVV

[[mr...]]

MrM

 

You hold till she is feeling better: no more panic attacks.

 

It seems clear she does need a cut reduction. You've suspected this yourself for sometime. A panic attack a day is really rough.

You can reduce the cut rate without dilution if you get a micropippette

 

1ml = 1000ul so you can get very small increments

 

You can buy them on amazon, ebay, maybe a compound pharmacist or this place:

http://www.sciencestuff.com/ctgy/L-PipeVV

Thanks smiff,

I will check our science store.

 

[[Sm...]]

I'm glad.

Let me know if you get one and how it goes. I've never used one myself.

Ashton says the biggest determining factor with severity and longevity of benzo w/d is age. At your mum's age her brain is really really not plastic and just sadly isn't very good at up-regulating and compensating. You've done so well to get her this far. The last bit doesn't have to be horrendous and benzo w/d is nothing if not horrendous, hell, terror, freak show.

Good luck

[[Di...]]

My mom was showing improvements and then, she gets slammed with an electrical jolt headache on one side of her head that moves for 6 days.

Then she is fine for a day.

Now, she is getting panic attacks more often than just one per night.

Does this mean I need to hold her dose for a while or is just the normal course of w/d?

 

 

 

You said recently that you were sticking to 0.01mg daily cuts because you didn't want to bother with dilution. I know I replied to you when you made that comment, but I'm not sure if you saw it. If I am to be completely blunt, diluting might make your life slightly more complicated, but I think it will make her life easier.

 

Making a diluted solution is definitely not hard. It only takes a few minutes to do, and now that her dose it well under 1mg, I think making much smaller daily cuts could help. IMO, it's much better to try to address the problems before they arise, rather than waiting for them to arise, and then having to hold.

 

If you want the method I use, it's below in my signature.

 

Hi diaz,

Yes, I have considered the titration, but I am just way too lazy to go thru all that.

It would be ideal to find just the exact cut rate and adjust as I go lower.

If she had to be functional, I would do that, but as long as the symptoms are not too debilitating, I will stick with the .01 and holding.

Thanks anyway.

 

 

Sorry, I'm going to be really blunt again, but I honestly think that "laziness" isn't really a good excuse. It would be different if you were tapering yourself. You would get to make decisions that only affected you, but you are doing this for your mother, who is aged and who has already been through a lot. It's not so much about her being "functional". It's about making things as easy as possible for her. We would all love to find an exact cut rate, but unfortunately even when/if you find it, it can be fleeting.

 

There's really nothing to "go through" with a dilution method. It's just something that literally takes a couple of minutes, but if it's really a big deal for you, Smiff's idea is a good one. I think the time has definitely come where you need to look into doing smaller daily cuts.

[[mr...]]

This the 3rd day at the same dose and my mom is still having alot of panicky issues and breathing issues.

She also, lost her appetite and isn't sleeping very well.

Not sure if holding another day would help or not.

 

 

[[Di...]]

Three days it too soon to tell. Sometimes you just need to hold as long as it takes. Don't rush her - on any level.

[[mr...]]

Three days it too soon to tell. Sometimes you just need to hold as long as it takes. Don't rush her - on any level.

She doesn't have enuf valium to last til her next dr appt, so I wanted to make it stretch.

How long does it normally take to get back to stable?

 

[[Di...]]

That's really going to depend on her symptoms. I've held for just a couple of days and seen improvements. On the other hand I circled 1mg for 2 months.

 

Are you able to phone the doctor to see if he/she can just send through a prescription to the pharmacist? I don't normally see my doctor that often. I just call into her office and leave a message with the receptionist and then I pick up the prescription the next day.

[[or...]]

mrtm I had to hold a month after really nasty s/x. They have cleared up now.

 

FYI my pdoc keeps me 1 prescription (90 days) ahead. I am 50 miles from her so she knows I do not want to run out. For ins'ce pursposes the bottle just reads "Take according to taper schedule" so no ins'ce issues. She trusts that I will not run home and take them all lol. The take-home lesson: DON'T RUN OUT!  Aaargh. My dread.

 

Okatz